Insignia vs. cheap 2 way kits

[kdk]

I'm looking for an inexpensive pair of speakers for a cabin. While the Insignia might be the current best bang for the buck, how do they stack up sound wise compared to the common inexpensive 2-way kits/free designs currently available to us DIY'ers?

I'm willing to spend a little more than the 90'ish dollars to buy and modify the Insignias provided my efforts and expenditure results in better sound than I can get from the Insignias.

Thanks for any advice

-Kurt

[dennismurphy]

Unfortunately, I don't have a modified BR-1 up and running, although I'm going to try and do that this weekend. Maybe I could give you some feedback when I do that. Otherwise, over a dozen people of have ordered my crossover mod during the last day or two, so we should start getting some feedback in a week or two.

[trevorg]

> I'm looking for an inexpensive pair of
> speakers for a cabin. While the Insignia
> might be the current best bang for the buck,
> how do they stack up sound wise compared to
> the common inexpensive 2-way kits/free
> designs currently available to us DIY'ers?

> I'm willing to spend a little more than the
> 90'ish dollars to buy and modify the
> Insignias provided my efforts and
> expenditure results in better sound than I
> can get from the Insignias.

> Thanks for any advice

> -Kurt

Any goals you need to meet? How Loud? How much bass? What the area are you trying to fill? What music do you listen to? What are your size requirments?

[bogie]

Is this your basic hideaway cabin?

One where you go on vacation, or special occasions?

Where you're sorta, kinda, hopin' to, well, how shall I put it... get lucky?

What kinda music rocks your cabin? If it's jazz or acoustic-type, blow a few more bucks...

[kdk]

> Is this your basic hideaway cabin?

> One where you go on vacation, or special
> occasions?

> Where you're sorta, kinda, hopin' to, well,
> how shall I put it... get lucky?

> What kinda music rocks your cabin? If it's
> jazz or acoustic-type, blow a few more
> bucks...

How should I sorta, kinda reply,,, Barry White may get some air time through said speakers. ;-)

The cabin will be used mostly for weekend stays between May and September.

Most of the music my wife and I listen to is classic rock, she listens to a fair amount of smooth jazz but not much classical jazz.

Listening levels will usually be relatively low, but they need to support enough SPL so that they can be heard outside on an adjacent patio with windows open.

The DIY designs I had in mind were on the same wavelength as the BR-1 kit that Dennis mentioned above (Or Wayne's sister design) using the Dayton drivers. I might consider going as large as a moderate MTM or TMM, provided the additional performance is worth the cost, John Krutke's budget MTM is a candidate for this type of design. I don't have any problem pushing a 4 ohm load, if the design path leads in that direction. These speakers won't be used with a sub, so bass extension has to be considered.

As far as kits/available designs go, I'd rather put my money into the components and make my own boxes. This will allow me to stretch my budget on the things that really count.

Thanks for the replies

[Pete Schumacher ®]

> How should I sorta, kinda reply,,, Barry
> White may get some air time through said
> speakers. ;-)

> The cabin will be used mostly for weekend
> stays between May and September.

> Most of the music my wife and I listen to is
> classic rock, she listens to a fair amount
> of smooth jazz but not much classical jazz.

> Listening levels will usually be relatively
> low, but they need to support enough SPL so
> that they can be heard outside on an
> adjacent patio with windows open.

> The DIY designs I had in mind were on the
> same wavelength as the BR-1 kit that Dennis
> mentioned above (Or Wayne's sister design)
> using the Dayton drivers. I might consider
> going as large as a moderate MTM or TMM,
> provided the additional performance is worth
> the cost, John Krutke's budget MTM is a
> candidate for this type of design. I don't
> have any problem pushing a 4 ohm load, if
> the design path leads in that direction.
> These speakers won't be used with a sub, so
> bass extension has to be considered.

> As far as kits/available designs go, I'd
> rather put my money into the components and
> make my own boxes. This will allow me to
> stretch my budget on the things that really
> count.

> Thanks for the replies

If you need bass, forget the insignias. they got nothing special.

Now, Zaph's BAMTM using the DA175 will provide excellent bass, to the mid 50s F3 in a sealed enclosure. No contest between the two.

[dlr]

> Unfortunately, I don't have a modified BR-1
> up and running, although I'm going to try
> and do that this weekend. Maybe I could give
> you some feedback when I do that. Otherwise,
> over a dozen people of have ordered my
> crossover mod during the last day or two, so
> we should start getting some feedback in a
> week or two.

I think that I may buy your board to use for my XO, even though a few components will still need to be located off of it.

One question. You've got measured results that look really good. Were those made with the layout of the board? I ask because I see two inductors very close, even though they are orthogonally placed. Their centerline of the one "pointing" to the other does not intersect the center of the other, leaving some room for inductive coupling. Have you checked that?

dlr

[dennismurphy]

The plots on my page are lspCAD simulations based on my raw driver measurements. I used those because they show the response of the individual drivers, which explains a lot about how the stock Insignia sounds. I've taken actual plots with a prototype board that has the inductors further apart with no opportunity for coupling, and with the pcb's installed in the cabinets. The plots are very similar, and there's certainly no problem with the actual sound. So I don't think the inductor positioning is a practical problem. The larger issue is sample-to-sample variations in the Insignias themselves.

