Best cone midrange

[killerkowalczyk]

What would be the best driver to use in the 200-2500hz range that PE offers up to $120 a piece?

any suggestions or experiences are appreciated.

[bryanjackson]

RS150 would do you fine, as would the rs125.

[wg_ski]

> What would be the best driver to use in the
> 200-2500hz range that PE offers up to $120 a
> piece?

> any suggestions or experiences are
> appreciated.

294-652. My applications may be different from yours, however.....

[Jeff B.]

http://www.partsexpress.com/imageslarge/294-652L.jpg

Provided Link: B&C Midrange (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=294-652)


> What would be the best driver to use in the
> 200-2500hz range that PE offers up to $120 a
> piece?

> any suggestions or experiences are
> appreciated.

In a home application this can cross that low. You might be surprised what it can do....

[unknownuser]

Peerless HDS Exclusive 830882

Cost: $66
Usability:
Build Quality:
Consistency:
Zaph Audio : <A HREF="http://www.zaphaudio.com/5.5test/">http://www.zaphaudio.com/5.5test/</A>

Comments: This is the 5.5" flagship of the Peerless line. It's touted as having low distortion, and it lives up to that. Harmonic distortion was near Scan Speak levels with the exception of some issues between 400 and 500 Hz. The 450 Hz peak in HD was exactly the same in both samples, leading to an extra star for consistency but holding back one star for usability. If I had to speculate on the 450hz HD peak, it's probably related to the dustcap-cone configuration. The frame casting was a little on the rough side, and the phase plug was not centered as well as I have often seen in Seas speakers. Overall, it's still a great driver and a good value but honestly I would have hoped for a little more attention to details.

or slightly above your price range:

Seas Excel W15CY-001 (Magnesium)

Cost: $135
Usability:
Build Quality:
Consistency:
Value: Comments: This is Seas' definitive high end driver. Response within the usable band is flat line smooth, and harmonic distortion is excellent, though a notch down from the Scan Speaks and the Peerless Exclusive. The breakup node is easily controllable with a simple RLC notch, though I consider the optimum crossover point of this driver to be around 2kHz, maybe higher depending on how much that 2.3kHz 3rd order harmonic distortion bugs you. The 5th order harmonic at 1.5Khz is low enough to be off the audible radar. It's not the cheapest 5.5" around, but it's probably worth the extra cost. Note: a couple stars off consistency for a wandering breakup node over the years.


(Originally posted by: Pinky)

[rudyjakubin]

> 294-652. My applications may be different
> from yours, however.....
<A HREF="http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=294-652&CFID=1198770&CFTOKEN=48034275">http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=294-652&CFID=1198770&CFTOKEN=48034275</A>

That one would be 'great' for rock and metal..

[robertcottiers]

> In a home application this can cross that
> low. You might be surprised what it can
> do....

Jeff:I have had my eye on that one for a long time!...Have you built anything with it?

Bob C.

[wg_ski]

Coloration? Nah.... Just something that will drive a horn up to a couple kHz.

[scottanderson]

Provided Link: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=297-302

[wg_ski]

> Jeff:I have had my eye on that one for a
> long time!...Have you built anything with
> it?

> Bob C.

Not Jeff, but yes. I bought a dozen to load my upper mids in the Sonic Armageddon system, and d@mn those things sound good. They'll mate pretty well with a ribbon for a high efficiency system.

See, I'm not the only one thinking 'loud'.

[robertcottiers]

> Not Jeff, but yes. I bought a dozen to load
> my upper mids in the Sonic Armageddon
> system, and d@mn those things sound good.
> They'll mate pretty well with a ribbon for a
> high efficiency system.

> See, I'm not the only one thinking 'loud'.

Warren:That's exactly what I had in mind,pairing it up with a ribbon tweeter....Have any pics of the "Sonic Armageddon"

Thanks Bob C.

