View Full Version : I had a good chuckle... but some may be offended!
Andy_G
03-28-2007, 07:28 PM
Cheers! NEWS FLASH!
Britain is Repossessing the U.S.A.
To the citizens of the United States of America:
In light of your failure to elect a competent President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective immediately.
Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths, and territories (excepting Kansas, which she does not fancy).Your new prime minister, Tony Blair, will appoint a governor for America without the need for further elections. Congress and the Senate will be disbanded.
A questionnaire may be circulated next year to determine whether any of you noticed.
To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect: (You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford English Dictionary.)
1. Then look up aluminium, and check the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it.
2. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such as 'favour' and 'neighbour.' Likewise, you will learn to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half the letters, and the suffix -ize will be replaced by the suffix -ise. Generally, you will be expected to raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. (look up 'vocabulary').
3. Using the same twenty-seven words interspersed with filler noises such as "like" and "you know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication.
There is no such thing as US English. We will let Microsoft know on your behalf. The Microsoft spell- checker will be adjusted to take account of the reinstated letter 'u' and the elimination of -ize. You will relearn your original national anthem, God Save The Queen.
4. July 4th will no longer be celebrated as a holiday.
5. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using guns, lawyers, or therapists. The fact that you need so many lawyers and therapists shows that you're not adult enough to be independent. Guns should only be handled by adults. If you're not adult enough to sort things out without suing someone or speaking to a therapist then you're not grown up enough to handle a gun.
6. Therefore, you will no longer be allowed to own or carry anything more dangerous than a vegetable peeler. A permit will be required if you wish to carry a vegetable peeler in public.
7. All American cars are hereby banned. They are crap and this is for your own good. When we show you German cars, you will understand what we mean. Holden Monaro's are also approved.
8. All intersections will be replaced with roundabouts, and you will start driving on the left with immediate effect. At the same time, you will go metric with immediate effect and without the benefit of conversion tables. Both roundabouts and metrication will help you understand the British sense of humour.
9. The Former USA will adopt UK prices on petrol (which you have been calling gasoline)-roughly $6/US gallon. Get used to it.
10. You will learn to make real chips. Those things you call French fries are not real chips, and those things you insist on calling potato chips are properly called crisps. Real chips are thick cut, fried in animal fat, and dressed not with catsup but with vinegar.
11. The cold tasteless stuff you insist on calling beer is not actually beer at all. Henceforth, only proper British Bitter will be referred to as beer, and European brews of known and accepted provenance will be referred to as Lager. Australian beer is also acceptable as they are pound for pound the greatest sporting Nation on earth and it can only be due to the beer. They are also a British Colony, see what it did for them.
American brands will be referred to as Near-Frozen Gnat's Urine, so that all can be sold without risk of further confusion.
12. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as good guys. Hollywood will
also be required to cast English actors to play English characters. Watching Andie Macdowell attempt English dialogue in Four Weddings and a Funeral was an experience akin to having one's ears removed with a cheese grater.
13. You will cease playing American football. There is only one kind of proper football; you call it soccer. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which has some similarities to American football, but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like a bunch of nancies). Don't try Rugby League, the Aussies and Kiwis will thrash you, like they regularly thrash us.
14. Further, you will stop playing baseball. It is not reasonable to host an event called the World Series for a game which is not played outside of America. Since only 2.1% of you are aware that there is a world beyond your borders, your error is understandable. You will learn cricket, and we will let you face the Aussies first to take the sting out of their deliveries.
15. You must tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us mad.
16. An internal revenue agent (i.e. tax collector) from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure the acquisition of all monies due (backdated to 1776).
17. Daily Tea Time begins promptly at 4 pm with proper cups, never mugs, with high quality biscuits (cookies) and cakes; strawberries in season.
God save the Queen.
Only he can.
John Cleese
robertcottiers
03-28-2007, 07:36 PM
> Cheers! NEWS FLASH!
> Britain is Repossessing the U.S.A.
> To the citizens of the United States of
> America:
> In light of your failure to elect a
> competent President of the USA and thus to
> govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of
> the revocation of your independence,
> effective immediately.
> Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II
> will resume monarchical duties over all
> states, commonwealths, and territories
> (excepting Kansas, which she does not
> fancy).Your new prime minister, Tony Blair,
> will appoint a governor for America without
> the need for further elections. Congress and
> the Senate will be disbanded.
> A questionnaire may be circulated next year
> to determine whether any of you noticed.
> To aid in the transition to a British Crown
> Dependency, the following rules are
> introduced with immediate effect: (You
> should look up "revocation" in the
> Oxford English Dictionary.)
> 1. Then look up aluminium, and check the
> pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at
> just how wrongly you have been pronouncing
> it.
> 2. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in
> words such as 'favour' and 'neighbour.'
> Likewise, you will learn to spell 'doughnut'
> without skipping half the letters, and the
> suffix -ize will be replaced by the suffix
> -ise. Generally, you will be expected to
> raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels.
> (look up 'vocabulary').
> 3. Using the same twenty-seven words
> interspersed with filler noises such as
> "like" and "you know" is
> an unacceptable and inefficient form of
> communication.
> There is no such thing as US English. We
> will let Microsoft know on your behalf. The
> Microsoft spell- checker will be adjusted to
> take account of the reinstated letter 'u'
> and the elimination of -ize. You will
> relearn your original national anthem, God
> Save The Queen.
> 4. July 4th will no longer be celebrated as
> a holiday.
> 5. You will learn to resolve personal issues
> without using guns, lawyers, or therapists.
> The fact that you need so many lawyers and
> therapists shows that you're not adult
> enough to be independent. Guns should only
> be handled by adults. If you're not adult
> enough to sort things out without suing
> someone or speaking to a therapist then
> you're not grown up enough to handle a gun.
> 6. Therefore, you will no longer be allowed
> to own or carry anything more dangerous than
> a vegetable peeler. A permit will be
> required if you wish to carry a vegetable
> peeler in public.
> 7. All American cars are hereby banned. They
> are crap and this is for your own good. When
> we show you German cars, you will understand
> what we mean. Holden Monaro's are also
> approved.
> 8. All intersections will be replaced with
> roundabouts, and you will start driving on
> the left with immediate effect. At the same
> time, you will go metric with immediate
> effect and without the benefit of conversion
> tables. Both roundabouts and metrication
> will help you understand the British sense
> of humour.
> 9. The Former USA will adopt UK prices on
> petrol (which you have been calling
> gasoline)-roughly $6/US gallon. Get used to
> it.
> 10. You will learn to make real chips. Those
> things you call French fries are not real
> chips, and those things you insist on
> calling potato chips are properly called
> crisps. Real chips are thick cut, fried in
> animal fat, and dressed not with catsup but
> with vinegar.
> 11. The cold tasteless stuff you insist on
> calling beer is not actually beer at all.
> Henceforth, only proper British Bitter will
> be referred to as beer, and European brews
> of known and accepted provenance will be
> referred to as Lager. Australian beer is
> also acceptable as they are pound for pound
> the greatest sporting Nation on earth and it
> can only be due to the beer. They are also a
> British Colony, see what it did for them.
> American brands will be referred to as
> Near-Frozen Gnat's Urine, so that all can be
> sold without risk of further confusion.
> 12. Hollywood will be required occasionally
> to cast English actors as good guys.
> Hollywood will
> also be required to cast English actors to
> play English characters. Watching Andie
> Macdowell attempt English dialogue in Four
> Weddings and a Funeral was an experience
> akin to having one's ears removed with a
> cheese grater.
> 13. You will cease playing American
> football. There is only one kind of proper
> football; you call it soccer. Those of you
> brave enough will, in time, be allowed to
> play rugby (which has some similarities to
> American football, but does not involve
> stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or
> wearing full kevlar body armour like a bunch
> of nancies). Don't try Rugby League, the
> Aussies and Kiwis will thrash you, like they
> regularly thrash us.
> 14. Further, you will stop playing baseball.
> It is not reasonable to host an event called
> the World Series for a game which is not
> played outside of America. Since only 2.1%
> of you are aware that there is a world
> beyond your borders, your error is
> understandable. You will learn cricket, and
> we will let you face the Aussies first to
> take the sting out of their deliveries.
> 15. You must tell us who killed JFK. It's
> been driving us mad.
> 16. An internal revenue agent (i.e. tax
> collector) from Her Majesty's Government
> will be with you shortly to ensure the
> acquisition of all monies due (backdated to
> 1776).
> 17. Daily Tea Time begins promptly at 4 pm
> with proper cups, never mugs, with high
> quality biscuits (cookies) and cakes;
> strawberries in season.
> God save the Queen.
> Only he can.
> John Cleese
It's too late for Britain...Mexico has taken us over already :-)
Bob C.
daryl
03-28-2007, 08:04 PM
Some people may be offended?
That was funny.
What isn't funny is that it would be a great day for USA if that could really happen.
USA has fallen behind Britain, Canada and one or two scandinavian countries and is on it's way to becoming the next Mexico.
It was USA however that showed the rest of the world how change was necessary and is responsible for the more liberal world we know today.
But now things have gone backward and I for one would be for being annexed by Canada or Britain, but I doubt they are interested.
Daryl
Well Andy, this American who owns two MGs, drinks room temp Guinness, and puts malt vinegar on French fries, thought it was funny!
Rod
I was perched on me sitter, clappin' me hands, grinnin' from ear-to-ear, and then I read; I must drive a GERMAN motor car........ well, I'll be for havin' no part in that... but ya still got me backin', if I can be for keepin' the rice wagon!!
:-)
GC
> Cheers! NEWS FLASH!
> Britain is Repossessing the U.S.A.
> To the citizens of the United States of
> America:
> In light of your failure to elect a
> competent President of the USA and thus to
> govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of
> the revocation of your independence,
> effective immediately.
> Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II
> will resume monarchical duties over all
> states, commonwealths, and territories
> (excepting Kansas, which she does not
> fancy).Your new prime minister, Tony Blair,
> will appoint a governor for America without
> the need for further elections. Congress and
> the Senate will be disbanded.
> A questionnaire may be circulated next year
> to determine whether any of you noticed.
> To aid in the transition to a British Crown
> Dependency, the following rules are
> introduced with immediate effect: (You
> should look up "revocation" in the
> Oxford English Dictionary.)
> 1. Then look up aluminium, and check the
> pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at
> just how wrongly you have been pronouncing
> it.
> 2. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in
> words such as 'favour' and 'neighbour.'
> Likewise, you will learn to spell 'doughnut'
> without skipping half the letters, and the
> suffix -ize will be replaced by the suffix
> -ise. Generally, you will be expected to
> raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels.
> (look up 'vocabulary').
> 3. Using the same twenty-seven words
> interspersed with filler noises such as
> "like" and "you know" is
> an unacceptable and inefficient form of
> communication.
> There is no such thing as US English. We
> will let Microsoft know on your behalf. The
> Microsoft spell- checker will be adjusted to
> take account of the reinstated letter 'u'
> and the elimination of -ize. You will
> relearn your original national anthem, God
> Save The Queen.
> 4. July 4th will no longer be celebrated as
> a holiday.
> 5. You will learn to resolve personal issues
> without using guns, lawyers, or therapists.
> The fact that you need so many lawyers and
> therapists shows that you're not adult
> enough to be independent. Guns should only
> be handled by adults. If you're not adult
> enough to sort things out without suing
> someone or speaking to a therapist then
> you're not grown up enough to handle a gun.
> 6. Therefore, you will no longer be allowed
> to own or carry anything more dangerous than
> a vegetable peeler. A permit will be
> required if you wish to carry a vegetable
> peeler in public.
> 7. All American cars are hereby banned. They
> are crap and this is for your own good. When
> we show you German cars, you will understand
> what we mean. Holden Monaro's are also
> approved.
> 8. All intersections will be replaced with
> roundabouts, and you will start driving on
> the left with immediate effect. At the same
> time, you will go metric with immediate
> effect and without the benefit of conversion
> tables. Both roundabouts and metrication
> will help you understand the British sense
> of humour.
> 9. The Former USA will adopt UK prices on
> petrol (which you have been calling
> gasoline)-roughly $6/US gallon. Get used to
> it.
> 10. You will learn to make real chips. Those
> things you call French fries are not real
> chips, and those things you insist on
> calling potato chips are properly called
> crisps. Real chips are thick cut, fried in
> animal fat, and dressed not with catsup but
> with vinegar.
> 11. The cold tasteless stuff you insist on
> calling beer is not actually beer at all.
> Henceforth, only proper British Bitter will
> be referred to as beer, and European brews
> of known and accepted provenance will be
> referred to as Lager. Australian beer is
> also acceptable as they are pound for pound
> the greatest sporting Nation on earth and it
> can only be due to the beer. They are also a
> British Colony, see what it did for them.
> American brands will be referred to as
> Near-Frozen Gnat's Urine, so that all can be
> sold without risk of further confusion.
> 12. Hollywood will be required occasionally
> to cast English actors as good guys.
> Hollywood will
> also be required to cast English actors to
> play English characters. Watching Andie
> Macdowell attempt English dialogue in Four
> Weddings and a Funeral was an experience
> akin to having one's ears removed with a
> cheese grater.
> 13. You will cease playing American
> football. There is only one kind of proper
> football; you call it soccer. Those of you
> brave enough will, in time, be allowed to
> play rugby (which has some similarities to
> American football, but does not involve
> stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or
> wearing full kevlar body armour like a bunch
> of nancies). Don't try Rugby League, the
> Aussies and Kiwis will thrash you, like they
> regularly thrash us.
> 14. Further, you will stop playing baseball.
> It is not reasonable to host an event called
> the World Series for a game which is not
> played outside of America. Since only 2.1%
> of you are aware that there is a world
> beyond your borders, your error is
> understandable. You will learn cricket, and
> we will let you face the Aussies first to
> take the sting out of their deliveries.
> 15. You must tell us who killed JFK. It's
> been driving us mad.
> 16. An internal revenue agent (i.e. tax
> collector) from Her Majesty's Government
> will be with you shortly to ensure the
> acquisition of all monies due (backdated to
> 1776).
> 17. Daily Tea Time begins promptly at 4 pm
> with proper cups, never mugs, with high
> quality biscuits (cookies) and cakes;
> strawberries in season.
> God save the Queen.
> Only he can.
> John Cl
davidld
03-28-2007, 08:44 PM
All of this is fine. Just dont ask me to call the hood of my car a "bonnet" nor the gas station a "petrol depot". That is just going too far!
The Queen will be in town for the Kentucky Derby. She is staying out at Will Farish's farm. You probably know him as the Ambassador to GB a few years back in addition to being a horse guy running Lane's End. If there are any messages you would like to send the Queen from the colonies underneath, let me know.
David
dthomas
03-28-2007, 08:57 PM
Having a nephew deployed in Iraq and numerous freinds with sons and grandsons there I find John less than humorous. Maybe we should revoke all the forgiven debt and ask for our money back. And when the French don't pay us we can resell them to the highest bidder. That would basically bankrupt 3/4 of Europe and probably even Australia.
America is a great country... with good beer and if you don’t like it don’t drink it. We have provided more technological breakthroughs than all other nations combined. We could keep our technology to ourselves… but the rest of the world would not have cell phone, PCs etc…
I think we will be ok that is why we are the defenders of democracy. Goodness always prevails. We like Tony Blair also. There is a reason the rest of the world does not play American Football... it is because we would kick your pansy butts…. But hey you guys keep tapping your little ball around with your foot. We find it quite cute and very cosmopolitan. Just hope Venezuela does not kick you off the field again. We like Football, but as a gracious country you are free to use the name.
