Veneering question

[uglogirl]

Provided Link: Making cheesy junk into mid fi for mere pennies! (http://www.2tough.com/~kiira/audio-diy.html)


Hi hi,

I am already starting another project. :-)

I have some horrible old Bose speakers my best friend gave me, his wife made him. They are Bose with the cheesiest drivers - a ten inch and a transister radio tweeter. Anyway though they are the perfect volume for a pair of Apexjr Super8 woofers. I was wondering if wood veneer can be applied right over that thin plasicky fake wood grain stuff they cover cheesy speakers in? I mean, it's done with contact cement which has no problem with plastic. I have some beautiful wide veneer a bought for just $10.

thanks!

Kiira

[bking]

Is the new veneer paper-backed or au natural? If it's paper-backed, use water based contact cement. If it's plain unbacked wood veneer, you could use the slow setting flavor of yellow carpenter's glue.

As for surface prep, the best thing to do is remove the old woodgrain. That would let you use either gluing method. It's also the most work. If you don't want to go that route, then first clean the cabinet with mineral spirits to remove any wax or dirt. Then sand lightly with 220 grit sandpaper to give the surface some "tooth" so the new veneer will adhere well. Now comes the tricky part. Unbacked veneer doesn't like contact cement all that much, and yellow wood glue doesn't stick well to the vinyl. So your best option is to use contact cement and paper-backed stuff. If all you have is unbacked veneer, then I think you almost have to remove the old vinyl if you expect a good bond.

[dancarroll]

I realize you already have veneer, but if it is not paperbacked such that you are going to have to remove the old vinyl, which could be a pain in an unpleasant area, another alternative if the vinyl B*se used has no grain is just to clean it up and put more vinyl over it. PE's vinyl is very nice. I am partial to the cherry, but the beech (or birch, I forget!) is nice too. I actually love the look of the black ash, but find it hard to work with -- even using a very sharp blade it is hard to get edge cuts done smoothly.

Good luck, whatever you do.

[shawn_a]

I've used the good explosive contact cement with raw veneer with very good results. What I found made the biggest difference is relative humidity when working with the raw stuff. I was forced to do the front baffle as one piece and then create a seam on the sides about 2 inches from the front. I let things settle and cure for a couple of days while I waited for a non-humid day which almost impossible during an Indiana summer. The results were pretty darn good for being my first veneering job. The seams aren't invisible but they are good enough.

Now going over the vinyl, I would be really hesitant with any method. Take a heat gun to it and see if it can't be peeled off. I would be really leery of applying a solvent based anything on a thin plastic substrate. I would think that vinyl would bubble up and really cause some big problems.

shawn

[Dirk]

> Hi hi,

> I am already starting another project. :-)

> I have some horrible old Bose speakers my
> best friend gave me, his wife made him. They
> are Bose with the cheesiest drivers - a ten
> inch and a transister radio tweeter. Anyway
> though they are the perfect volume for a
> pair of Apexjr Super8 woofers. I was
> wondering if wood veneer can be applied
> right over that thin plasicky fake wood
> grain stuff they cover cheesy speakers in? I
> mean, it's done with contact cement which
> has no problem with plastic. I have some
> beautiful wide veneer a bought for just $10.

> thanks!

> Kiira

Sounds like an interesting idea. However (and this may be the pessimist in me), I'd take care of the electronics first and then see if, well, you were putting lipstick on a pig or not. $10 for a nice veneer is definitely a score. But if the project itself doesn't live up to the woodworking, it'll get tossed in a corner unused and never be apprciated for the visual aspect of the project. :-D

Then again, the other side of the coin says $10 for veneer is a really good price if all your looking for is good practice.

[Dirk]

Are you planning on using these boxes just as subs?

> Hi hi,

> I am already starting another project. :-)

> I have some horrible old Bose speakers my
> best friend gave me, his wife made him. They
> are Bose with the cheesiest drivers - a ten
> inch and a transister radio tweeter. Anyway
> though they are the perfect volume for a
> pair of Apexjr Super8 woofers. I was
> wondering if wood veneer can be applied
> right over that thin plasicky fake wood
> grain stuff they cover cheesy speakers in? I
> mean, it's done with contact cement which
> has no problem with plastic. I have some
> beautiful wide veneer a bought for just $10.

> thanks!

> Kiira

[bking]

Solvent-based contact cement CAN be used to apply unbacked veneer, but it's not the preferred way. Urea or "cold press" glues and a veneer press is the best way to do it. Obviously that process isn't practical in this instance. The alternative here, solvent-based contact cement, could cause some delamination of the vinyl that's already on the cabinet. The best adhesive for an application over vinyl is water-based contact cement, but then the unbacked wood wants to curl.