[Pete Schumacher ®]

[thylantyr]

> What would be the best driver to use in the
> 200-2500hz range that PE offers up to $120 a
> piece?

> any suggestions or experiences are
> appreciated.

If you seek the best in the $120 category,
why limit yourself to one vendor?

[wg_ski]

> Warren:That's exactly what I had in
> mind,pairing it up with a ribbon
> tweeter....

If only the R2's could handle the kind of pounding I subject a system to, I'd have built that already. Experiments at lower volumes (i.e. tube amp levels) were quite positive.

> Have any pics of the "Sonic
> Armageddon"

No good ones - the latest was all unfinished plywood cabs in very poor light. I'm about 2 weeks out from having the paint job complete. Some time after Hotter than Hell I'll set it up for a (cringe) sound check (call the cops now) and photo op. Then I'll need to set up a site to post them....

[robertcottiers]

> If only the R2's could handle the kind of
> pounding I subject a system to, I'd have
> built that already. Experiments at lower
> volumes (i.e. tube amp levels) were quite
> positive.

> No good ones - the latest was all unfinished
> plywood cabs in very poor light. I'm about 2
> weeks out from having the paint job
> complete. Some time after Hotter than Hell
> I'll set it up for a (cringe) sound check
> (call the cops now) and photo op. Then I'll
> need to set up a site to post them....

I will be on the lookout when you post again...I think I might pull the trigger on those drivers real soon...

Regards Bob C.

[dick]

> Not Jeff, but yes. I bought a dozen to load
> my upper mids in the Sonic Armageddon
> system, and d@mn those things sound good.
> They'll mate pretty well with a ribbon for a
> high efficiency system.

> See, I'm not the only one thinking 'loud'.

I've used a couple of the PHL's, including the #000 series, 2411 and the 1120.....does the B&C compare sonically with any of these? BTW, the 1120 works VERY well with the AC G2 ribbon. If our questioner was willing to stray from PE as the source, the 1120 is a slam dunk no brainer IMHO.

Dick

[thylantyr]

>B&C compare sonically with any of these?

I'll place my bet.

PHL 8" wins, albiet at 2.5x the cost of the B&C. :)

If someone is willing to dish out a few bills
for a good ribbon tweeter or compression driver/horn, then go with the PHL product.

[nick29498141]

to do with that? I know PE offers a mid with 100+ db sensitivity, but with .6mm of Xmax, what would you do with that? If it where going to be used in a Hi-Fi project, would you need a 4-way or just a gradually sloping 3-way to make up for lack of extension, I know it can put out, but 1mm? I guess I' out of my game here, care to edumacate me a bit? :)

NK

[paul_n_oneal]

The 1120 is a 6.5", which 8" are you referring too? I mean none of them go low low, not even the 18". Can you describe the sound as best as possible? I know it was to be my last post, but his grabbed my attention because I have the bills saved up for some PHL 1120s. Dump us with all the information you have please.

Paul

[unknownuser]

that is true.....

Dayton RS150S-8

Cost: $29
Usability:
Build Quality:
Consistency:
Value: Comments: The Dayton RS line has been a long time price/performance leader from Parts Express. The harmonic distortion level is not seen in any other driver at this price point. The response curve is a little bit ragged, and the breakup node has 2 peaks, but for the most part it is controllable with a few extra crossover components. The isn't a Scan Speak or Seas Excel level performance, but at this price anyone can be happy with this choice of driver. Bonus points for looking like a stealth fighter. Admit it, looks are important.

Dayton RS125

Cost: $22
Usability:
Build Quality:
Consistency:
Value: Comments: Excellent performing small woofer, though it's lower efficiency will somewhat limit it's use as a midrange driver. This is effectively a 4" midwoofer with a rather large flange. Typical excellent Dayton RS build quality and consistency. Recommended highest crossover point is 2.5 kHz LR4. I don't recommend LR2 usage with this driver. This driver is visually beautiful. Excellent bass performance for this size driver.