By the way tell John the 4th of July is still a holiday and will be for a very long time. Not a wise idea to poke fun at our National Holiday ask Sadaam… oh wait you can’t ask him anymore. God Bless America! I don't own a gun but am more than prepared to purchase one to make sure we are the "Land of the Free". He is only ****** because when we said "don't tread on me" we mean't it and were prepared to back it up. And by the way we know how to pronounce aluminum the rest of you just got it wrong. When you procure as much as we do you can have the right to select the correct pronunciation.
God BLESS AMERICA!!!! We are Americans we demand respect around the world and we defend those who can not defend themselves. We have Soldiers on hostile foreign soil and we do not take lightly to making fun of our Country when our soldiers are deployed. I am sure you do not feel this way and realize what a great ally we have been to Australia.
Andy you are a great guy…. Bad topic. We are a very proud country and as I know from my travels Australia is too. Don't let the mainstream media make you think for a minute that Americans are not behind what our County is doing. Oprah is not our spokesperson.
Dave
garygauthier
03-28-2007, 08:58 PM
German cars? I don't think so. I'll keep my AMERICAN MADE Honda Civic. OK, so we needed the Japanese to show us how to make a good car, So what!
> All of this is fine. Just dont ask me to
> call the hood of my car a "bonnet"
> nor the gas station a "petrol
> depot". That is just going too far!
> The Queen will be in town for the Kentucky
> Derby. She is staying out at Will Farish's
> farm. You probably know him as the
> Ambassador to GB a few years back in
> addition to being a horse guy running Lane's
> End. If there are any messages you would
> like to send the Queen from the colonies
> underneath, let me know.
> David
dthomas
03-28-2007, 09:01 PM
I learned from my Sister this morning that her Son was injured in Northern Iraq this am. This is all we know he has numerous gun shot wounds. He is a good boy and when I asked him last fall why he signed up for a second tour he told me it was because the people in Iraq wanted us there.
Pray for him. This is all we know at the moment.
Dave
garygauthier
03-28-2007, 09:02 PM
Lighten up dave!
> Having a nephew deployed in Iraq and
> numerous freinds with sons and grandsons
> there I find John less than humorous. Maybe
> we should revoke all the forgiven debt and
> ask for our money back. And when the French
> don't pay us we can resell them to the
> highest bidder. That would basically
> bankrupt 3/4 of Europe and probably even
> Australia.
> America is a great country... with good beer
> and if you don’t like it don’t drink it. We
> have provided more technological
> breakthroughs than all other nations
> combined. We could keep our technology to
> ourselves… but the rest of the world would
> not have cell phone, PCs etc…
> I think we will be ok that is why we are the
> defenders of democracy. Goodness always
> prevails. We like Tony Blair also. There is
> a reason the rest of the world does not play
> American Football... it is because we would
> kick your pansy butts…. But hey you guys
> keep tapping your little ball around with
> your foot. We find it quite cute and very
> cosmopolitan. Just hope Venezuela does not
> kick you off the field again. We like
> Football, but as a gracious country you are
> free to use the name.
> By the way tell John the 4th of July is
> still a holiday and will be for a very long
> time. Not a wise idea to poke fun at our
> National Holiday ask Sadaam… oh wait you
> can’t ask him anymore. God Bless America! I
> don't own a gun but am more than prepared to
> purchase one to make sure we are the
> "Land of the Free". He is only
> ****** because when we said "don't
> tread on me" we mean't it and were
> prepared to back it up. And by the way we
> know how to pronounce aluminum the rest of
> you just got it wrong. When you procure as
> much as we do you can have the right to
> select the correct pronunciation.
> God BLESS AMERICA!!!! We are Americans we
> demand respect around the world and we
> defend those who can not defend themselves.
> We have Soldiers on hostile foreign soil and
> we do not take lightly to making fun of our
> Country when our soldiers are deployed. I am
> sure you do not feel this way and realize
> what a great ally we have been to Australia.
> Andy you are a great guy…. Bad topic. We are
> a very proud country and as I know from my
> travels Australia is too. Don't let the
> mainstream media make you think for a minute
> that Americans are not behind what our
> County is doing. Oprah is not our
> spokesperson.
> Dave
chuckb
03-28-2007, 09:04 PM
> It's too late for Britain...Mexico has taken
> us over already :-)
> Bob C.
Yeah, and China is right behind them. BUY AMERICAN!
dthomas
03-28-2007, 09:08 PM
> Lighten up dave!
Gary,
Have you defended our County and way of life on Foreign soil?
Nothing wrong with being a Patriot or proud to be American.
Do you know that a French Company just bought Bell Labs?
Dave
shawn_a
03-28-2007, 09:14 PM
I figured that if I couldn't reply to the post in the manner in which it was written by John Cleese, which should speak volumes as to intent, I shouldn't say anything at all. There's plenty to say about what was written that I don't necessarily agree with but I seriously don't see it as being inflammatory given the light in which it was written. Now if it were written by someone other than a noted comedy sketch actor I would be bristling right now. This is why I am grateful Mr. Cleese is not a politician. Take it in the context in which I'm sure it was intended, please.
shawn
Jeff B.
03-28-2007, 09:18 PM
> Having a nephew deployed in Iraq and
> numerous freinds with sons and grandsons
> there I find John less than humorous. Maybe
> we should revoke all the forgiven debt and
> ask for our money back. And when the French
> don't pay us we can resell them to the
> highest bidder. That would basically
> bankrupt 3/4 of Europe and probably even
> Australia.
> America is a great country... with good beer
> and if you don’t like it don’t drink it. We
> have provided more technological
> breakthroughs than all other nations
> combined. We could keep our technology to
> ourselves… but the rest of the world would
> not have cell phone, PCs etc…
> I think we will be ok that is why we are the
> defenders of democracy. Goodness always
> prevails. We like Tony Blair also. There is
> a reason the rest of the world does not play
> American Football... it is because we would
> kick your pansy butts…. But hey you guys
> keep tapping your little ball around with
> your foot. We find it quite cute and very
> cosmopolitan. Just hope Venezuela does not
> kick you off the field again. We like
> Football, but as a gracious country you are
> free to use the name.
> By the way tell John the 4th of July is
> still a holiday and will be for a very long
> time. Not a wise idea to poke fun at our
> National Holiday ask Sadaam… oh wait you
> can’t ask him anymore. God Bless America! I
> don't own a gun but am more than prepared to
> purchase one to make sure we are the
> "Land of the Free". He is only
> ****** because when we said "don't
> tread on me" we mean't it and were
> prepared to back it up. And by the way we
> know how to pronounce aluminum the rest of
> you just got it wrong. When you procure as
> much as we do you can have the right to
> select the correct pronunciation.
> God BLESS AMERICA!!!! We are Americans we
> demand respect around the world and we
> defend those who can not defend themselves.
> We have Soldiers on hostile foreign soil and
> we do not take lightly to making fun of our
> Country when our soldiers are deployed. I am
> sure you do not feel this way and realize
> what a great ally we have been to Australia.
> Andy you are a great guy…. Bad topic. We are
> a very proud country and as I know from my
> travels Australia is too. Don't let the
> mainstream media make you think for a minute
> that Americans are not behind what our
> County is doing. Oprah is not our
> spokesperson.
> Dave
I am not offended at all in Andy's post, because I knew it was light-hearted fun. However, I found your post very well written and applauded it immensely, and I will pray for your sister's son.
Jeff B.
dthomas
03-28-2007, 09:40 PM
> I am not offended at all in Andy's post,
> because I knew it was light-hearted fun.
> However, I found your post very well written
> and applauded it immensely, and I will pray
> for your sister's son.
> Jeff B.
Jeff,
I don't care much at all about what is posted here that is off topic. But today is a sad day for me. I found out about 20 minutes ago that my nephew gave his life defending our Country in Irag. As an ex ROTC officer I was bothered by the response.
My Nephew was a Marine officer, he could have not went back but he chose to go back because he was a Patriot. From my conversations with him I knew this was a dangerous battlefield. My career was in an era when were not in a combative altercation. He was a very brave young man and I think Americans need to recognize the importance of who we are what we do.
It is a sad day for me... he was a good young man who spent only 4 weeks with his son and his son will only remember him for what he did. Mr. Cleese tried to make a mockery of that.
We need to all remember what it is to be Patriots. We are a great nation no matter who we elect the USA is a great Country.
Sorry for the backlash I like Andy G. and I love the debate about audio no matter who it is. I design a lot of speakers... thanks to the work of Jeff B.. His math skills and programming skills are remarkable and there are a ton of DIYers that are realizing the benifits.
Jeff... I did a PHL design recently nice midrange driver. Thanks for all the great work you do on software tools.
To all on the board... Sorry I brought my personal life to this. My Nephew was important to me, his father left before he was born and he as been like a son. Just a few years older than my son. To know he died today was tough... from my sisters initial call I knew it was bad. For those of you who follow the news it was a "suicide bomber". He hated that detail.
Dave
donparsons
03-28-2007, 10:06 PM
Dave,
I am truly sorry about the loss of your nephew. My thoughts are with you and your family in a very difficult time. I truly appreciate the the sacrifice made by the soldiers and appreciate the freedom I have every day.
I happen to live in the same town as John Cleese, and have met him. This was written as comedy. He is a decent man.
This fact in no way eases your pain or reaction to the bit. Nor should it. Again, I am very sorry for your loss.
dthomas
03-28-2007, 10:16 PM
> Dave,
> I am truly sorry about the loss of your
> nephew. My thoughts are with you and your
> family in a very difficult time. I truly
> appreciate the the sacrifice made by the
> soldiers and appreciate the freedom I have
> every day.
> I happen to live in the same town as John
> Cleese, and have met him. This was written
> as comedy. He is a decent man.
> This fact in no way eases your pain or
> reaction to the bit. Nor should it. Again, I
> am very sorry for your loss.
I understand the comedy... just tonight it was hard to take.
I apologize for my reaction to this. I know Andy is a good guy... just he was a very good boy. I know he believed in his mission and he was a good family man.
I apologize to all on the board as an ex ROTC officer I sometimes get over Patriotic. I do love this county and believe in the boys who are protecting it. And I believe that God blesses this Country.
Dave
donparsons
03-28-2007, 10:21 PM
I completely understand. Under these cirumstances you react how you react. You have a free pass in my book. Sorry again.
unknownuser
03-28-2007, 10:25 PM
NT
(Originally posted by: Curtis)
shawn_a
03-28-2007, 10:40 PM
I'm sure I echo the sentiments of everyone here when I say I'm sorry and I truly appreciate what he and the other fathers, mothers, sons and daughters are doing in service to my country. It's a thankless job being a soldier most of the time.
shawn
paul_n_oneal
03-28-2007, 10:54 PM
audioamateur
03-28-2007, 11:21 PM
I am sorry for your loss Dave. Your nephew sounds like a brave and decent man.
Andy_G
03-28-2007, 11:47 PM
> have cell phones,
You mean your Nokias??
> There is a reason the rest of the world does not play American Football... it is because we would kick your pansy butts….
Down here we play soccer, (a little bit) but mainly League, Rugby, Aussie Rules. Tell ya what, you send a couple of grid iron guys down and see how long they last in any of those codes..... no kevlar and cotton wool padding, no breaks ever 2 minutes so you can decide what to do next, and catch your breath.
BTW, I believe there are some Aussies playing Grid Iron over there and doing quite well, guys who could get no further in League than district level ;-))
The only codes that can truly be called "Football" are Soccer and Aussie Rules. Grid Iron is not "Football".
Andy_G
03-28-2007, 11:52 PM
certainly no intention to offend, was intended as lite humour.
I apologise muchly for unknowingly hitting a raw nerve.
Best Wishes,
Andy G
Andy_G
03-28-2007, 11:57 PM
It was intended in the same vain as:
"Why motorbikes are better than women"! etc
spasticteapot
03-29-2007, 12:06 AM
> Having a nephew deployed in Iraq and
> numerous freinds with sons and grandsons
> there I find John less than humorous. Maybe
> There is
> a reason the rest of the world does not play
> American Football... it is because we would
> kick your pansy butts…. But hey you guys
> keep tapping your little ball around with
> your foot. We find it quite cute and very
> cosmopolitan. Just hope Venezuela does not
> kick you off the field again.
As an American, I can state that your average rugby player can make short work of an average football player. It's a bit sad, really.
> By the way tell John the 4th of July is
> still a holiday and will be for a very long
> time. Not a wise idea to poke fun at our
> National Holiday ask Sadaam… oh wait you
> can’t ask him anymore. God Bless America!
> God BLESS AMERICA!!!!
Whee. Saddam actually was pretty much neutral to us before all this mess, last I checked - what about that Kim Jong Il chappie who's starving his people and brewing up nukes in his backyard? Or those wacky Iranians? Or that Gaddafi guy? You know, the one who sponsored Lockerbie?
>We are Americans we
> demand respect around the world and we
> defend those who can not defend themselves.
...wether they want to be defended or not.
> We have Soldiers on hostile foreign soil and
> we do not take lightly to making fun of our
> Country when our soldiers are deployed.
That line needs no punchline. It's already there.
> I am
> sure you do not feel this way and realize
> what a great ally we have been to Australia.
Eh...not really.
> don't own a gun but am more than prepared to
> purchase one to make sure we are the
> "Land of the Free...
...to blow each other to smithereens. I think the British got it right on gun control.
>He is only
> ****** because when we said "don't
> tread on me" we mean't it and were
> prepared to back it up.
HOO RAH!
>And by the way we
> know how to pronounce aluminum the rest of
> you just got it wrong. When you procure as
> much as we do you can have the right to
> select the correct pronunciation.
Sorry, say what?
Last I checked - thanks to the past dominion of the British Empire, which is thankfully no longer opressing anyone - most of the English-speakers in the world say "ah-LOO-min-EE-yum".
As far as Iraq goes, I listen to NPR, talk veterans, and their families. There are people who have been kept away from their families for years - forced on multiple tours of duty - for a war that we should'nt have tried to fight on our own.
But what REALLY ashames me, is how we outfitted our troops. Do you honestly approve of a nation that sends soldiers into the field without adequate armor?
The Iraqis do seem to want us to stay - if only so that we can clean up the @#$@#$ing mess we created.
P.S:
Monty Python Forever!
I am sorry for your loss, and hope that God is with you in your current time of need. I also am thankful for people in the military, such as your nephew, in that they are willing to give their lives to keep this country safe.
God bless you,
Wolf
I have a couple friends who have served in Iraq, one returned actually from the first desert storm with a permanently mangled arm. I completely feel for what you're going through and frankly don't see why you feel inclined to apologize for bringing it up here. There's nothing inappropriate about it.
The troops who offer their lives to serve our country are noble people. Critiques of the decisions politicians make over their lives is not a negative reflection of the good that these fine individuals represent. There is no doubt in my mind that they are doing the best they can.
garygauthier
03-29-2007, 06:19 AM
Dave,
I wrote "lighten up" as a response to the thread above this one but by the time I OKd the message this one came out. No disrespect to your fallen loved ones and no disrespect to our country. Our people are good. Our leaders are corrupt! It is my wish that no one would lose life due to George's war!!