Ultimately your decision will be dictated by the veneer. Paper-backed over vinyl= contact cement. Unbacked over wood= carpenter's glue. I should also mention with wood glue it would be best to do one side of the cabinet at a time. Use a piece of 3/4" MDF as a caul to keep the veneer flat, along with clamps or heavy weights to hold the caul in place.

[johnastockman]

> Hi hi,

> I am already starting another project. :-)

> I have some horrible old Bose speakers my
> best friend gave me, his wife made him. They
> are Bose with the cheesiest drivers - a ten
> inch and a transister radio tweeter. Anyway
> though they are the perfect volume for a
> pair of Apexjr Super8 woofers. I was
> wondering if wood veneer can be applied
> right over that thin plasicky fake wood
> grain stuff they cover cheesy speakers in? I
> mean, it's done with contact cement which
> has no problem with plastic. I have some
> beautiful wide veneer a bought for just $10.

> thanks!

> Kiira

Kiira, another project already? Rawk on! I've been in this situation before...it will work best if you can remove the vinyl stuff. bose is horrible, old or new! Also, they use a low density material for their enclosures, not even up to plain particle board density. So if you do try to remove the vinyl, it might take chunks of the LDF with it. Put a bit of contact cement on a small area and see if it affects the vinyl at all. If it doesn't bubble up, you should be OK. Let us know how it comes out!

John A.

[uglogirl]

> Are you planning on using these boxes just
> as subs?

Hi Dirk... yes they are just for the apexjr 8" subs. Don't worry I figured out the volume and response curves and all that jazz. :-) I'll add another baffle over the original to make it stronger... add bracing too. These are rather crummy speakers yup.

You may wonder why I'd do this but you see I have no woodworking tools or a place to work wood with them if I did. Even a crummy enclosure is better than none, if Ican modify it. Heck.. they were free and the veneer was $10 so even if I screw them up totally I've learned a lot. :-)

[uglogirl]

Hi John,

> Kiira, another project already? Rawk on!

Yup I'm on a roll here. :-)

> I've been in this situation before...it will
> work best if you can remove the vinyl stuff.

yech, ok I'll give that a try... but I think maybe I'll try doing the bottom first with some veneer over the plasic and see what happens. I have 30 sheets of 10X22 inch veneer so I can waste some if it comes to that.

I was also thinking of doing them with formica and that would be cool but they wouldn't match their Electrovoice/Pioneer full range/ ribbon tweeter brothers. We'll see. I'm flexible.

The veneer is all wood I suspect. It's only 1/42".

thanks EVERYONE for all the great advice,

Kiira

[johnastockman]

> Hi John,

> Yup I'm on a roll here. :-)

> yech, ok I'll give that a try... but I think
> maybe I'll try doing the bottom first with
> some veneer over the plasic and see what
> happens. I have 30 sheets of 10X22 inch
> veneer so I can waste some if it comes to
> that.

> I was also thinking of doing them with
> formica and that would be cool but they
> wouldn't match their Electrovoice/Pioneer
> full range/ ribbon tweeter brothers. We'll
> see. I'm flexible.

> The veneer is all wood I suspect. It's only
> 1/42".

> thanks EVERYONE for all the great advice,

> Kiira

Kiira, that's a great idea...see if it sticks well to the bottom first. How thick are the sides, etc. of those bose cabinets? Another baffle and some bracing will help with damping cabinet vibrations if the walls are 1/2" thick or less. If it's in your budget, you could also try some of the damping sheets sold here at PE...peel-n-stick to the interior walls, make sure the surface is clean. It cuts easily with a utility knife. I've used it before with good results and it hasn't come un-stuck. Other guys here use different methods, such as inexpensive vinyl floor tiles, some sheet type roofing products, etc. Some of those you have to glue on, others have their own adhesive. It really helps to make the box "dead", especially if the original material is thin or low density.

John A.

[uglogirl]

Hi John,

>How thick
> are the sides, etc. of those bose cabinets?
> Another baffle and some bracing will help
> with damping cabinet vibrations if the walls
> are 1/2" thick or less.

They are 5/8" fiberboard.. yanno, the usual stuff for really cheap speakers. I'm going to take all your suggestions, add a mdf 2nd baffle layer, braces, deadening. I'm also going to use some different drivers not my not apexjrs. These subs will be more experimental not a "showcase of my living room" type project ha ha :-) I have some leftover lavender latex I can roll on. kidding!

some sheet type roofing products,
> etc.

The black felt-y stuff that goes on roofs? There's some of that leftover where I work.

thanks as usual for the help!

Kiira