Best Value: Dayton DA175-8 - This is a metal cone driver that, for $19, performs nearly as well as the Seas L18 at lower output levels. At higher levels, a little compression and non-linear BL will become evident due to frame and motor design, but at that price, you can just buy two. It's interesting that the MCM 55-1860 obviously uses the same cone, dust cap and surround, but a change in spiders and a vented motor appear to make a difference in distortion and response. 2nd place for value is the Dayton RS180. Obviously, Parts Express is big on value.


(Originally posted by: Pinky)

[rudyjakubin]

> to do with that? I know PE offers a mid with
> 100+ db sensitivity, but with .6mm of Xmax,
> what would you do with that? If it where
> going to be used in a Hi-Fi project, would
> you need a 4-way or just a gradually sloping
> 3-way to make up for lack of extension, I
> know it can put out, but 1mm? I guess I' out
> of my game here, care to edumacate me a bit?
> :)

You'd have to build yourself a PA speaker to understand. The pair I gave to my son can't be played higher than 3 on his volume control. It's a Pioneer 75 watter vintage receiver.

[rudyjakubin]

> Coloration? Nah.... Just something that will
> drive a horn up to a couple kHz.

I was referring to paper, aluminum, kevlar cones etc...

Anyways, I knew you were up to something with that Armagedon array from your previous replys and posts.

I got something brewing that can't be revealed til after September...

Probably something similar to what you are putting together.

[Jeff B.]

> The 1120 is a 6.5", which 8" are
> you referring too? I mean none of them go
> low low, not even the 18". Can you
> describe the sound as best as possible? I
> know it was to be my last post, but his
> grabbed my attention because I have the
> bills saved up for some PHL 1120s. Dump us
> with all the information you have please.

> Paul

He's referring to an 8" in his comparison to PHL because an 8" is what I posted above.

[Pete Schumacher ®]

> to do with that? I know PE offers a mid with
> 100+ db sensitivity, but with .6mm of Xmax,
> what would you do with that? If it where
> going to be used in a Hi-Fi project, would
> you need a 4-way or just a gradually sloping
> 3-way to make up for lack of extension, I
> know it can put out, but 1mm? I guess I' out
> of my game here, care to edumacate me a bit?
> :)

> NK

1mm Xmax for an 8" mid driver working above 200Hz is plenty.

[Pete Schumacher ®]

> The 1120 is a 6.5", which 8" are
> you referring too? I mean none of them go
> low low, not even the 18". Can you
> describe the sound as best as possible? I
> know it was to be my last post, but his
> grabbed my attention because I have the
> bills saved up for some PHL 1120s. Dump us
> with all the information you have please.

> Paul

Hey, what are you doing posting another message? You promised . . .

[dlsbobby]

> Not Jeff, but yes. I bought a dozen to load
> my upper mids in the Sonic Armageddon
> system, and d@mn those things sound good.
> They'll mate pretty well with a ribbon for a
> high efficiency system.

> See, I'm not the only one thinking 'loud'.
I know I live in MI and all but throw a "brother" a bone. What do ya have cookin? Robert.

[nick29498141]

What's this mid going to be used for, a possible array for that monsterous system you where talkin' aboput eairlier (the one with 6 x 12" RS' per side)?

NK

[Andy_G]

http://users.tpg.com.au/users/gradds/little_orange_guy.gif


> Hey, what are you doing posting another
> message? You promised . . .

it's what's called an addiction.... ;-))

bet YOU can't stop posting for say 2 weeks .............................please ;-))

[Pete Schumacher ®]

> it's what's called an addiction.... ;-))

> bet YOU can't stop posting for say 2 weeks
> .............................please ;-))

You're absolutely right, unless it's 'cuz I'm on vacation!!!

But, a promise is a promise!

[Jeff B.]

> Jeff:I have had my eye on that one for a
> long time!...Have you built anything with
> it?