> I learned from my Sister this morning that
> her Son was injured in Northern Iraq this
> am. This is all we know he has numerous gun
> shot wounds. He is a good boy and when I
> asked him last fall why he signed up for a
> second tour he told me it was because the
> people in Iraq wanted us there.
> Pray for him. This is all we know at the
> moment.
> Dave
1. Then look up aluminium, and check the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it.
- i actually already starrted on this
7. All American cars are hereby banned. They are crap and this is for your own good. When we show you German cars, you will understand what we mean. ... -Amen to that. bring in the toyotas, hondas and nissans as well as the benz's
American brands will be referred to as Near-Frozen Gnat's Urine, so that all can be sold without risk of further confusion.
- i dont drink but this is funny
-cute article, this is going on myspace
> Cheers! NEWS FLASH!
> Britain is Repossessing the U.S.A.
> To the citizens of the United States of
> America:
> In light of your failure to elect a
> competent President of the USA and thus to
> govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of
> the revocation of your independence,
> effective immediately.
> Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II
> will resume monarchical duties over all
> states, commonwealths, and territories
> (excepting Kansas, which she does not
> fancy).Your new prime minister, Tony Blair,
> will appoint a governor for America without
> the need for further elections. Congress and
> the Senate will be disbanded.
> A questionnaire may be circulated next year
> to determine whether any of you noticed.
> To aid in the transition to a British Crown
> Dependency, the following rules are
> introduced with immediate effect: (You
> should look up "revocation" in the
> Oxford English Dictionary.)
> 1. Then look up aluminium, and check the
> pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at
> just how wrongly you have been pronouncing
> it.
> 2. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in
> words such as 'favour' and 'neighbour.'
> Likewise, you will learn to spell 'doughnut'
> without skipping half the letters, and the
> suffix -ize will be replaced by the suffix
> -ise. Generally, you will be expected to
> raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels.
> (look up 'vocabulary').
> 3. Using the same twenty-seven words
> interspersed with filler noises such as
> "like" and "you know" is
> an unacceptable and inefficient form of
> communication.
> There is no such thing as US English. We
> will let Microsoft know on your behalf. The
> Microsoft spell- checker will be adjusted to
> take account of the reinstated letter 'u'
> and the elimination of -ize. You will
> relearn your original national anthem, God
> Save The Queen.
> 4. July 4th will no longer be celebrated as
> a holiday.
> 5. You will learn to resolve personal issues
> without using guns, lawyers, or therapists.
> The fact that you need so many lawyers and
> therapists shows that you're not adult
> enough to be independent. Guns should only
> be handled by adults. If you're not adult
> enough to sort things out without suing
> someone or speaking to a therapist then
> you're not grown up enough to handle a gun.
> 6. Therefore, you will no longer be allowed
> to own or carry anything more dangerous than
> a vegetable peeler. A permit will be
> required if you wish to carry a vegetable
> peeler in public.
> 7. All American cars are hereby banned. They
> are crap and this is for your own good. When
> we show you German cars, you will understand
> what we mean. Holden Monaro's are also
> approved.
> 8. All intersections will be replaced with
> roundabouts, and you will start driving on
> the left with immediate effect. At the same
> time, you will go metric with immediate
> effect and without the benefit of conversion
> tables. Both roundabouts and metrication
> will help you understand the British sense
> of humour.
> 9. The Former USA will adopt UK prices on
> petrol (which you have been calling
> gasoline)-roughly $6/US gallon. Get used to
> it.
> 10. You will learn to make real chips. Those
> things you call French fries are not real
> chips, and those things you insist on
> calling potato chips are properly called
> crisps. Real chips are thick cut, fried in
> animal fat, and dressed not with catsup but
> with vinegar.
> 11. The cold tasteless stuff you insist on
> calling beer is not actually beer at all.
> Henceforth, only proper British Bitter will
> be referred to as beer, and European brews
> of known and accepted provenance will be
> referred to as Lager. Australian beer is
> also acceptable as they are pound for pound
> the greatest sporting Nation on earth and it
> can only be due to the beer. They are also a
> British Colony, see what it did for them.
> American brands will be referred to as
> Near-Frozen Gnat's Urine, so that all can be
> sold without risk of further confusion.
> 12. Hollywood will be required occasionally
> to cast English actors as good guys.
> Hollywood will
> also be required to cast English actors to
> play English characters. Watching Andie
> Macdowell attempt English dialogue in Four
> Weddings and a Funeral was an experience
> akin to having one's ears removed with a
> cheese grater.
> 13. You will cease playing American
> football. There is only one kind of proper
> football; you call it soccer. Those of you
> brave enough will, in time, be allowed to
> play rugby (which has some similarities to
> American football, but does not involve
> stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or
> wearing full kevlar body armour like a bunch
> of nancies). Don't try Rugby League, the
> Aussies and Kiwis will thrash you, like they
> regularly thrash us.
> 14. Further, you will stop playing baseball.
> It is not reasonable to host an event called
> the World Series for a game which is not
> played outside of America. Since only 2.1%
> of you are aware that there is a world
> beyond your borders, your error is
> understandable. You will learn cricket, and
> we will let you face the Aussies first to
> take the sting out of their deliveries.
> 15. You must tell us who killed JFK. It's
> been driving us mad.
> 16. An internal revenue agent (i.e. tax
> collector) from Her Majesty's Government
> will be with you shortly to ensure the
> acquisition of all monies due (backdated to
> 1776).
> 17. Daily Tea Time begins promptly at 4 pm
> with proper cups, never mugs, with high
> quality biscuits (cookies) and cakes;
> strawberries in season.
> God save the Queen.
> Only he can.
> John Cleese
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 08:59 AM
> Dave,
> I wrote "lighten up" as a response
> to the thread above this one but by the time
> I OKd the message this one came out. No
> disrespect to your fallen loved ones and no
> disrespect to our country. Our people are
> good. Our leaders are corrupt! It is my wish
> that no one would lose life due to George's
> war!!
George's war? You mean the one Hillary and Kerry voted for? And demanded to vote for a second time?
Puhhhlleeeeeezzzzeee
marlboro
03-29-2007, 10:09 AM
Vast numbers of Americans, as shown in the recent congressional elections are not behind George and his "ugly American" tactics.
Speak for ONLY for yourself, not for me.
Marlboro
dthomas
03-29-2007, 10:54 AM
> Vast numbers of Americans, as shown in the
> recent congressional elections are not
> behind George and his "ugly
> American" tactics.
> Speak for ONLY for yourself, not for me.
> Marlboro
Sorry I don't recall speaking on your behalf.
Just remember though that both sides of the aisle approved the War in Iraq.
I personally feel that finishing what we start is a better policy than tucking tail and running. I think we owe that to the people in the Middle East.
Also I love American Cars... YEAH GM. Love Baseball... GO RANGERS. Am obsessed with Football... GO COWBOYS. I also don't have an issue if you like Soccer or even drive a Honda. Heck you can even play cricket for all I care.
Dave
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 10:59 AM
> Vast numbers of Americans, as shown in the
> recent congressional elections are not
> behind George and his "ugly
> American" tactics.
> Speak for ONLY for yourself, not for me.
> Marlboro
NOT for doing what the demoncrats are up to, a unilateral pullout without victory. Not everything is VietNam, as much as Kerry, Clinton, and Biden want it to be. A majority of American ARE for finishing the job. A LARGE majority of Americans WERE for the Iraq effort, and so were the spineless Senators now clamoring for defeat. It's so easy to sit back and throw stones at the Commander in Chief. What's difficult for these imbeciles, is to come up with any idea that doesn't involve our defeat.
marlboro
03-29-2007, 11:58 AM
Pete,
You need to read the polls...... And no, this is not Vietnam. Its a much much bigger quagmire. And quite honestly the only reason we're there is because of the oil. We can't leave, whether we "win" or not, unless we can preserve our access to Iraq's oil fields.
If there was no oil in Iraq, we would not have found a reason to be there. What has happened there has happened many places in the world and we never seemed to care. But with the oil involved, and the fact that the oil is running out and will eventually run out, our strategic interests mean that we need not be cut out of the oil reserves when we use 25% of the worlds energy.
Its all about OIL. This was the first OIL war. By the time its runs out in the next 50 years, there will be many more oil wars. We will have some other reason, high falutin' or not at first, but by the end, it will be just about oil.
Marlboro
We've got a guy who had lost a loved one. Let's leave this for another day.
Andy:
When you live next door, you learn from birth that lots of subjects are NOT open for discussion. Not the irreverant aussie way, I know. To most Americans, being an American is a religion.......
Dick
jonpike
03-29-2007, 12:23 PM
> Yeah, and China is right behind them. BUY
> AMERICAN!
Or is that "BUY (goods imported from China, by the richest man in the world, who happens to be an) AMERICAN!!!"
Viva Sam and the Wall Mart Way!!!
;-) (<--- wink and smile, indicating a joking, sarcastic manner... statements made not necessicarily the true thoughts and feelings of the person posting)
robertcottiers
03-29-2007, 12:45 PM
> We've got a guy who had lost a loved one.
> Let's leave this for another day.
Ken: I am also shocked by the insensitivity of people...
Thanks for the post
Bob C.
jonpike
03-29-2007, 12:48 PM
> The troops who offer their lives to serve
> our country are noble people. Critiques of
> the decisions politicians make over their
> lives is not a negative reflection of the
> good that these fine individuals represent.
> There is no doubt in my mind that they are
> doing the best they can.
I am sorry that I didn't read farther down this post before posting my even indirectly sarcastic post.
I am very much with Ken on the matter of support of our troops, and what they do. I may differ with the decisionmakers, and how they came to their decisions, but that dosen't make me any less supportive of the difficult job they do willingly. Or any less American.
Dave, you have my deep sympathies on the loss of your nephew. He knowingly put himself on the line, in a dangerous situation, to help do some good. That's what you call a good man.
> Andy:
> When you live next door, you learn from
> birth that lots of subjects are NOT open for
> discussion. Not the irreverant aussie way, I
> know. To most Americans, being an American
> is a religion.......
> Dick
This makes me think about how culture and attitudes differ country to country. Watch a few British films made during WWII, and about the war. Many of the films maintain a sense of humor and perhaps even more amazing, almost an even handedness about the war, even while London was being bombed. It's hard for many Americans to fathom this, but the evidence is right there to see in the films.
I'm not passing any judgement, or telling anyone how they should feel, but merely expressing fascination.
Rod
marlboro
03-29-2007, 01:26 PM
While certainly Dave Thomas' issue is a sad thing to have happened, and we can all recognize that, and I'm sure that everyone here with any shred of caring understands. However, the posts on this off topic discussion are not about him and his sad day.
They started as a humorous discussion on the often inept characteristics of the current Resident, put in a very funny article. And then it morphed into another discussion. And then it was hijacked by the unfortunate events of DT's life and his sister and her family.
Unfortunately this sadness has now been repeated for more than 3200 times as we lose the best and the brightest for a questionable circumstance, patriotic or not. And this doesn't include the incredible heartache of those who came back without limbs or with traumatic brain injuries.
Personally I'd like to see Mike remove the whole kit and caboodle.
Marlboro
> Ken: I am also shocked by the insensitivity
> of people...
> Thanks for the post
> Bob C.
marlboro
03-29-2007, 01:37 PM
Sam Walton is not in the top 10 or 20 of the most wealthy people in the world.
His family wealth is 15 billion. And he actually died in 1992.
<A HREF="http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/10/07billionaires_The-Worlds-Billionaires_Rank.html">http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/10/07billionaires_The-Worlds-Billionaires_Rank.html</A>
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 01:53 PM
> Pete,
> You need to read the polls...... And no,
> this is not Vietnam. Its a much much bigger
> quagmire. And quite honestly the only reason
> we're there is because of the oil. We can't
> leave, whether we "win" or not,
> unless we can preserve our access to Iraq's
> oil fields.
> If there was no oil in Iraq, we would not
> have found a reason to be there. What has
> happened there has happened many places in
> the world and we never seemed to care. But
> with the oil involved, and the fact that the
> oil is running out and will eventually run
> out, our strategic interests mean that we
> need not be cut out of the oil reserves when
> we use 25% of the worlds energy.
> Its all about OIL. This was the first OIL
> war. By the time its runs out in the next 50
> years, there will be many more oil wars. We
> will have some other reason, high falutin'
> or not at first, but by the end, it will be
> just about oil.
> Marlboro
But it's about so much more, and I'm surprised you can't see it. It's about terrorist regimes who sit on top of these billions of dollars and hold the world hostage.
We're not the prime consumers of middle east oil, Europe is. The reason the French and Germans had nothing to do with this war is not because they thought it was unjust, but because they had their hand in the cookie jar (oil for food).
You can whine on and on all you want about oil. There's absolutely no evidence that we're about to run out, only conjecture. In the meanwhile, you have guys like Saddam, a known terrorist sympathiser, trainer and bankroller, along with Ahmadenijhad and the unlimited financial resources that the oil provides, sitting back and waging war on the west by proxy, all the while people with your attitude complaining and keeping us from going for our own oil which would make them less of a problem.
Face it Marlboro, this war was approved OVERWHELMINGLY by both the American people and members of Congress, half of which began to immediately criticize the effort to boost their standing among the kook fringe (Move-On types) by equating our soldiers with Nazis, our leaders with Hitler, and describing the terrorists as "insurgents, not unlike George Washington" instead of calling them what they are, anarchist Jihadists with a focus on the destruction of anything not Sharia.
Get a grip on reality here and see the situation for what it is. These people have been at war with us for over 30 years. When are you going to realize it?
marlboro
03-29-2007, 02:12 PM
Even I, a traditional Quaker Peacenik, believed what Bush said about imminent danger of weapons of Mass destruction: FIVE YEARS AGO!
And as such most people in the USA believed him. But now that's been shown to have been fabrication based on very thin data.
So sure its more complicated, but much of the complication has been caused by the USA meddling in places it doesn't belong. and the history of how badly we've done it since bombing the crap out of their infrastructure is already written.
How many Iraqi's were killed by SH? maybe 100,000. How many have died since we got involved? Many many many more. How much of Iraq was destroyed by SH? Answer: none How much has been bombed into the stone age since we got involved? Answer is called Awe and ? How much has been rebuilt for the Iraqi's? Damn little. Its a mess, and its a lot more of a mess for the poor Iraqi citizen than it was before we got involved.
However this is not the place to argue this... So I have nothing more to say.
Thanks for the discussion, though.
Marlboro
unknownuser
03-29-2007, 02:19 PM
> George's war? You mean the one Hillary and
> Kerry voted for? And demanded to vote for a
> second time?
> Puhhhlleeeeeezzzzeee
...inflamitory.
Puhhhlleeeeeezzzeeeeeeeeee........... take the blinders off! Have you seen the news lately? Pretty obvious G-Dub doesn't play well with others, nor does he play by the rules. The revolving door in Washington is a joke. And to Mr. Thomas -- God Bless America? Are you on crack? More like "God Judge America". This country is sick. You are so deceived.
(Originally posted by: Hillary)
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 02:21 PM
> Even I, a traditional Quaker Peacenik,
> believed what Bush said about imminent
> danger of weapons of Mass destruction: FIVE
> YEARS AGO!
> And as such most people in the USA believed
> him. But now that's been shown to have been
> fabrication based on very thin data.
