What amp shall I buy?

[killerkowalczyk]

Well I thought I would come on here and ask you guys another question.

I am probably about to buy a new power amp or monoblocks and I just wanted some input.

The power amp that I am looking at is a Mark Levinson No. 332 dual mono power amp with 200wpc into 8ohms

OR

The Bryston 7B ST monobolcks that pump 500wpc into 8ohms for slightly more cost.

[matthewkolson]

http://www.briangt.com/gallery/albums/aleph-mattyo/P1010439.sized.jpg


Come to DAYTON or DC to the diy's and hear my Nelson Pass Aleph 2 monoblocks :)

100 wpc into 8 and 160+ into 4 FULL CLASS A

:)

-Matthew K. Olson

[thylantyr]

I would pick the amp with the most power
output. 500W @ 8 ohms is nice. 200w or less
@ 8 ohms is boring.

[killerkowalczyk]

Wish i could go, im pretty sure that the Levinson is 200wpc class A into 8ohms b/c i know for sure that the No.331 is 100 class A into 8ohms

Im pretty sure that the Bryston 7Bs arent class A

I really want class A but 500wpc sound pretty good for designs that might be really inefficient.

what would you pick out of the two

BTW if i bought the 7B's the would have seperate small hardwood stands off to both sides of my audio rack

[killerkowalczyk]

> I would pick the amp with the most power
> output. 500W @ 8 ohms is nice. 200w or less
> @ 8 ohms is boring.

Im pretty sure is 200wpc of class A, usually that means it can do more but then switches to A/B amplification, could probably do 300wpc or so.

but

if the 7B's were powering a 4ohm load i think there rated for 700wpc which would be totally insane.

[severius]

The mids will be much more "fleshed out"; richer tone color all around.

The Bryston's very, very nice, but much cooler presentation.

[georgem]

> Well I thought I would come on here and ask
> you guys another question.

> I am probably about to buy a new power amp
> or monoblocks and I just wanted some input.

> The power amp that I am looking at is a Mark
> Levinson No. 332 dual mono power amp with
> 200wpc into 8ohms

> OR

> The Bryston 7B ST monobolcks that pump
> 500wpc into 8ohms for slightly more cost.

Take your pick, your in pretty high-end territory there and I'm sure they both sound fine. The Levinson should heve plenty of power for almost any application and seem to tolerate most any load. They aren't true Class-A in the traditional sense though they seem to consume more power at idle than normal class A/B designs.

I've listened to the Brystons and can't think of a reason not to buy them. Tons of power for pretty much any application. They probably aren't stable down to 2ohms like the Levinson but under most conditions that shouldn't really be a problem. Add in the 20yr waurantee and I can't see a reason I wouldn't get them. O yeah, there's the matter of getting my wife to agree. . . . oh well :-)

[killerkowalczyk]

I have no wife, only a girlfriend that cringes every time I spend money on new audio equipment.

[Paul O]

> I have no wife, only a girlfriend that
> cringes every time I spend money on new
> audio equipment.

At this power level, you SHOULD be looking at pro audio amps. I traded my Bryston 4B for a Yamaha P3500s. Both are class AB...No audible sound quality difference to me.. but everybody's ears are different. The Yamaha has more power for half the price.. and if you're worried about fan noise.. forgetaboutit. I have run this amp at just under clipping levels on dual 15 subs(4ohm load) for 4 hours straight, and it never got hot enough to turn the fans on!!! These things run cool.

[diru]

> Well I thought I would come on here and ask
> you guys another question.

> I am probably about to buy a new power amp
> or monoblocks and I just wanted some input.

> The power amp that I am looking at is a Mark
> Levinson No. 332 dual mono power amp with
> 200wpc into 8ohms

> OR

> The Bryston 7B ST monobolcks that pump
> 500wpc into 8ohms for slightly more cost.