> Bob C.

I have had limited exposure to this driver, but someone I respect a lot is really impressed with it. However, since PE doesn't carry PHL, and the poster limited us to that selection, I picked this driver as the closest I could get. I have heard good things about it, and with the shorting ring it sounds like a nice design. Personally, I would like to try it out and see how close it actually performs to the PHL. I have a feeling that it won't be that far off. Of all of the drivers PE carries this one would be at the top of my list of mids to try for dynamic reproduction. Pro mids should not be cast off so easily as some people tend to do.

I am currently working on a design for myself that uses a PHL midrange in an open baffle. I will report on it when I am farther along.

[Andy_G]

> You're absolutely right, unless it's 'cuz
> I'm on vacation!!!

> But, a promise is a promise!

chuckle..

[Jeff B.]

> Warren:That's exactly what I had in
> mind,pairing it up with a ribbon
> tweeter....Have any pics of the "Sonic
> Armageddon"

> Thanks Bob C.

I have been told by my unnamed source that it matches beautifully to the Aurum Cantus G2....just in case you were wondering.

[thylantyr]

> The 1120 is a 6.5", which 8" are
> you referring too? I mean none of them go
> low low, not even the 18". Can you
> describe the sound as best as possible? I
> know it was to be my last post, but his
> grabbed my attention because I have the
> bills saved up for some PHL 1120s. Dump us
> with all the information you have please.

> Paul

All secrets can't be revealed to the public,
email me. :hehe:

[robertcottiers]

> I have been told by my unnamed source that
> it matches beautifully to the Aurum Cantus
> G2....just in case you were wondering.

Jeff:If your unnamed source is Shawn A then I might be on to cracking the case of "Project X",this is the clandestine top secret project Burrito Boy is scheduled to deliver sometime in October...I'm on to you Shawn!!!

Regards Bob C.

[killerkowalczyk]

> What's this mid going to be used for, a
> possible array for that monsterous system
> you where talkin' aboput eairlier (the one
> with 6 x 12" RS' per side)?

> NK

Indeed

2 towers per side

1- (6 or 8 Dayton RS12"HO)
2- (4 or 6 mids undecided, tweeter's undecided)

[jonl]

I have used both the PHL 1120 & the B&C 8PS21. I have to say that the B&C performs admirably compared to the PHL, but it's hard to beat the midrange of the 1120 (dang near impossible, if you ask me). To compare apples to apples I'd like to hear the PHL 2440 compared to the 8PS21, they are both mid-woofers with very close t/s params. I bet most people couldn't tell the difference.

[wg_ski]

> I know I live in MI and all but throw a
> "brother" a bone. What do ya have
> cookin? Robert.

You've seen Sonic Armageddon already Robert - well, without any paint :-). New pics are on their way smometime around Labor Day. For the uninitiated, SA is a 4 way fully horn loaded system with labhorns on the bottom end and mains of my own design. When I get all the amps (48kW, may take a few years), it will be capable of doing venues up to about 5000 people.

The idea I've been kicking around lately is using one of the B&C's with an R2, and three Dayton 15" Series 2's per side. I either need to solve the power handling issue, or think about a bigger ($$$) ribbon. I'm using the R1's with a Focal midrange and a higher crososver point and it sounds fabulous but won't deliver PA levels. The next design will :-).

[Pete Schumacher ®]

http://www.partsexpress.com/images/275-030m.jpg


> You've seen Sonic Armageddon already Robert
> - well, without any paint :-). New pics are
> on their way smometime around Labor Day. For
> the uninitiated, SA is a 4 way fully horn
> loaded system with labhorns on the bottom
> end and mains of my own design. When I get
> all the amps (48kW, may take a few years),
> it will be capable of doing venues up to
> about 5000 people.