A fabrication? BS!!! Every intelligence agency in the world agreed with our own. Get off this fabrication crap and stick to reality. The fact is we are there and we need to win. End of story. We don't need to pull out, we need to defeat the enemy.
> So sure its more complicated, but much of
> the complication has been caused by the USA
> meddling in places it doesn't belong. and
> the history of how badly we've done it since
> bombing the crap out of their infrastructure
> is already written.
Oh please. I guess you never heard of the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, the USS Cole, the African Embassies . . . . Pull your head out of the sand.
> How many Iraqi's were killed by SH? maybe
> 100,000. How many have died since we got
> involved? Many many many more. How much of
> Iraq was destroyed by SH? Answer: none How
> much has been bombed into the stone age
> since we got involved? Answer is called Awe
> and ? How much has been rebuilt for the
> Iraqi's? Damn little. Its a mess, and its a
> lot more of a mess for the poor Iraqi
> citizen than it was before we got involved.
How do you know ANY of this is true. Do you have a clue as to how many hospitals, schools, businesses, etc have been rebuilt? And according to the poor Iraqis themselves, you don't know what you're talking about with your last statement in that group.
> However this is not the place to argue
> this... So I have nothing more to say.
Then why do you say this stuff?
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 02:23 PM
> Andy:
> When you live next door, you learn from
> birth that lots of subjects are NOT open for
> discussion. Not the irreverant aussie way, I
> know. To most Americans, being an American
> is a religion.......
> Dick
Seems like plenty of Americans these days are embarrassed to be one, and publicly say so all over the world.
Don't include me in that mix, unless you ask me if I'm embarrassed by Hollywood, or the Democrat Party (inseperable really).
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 02:24 PM
> ...inflamitory.
> Puhhhlleeeeeezzzeeeeeeeeee........... take
> the blinders off! Have you seen the news
> lately? Pretty obvious G-Dub doesn't play
> well with others, nor does he play by the
> rules. The revolving door in Washington is a
> joke. And to Mr. Thomas -- God Bless
> America? Are you on crack? More like
> "God Judge America". This country
> is sick. You are so deceived.
And you're a blithering idiot.
unknownuser
03-29-2007, 02:27 PM
> And you're a blithering idiot.
Yeah. We'll see.
(Originally posted by: Hillary)
> However this is not the place to argue
> this... So I have nothing more to say.
Good man, Marlboro. I am on your side of the debate here, but this just isn't the time to use the situation to argue either side of something that's out of our control anyway.
unknownuser
03-29-2007, 03:23 PM
> But it's about so much more, and I'm
> surprised you can't see it. It's about
> terrorist regimes who sit on top of these
> billions of dollars and hold the world
> hostage.
> We're not the prime consumers of middle east
> oil, Europe is. The reason the French and
> Germans had nothing to do with this war is
> not because they thought it was unjust, but
> because they had their hand in the cookie
> jar (oil for food).
> You can whine on and on all you want about
> oil. There's absolutely no evidence that
> we're about to run out, only conjecture. In
> the meanwhile, you have guys like Saddam, a
> known terrorist sympathiser, trainer and
> bankroller, along with Ahmadenijhad and the
> unlimited financial resources that the oil
> provides, sitting back and waging war on the
> west by proxy, all the while people with
> your attitude complaining and keeping us
> from going for our own oil which would make
> them less of a problem.
> Face it Marlboro, this war was approved
> OVERWHELMINGLY by both the American people
> and members of Congress, half of which began
> to immediately criticize the effort to boost
> their standing among the kook fringe
> (Move-On types) by equating our soldiers
> with Nazis, our leaders with Hitler, and
> describing the terrorists as
> "insurgents, not unlike George
> Washington" instead of calling them
> what they are, anarchist Jihadists with a
> focus on the destruction of anything not
> Sharia.
> Get a grip on reality here and see the
> situation for what it is. These people have
> been at war with us for over 30 years. When
> are you going to realize it?
You must be getting your information from the guys that sell the magic cables! Again, take the blinders off. You don't have clue about what you are saying.
Dude, you'll remember this exchange when you or one of your loved ones are sittin' in one of G-Dub's concentration camps.
(Originally posted by: Hillary)
> Seems like plenty of Americans these days
> are embarrassed to be one, and publicly say
> so all over the world.
> Don't include me in that mix, unless you ask
> me if I'm embarrassed by Hollywood, or the
> Democrat Party (inseperable really).
That's likely one of the most juvenile statements I've read outside the political discussion groups I frequent... no, I'm sure it is. The majority of the democrat public are fine Americans, as are the majority of republicans. When are some people gonna move past judging political parties by the actions of the few??? Do I judge republicans (being a proud democrat) by the actions of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Pearle, Rice, Gingrich, R. Murdoch, Limbaugh, Boortz, etc, etc... NO, certainly not.
If you're referring to the fact that many democrats want our troops put in harm's way only when needed... want troops engaged in places more relevant to the fight of terrorists/ism... and ARE NOT happy with Bush/Cheney/Trilateralist's manipulation of our country, citizens, soldiers, security, ect, for their personal goals of "nation building", their NWO, and their personal wealth and power... then yes, many democrats are not supportive of the GOP hierarchy's goals and agendas. Our nation is far more important than these elitists, robber barons, globalists, NeoCons, etc, etc... it's a shame so many have to suffer for the corrupt few... and that so many actually defend these amoral, immoral, or the rare misguided individuals and their deeds.
paul_n_oneal
03-29-2007, 03:46 PM
Good point Marlboro... but consider this; Vietnam actually WAS about OIL. It has now become more common knowledge; South Asia has a vast oil reserve, and the "Energy Barons" have known of it from an early time after the "industrial revolution" began. President Johnson was a "big buddy" with the Texas/etc oil/energy barons... and was hardly the "liberal" people try to make him into!
Another point... not sure how commonly this is known; but IRAN has far more OIL than does Iraq, and is a very important geographic location to the "flow of crude"... hence the interest in IRAN.
GC
> Pete,
> You need to read the polls...... And no,
> this is not Vietnam. Its a much much bigger
> quagmire. And quite honestly the only reason
> we're there is because of the oil. We can't
> leave, whether we "win" or not,
> unless we can preserve our access to Iraq's
> oil fields.
> If there was no oil in Iraq, we would not
> have found a reason to be there. What has
> happened there has happened many places in
> the world and we never seemed to care. But
> with the oil involved, and the fact that the
> oil is running out and will eventually run
> out, our strategic interests mean that we
> need not be cut out of the oil reserves when
> we use 25% of the worlds energy.
> Its all about OIL. This was the first OIL
> war. By the time its runs out in the next 50
> years, there will be many more oil wars. We
> will have some other reason, high falutin'
> or not at first, but by the end, it will be
> just about oil.
> Marlboro
jonpike
03-29-2007, 04:49 PM
> Sam Walton is not in the top 10 or 20 of the
> most wealthy people in the world.
> His family wealth is 15 billion. And he
> actually died in 1992.
Well, I stand corrected. Though I called out ol' Sam, I was referring to the Wal Mart juggernaut in general.
Not sure how they count it on that site, it would seem that there are 5 Walton heirs in the top 2 pages, all about $16.5B, so the sum total would be over $82B, if they all don't own the same 16.5.
That would beat Bill by a long shot if summed, and of course they only own a part of the whole company.
Couple years ago I heard that they announced proudly that over 70% of their goods were imported from China, with plans to go to 80-85% the following year. Good for the stockholders! Good for lower income folk to get more purchacing power per dollar! Good for China, WM is their single largest export market, over all other nations of the world.
How should/could/would we deal with that? Far too complex a question for a off topic conversation on a internet forum....
johnastockman
03-29-2007, 07:51 PM
"13. You will cease playing American football. There is only one kind of proper football; you call it soccer. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which has some similarities to American football, but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like a bunch of nancies). Don't try Rugby League, the Aussies and Kiwis will thrash you, like they regularly thrash us.
14. Further, you will stop playing baseball. It is not reasonable to host an event called the World Series for a game which is not played outside of America. Since only 2.1% of you are aware that there is a world beyond your borders, your error is understandable. You will learn cricket, and we will let you face the Aussies first to take the sting out of their deliveries."
HA! That is funnier than ****! I love it...especially #13 & 14. The English and other europeans have known for about 100 years than the proper way for men to compete is in a motorcycle race, not with sticks and/or *****! With the Queen taking over, know I can look forward to riding with motorcyclists that actually have some training, and for the four-or-more wheelers to have a bit more respect for a motorcycle...YEAH! I'm not offended at all; I'll copy this and send it to some of my friends. Thanks, Andy!
John A.
johnastockman
03-29-2007, 07:57 PM
Yeah, Hillary...better check ya'self for a snuke!
John A.
johnastockman
03-29-2007, 08:04 PM
> It was intended in the same vain as:
> "Why motorbikes are better than
> women"! etc
OK, now this is serious! :^) Motorcycles better than women? Of course they are, and I've got a list a mile long..let's see...#1 is...
OK, this is OT anyway. Why would anyone be offended by what John Cleese said? It's COMEDY, folks! Last time I checked, John hadn't become one of the great political speakers of our time in the past few weeks. Now, back to the bikes...#2 reason...
John A.
> Seems like plenty of Americans these days
> are embarrassed to be one, and publicly say
> so all over the world.
> Don't include me in that mix, unless you ask
> me if I'm embarrassed by Hollywood, or the
> Democrat Party (inseperable really).
What is your HT good for after you bomb Hollywood? Pete, you can do better. That is a short list of things to hate. I expect more from you in the future!
> NOT for doing what the demoncrats are up to,
> a unilateral pullout without victory. Not
> everything is VietNam, as much as Kerry,
> Clinton, and Biden want it to be. A majority
> of American ARE for finishing the job. A
> LARGE majority of Americans WERE for the
> Iraq effort, and so were the spineless
> Senators now clamoring for defeat. It's so
> easy to sit back and throw stones at the
> Commander in Chief. What's difficult for
> these imbeciles, is to come up with any idea
> that doesn't involve our defeat.
You’re right again. GB dropped the president label and is more into referencing to himself as the Commander in Chief these days.
> A fabrication? BS!!! Every intelligence
> agency in the world agreed with our own. Get
> off this fabrication crap and stick to
> reality. The fact is we are there and we
> need to win. End of story. We don't need to
> pull out, we need to defeat the enemy.
> Oh please. I guess you never heard of the
> World Trade Center, the Pentagon, the USS
> Cole, the African Embassies . . . . Pull
> your head out of the sand.
> How do you know ANY of this is true. Do you
> have a clue as to how many hospitals,
> schools, businesses, etc have been rebuilt?
> And according to the poor Iraqis themselves,
> you don't know what you're talking about
> with your last statement in that group.
> Then why do you say this stuff?
If the citizenry of the USA had a do over concerning the war with what we know now there is no we would be there. The public was oversold on the reasons for this war. (now remember I didn’t say we were lied to)
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 10:01 PM
> If the citizenry of the USA had a do over
> concerning the war with what we know now
> there is no we would be there. The public
> was oversold on the reasons for this war.
> (now remember I didn’t say we were lied to)
20-20 hindsight is not an attribute of a leader. It is not something one needs to acquire. It's like pinching a loaf. Everyone has it.
This COUNTRY went to war and volunteers went to go fight it at the request of our elected officials. They voted on it, not once, but twice, just to make sure we all knew that John F'ing Kerry, Mrs. Bill Clinton and the rest were all gung-ho too. One of those volunteers was a relative of a member of our PE board family. Those folks who voted to send those guys and gals to war have done everything that they could since then to talk down the effort. Never an encouraging word, just blind hatred for the man tasked with the mission that they just voted for.
How many people were ready to throw in the towel after D-Day when 6000 allies alone died on that one single day? 6 friggin thousand!!! IN ONE DAY!!!! None voiced a hesitation then. This country put politics aside for 4 years and went out and kicked the enemy's *** out of Africa, Italy, France, Phillipines, Burma and did it without second guessing every little thing, giving comfort to the enemy who is watching everything we do. When was the last time you heard the word "victory" uttered by the current Senate and house leadership? Do they even believe in victory? They voted to send these men and women to die. Why don't they do everything they can to make sure the mission is a success? Their hatred for the Commander in Chief is stronger than their respect for the office of the President of the United States. They refuse to put politics aside when it comes to this war because they don't want victory on GW's watch, and everything they've done since they voted FOR it goes against everything they sent those men and women to do.
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 10:02 PM
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 10:08 PM
> What is your HT good for after you bomb
> Hollywood? Pete, you can do better. That is
> a short list of things to hate. I expect
> more from you in the future!
Hollywood is a lot more than kick *** movies.
The face of America in much of the world is what is put out by Hollywood. They see more of Hollywood on a yearly basis than they'll ever see of our politicians. So if we have a bad image overseas, there's two major reasons.
We look like godless, oversexed money grubbers when you watch the TV shows produced in Hollywood.
Politically, we look untrustworthy. After Viet Nam, then Iran, why would anyone respect, admire, or fear us? We abandoned friends and allowed the crazies to take over. We're still paying that price today.
So, yes, the Sean Penn's and Rosie O'Donnell's have a lot to answer for as well. After all, they're in the image business.
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 10:10 PM
Some cool movies, more and more sell-out politics.
I wish he'd fight as hard against expanding government as he fought for expanding muscles.
> 20-20 hindsight is not an attribute of a
> leader. It is not something one needs to
> acquire. It's like pinching a loaf. Everyone
> has it.
> This COUNTRY went to war and volunteers went
> to go fight it at the request of our elected
> officials. They voted on it, not once, but
> twice, just to make sure we all knew that
> John F'ing Kerry, Mrs. Bill Clinton and the
> rest were all gung-ho too. One of those
> volunteers was a relative of a member of our
> PE board family. Those folks who voted to
> send those guys and gals to war have done
> everything that they could since then to
> talk down the effort. Never an encouraging
> word, just blind hatred for the man tasked
> with the mission that they just voted for.
> How many people were ready to throw in the
> towel after D-Day when 6000 allies alone
> died on that one single day? 6 friggin
> thousand!!! IN ONE DAY!!!! None voiced a
> hesitation then. This country put politics
> aside for 4 years and went out and kicked
> the enemy's *** out of Africa, Italy,
> France, Phillipines, Burma and did it
> without second guessing every little thing,
> giving comfort to the enemy who is watching
> everything we do. When was the last time you
> heard the word "victory" uttered
> by the current Senate and house leadership?
> Do they even believe in victory? They voted
> to send these men and women to die. Why
> don't they do everything they can to make
> sure the mission is a success? Their hatred
> for the Commander in Chief is stronger than
> their respect for the office of the
> President of the United States. They refuse
> to put politics aside when it comes to this
> war because they don't want victory on GW's
> watch, and everything they've done since
> they voted FOR it goes against everything
> they sent those men and women to do.
You silly boy, this is not comparable to WWII.
You got to know when you’re being tricked.
Go away.
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 10:13 PM
I answered that nonsense in post elsewhere.
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 10:16 PM
> You silly boy, this is not comparable to
> WWII.
> You got to know when you’re being tricked.
> Go away.
It's not? And just why isn't this war with Islamic Jihadists not like war against Socialist Fascists? You'll have to elaborate on that statement and tell me just why it's not.
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 10:17 PM
> You must be getting your information from
> the guys that sell the magic cables! Again,
> take the blinders off. You don't have clue
> about what you are saying.