<A HREF="http://www.marklevinson.com/downloads/manuals/no332.pdf">http://www.marklevinson.com/downloads/manuals/no332.pdf</A>

<A HREF="http://www.bryston.ca/pdfs/7bsst_spec.pdf">http://www.bryston.ca/pdfs/7bsst_spec.pdf</A>

Well getting to the nutz and bolts of it all. Just by spec the Levinson is the one to go with.

It has a higher damping factor and lower output impedence. Is Class A all the way. The Bryston starts out in Class A at lower power levels then goes to Class AB.

Brytson is good stuff for the money , but if you are getting a 332 Lenivson for cheaper, you would be a fool not to get it.

Most any speaker system thats worth its own, at 200/ch@8ohms will blow dry your hair nicely.

I like my Aragon, but if I had a choice in all three types we'll say. Levinson for sure.

The 332 will reveal weak chains in your audio system, it is that good.

Good luck happy listening

[severius]

Is it rated under FCC accepted RMS guidelines: ie., pre-conditioning, power rated across the audible spectrum, 20hz - 20Khz, both channels driven(except for monoblocks, obviously), with a specific distortion rating, as in:

200 watts, 10hz to 20,000 Hz, at no more than .01% THD

Or, the way the pro jobs do it:

500000 watts at 1khz, 1.0% THD, for 50 milliseconds prior to total clipping.

That 500000 pro watts shrinks down pretty quickly under more stingent FCC RMS measurements.

[Paul O]

Frankly.. when it comes down to it, I don't care how an amp is rated. I did a head to head double blind test with the Bryston and the Yamaha and I liked how the Yamaha sounded better.

Always listen before you buy.. I broke this rule when I bought the Bryston.. on reputation alone.

[thylantyr]

> I really want class A but 500wpc sound
> pretty good for designs that might be really
> inefficient.

I use high powered amps with high sensitivity
loudspeakers, to me that is a great recipe
to replicate live performance. Bridged amplifiers
are great for this, not which amplifier class
is used provided the amplifier is well designed.

[thylantyr]

>>500000 watts at 1khz, 1.0% THD,

Pass Labs rates their amps the same way,
1khz, 1% THD .. must be a bad amplifier they
make .. /// lol ///

[severius]

It's foolish to claim that one amplifier is more powerful that another, when it may indeed be LESS powerful.

If you're chosing on the basis of power, than you MUST compare like measurements to like measurements.

Otherwise, you're a FOOL who's just been sold a lot of hot air, as in

"Sure, buddy - Why this amp has 10 million watts. You betcha".

[severius]

My post was specifically about power comparisons. You have to be an idiot to be willingly fooled.

If you're making judgements solely on power alone, you must compare like measurements. Comparing at 1Khz measurement to a full spectrum measurement, and then confidently proclaiming the former as more powerful is to be willingly sold a bill of goods.

Hey - I've got a bridge for sale. Really.

[wg_ski]

> Is it rated under FCC accepted RMS
> guidelines: ie., pre-conditioning, power
> rated across the audible spectrum, 20hz -
> 20Khz, both channels driven(except for
> monoblocks, obviously), with a specific
> distortion rating, as in:

> 200 watts, 10hz to 20,000 Hz, at no more
> than .01% THD

> Or, the way the pro jobs do it:

> 500000 watts at 1khz, 1.0% THD, for 50
> milliseconds prior to total clipping.

> That 500000 pro watts shrinks down pretty
> quickly under more stingent FCC RMS
> measurements.

It's "FTC" requirements. And it's not *quite* that bad. A "200 watt per channel" audiophile-grade amplifier and a "1200 watt" pro amp (that is 280 wpc/1KHz/8 ohm, 600 wpc/1Khz/ 2 ohm) both put out the same real world power, sound very similar unless the pro amp is current-limiting, and both operate off the same 55-0-55V, 600 VA transformer. Except for the very bottom of the barrel, pro amps will pass the FTC burn-in requirement at 8 ohms per channel (the better grades will do it at 4 ohms, and some of the stupid-expensive stuff will pass at 2 ohms). Most any audiphile amp worth it's stuffing will pass the FTC burn-in at 8 ohms, but you would be hard-pressed to find any audiophile amp that will pass the FTC burn-in at 2 ohms (at ANY price).