[curt_c]

http://www.geocities.com/cc00541/CinderellaBPic.GIF

Provided Link: Curt's Speakerbuilding Pages (http://www.geocities.com/cc00541/index.html)


You might consider Wayne's Cinderellas as an alternative to the typical rectangular box, otherwise, check out the TriTrixMT and MTM.

Both designs were well received at IowaDIY this year...

See the link below...

C

[kdk]

> You might consider Wayne's Cinderellas as an
> alternative to the typical rectangular box,
> otherwise, check out the TriTrixMT and MTM.

> Both designs were well received at IowaDIY
> this year...

> See the link below...

> C
Looks like a fun one, but unfortunately it blows the budget out of the water.

-(the other) Kurt

[kdk]

> If you need bass, forget the insignias. they
> got nothing special.

> Now, Zaph's BAMTM using the DA175 will
> provide excellent bass, to the mid 50s F3 in
> a sealed enclosure. No contest between the
> two.
I'm continuing to keep those on the list. They're a little pricier than my initial thoughts, but it seems the performance improvements may justify the additional cost. Any insight as to the sound of the Al drivers? I've never owned a pair of metallic speakers. Although, I'm listening to a pair of Focal tweets now, which are far from mellow. I'm just bummed that the major sale at PE ended before I could decide what to do. (I'm also in the market for a sub amp and the BASH 500 sale priced at 159 looked appealing, back up to 228 now,, D'Oh!).

[Pete Schumacher ®]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a203/pete_schumacher/IowaDIYprojectcomplete.jpg


> I'm continuing to keep those on the list.
> They're a little pricier than my initial
> thoughts, but it seems the performance
> improvements may justify the additional
> cost. Any insight as to the sound of the Al
> drivers? I've never owned a pair of metallic
> speakers. Although, I'm listening to a pair
> of Focal tweets now, which are far from
> mellow. I'm just bummed that the major sale
> at PE ended before I could decide what to
> do. (I'm also in the market for a sub amp
> and the BASH 500 sale priced at 159 looked
> appealing, back up to 228 now,, D'Oh!).

I've got a BIG version of John's speaker (see pic) using a different tweeter. I supplement for baffle step using an additional pair of woofers, in a MTMWW 2.5-way. The sound is really smooth, bass very well defined. The DA175 is a very nice performing driver when used within its limits. It doesn't take much power to push them into distortion at low frequencies. So, the more of them you have, the better they'll sound at increased power levels.

You can build a pair, including cabinets, for around $250.

[Pete Schumacher ®]

> Looks like a fun one, but unfortunately it
> blows the budget out of the water.

> -(the other) Kurt

There's only $130 worth of mids ($10) and tweets ($5) and woofers ($20) in the pair. The XO adds a bit being a 3.5-way though. Still, they were really nice sounding speakers.

[jonpike]

> If you need bass, forget the insignias. they
> got nothing special.

> Now, Zaph's BAMTM using the DA175 will
> provide excellent bass, to the mid 50s F3 in
> a sealed enclosure. No contest between the
> two.

I would point out that a DA175 design would have the advantage of lower distortion vs the classic Daytons thru most of the midrange... as well as that good low bass to help Barry out. ;-)

PS, going with the smooth jazz taste, there's a album by John Klemmer, from back in the 70's.. Blue something... had a smeary cover pic of Klemmer with his Sax tinted deep blue... Mellow, soulful Sax playing. I remember the, uh.. extreme aphrodisiac effect it had on the gal I was with at the time. Might be one to add to the collection.

Might be and idea to find a copy myself, now that I think about it...

[Pete Schumacher ®]

> I would point out that a DA175 design would
> have the advantage of lower distortion vs
> the classic Daytons thru most of the
> midrange... as well as that good low bass to
> help Barry out. ;-)

> PS, going with the smooth jazz taste,
> there's a album by John Klemmer, from back
> in the 70's.. Blue something... had a smeary
> cover pic of Klemmer with his Sax tinted
> deep blue... Mellow, soulful Sax playing. I
> remember the, uh.. extreme aphrodisiac
> effect it had on the gal I was with at the
> time. Might be one to add to the collection.

> Might be and idea to find a copy myself, now
> that I think about it...

Wow, talk about going off on a tangent!!! Whoosh! ;-)

A single DA175 has its limits. It's only marginally better on the low end in real terms as its Xmax is just over 4mm. That's nothing to brag about. Where it really shines over the classic is smoothness of response and lower distortion through the critical midrange. If you can limit the use of a TM with something like a high pass filter (small speaker mode), then the performance of the DA175 will blow away the classic in every respect. You can really turn them up if you keep the lows away from them.

If you want to run them full range, you need to be in a smaller room, or you'll find yourself overwhelming them with a 100W amp. In that case, they will provide deep and smooth bass response to satisfying levels. Just don't expect it to be the front main of your HT setup unless you run it small speaker mode and supplement with a sub. If you do, you'll find that 100W is just about right and they really begin to sing without sound muddy in the slightest.