> Dude, you'll remember this exchange when you
> or one of your loved ones are sittin' in one
> of G-Dub's concentration camps.
Thats a good one! Thanks for the laugh.
> Hollywood is a lot more than kick ***
> movies.
> The face of America in much of the world is
> what is put out by Hollywood. They see more
> of Hollywood on a yearly basis than they'll
> ever see of our politicians. So if we have a
> bad image overseas, there's two major
> reasons.
Hollywood is just the commercial entertainment establishment (read capitalist system) delivering to the public what the public demands as consumers. What’s wrong with that? That’s the market operating at maximum efficiency. Thanks for adding to the things to hate list, good work.
> We look like godless, oversexed money
> grubbers when you watch the TV shows
> produced in Hollywood.
> Politically, we look untrustworthy. After
> Viet Nam, then Iran, why would anyone
> respect, admire, or fear us? We abandoned
> friends and allowed the crazies to take
> over. We're still paying that price today.
> So, yes, the Sean Penn's and Rosie
> O'Donnell's have a lot to answer for as
> well. After all, they're in the image
> business.
> It's not? And just why isn't this war with
> Islamic Jihadists not like war against
> Socialist Fascists? You'll have to elaborate
> on that statement and tell me just why it's
> not.
Go ahead you elaborate, makes no sense to me.
> A fabrication? BS!!! Every intelligence
> agency in the world agreed with our own. Get
> off this fabrication crap and stick to
> reality. The fact is we are there and we
> need to win. End of story. We don't need to
> pull out, we need to defeat the enemy.
> Oh please. I guess you never heard of the
> World Trade Center, the Pentagon, the USS
> Cole, the African Embassies . . . . Pull
> your head out of the sand.
> How do you know ANY of this is true. Do you
> have a clue as to how many hospitals,
> schools, businesses, etc have been rebuilt?
> And according to the poor Iraqis themselves,
> you don't know what you're talking about
> with your last statement in that group.
> Then why do you say this stuff?
Yes Pete... it's called "Nation Building"... and do you know for what purpose???
GC
I heard we started it, what have you heard?
Andy_G
03-29-2007, 10:27 PM
> I wish he'd fight as hard against expanding
> government as he fought for expanding
> muscles.
What??? And now you want politicians to start taking steroids ?? ;-))
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 10:31 PM
> Hollywood is just the commercial
> entertainment establishment (read capitalist
> system) delivering to the public what the
> public demands as consumers. What’s wrong
> with that? That’s the market operating at
> maximum efficiency. Thanks for adding to the
> things to hate list, good work.
That's right. Give the consumer what they want. Then export it to the world. Then turn around and complain about how America is viewed in the world because of the dreck you send them.
I'm sorry, but the Babs and Seans and Rosies of the world can't bemoan our image abroad without shouldering some of the blame.
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 10:34 PM
> Go ahead you elaborate, makes no sense to
> me.
See, to me, war is war, regardless of who you're fighting. You don't go to war to lose, you go to war to defeat the enemy.
What part about that is too hard for you to understand.
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 10:35 PM
> Yes Pete... it's called "Nation
> Building"... and do you know for what
> purpose???
> GC
We did it in Japan, Germany, Italy, Phillipines as well as other places after WWII.
What was WWII about?
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 10:37 PM
> I heard we started it, what have you heard?
And which war would that be? I Just to be sure before I give you a history lesson.
Andy_G
03-29-2007, 10:41 PM
> This country put politics
> aside for 4 years and went out and kicked
> the enemy's *** out of Africa, Italy,
> France, Phillipines, Burma and did it
> without second guessing every little thing,
> giving comfort to the enemy who is watching
> everything we do. When was the last time you
> heard the word "victory" uttered
> by the current Senate and house leadership?
> Do they even believe in victory? They voted
> to send these men and women to die. Why
> don't they do everything they can to make
> sure the mission is a success? Their hatred
> for the Commander in Chief is stronger than
> their respect for the office of the
> President of the United States. They refuse
> to put politics aside when it comes to this
> war because they don't want victory on GW's
> watch, and everything they've done since
> they voted FOR it goes against everything
> they sent those men and women to do.
Come on Pete, WWII was a totally different scenerio. Germany and Japan had invaded these other countries in bulk, and were continuing to try to spread further. The only people that Iraq had invaded was Kuwait, where they had already been summarily kicked out of, (well done US and Allies) and there own constituents.
I am not arguing one way or another as to the war, and I fully support any troops that are over there, yours and ours. I just wish it had never had to happen. I wish there hadn't been so much hidden politcal agenda and mis-information and most of all I wish there was a sensible way of finishing it real soon !!
> That's right. Give the consumer what they
> want. Then export it to the world. Then turn
> around and complain about how America is
> viewed in the world because of the dreck you
> send them.
> I'm sorry, but the Babs and Seans and Rosies
> of the world can't bemoan our image abroad
> without shouldering some of the blame.
Then we should send Babs and Seans and Rosie there so the bad guys wont come here. We should draft them. Right?
Andy_G
03-29-2007, 10:43 PM
> See, to me, war is war, regardless of who
> you're fighting. You don't go to war to
> lose, you go to war to defeat the enemy.
That is another BIG difference between WWII and this. In WWII the enemy was very easy to identify. What is causing the real problems over there is that the enemy is very hard to identify on an individual basis.
> See, to me, war is war, regardless of who
> you're fighting. You don't go to war to
> lose, you go to war to defeat the enemy.
> What part about that is too hard for you to
> understand.
Whats stoping us? We the best!
> And which war would that be? I Just to be
> sure before I give you a history lesson.
You pick.
> We did it in Japan, Germany, Italy,
> Phillipines as well as other places after
> WWII.
> What was WWII about?
Well, it didn't turn out as the fascists had hoped... WE WON!! And that includes the traitors within the USofA, both the ones that got caught, and the ones that went on to become politicians, bankers, heads of corporations, etc, etc, etc.
And yes; "Nation Building" was/is part of the NWO... but wasn't fulfilled during WWII as hoped--but IS rapidly becoming complete today.
GC
> We did it in Japan, Germany, Italy,
> Phillipines as well as other places after
> WWII.
> What was WWII about?
Since the ‘Mission Accomplished’ we must in the Nation Building phase now.
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 10:57 PM
> Come on Pete, WWII was a totally different
> scenerio. Germany and Japan had invaded
> these other countries in bulk, and were
> continuing to try to spread further. The
> only people that Iraq had invaded was
> Kuwait, where they had already been
> summarily kicked out of, (well done US and
> Allies) and there own constituents.
Sorry Andy, but New York and Washington were attacked. When the fully packed Opera House in Sydney collapses under a plane full Aussies, maybe you'll realize that the Nazi party is no different than the Taliban, Hamas, Al Qaida, and that those groups are actively on the move, taking over countries as we speak. Iran is run by those fasicsts as was Iraq, and Afghanistan. This terroristic fascism fueled by a maniacal religious fervor is no different than what Hitler was doing prior to 1939. If you can't see it, I'm sorry.
> I am not arguing one way or another as to
> the war, and I fully support any troops that
> are over there, yours and ours. I just wish
> it had never had to happen. I wish there
> hadn't been so much hidden politcal agenda
> and mis-information and most of all I wish
> there was a sensible way of finishing it
> real soon !!
Who wishes this happened. But the war against western values, freedoms, began long ago by these maniacs. We've been fighting them by proxy for over 30 years. At least now we're fighting them on their own territory, not in the streets of Sydney or Dallas. And would you rather wait until that maniac in Iran gets a bomb? Do you really think they'll just go away if we ignore them?
WAKE UP!!! These crazies have to be DEFEATED. Wishing them away just doesn't work. How many more skyscrapers have to fall on how many more thousands of people before the world realizes that this scourge has to be dealt with, now, not in some nebulous future when this mentality gets a hold of nuclear weapons.
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 10:58 PM
> Sorry Andy, but New York and Washington were
> attacked. When the fully packed Opera House
> in Sydney collapses under a plane full
> Aussies, maybe you'll realize that the Nazi
> party is no different than the Taliban,
> Hamas, Al Qaida, and that those groups are
> actively on the move, taking over countries
> as we speak. Iran is run by those fasicsts
> as was Iraq, and Afghanistan. This
> terroristic fascism fueled by a maniacal
> religious fervor is no different than what
> Hitler was doing prior to 1939. If you can't
> see it, I'm sorry.
> Who wishes this happened. But the war
> against western values, freedoms, began long
> ago by these maniacs. We've been fighting
> them by proxy for over 30 years. At least
> now we're fighting them on their own
> territory, not in the streets of Sydney or
> Dallas. And would you rather wait until that
> maniac in Iran gets a bomb? Do you really
> think they'll just go away if we ignore
> them?
> WAKE UP!!! These crazies have to be
> DEFEATED. Wishing them away just doesn't
> work. How many more skyscrapers have to fall
> on how many more thousands of people before
> the world realizes that this scourge has to
> be dealt with, now, not in some nebulous
> future when this mentality gets a hold of
> nuclear weapons.
Come on Pete; start worrying about the bombs in our good but increasingly unstable friend Pakistan. Only a short assassination away from the bad guys getting a you know what type of bomb. Thanks A. Q. (not)
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 11:10 PM
> That is another BIG difference between WWII
> and this. In WWII the enemy was very easy to
> identify. What is causing the real problems
> over there is that the enemy is very hard to
> identify on an individual basis.
Doesn't mean you quit.
The big difference between then and now is that we shot non-uniformed combatants. POW? Don't think so. They were shot as spies after they were interrogated. We don't do that now thanks to the meddling Senate who insist that these captured non-uniformed combatants get Geneva Convention treatment.
Here's something from a history prof.
-----
Bob Parks: Black & Right | 3/28/07 | Bob Parks
Larry Schweikart, Professor of History at the University of Dayton sent me this.
"Last August, President Bush invited me and a few other military historians to spend an hour with him in the Oval Office. When I brought up this "enemy dead" issue, he shook his head and said, "I'm afraid since Vietnam and the 'body counts' we really can't even use this as a measuring stick [as far as the public was concerned].” It was a sad commentary on how out of whack things got---especially if you think (as I do) that not all Muslims are terrorists. That means there are a finite number, and we have to be getting pretty close to the bottom of the barrel.
"Since then, I've updated the numbers with refinements and calculate that a low estimate of 30,000 terrorists have been killed since 9/11, and an upperbound number of 60,000. On top of that, between 120 and 240,000 terrorists have been wounded. This is where it gets tricky. Likely because their medicine isn't as good as ours, they have a higher death rate among wounded, which probably means that instead of 1 out of 8 dying of wounds, it's more like 3 out of 8, and that number is in my first set of stats. In addition, we have captured close to 50,000 terrorists in Afghanistan and Iraq since 9/11, and since the beginning of hostilities in Iraq, using traditional desertion rates, I figure at least another 10,000 jihadists have put away the old IED and gone home.
"So, a low estimate is that we have removed from the order of battle about 210,000 on the low end to 360,000 on the high end. This is an entire generation of jihadists, and will, if nothing else, significantly feminize Muslim society."
So those who wish to tell our nation, and the world, that we are losing the war on terror are living a lie. Those who wish to use our soldiers for political gain are no better than those shooting at them on the ground.
Number don’t lie. People do.
--------
Nicely put Bob.
Andy_G
03-29-2007, 11:10 PM
So what happens next.. Invade Iran, and North Korea ??
Or perhaps we should just nuke anyone we disagree with.
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 11:13 PM
> Whats stoping us? We the best!
What is stopping us? I wonder why Barak Obama is so proud of passing a resolution to withdraw from Iraq without first succeeding Iraq?
Good question . . .
Andy_G
03-29-2007, 11:17 PM
> The big difference between then and now is
> that we shot non-uniformed combatants. POW?
> Don't think so. They were shot as spies
> after they were interrogated.
I notice you didn't say "if found guilty", but only said "after interrogated"
And I don't think you have enough room to hold everyone who is suspected terrorist for 5 years without a trial.
> Doesn't mean you quit.
> The big difference between then and now is
> that we shot non-uniformed combatants. POW?
> Don't think so. They were shot as spies
> after they were interrogated. We don't do
> that now thanks to the meddling Senate who
> insist that these captured non-uniformed
> combatants get Geneva Convention treatment.
> Here's something from a history prof.
> -----
> Bob Parks: Black & Right | 3/28/07 | Bob
> Parks
> Larry Schweikart, Professor of History at
> the University of Dayton sent me this.
> "Last August, President Bush invited me
> and a few other military historians to spend
> an hour with him in the Oval Office. When I
> brought up this "enemy dead"
> issue, he shook his head and said, "I'm
> afraid since Vietnam and the 'body counts'
> we really can't even use this as a measuring
> stick [as far as the public was concerned].”
> It was a sad commentary on how out of whack
> things got---especially if you think (as I
> do) that not all Muslims are terrorists.
> That means there are a finite number, and we
> have to be getting pretty close to the
> bottom of the barrel.
> "Since then, I've updated the numbers
> with refinements and calculate that a low
> estimate of 30,000 terrorists have been
> killed since 9/11, and an upperbound number
> of 60,000. On top of that, between 120 and
> 240,000 terrorists have been wounded. This
> is where it gets tricky. Likely because
> their medicine isn't as good as ours, they
> have a higher death rate among wounded,
> which probably means that instead of 1 out
> of 8 dying of wounds, it's more like 3 out
> of 8, and that number is in my first set of
> stats. In addition, we have captured close
> to 50,000 terrorists in Afghanistan and Iraq
> since 9/11, and since the beginning of
> hostilities in Iraq, using traditional
> desertion rates, I figure at least another
> 10,000 jihadists have put away the old IED
> and gone home.
> "So, a low estimate is that we have
> removed from the order of battle about
> 210,000 on the low end to 360,000 on the
> high end. This is an entire generation of
> jihadists, and will, if nothing else,
> significantly feminize Muslim society."
> So those who wish to tell our nation, and
> the world, that we are losing the war on
> terror are living a lie. Those who wish to
> use our soldiers for political gain are no
> better than those shooting at them on the
> ground.
> Number don’t lie. People do.
> --------
> Nicely put Bob.
At the rate people are trying to get out of Iraq we will eventually win. If we can help people get out there will only be bad guys left in the progress zone and then we can get them all.
> What is stopping us? I wonder why Barak
> Obama is so proud of passing a resolution to
> withdraw from Iraq without first succeeding
> Iraq?
> Good question . . .
BO cant stop the Commander in Chief. Thats no excuse.
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 11:23 PM
> You pick.
The Taliban in Afghanistan allowed a terrorist group to launch a military strike on the United States of America. The U. S. Congress declared war in response to that attack.
Saddam Hussein attacked Kuwait. In response, the U. S. as part of a UN force, drove Iraqi forces from Kuwait and were on the way to driving Saddam from power when a cease fire was called. Hostilities would cease as long as Saddam met the conditions of the cease fire. 14 resolutions later condemning Saddam's lack of compliance with the conditions of the cease fire, hostilities resumed, with votes from Congress, and George Bush executed the office duties in accordance with the Congressional authorization.
Is there another war I missed? There was that Bosnia thing that happened without UN sanction or Congressional approval, so I guess it doesn't really count as a war since Congress never declared one. At least this Commander in Chief sought a vote beforehand.