[severius]

And, yes, I've heard Pass amps and I like the sound.

But, as I said, I was speaking of making meaningful, like to like numbers comparisons.

The fact that Pass chooses to print a 1khz spec doesn't say anything about it's sound; only that it'll be difficult to compare it's power rating to another amp differently rated.

Obviously, pure class A amps aren't going to be as powerful as class AB, and certainly as class B, D, etc. So, it's distressing that Pass is choosing to spec in this manner- but, obviously folks aren't looking that closely the the numbers these days.

Finally, I have no wish to get into a war on this issue with you - or anyone. I just think that it's common sence to compare apples to apples.

[bill]

...I'd go with the Brystons. Not to knock the Mark Levinsons, but I've *never* heard of an unhappy Bryston owner. Come to think of it, in 17 years running the maintenance shop here, I don't recall an instance of a failure on one. Even in heavy pro use they're unkillable. And the SQ is up there with anything else on the market, at any price (sorry, Matt.)

Just my .02.

Bill

> Wish i could go, im pretty sure that the
> Levinson is 200wpc class A into 8ohms b/c i
> know for sure that the No.331 is 100 class A
> into 8ohms

> Im pretty sure that the Bryston 7Bs arent
> class A

> I really want class A but 500wpc sound
> pretty good for designs that might be really
> inefficient.

> what would you pick out of the two

> BTW if i bought the 7B's the would have
> seperate small hardwood stands off to both
> sides of my audio rack

[bill]

The FCC could care less about audio equipment, as long as it doesn't radiate RF.

The Brystons are even more conservatively rated than the FTC requirements. They will maintain rated power indefinitely without complaint. They will also take abuse no consumer amp could tolerate.

The 7B is rated 600 watts into 8 ohms and 900 watts into 4 ohms. If you regularly need to drive loads under 3 ohms, you can order a special version of the amp that is designed for that.

I think the 20-year warranty says it all.

And I don't know where you get your concept of "pro job" power ratings; reputable first-tier pro amp manufacturers, like QSC, Crown and Bryston all rate conservatively; their users won't put up with that nonsense.

Best regards,
Bill

> Is it rated under FCC accepted RMS
> guidelines: ie., pre-conditioning, power
> rated across the audible spectrum, 20hz -
> 20Khz, both channels driven(except for
> monoblocks, obviously), with a specific
> distortion rating, as in:

> 200 watts, 10hz to 20,000 Hz, at no more
> than .01% THD

> Or, the way the pro jobs do it:

> 500000 watts at 1khz, 1.0% THD, for 50
> milliseconds prior to total clipping.

> That 500000 pro watts shrinks down pretty
> quickly under more stingent FCC RMS
> measurements.

[unknownuser]

Dont forget about a good Cinepro amp. These things are awesome......dollar for dollar....they can hang with anything out there.


(Originally posted by: richard)

[severius]

Boy, one little letter...

My point was that you need to compare apples to apples.

[unknownuser]

Killer, will this amp be getting its own pair of Symposium Rollerblocks?

As I recall your system is composed of the following:

"My system is comprised of a pair of DIII's on a pair of DIY stands, Toshiba DVD/CD/MP3 player, AMC 3150a (solid state 150wpc integrated) amp, and a Panamax 5300 power conditioner all on a DIY built audio rack. "

Do you really love the DIII's that much? I have a pair and I like them. Wouldn't a speaker upgrade be in your future instead of amp$?

Why not both I suppose. Differnt strokes.




(Originally posted by: devils advocate)

[killerkowalczyk]

> Killer, will this amp be getting its own
> pair of Symposium Rollerblocks?

> As I recall your system is composed of the
> following:

> "My system is comprised of a pair of
> DIII's on a pair of DIY stands, Toshiba
> DVD/CD/MP3 player, AMC 3150a (solid state
> 150wpc integrated) amp, and a Panamax 5300
> power conditioner all on a DIY built audio
> rack. "

> Do you really love the DIII's that much? I
> have a pair and I like them. Wouldn't a
> speaker upgrade be in your future instead of
> amp$?