> The idea I've been kicking around lately is
> using one of the B&C's with an R2, and three
> Dayton 15" Series 2's per side. I
> either need to solve the power handling
> issue, or think about a bigger ($$$) ribbon.
> I'm using the R1's with a Focal midrange and
> a higher crososver point and it sounds
> fabulous but won't deliver PA levels. The
> next design will :-).

Instead of a ribbon, have you thought about a 4' - 6' tall array of those little Dayton Neos?

[biff]

http://www.partsexpress.com/images/297-568m.jpg

Provided Link: davis 16 (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=297-568&DID=7)


Anyone ever use these? I never see any thing about them, but own a pair (ebay) at reasonable cost - they sound nice running full range, better with a simple XO and C23s - googling doesn't give much at all.

[wg_ski]

> Instead of a ribbon, have you thought about
> a 4' - 6' tall array of those little Dayton
> Neos?

If I was doing a cheap line array, maybe. But if you've ever heard a good ribbon you'll understand that Nothing Else Even Comes Close.

[dick]

> I have used both the PHL 1120 & the B&C
> 8PS21. I have to say that the B&C performs
> admirably compared to the PHL, but it's hard
> to beat the midrange of the 1120 (dang near
> impossible, if you ask me). To compare
> apples to apples I'd like to hear the PHL
> 2440 compared to the 8PS21, they are both
> mid-woofers with very close t/s params. I
> bet most people couldn't tell the
> difference.

I agree on the 1120, an exceptional mid in all respects except for a flat FR! The 2411 is a driver that I did a 2-way with a while back. No bass of course, but a very nice midrange for HT applications where the sub can back up a "small" speaker. Very similar character to the 1120, just not as refined. They both have a "livliness" that defies description. Does the B&C share this characteristic?

Dick

[shawn_a]

Not even close Bob. I don't even know what Obiwan Jeffnobi has cooking right now. I do know a few things about his project but not enough to get a clear picture of what the Jedi in Residence has up the sleeve of his robe.

And for the record, I'm using an AC G2i (round face) tweeter on Project X. But keep guessing my friend. Only one person knows the details of my construction and even he doesn't know the whole story. Evil plans are afoot. I just have to hunker down this weekend and get the glue-up finished.

shawn

[robertcottiers]

> Not even close Bob. I don't even know what
> Obiwan Jeffnobi has cooking right now. I do
> know a few things about his project but not
> enough to get a clear picture of what the
> Jedi in Residence has up the sleeve of his
> robe.

> And for the record, I'm using an AC G2i
> (round face) tweeter on Project X. But keep
> guessing my friend. Only one person knows
> the details of my construction and even he
> doesn't know the whole story. Evil plans are
> afoot. I just have to hunker down this
> weekend and get the glue-up finished.

> shawn

Alright..You may have thrown that fastball right by me...But just wait till I get that changeup..

You might even get me to 0 and 2...that's when I'm most dangerous....

Sleep with one eye open my friend...

Regards Bob C. :)

[robertcottiers]

> Not even close Bob. I don't even know what
> Obiwan Jeffnobi has cooking right now. I do
> know a few things about his project but not
> enough to get a clear picture of what the
> Jedi in Residence has up the sleeve of his
> robe.

> And for the record, I'm using an AC G2i
> (round face) tweeter on Project X. But keep
> guessing my friend. Only one person knows
> the details of my construction and even he
> doesn't know the whole story. Evil plans are
> afoot. I just have to hunker down this
> weekend and get the glue-up finished.

> shawn

Oh Yea:Maybe I'll just have 24 RS 15 inch subs shipped to Wolf's residence in exchange for...."A little information"....ok whats the count now? 1 and 1..

Take me out to the ballgame! :)

[shawn_a]

Er... Bob.

I imagine Wolf would love the gesture but his wife might want to have you pushing up some daisies. Hehehe.

Wolf has been guessing what I have planned for a finish and hasn't gotten it yet. Of course, as I told him, I wouldn't even tell him if he got it right!