> I notice you didn't say "if found
> guilty", but only said "after
> interrogated"
> And I don't think you have enough room to
> hold everyone who is suspected terrorist for
> 5 years without a trial.
Andy, thats why we use other countries. And we can hold anybody forever.
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 11:25 PM
> Since the ‘Mission Accomplished’ we must in
> the Nation Building phase now.
Was meant as the removal of Saddam, not the defeat of terrorism.
The war against the Jihadi is going to take more than a few years. Get used to it.
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 11:26 PM
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 11:27 PM
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 11:27 PM
> Doesn't mean you quit.
> The big difference between then and now is
> that we shot non-uniformed combatants. POW?
> Don't think so. They were shot as spies
> after they were interrogated. We don't do
> that now thanks to the meddling Senate who
> insist that these captured non-uniformed
> combatants get Geneva Convention treatment.
> Here's something from a history prof.
> -----
> Bob Parks: Black & Right | 3/28/07 | Bob
> Parks
> Larry Schweikart, Professor of History at
> the University of Dayton sent me this.
> "Last August, President Bush invited me
> and a few other military historians to spend
> an hour with him in the Oval Office. When I
> brought up this "enemy dead"
> issue, he shook his head and said, "I'm
> afraid since Vietnam and the 'body counts'
> we really can't even use this as a measuring
> stick [as far as the public was concerned].”
> It was a sad commentary on how out of whack
> things got---especially if you think (as I
> do) that not all Muslims are terrorists.
> That means there are a finite number, and we
> have to be getting pretty close to the
> bottom of the barrel.
> "Since then, I've updated the numbers
> with refinements and calculate that a low
> estimate of 30,000 terrorists have been
> killed since 9/11, and an upperbound number
> of 60,000. On top of that, between 120 and
> 240,000 terrorists have been wounded. This
> is where it gets tricky. Likely because
> their medicine isn't as good as ours, they
> have a higher death rate among wounded,
> which probably means that instead of 1 out
> of 8 dying of wounds, it's more like 3 out
> of 8, and that number is in my first set of
> stats. In addition, we have captured close
> to 50,000 terrorists in Afghanistan and Iraq
> since 9/11, and since the beginning of
> hostilities in Iraq, using traditional
> desertion rates, I figure at least another
> 10,000 jihadists have put away the old IED
> and gone home.
> "So, a low estimate is that we have
> removed from the order of battle about
> 210,000 on the low end to 360,000 on the
> high end. This is an entire generation of
> jihadists, and will, if nothing else,
> significantly feminize Muslim society."
> So those who wish to tell our nation, and
> the world, that we are losing the war on
> terror are living a lie. Those who wish to
> use our soldiers for political gain are no
> better than those shooting at them on the
> ground.
> Number don’t lie. People do.
> --------
> Nicely put Bob.
What utter non-sense... how do they know they were "terrorists"; did they have on little arm bands or something??? And the real question is; how many REAL terrorists/jihadists have been created [in the entire muslim world] because of the Globalist's/Trilateralist's objectives??? Would this be PART of their objective??? And if so, WHY??? Does it seem reasonable that they knew of/predicted/planned this exact outcome???
GC
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 11:29 PM
> Charlie R. is for it.
He says he's for it, but he voted against it when he had the chance to vote for his own proposal.
Kind of like John Kerry who voted FOR the 80 billion before he voted against it after knowing that his no vote wouldn't matter. Yeah, real leadership there.
> The Taliban in Afghanistan allowed a
> terrorist group to launch a military strike
> on the United States of America. The U. S.
> Congress declared war in response to that
> attack.
> Saddam Hussein attacked Kuwait. In response,
> the U. S. as part of a UN force, drove Iraqi
> forces from Kuwait and were on the way to
> driving Saddam from power when a cease fire
> was called. Hostilities would cease as long
> as Saddam met the conditions of the cease
> fire. 14 resolutions later condemning
> Saddam's lack of compliance with the
> conditions of the cease fire, hostilities
> resumed, with votes from Congress, and
> George Bush executed the office duties in
> accordance with the Congressional
> authorization.
> Is there another war I missed? There was
> that Bosnia thing that happened without UN
> sanction or Congressional approval, so I
> guess it doesn't really count as a war since
> Congress never declared one. At least this
> Commander in Chief sought a vote beforehand.
Then I’ll add 41 to my hate list that you are helping me out with. 41 is just like Richard Nixon, Newt and Trent. They are all quitters. 41 should have finished the job.
The Gore Effect is the usually colder than normal weather if he comes to town.
Andy_G
03-29-2007, 11:33 PM
> Was meant as the removal of Saddam, not the
> defeat of terrorism.
> The war against the Jihadi is going to take
> more than a few years. Get used to it.
But having a large portion of your forces tied up in one place ??? I'm not at all sure this is the best way to go about it !!!
The Iraqis seem to be more fighting among themselves at the moment, very strange people. They want the Americans and others out, but aren't sensible enough to realise that if they let things settle down, let the infrastructure be rebuilt etc, then you guys would be in a position to pull out. Very odd !!!
> Was meant as the removal of Saddam, not the
> defeat of terrorism.
> The war against the Jihadi is going to take
> more than a few years. Get used to it.
It’s going to go on forever. So will the Patriot Act.
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 11:37 PM
> So what happens next.. Invade Iran, and
> North Korea ??
> Or perhaps we should just nuke anyone we
> disagree with.
How about 1 step at a time. Let's win one battle at a time. How about we start talking about winning and getting the job done?
How about we tell that little jerk that we know where he lives and that if one more IED goes off in Iraq, his house will be visited by a 500 pounder.
How about we quit ***** footing in the UN and pull our funding for the organization that continually works against us.
How about we strangle the Persian gulf and blockade Iran until it crumbles from within? It's war and Iran is a primary source for Islamic terrorists in the world and in Iraq. They just captured British soldiers in Iraqi waters and took them prisoner. Now they're holding them hostage, dressing the woman up to let us know what they have in mind for the rest of the world. Sharia law.
Andy, that's their vision, that's their goal. It's coming whether we want it or not. THEY want it and are doing everything they can to make it so. The question is, do we allow them to win or not?
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 11:40 PM
> I notice you didn't say "if found
> guilty", but only said "after
> interrogated"
> And I don't think you have enough room to
> hold everyone who is suspected terrorist for
> 5 years without a trial.
You're right about that Andy. All the more reason to dispatch them quickly.
Andy_G
03-29-2007, 11:42 PM
> You're right about that Andy. All the more
> reason to dispatch them quickly.
Wasn't that Hitler's idea with the Jews ??
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 11:45 PM
> Then I’ll add 41 to my hate list that you
> are helping me out with. 41 is just like
> Richard Nixon, Newt and Trent. They are all
> quitters. 41 should have finished the job.
41 was required by the democrats in Congress to get UN approval and submit to UN leadership.
41 should have finished the job, but was made to defer to the UN. So now, you wanted 41 to defy the UN and Congress and for his son to repeat his father's error by quitting before the job is done.
Nice.
> How about 1 step at a time. Let's win one
> battle at a time. How about we start talking
> about winning and getting the job done?
> How about we tell that little jerk that we
> know where he lives and that if one more IED
> goes off in Iraq, his house will be visited
> by a 500 pounder.
> How about we quit ***** footing in the UN
> and pull our funding for the organization
> that continually works against us.
> How about we strangle the Persian gulf and
> blockade Iran until it crumbles from within?
> It's war and Iran is a primary source for
> Islamic terrorists in the world and in Iraq.
> They just captured British soldiers in Iraqi
> waters and took them prisoner. Now they're
> holding them hostage, dressing the woman up
> to let us know what they have in mind for
> the rest of the world. Sharia law.
> Andy, that's their vision, that's their
> goal. It's coming whether we want it or not.
> THEY want it and are doing everything they
> can to make it so. The question is, do we
> allow them to win or not?
I want the names of who is materially stopping us. I know we can kick their ****. There seems to be a belief we would be done if it weren’t for a few hecklers. So who is it? Who is stopping the Commander from success?
> 41 was required by the democrats in Congress
> to get UN approval and submit to UN
> leadership.
> 41 should have finished the job, but was
> made to defer to the UN. So now, you wanted
> 41 to defy the UN and Congress and for his
> son to repeat his father's error by quitting
> before the job is done.
> Nice.
41 was the Commander in Chief. He stopped himself but be did'nt need to. We dont listen to the UN or democrats.
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 11:57 PM
> But having a large portion of your forces
> tied up in one place ??? I'm not at all sure
> this is the best way to go about it !!!
> The Iraqis seem to be more fighting among
> themselves at the moment, very strange
> people. They want the Americans and others
> out, but aren't sensible enough to realise
> that if they let things settle down, let the
> infrastructure be rebuilt etc, then you guys
> would be in a position to pull out. Very odd
> !!!
They don't want stability, they want CONTROL. If democracy and freedom take hold, the conditions that make it a breeding ground for jihadists will dissipate. That means defeat for the jihadists.
This is the perfect place to fight terrorists. They're not Iraqis for the most part. The Sunnis are Syrians, Moroccans, Saudis, Egyptians, imported from those totalitarian Islamic nations. Iraq is under assault, not from the US, but from the Islamic nutjobs in these despotic countries.
Iran is directing and bankrolling the Shiites, all designed to destabilize Iraq so no democracy takes hold. And it will take hold. Just ask the Kurds.
So the battle ground is now one of our choosing. We have the training, discipline, professionalism and tenacity in our fighting men and women to win every single battle they encounter. There is no way they can be beaten. None. Now, we just need leadership that can keep up on the character front. And we certainly aren't getting it from Pelosi, Murtha, Hagel, Reid, Kennedy, Kerry and Clinton.
Pete Schumacher ®
03-29-2007, 11:59 PM
> Wasn't that Hitler's idea with the Jews ??
Oh come on Andy. The Jews weren't flying airplanes into government buildings and raising a generation of suicide bombers.
> They don't want stability, they want
> CONTROL. If democracy and freedom take hold,
> the conditions that make it a breeding
> ground for jihadists will dissipate. That
> means defeat for the jihadists.
> This is the perfect place to fight
> terrorists. They're not Iraqis for the most
> part. The Sunnis are Syrians, Moroccans,
> Saudis, Egyptians, imported from those
> totalitarian Islamic nations. Iraq is under
> assault, not from the US, but from the
> Islamic nutjobs in these despotic countries.
> Iran is directing and bankrolling the
> Shiites, all designed to destabilize Iraq so
> no democracy takes hold. And it will take
> hold. Just ask the Kurds.
> So the battle ground is now one of our
> choosing. We have the training, discipline,
> professionalism and tenacity in our fighting
> men and women to win every single battle
> they encounter. There is no way they can be
> beaten. None. Now, we just need leadership
> that can keep up on the character front. And
> we certainly aren't getting it from Pelosi,
> Murtha, Hagel, Reid, Kennedy, Kerry and
> Clinton.
We can win by using only a small fraction of what a sub has on board. Again who is stopping the Commander in Chief from finishing up the job? We are the best.
get Toyta to build a Prius plant there to jump start thier economy.
Andy_G
03-30-2007, 12:12 AM
So by invading Iraq, we have basically made it the target of all the states around it, which have HUGE populations and are capable of breeding and training a continual supply of combatants for millenia to come.
And you seriously think you can "win" this way ??????
check the recent straight up increase in carbon/etc in the atmosphere. But not from solar activity... the 11 yr cycle just passed "dead bottom" in 2006!!
GC
Pete Schumacher ®
03-30-2007, 12:27 AM
> So by invading Iraq, we have basically made
> it the target of all the states around it,
> which have HUGE populations and are capable
> of breeding and training a continual supply
> of combatants for millenia to come.
You missed the logical fallacy. If they all keep breeding their kids for suicide missions, pretty soon, they'll be too old to have more and the entire race would cease. But I do know what you mean.
> And you seriously think you can
> "win" this way ??????
We win Andy, when the desire for the freedom that comes with a fruitful society overwhelms the desire to blow yourself up.
The longer freedom and economic development have a chance to thrive, the better our chances of breaking the cycle. And the only way for that to happen is to first get rid of the dictator so that the little guy has a chance. How long will it take? Don't know. I think we still have troops in Germany and Japan and Korea if I'm not mistaken. So it may take a while if history is any measure.
The main thing is not wavering in our determination to win. Success upon success upon success, one school, one hospital, one water treatment plant, one election, then another and another. Pretty soon, the desire to live and see your grandchildren will be stronger than the desire to see your child atomized with a bomb strapped to his pants.
Pete Schumacher ®
03-30-2007, 12:35 AM
> check the recent straight up increase in
> carbon/etc in the atmosphere. But not from
> solar activity... the 11 yr cycle just
> passed "dead bottom" in 2006!!
> GC
If the US were to be wiped off the face of the earth tomorrow, the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere wouldn't change even 1%.
Termites produce more greenhouse effect than all the CO2 output of mankind combined.
Cow flatulence exceeds carbon emissions from humans in total greenhouse effect.
CO2 is NOT a main factor in greenhouse effects. Methane has far more effect and dwarfs the effect of carbon.
It's a myth that mankind has caused recent warming. Warming has always produced higher CO2 levels. It's natural. Warm water dissolves less gas. The ocean takes a long time to warm up and a long time to cool off. When it's warmer, there's more water vapor in the air, adding to the greenhouse effect. When the ocean is cooler is absorbs more CO2 and water vapor levels reduce, adding to cooling. It's a natural cycle and will continue whether we drive cars or not.
Andy_G
03-30-2007, 01:00 AM
> CO2 is NOT a main factor in greenhouse
> effects. Methane has far more effect and
> dwarfs the effect of carbon.
The largest factor is in fact water vapour !!
Andy_G
03-30-2007, 01:02 AM
Provided Link: http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html
Andy_G
03-30-2007, 01:17 AM
..it gets "conveniently" left out of a lot of reports (and films) ;-))
> If the US were to be wiped off the face of
> the earth tomorrow, the amount of CO2 in the
> atmosphere wouldn't change even 1%.
> Termites produce more greenhouse effect than
> all the CO2 output of mankind combined.
> Cow flatulence exceeds carbon emissions from
> humans in total greenhouse effect.
> CO2 is NOT a main factor in greenhouse
> effects. Methane has far more effect and
> dwarfs the effect of carbon.
> It's a myth that mankind has caused recent
> warming. Warming has always produced higher
> CO2 levels. It's natural. Warm water
> dissolves less gas. The ocean takes a long
> time to warm up and a long time to cool off.
> When it's warmer, there's more water vapor
> in the air, adding to the greenhouse effect.
> When the ocean is cooler is absorbs more CO2
> and water vapor levels reduce, adding to
> cooling. It's a natural cycle and will
> continue whether we drive cars or not.
Wrong as usual, Pete!! Instead of showing you all the info/graphs I use in the political dscussion groups, I'll let you figure this out for yourself... and that is simple by checking the conditions of VENUS. Granted, it is closer to the Sun than Earth, but Mercury is considerably closer, yet Venus is much hotter... how could this be??? It's called "greenhouse effect"... and what causes it??? And how drastic is this effect on the planet???
GC
> 41 was required by the democrats in Congress
> to get UN approval and submit to UN
> leadership.
> 41 should have finished the job, but was
> made to defer to the UN. So now, you wanted
> 41 to defy the UN and Congress and for his
> son to repeat his father's error by quitting
> before the job is done.
> Nice.