> Why not both I suppose. Differnt strokes.

I am currently designing my next pair of speakers, they should be built before x-mas.

They will be comprised of 2- 8" aurum cantus woofers, 1- 6.5" aurum cantus for mids and possibly the aurum cantus G2 ribbon tweeter per side.

If you havent noticed those 8" woofers have massive power handling so i want an amp thats able to drive them to the max (i like to listen to very very loud music)

Eventually they will recieve rollerblocks >;-)

[Paul O]

>(i like to listen to very very loud music)

Skip all this nonsense then and build a fully horn loaded system and a 10w class A tube amp. It's what you really want, and will probabaly end up with 10 yrs and $100,000 down the road anyway.

[wg_ski]

> Skip all this nonsense then and build a
> fully horn loaded system and a 10w class A
> tube amp. It's what you really want, and
> will probabaly end up with 10 yrs and
> $100,000 down the road anyway.

No, no, no.... what he want's is a fully horn loaded system driven by a rack full of Brystons. Then we can talk about "very very loud music".

[killerkowalczyk]

Horns dont sound too great other than the 40hz punch they provide, I already have a pair running on a maranatz 2235b

thanks for the suggestion tho.

[Paul O]

> Horns dont sound too great other than the
> 40hz punch they provide,

I'll call it the way I see it..I think your quest is more about status than sound.

[killerkowalczyk]

How am I looking for status? And what status for that matter? Because I'm soooooo poor I have to build my own loudspeakers? Or is it because there was a posibility that I could have gotten a good deal those amps I mentioned? Is it because I am a struggling college student trying to make ends meet while trying to enjoy the audio hobby at the same time.

If you call things the way you see them, then you must be blind! Or something else ;)

[Paul O]

But.. believe it or not, most, if not all of the people on here have each others best interests in mind, me included. We all enjoy music and DIY projects, and some of us have made a few more laps around the Sun than others.. been there.. done that. So there's lots of knowledge and experience floating around and you can choose to believe what people write, or not. I know I tend to take what people say with a grain of salt, and go and try to experience it for myself... because one man's treasure is another man's trash. So I can't blame you for wanting to experience a Bryston or Mark Levinson. I did. And you know what? I really enjoyed it. 10 years ago these were outstanding pieces of equipment. Bryston was a standard for hi end studio, live and recorded sound. But times have changed, technology has advanced, you don't need to buy this legend to meet and exceed it's performance. If you still want to then by all means, but I would think a college student would want to get the max bang for his buck. If you can get one of these great amps used for less than the price of a new Yamaha P3500s or a QSC PLX1602 then you found a spanking deal. But you will have a hard time picking any of these in a double blind test.

[killerkowalczyk]

I really didnt even care about them being Brystons, their reputation is just a bonus.

I need the high WPC and i might be able to get a good deal on them ($1000 only 5 years old, good condition) which is kinda hard to pass up even if I can find something else with the same power. Plus the 20 year warranty means alot to me aswell.

[killerkowalczyk]

wanna build me some 250 wpc class into 8 ohms?

[matthewkolson]

> wanna build me some 250 wpc class into 8
> ohms?

250 watts of class A burns 750 watts of heat continuously. i don't know how to get rid of that much heat, let alone know of a manufactured 2kva transformers that you'd need to do such a project. 250 watts AB is not a problem, but i'm not cheap. :) plus, it took me 1.5 years to do those aleph's. just fyi

if you are still interested let me know and we can talk

-Matthew K. Olson

[bobleeqsc]

Can you cite some examples? ;^)

[bogie]

> class B, D, etc. So, it's distressing that
> Pass is choosing to spec in this manner-
> but, obviously folks aren't looking that
> closely the the numbers these days.

I don't think that Nelson cares. He has to put some sorta spec out. So he does. Kinda like how Ruger does its warranty system - "We offer no warranty" but they fix what you send 'em, and stand behind their product without an army of lawyers.