Count still at 1-1.

shawn

[Pete Schumacher ®]

> If I was doing a cheap line array, maybe.
> But if you've ever heard a good ribbon
> you'll understand that Nothing Else Even
> Comes Close.

Of course I've heard good ribbons.

That's why I suggested the "cheap" line array.

[Jeff B.]

> Jeff:If your unnamed source is Shawn A then
> I might be on to cracking the case of
> "Project X",this is the
> clandestine top secret project Burrito Boy
> is scheduled to deliver sometime in
> October...I'm on to you Shawn!!!

> Regards Bob C.

Honestly, I have no idea what Shawn may be working on. The person I was referring to is someone who works professionally in this field and I figured he wouldn't want his name mentioned. I was just saying that he likes this mid and felt it worked well with the ribbon.

Jeff

[Wolf]

> Oh Yea:Maybe I'll just have 24 RS 15 inch
> subs shipped to Wolf's residence in exchange
> for...."A little
> information"....ok whats the count now?
> 1 and 1..

My wife would kill me!

I feel it's an appropriate cost to get info out of me, though! I, however, do not even know about his "Area 51" paint job. Even my fellow aliens on Mars haven't a clue about that....

> Take me out to the ballgame! :)

...Buy me some speakers and 'nana jacks,
I don't care if I know all the facts,
For it's boom boom boom for the subb-ies,
If they don't slam it's a shame,
For it's 12-10-8 hertz and down in the low sub game!

Heehee,
Wolf

[Wolf]

> Honestly, I have no idea what Shawn may be
> working on. The person I was referring to is
> someone who works professionally in this
> field and I figured he wouldn't want his
> name mentioned. I was just saying that he
> likes this mid and felt it worked well with
> the ribbon.

> Jeff

I probably have a clue, but I'm not positive. Was he at the BESL Hoosier DIY a few years back? All I want is yes or no.
Later,
Wolf

[Jeff B.]

> I probably have a clue, but I'm not
> positive. Was he at the BESL Hoosier DIY a
> few years back? All I want is yes or no.
> Later,
> Wolf

No.

It doesn't matter who he is. Really.

[robertcottiers]

> My wife would kill me!

> I feel it's an appropriate cost to get info
> out of me, though! I, however, do not even
> know about his "Area 51" paint
> job. Even my fellow aliens on Mars haven't a
> clue about that....

> ...Buy me some speakers and 'nana jacks,
> I don't care if I know all the facts,
> For it's boom boom boom for the subb-ies,
> If they don't slam it's a shame,
> For it's 12-10-8 hertz and down in the low
> sub game!

> Heehee,
> Wolf

Wolf: Take me out of the BallGame...because I just suck at baseball.The details of "Project X" will be safe until October...My generous incentives have born no fruit...I have informed UPS to turn the truck around :)

No batter..No Batter
Bob C.

[paul_n_oneal]

> Anyone ever use these? I never see any thing
> about them, but own a pair (ebay) at
> reasonable cost - they sound nice running
> full range, better with a simple XO and C23s
> - googling doesn't give much at all.

I've looked at it from time to time but I don't think anyone has used them. The 94db efficiency is the peak. Looks like 90db less baffle step you looking at around 85-86db. It goes to low to be a true midrange. So, for these reasons, I have not used it in a design.

[wg_ski]

> I've looked at it from time to time but I
> don't think anyone has used them. The 94db
> efficiency is the peak. Looks like 90db less
> baffle step you looking at around 85-86db.
> It goes to low to be a true midrange. So,
> for these reasons, I have not used it in a
> design.

Those look like the Focals. I wonder if they have a similar sound. I could use a couple of extra 5k4211's (or clones) to make a center channel.

The Davis 8" mid looks like a true midrange - maybe similar to the 7k2? Which was a SOB to tame but sounds nice (and ends up only being about 90dB efficient) when you do.