The same thing is going on with Alberto. The pukes simply don’t understand that he serves at the Commander in Chiefs pleasure, period. The pukes think somehow they have some business in this decision when they don’t, its up to the Decider. So I have to laugh with a sigh when the pukes think they have something to do with it. Anybody subpoenaed to appear in front of those pukes should take the 5th and not take the ‘gaming the system’ bait that will land them in jail for nothing. (Scooter was treated like a Soviet citizen thrown in the gulag simply for being a good American) The pukes don’t understand we are at war. No matter what, Alberto should not quit unless the Commander in Chief asks him to. Well that’s unless the VP talks him into it. As for the pukes Black Water should round them up and put them in their own ‘safe and secure location’ simply because they don’t get it. And let the remainder of the pukes that are on the sideline try to figure out what happened, that would raise their IQ.
This is the best country in the world and may GOD bless it, and not any other country except for the ones that are with us.
Why do people like Tommy Franks and sooo many others retire (quit) and move on? Why have lots of the advisors (neocons) that ‘had’ all the answers that got us where we are today also moved on. Wish I could remember all the names, but it’s a long list. Don’t they know were at war and will be for a long time somewhere. Perhaps hey have different priorities. Where have I heard 'different priorites' before. Oh, from the brave folks.
> Well, I stand corrected. Though I called out
> ol' Sam, I was referring to the Wal Mart
> juggernaut in general.
> Not sure how they count it on that site, it
> would seem that there are 5 Walton heirs in
> the top 2 pages, all about $16.5B, so the
> sum total would be over $82B, if they all
> don't own the same 16.5.
> That would beat Bill by a long shot if
> summed, and of course they only own a part
> of the whole company.
> Couple years ago I heard that they announced
> proudly that over 70% of their goods were
> imported from China, with plans to go to
> 80-85% the following year. Good for the
> stockholders! Good for lower income folk to
> get more purchacing power per dollar! Good
> for China, WM is their single largest export
> market, over all other nations of the world.
> How should/could/would we deal with that?
> Far too complex a question for a off topic
> conversation on a internet forum....
Ethical purchasing/trade laws -
We shouldn't, and can't, compare wages here and wherever to be the determinant on whether we market anything, if a house costs 250K here and 20K there as an example, wages are sorta irrelevant. But we could establish a system where a manufacturer builds to certain standards of worker safety, environmental responsibility and lack of government subsidization. This would eliminate products from areas where the factory is powered by high sulfur coal and/or power is provided free to the business - fabrics must use dyes and treatments on a par with our standards, and workers work in a safe workplace. A friend who imports gifts and pottery has brought back pics of women in Nam assembling sneakers with kids playing at their feet using glues that are illegal here due to toxicity - and we are buying these shoes for stupid high prices compared to the cost of construction. North Carolina has lost most of our textile industry to abroad, where emissions we will later breathe and chemicals we will drink sooner or later are produced by workers with no health care so that I can buy underwear cheaper than I can have it cleaned! Sort of an international OSHA thing, but with no authority to stop you doing what you do, but producing a rating that certifies you as an A, B, or C producer allowing any nation to give a more open market to anyone willing to do things to a standard of their choosing. As long as all businesses in the U.S. as an example, could buy from the certified vendor of their choice competition would still be keeping the market sharp and we would be improving the conditions in the source country, we would be losing less to "outsourcing", and not ruining the planet by saying it's not our ocean, or atmosphere, etc. And to be honest, whether I have to pay 200 for a good digital player from a European or Oriental source that meets the US standards or 100 for a Chinese (or wherever the next wave takes us) player doesn't really affect my quality of life. But the fact that a certain percentage of my customer base has left the manufacturing or management fields for life in the service sector at a reduction in discretionary income does! Also consider the disadvantage our businesses face when competing with workers abroad who are covered by either national, or have no health care(and costs) at all. Our auto industry staggers under the load it has to carry because of the medical system here. Why do we build cars in Canada and Mexico and import them here when newer companies can build in America, and profitably? There is a way, it just takes leadership.
> Oh come on Andy. The Jews weren't flying
> airplanes into government buildings and
> raising a generation of suicide bombers.
There weren't terrorists there until we got there. Now Afghanistan is headed back to the Taliban and we have 10% as many forces there as in Iraq, which didn't attack us - people with addresses don't. Neocons scream Dems grow government - they don't - look at the federal budgets and check it out - they scream Dems raise taxes when they are trying to pay debts they inherit - and they use the politics of personal assasination and ring the division bell so they can divide and conquer. They reduce the federal funding for higher education (Nixon, Reagan, and Dubya) so we even outsource high tech now. They belittled Hillary for attempting to control health care costs, and they complained when she couldn't get it done (wonder why?). Dubya's daddy did things exactly right the first time - when the Smith family dog gets out of the yard and tears up your garden you chase him back to his yard, spank him, repair the fence and send the Smiths the bill. And you get the whole neighborhood to help. You don't go on his property, kill him, and say "he did it first, mommy".
As far as Berto, he, or someone may have had the right to replace those attorneys - but he lied repeatedly about the process - Clinton was impeached over parsing his response about his private life. Fair? And no, the rest of the world did not KNOW Saddam had WMDs - 99 percent of the world said he didn't including most American intelligence. We knew he had mustard gas, Rummy still had the receipts! The only reason Saddam couldn't fling the doors open and get us and the UN off his back was that if the Iranians had known for sure he was effectively out of bullets THEY would have taken him out. Or the Shiia or the Kurds - he had plenty of enemies without us.
Someone needs to get a fact, and a grip.
Pete Schumacher ®
03-30-2007, 05:58 PM
> Wrong as usual, Pete!! Instead of showing
> you all the info/graphs I use in the
> political dscussion groups, I'll let you
> figure this out for yourself... and that is
> simple by checking the conditions of VENUS.
> Granted, it is closer to the Sun than Earth,
> but Mercury is considerably closer, yet
> Venus is much hotter... how could this be???
> It's called "greenhouse effect"...
> and what causes it??? And how drastic is
> this effect on the planet???
> GC
GC, I've forgotten more about Physics, Thermodynamics, and History than you'll probably ever know.
Do you understand that Methane is far more odious a greenhouse gas than CO2? Do you realize that Termites alone contribute far more to the greenhouse effect than human beings do by burning oil and coal?
These are facts you can check for yourself.
In the meanwhile, keep your hysteria about the biggest hoax in history to yourself. Until you turn off all your lights and start pedaling to work everyday, I won't believe that you really believe it, because if you did really believe we're doomed unless we change, you'd change.
Pete Schumacher ®
03-30-2007, 06:19 PM
> There weren't terrorists there until we got
> there.
You're deluded. Iraq was run by a terrorist. Iraq had terrorist training camps. Saddam was paying $25000 to the families of successful suicide bombers in Israel. Saddam had Salman Pak training ground which taught the tactics of hijacking aircraft. There were plenty of terrorists in Iraq, and Saddam was in violation of the 14th resolution against him since the cease fire. When is enough, enough?
> Now Afghanistan is headed back to the
> Taliban and we have 10% as many forces there
> as in Iraq, which didn't attack us - people
> with addresses don't. Neocons scream Dems
> grow government - they don't - look at the
> federal budgets and check it out - they
> scream Dems raise taxes when they are trying
> to pay debts they inherit - and they use the
> politics of personal assasination and ring
> the division bell so they can divide and
> conquer. They reduce the federal funding for
> higher education (Nixon, Reagan, and Dubya)
> so we even outsource high tech now. They
> belittled Hillary for attempting to control
> health care costs, and they complained when
> she couldn't get it done (wonder why?).
> Dubya's daddy did things exactly right the
> first time - when the Smith family dog gets
> out of the yard and tears up your garden you
> chase him back to his yard, spank him,
> repair the fence and send the Smiths the
> bill. And you get the whole neighborhood to
> help. You don't go on his property, kill
> him, and say "he did it first,
> mommy".
There's so many holes in that paragraph it makes swiss cheese look like Hoover Dam.
Politics of personal assassination was perfected by the Clintons and the Democrats. Look what they did to Judge Bork. Look what they did to Clarence Thomas. It's never about ideas with the Democrats since they don't have any. It's always about manufactured scandal, like these 8 or 9 attorneys getting fired. Oh the outrage!!! Clinton whacked the ENTIRE CORP at one. So what party is about personal destruction.
Federal funding for education should be ZERO!!! Where in the Constitution does it say that the Federal government has anything to do with education. If you want to keep tech jobs here, quit passing kids to the next grade who can't read and fire teachers who won't teach and kick kids out whose parents won't discipline them. Enough said.
Kennedy created the HMO fiasco with his legislation. Now he decries its abuses. Why the hell should we take their suggestions now? They're proven stupid.
I'm really at a loss to what the hell the dog reference was about, but if you're equating Fido knocking your trashcans over to Islamo-Fascists flying missiles into buildings full of people, well, that idiotic analogy speaks for itself.
> As far as Berto, he, or someone may have had
> the right to replace those attorneys - but
> he lied repeatedly about the process -
> Clinton was impeached over parsing his
> response about his private life.
Wrong history revisionist. Clinton lied under oath to a Federal Judge in a civil trial.
Fair? And
> no, the rest of the world did not KNOW
> Saddam had WMDs - 99 percent of the world
> said he didn't including most American
> intelligence.
Wrong again revisionist. And you answered this absurdity just below.
> We knew he had mustard gas,
> Rummy still had the receipts! The only
> reason Saddam couldn't fling the doors open
> and get us and the UN off his back was that
> if the Iranians had known for sure he was
> effectively out of bullets THEY would have
> taken him out. Or the Shiia or the Kurds -
> he had plenty of enemies without us.
If he did it to fool us to fool Iran, then fool us he did apparently since the worlds intelligence services came to the same conclusion: he sure looks like he's up to something, and since he won't prove he's not, he's in violation of another UN resolution.
So which is it smart guy? Do we defer to the UN or don't we? Do we believe the UN or don't we?
> Someone needs to get a fact, and a grip.
Someone needs to get fact, and get a grip.
unknownuser
03-30-2007, 06:20 PM
> What utter non-sense... how do they know
> they were "terrorists"; did they
> have on little arm bands or something??? And
> the real question is; how many REAL
> terrorists/jihadists have been created [in
> the entire muslim world] because of the
> Globalist's/Trilateralist's objectives???
> Would this be PART of their objective??? And
> if so, WHY??? Does it seem reasonable that
> they knew of/predicted/planned this exact
> outcome???
> GC
I've not read every post here, but I've read enough. Pretty amazing OT thread (amazing how gullable people are to the propoganda). But like the old adage goes: "If it looks, smells, sounds like a dog -- it's a freakin dog". America is starting to smarten up.
You are so right. What we have here today is EXACTLY what the Globalists (can you say NWO?) had in mind.
Here's my prediction: Something BIG is going down before the resident leaves his post. Can almost guarantee it. Someone wants a poleeese staate and dick tator powers before he's done. Wait and see. We're a half-step away. It's all been set up so very nicely. HLSII is the program and the next II6 is the ticket.
(Originally posted by: Hillary)
unknownuser
03-30-2007, 06:26 PM
> Thats a good one! Thanks for the laugh.
Yeah, no problem. What I can't figure out is how the heck do you fit in that teeny tiny little box you live in, and why don't you ever come out?
(Originally posted by: Hillary)
Pete Schumacher ®
03-30-2007, 07:07 PM
> Yeah, no problem. What I can't figure out is
> how the heck do you fit in that teeny tiny
> little box you live in, and why don't you
> ever come out?
We don't actually live inside the screen you see in front of you.
Now go bake some cupcakes in your E Z bake oven and let the adults talk for a while.
> I've not read every post here, but I've read
> enough. Pretty amazing OT thread (amazing
> how gullable people are to the propoganda).
> But like the old adage goes: "If it
> looks, smells, sounds like a dog -- it's a
> freakin dog". America is starting to
> smarten up.
> You are so right. What we have here today is
> EXACTLY what the Globalists (can you say
> NWO?) had in mind.
> Here's my prediction: Something BIG is going
> down before the resident leaves his post.
> Can almost guarantee it. Someone wants a
> poleeese staate and dick tator powers before
> he's done. Wait and see. We're a half-step
> away. It's all been set up so very nicely.
> HLSII is the program and the next II6 is the
> ticket.
The thing I can’t figure out with our President eroding the balance of power between the 3 branches of government is what will happen when democrats get elected? Doesn’t the GOP think they will ever loose? Makes me worry about those new fangled paper tail less touch screen voting machines that Mr. Bush’s good friend makes.
> There weren't terrorists there until we got
> there. Now Afghanistan is headed back to the
> Taliban and we have 10% as many forces there
> as in Iraq, which didn't attack us - people
> with addresses don't. Neocons scream Dems
> grow government - they don't - look at the
> federal budgets and check it out - they
> scream Dems raise taxes when they are trying
> to pay debts they inherit - and they use the
> politics of personal assasination and ring
> the division bell so they can divide and
> conquer. They reduce the federal funding for
> higher education (Nixon, Reagan, and Dubya)
> so we even outsource high tech now. They
> belittled Hillary for attempting to control
> health care costs, and they complained when
> she couldn't get it done (wonder why?).
> Dubya's daddy did things exactly right the
> first time - when the Smith family dog gets
> out of the yard and tears up your garden you
> chase him back to his yard, spank him,
> repair the fence and send the Smiths the
> bill. And you get the whole neighborhood to
> help. You don't go on his property, kill
> him, and say "he did it first,
> mommy".
> As far as Berto, he, or someone may have had
> the right to replace those attorneys - but
> he lied repeatedly about the process -
> Clinton was impeached over parsing his
> response about his private life. Fair? And
> no, the rest of the world did not KNOW
> Saddam had WMDs - 99 percent of the world
> said he didn't including most American
> intelligence. We knew he had mustard gas,
> Rummy still had the receipts! The only
> reason Saddam couldn't fling the doors open
> and get us and the UN off his back was that
> if the Iranians had known for sure he was
> effectively out of bullets THEY would have
> taken him out. Or the Shiia or the Kurds -
> he had plenty of enemies without us.
> Someone needs to get a fact, and a grip.
Pete sees the world as he chooses to. There will be no consideration of others thoughts except to tell others where they are wrong, uninformed or plain just don’t get it. Very few are as smart as he. And he feels much safer with a gun and being part of a group where the thinking is consistent between individuals.
http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/img/climate/globalwarming/sio-mlgr.gif
Pete Schumacher ®
03-31-2007, 12:02 AM
What's it mean? Is that due to warming? Or is it the cause of warming? You can't tell from that pretty little graph.
It is illogical to assume that rising carbon creates warming, when water vapor and methane are both far more effective greenhouse gases. Add to that the fact that 1000 years ago, vineyards grew in England, Greenland hosted settlements, and that warming was long before SUVs.
So again, pretty graph that shows CO2 levels accompanying general warming. Most of that can be explained by the ocean's ability to dissolve gases over temperature. To leap to the conclusion that CO2 is the cause and that we are the cause for the CO2 is so just unscientific. The earth is far more complex a feedback system than any stupid super dooper pooper scooper terabyte petaflop terahertz computer and software will ever be able to accurately respresent. To use unproven computer models to predict 50 years out and then recommend a course of action to avert the inevitable result is just ludicrous.
And Al Gore and John Travolta know it. Otherwise if they really believed it, they'd quit flying and driving immediately.
> What's it mean? Is that due to warming? Or
> is it the cause of warming? You can't tell
> from that pretty little graph.
> It is illogical to assume that rising carbon
> creates warming, when water vapor and
> methane are both far more effective
> greenhouse gases. Add to that the fact that
> 1000 years ago, vineyards grew in England,
> Greenland hosted settlements, and that
> warming was long before SUVs.
> So again, pretty graph that shows CO2 levels
> accompanying general warming. Most of that
> can be explained by the ocean's ability to
> dissolve gases over temperature. To leap to
> the conclusion that CO2 is the cause and
> that we are the cause for the CO2 is so just
> unscientific. The earth is far more complex
> a feedback system than any stupid super
> dooper pooper scooper terabyte petaflop
> terahertz computer and software will ever be
> able to accurately respresent. To use
> unproven computer models to predict 50 years
> out and then recommend a course of action to
> avert the inevitable result is just
> ludicrous.
> And Al Gore and John Travolta know it.
> Otherwise if they really believed it, they'd
> quit flying and driving immediately.
Well, one thing is certain; me and you don't know the exact dynamics of the current warming, but it would be "illogical" to conclude that carbon dioxide release from deforestation, 24/7/365 fuel consumption, and the loss of carbon storage, isn't the major contributor to the post "industrial revolution" and all it has brought in the form of environmental degradation.
Weather changes, temperature extremes, changes in arid/vegetated land, etc, etc, are not signs of warming or cooling in-of-itself, it's AVERAGE worldwide conditions that reflect climate/changes. All the data shows Methane to be a far lesser contributor than CO2 [on Earth], and plays no practical role at all on Venus... so I don't see the point of mentioning it over 'n' over--Mr. Gore.
:-)
GC
unknownuser
03-31-2007, 03:27 PM
> We don't actually live inside the screen you
> see in front of you.
> Now go bake some cupcakes in your E Z bake
> oven and let the adults talk for a while.
Just when I'm certain that you're a crusty religious (wrong) right guy, you amaze me with something genuinely funny!
(Originally posted by: Hillary)
unknownuser
03-31-2007, 03:43 PM
And I thought you were one of the measurement guys.
Ice core samples going back tens of thousands of years PROVE beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is a direct (causation) correlation between rising atmospheric CO2 and temperature. Furthermore, there has never been higher concentrations of CO2 in our atmosphere than there is right now. That's encompasing data going back over several natural "cycles" and nearly 100,000 years. Yeah, maybe a small chance that it's not the CO2, but the evidence is overwhelming. Furthermore, the vast majority of the world science community is in agreement that CO2 is the problem and the modern industrial world is to blame.
Pete, buddy, you've got an agenda. It's pretty obvious. Clear your head and think straight. Consider the facts. Your beliefs are as ridiculous as the majic cable folks'.
(Originally posted by: Hillary)
> How about 1 step at a time. Let's win one
> battle at a time. How about we start talking
> about winning and getting the job done?
> How about we tell that little jerk that we
> know where he lives and that if one more IED
> goes off in Iraq, his house will be visited
> by a 500 pounder.
> How about we quit ***** footing in the UN
> and pull our funding for the organization
> that continually works against us.
> How about we strangle the Persian gulf and
> blockade Iran until it crumbles from within?
> It's war and Iran is a primary source for
> Islamic terrorists in the world and in Iraq.
> They just captured British soldiers in Iraqi
> waters and took them prisoner. Now they're
> holding them hostage, dressing the woman up
> to let us know what they have in mind for
> the rest of the world. Sharia law.
> Andy, that's their vision, that's their
> goal. It's coming whether we want it or not.
> THEY want it and are doing everything they
> can to make it so. The question is, do we
> allow them to win or not?
I want the names of who is materially stopping us. I know we can kick their ****. There seems to be a belief we would be done if it weren’t for a few hecklers. So who is it? Who is stopping the Commander from success?
Pete Schumacher ®
03-31-2007, 07:47 PM
> I want the names of who is materially
> stopping us. I know we can kick their ****.
> There seems to be a belief we would be done
> if it weren’t for a few hecklers. So who is
> it? Who is stopping the Commander from
> success?
The Constitution? The President needs Congress to declare war on Iran to be within the Constitutional bounds of his office. That Congress is now trying to purposefully lose the war in Iraq by demanding a pullout timetable instead of demanding victory.
Next question.
Pete Schumacher ®
03-31-2007, 07:59 PM
> And I thought you were one of the
> measurement guys.
> Ice core samples going back tens of
> thousands of years PROVE beyond a shadow of
> a doubt that there is a direct (causation)
> correlation between rising atmospheric CO2
> and temperature. Furthermore, there has
> never been higher concentrations of CO2 in
> our atmosphere than there is right now.
> That's encompasing data going back over
> several natural "cycles" and
> nearly 100,000 years. Yeah, maybe a small
> chance that it's not the CO2, but the
> evidence is overwhelming. Furthermore, the
> vast majority of the world science community
> is in agreement that CO2 is the problem and
> the modern industrial world is to blame.
That's where you're conclusion is absolutely ridiculous. Warming and CO2 go hand in hand. But you assume that the CO2 causes the warming, and that's where you have made a leap of faith revealing your agenda, control of the economy through taxation of carbon usage. It's all nonsense. You can't assume that CO2 levels are causing the warming.
During the cooling 30+ years ago, when these same "scientists" were bloviating about the coming ice age, CO2 output was ramping up like never before after WWII. That alone shows you can't blame CO2 for climate. The one to one correlation you are looking for that puts the blame on man as the cause just isn't there. Man is not in control of total CO2 levels in the atmosphere. We only contribute a fraction of one of the lesser contributors.
As oceans warm, gases come out of solution, including CO2 and water vapor. When the oceans cool, they'll dissolve more CO2 and produce less water vapor, both things lining up perfectly with the warming scenario too. But there is insufficient data to make the claim that the tiny additional CO2 we contribute has anything to do with warming. It can easily be argued that in fact, there is more evidence pointing the other direction, that warming produces those effect, and since they have a positive impact on each other, slight changes in the sun over time will cause larger variations. The system low-pass function has a high Q roll-off.
Take your green agenda and the socialists that come with it and go back to Europe. You'll have to think of another way to cripple the US because more and more people aren't buying the hype. You can only cry wolf so long before everyone becomes deaf to the noise.
> The Constitution? The President needs
> Congress to declare war on Iran to be within
> the Constitutional bounds of his office.
> That Congress is now trying to purposefully
> lose the war in Iraq by demanding a pullout
> timetable instead of demanding victory.
> Next question.
This was supposed to be a short order done deal on the cheap. Remember Dicks ‘dead enders’? And Rummie’s explaining things by saying there are things not knowable. So here we are years later going deeper in debt. I do hope the surge works. But your answer didn’t explain what has stopped us from our victory up to this point as they are still funded at this time. In my opinion we can win if we are willing to stay the course but public opinion is fading quickly so it will become more of a political issue.
So again, up to this point who or what has stopped us? We have better equipment, better technology and better training. As a taxpayer I’m not getting my moneys worth. This is a nation that was armed to take on the Soviets. A much smaller country with very limited military resources should be a push over.
So what exactly is the hold up?
> Someone wants a
> poleeese staate and dick tator powers before
> he's done. Wait and see. We're a half-step
> away. It's all been set up so very nicely.
> HLSII is the program and the next II6 is the
> ticket.
I was actually worried about this issue just prior to Junior's "re-election", but then I realized what his second term really meant to him.
All his life living under the enormous shadow his father cast (served admirably, Yale football team, extraordinarily accomplished man with a brief period of being the most highly-approved president in American history), Junior (dodged draft, Yale cheerleading team, graduated with a meager 2.2GPA despite Yale's liberal grade inflation, miserable drunk working on oil rigs most of adult life) finally got a chance to do one thing his father could not: get re-elected.
When I finally realized that this was the real dynamic I was no longer worried about whether or not Democracy was going to survive on this continent past 2008. The fact that all the public fear-mongering and mudslinging ended immediately after his "re-election" confirmed my suspicion. Junior will leave office at the end of his second term. He will do so willingly. Unfortunately, nothing will make him leave earlier.
> If the US were to be wiped off the face of
> the earth tomorrow, the amount of CO2 in the
> atmosphere wouldn't change even 1%.
> Termites produce more greenhouse effect than
> all the CO2 output of mankind combined.
> Cow flatulence exceeds carbon emissions from
> humans in total greenhouse effect.
> CO2 is NOT a main factor in greenhouse
> effects. Methane has far more effect and
> dwarfs the effect of carbon.
Almost all of Earth's black-body radiation (read: heat) is emitted between the wavelengths of 8,000-20,000nm. Methane has no absorption in this range. This is a consequence of C-H bond length and angle resonance. Even if it did have such absorption, the percent-absorption of C-H bonds is inherantly weaker than that of C=O bonds. Finally, methane's concentration in the atmosphere is about 1/1000 that of CO2. The claim by right-wing pundits that methane could possibly contribute to global warming on any level whatsoever is scientifically ludicrous in three different ways. It is political propaganda, lies created by political interest groups to deceive the American public, just like all these other claims you've presented above. Someday you're just going to have to acknowledge this truth about your chosen sources of information, and you will be a much wiser man when you do.
Only two gases in our atmosphere have absorption spectra that overlay Earth's black-body radiation by any significant degree. CO2 absorbs between 8000-9000nm and 14,000-20,000nm, and water from 16,000-24,000nm. Over 99% of the greenhouse effect that allows our planet's surface temperature to maintain its 50F average is due to the presence of these two gases.
> Re: Global Warming=Carbon/etc release...
The only statement you make which happens to be true actually serves to further undermine your side of the debate. Warming does increase CO2 as well as water release into the atmosphere which also increases warming. We additionally have to factor in the degree to which pollution has diminished aquatic life, increasing the oceans' acidity and the amount of additional CO2 that will be released from that. For these reasons the warming we experience will exceed the amount incurred from our emissions alone.
Pete Schumacher ®
04-01-2007, 11:23 AM
> This was supposed to be a short order done
> deal on the cheap. Remember Dicks ‘dead
> enders’? And Rummie’s explaining things by
> saying there are things not knowable. So
> here we are years later going deeper in
> debt. I do hope the surge works. But your
> answer didn’t explain what has stopped us
> from our victory up to this point as they
> are still funded at this time. In my opinion
> we can win if we are willing to stay the
> course but public opinion is fading quickly
> so it will become more of a political issue.
I recall the President REPEATEDLY say that this was going to be a very long and difficult task due to the nature of the enemy. So your impatience with any expected pace is not due to what the President said would happen.
So why is public opinion fading? HOLY CRAP! Can't you see? When was the last time you saw the news cover some heroic action by one of our units? When was the last time they told us about the latest news of how robust the economy is becoming in Iraq, despite the violence? All you have seen in the media since Bush "stole" the election is how NOTHING Bush does is right. It's always second guessing. It's always, "what do the French think?" It's NEVER about how we are KICKING THEIR ***** every time they pop their heads up. All we hear about is the latest casualty on our side, as though it was for nothing at all. People get weary with news that is always bad, and that is the intent of the big media, to talk down this President to get power back to the Democrats. The only time the word victory is ever uttered by the Democrat leadership these days is when they're talking down the President.
> So again, up to this point who or what has
> stopped us? We have better equipment, better
> technology and better training. As a
> taxpayer I’m not getting my moneys worth.
> This is a nation that was armed to take on
> the Soviets. A much smaller country with
> very limited military resources should be a
> push over.
Talk to Congress. Ask Reid and Pelosi why they are doing everything they can to sabotage our efforts over there by threatening to quit. What the hell is that nonsense? Why would you tell the enemy, "just hang on for another year and you can have it."
What MORONS!!! Whoever votes idiots like these into office should be ashamed. Pelosi, Reid, they should both be tried for treason.
> So what exactly is the hold up?
Idiocy. Idiocy and cowardice. Idiocy, cowardess, and naked avarice. The Democrat leadership has not done ANYTHING to help the effort in Iraq, that THEY authorized. All they've done is denegrate the mission and the Commander in Chief. That propaganda goes around the world, including the terrorists, who sit back and laugh at how their willing accomplices in the Democrat party enable their cause. And these idiots did it all to have power, not to make decisions that will advance the mission, but to end it and hand victory to the enemy.
Traitorous . . .
Pete Schumacher ®
04-01-2007, 11:43 AM
> Almost all of Earth's black-body radiation
> (read: heat) is emitted between the
> wavelengths of 8,000-20,000nm. Methane has
> no absorption in this range. This is a
> consequence of C-H bond length and angle
> resonance. Even if it did have such
> absorption, the percent-absorption of C-H
> bonds is inherantly weaker than that of C=O
> bonds. Finally, methane's concentration in
> the atmosphere is about 1/1000 that of CO2.
> The claim by right-wing pundits that methane
> could possibly contribute to global warming
> on any level whatsoever is scientifically
> ludicrous in three different ways. It is
> political propaganda, lies created by
> political interest groups to deceive the
> American public, just like all these other
> claims you've presented above. Someday
> you're just going to have to acknowledge
> this truth about your chosen sources of
> information, and you will be a much wiser
> man when you do.
I'd hardly call the National Geographic a right wing pundit. Get a grip.
<A HREF="http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/01/0111_060111_plant_methane_2.html">http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/01/0111_060111_plant_methane_2.html</A>
"Methane is considered a key greenhouse gas because it traps heat inside the Earth's atmosphere about 20 times more effectively than carbon dioxide."
From the EPA
"Each greenhouse gas differs in its ability to absorb heat in the atmosphere. HFCs and PFCs are the most heat-absorbent. Methane traps over 21 times more heat per molecule than carbon dioxide."
> Only two gases in our atmosphere have
> absorption spectra that overlay Earth's
> black-body radiation by any significant
> degree. CO2 absorbs between 8000-9000nm and
> 14,000-20,000nm, and water from
> 16,000-24,000nm. Over 99% of the greenhouse
> effect that allows our planet's surface
> temperature to maintain its 50F average is
> due to the presence of these two gases.
It's not just trapping Black body radiation, it's absorbing what comes in from the sun, most of it going into the oceans. But higher amounts of methane in the atmosphere allow it to absorb and hold more heat, not just block it from leaving. More methane, higher temperature. And forests produce methane.
> The only statement you make which happens to
> be true actually serves to further undermine
> your side of the debate. Warming does
> increase CO2 as well as water release into
> the atmosphere which also increases warming.
> We additionally have to factor in the degree
> to which pollution has diminished aquatic
> life, increasing the oceans' acidity and the
> amount of additional CO2 that will be
> released from that. For these reasons the
> warming we experience will exceed the amount
> incurred from our emissions alone.
"We additionally have to factor in" an unknown. Thereby making any result only a guess. We do know that plant growth is accelerated with elevated CO2 levels, and I would think that applies to the oceans as well. Do they factor that in? Do they factor it in ACCURATELY? We all know the answer to that one.
The whole point about this is the hysteria and predictions of doom are ludicrous, based on computer models that can't possibly factor in the incredible complexity of the terra-solar system. And to draw the conclusion that WE are the cause and somehow we can control it is folly.
Pete Schumacher ®
04-01-2007, 11:50 AM
Showing the total lack of consensus on one of the biggest hoaxes in history.
<A HREF="http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html">http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html</A>
> I recall the President REPEATEDLY say that
> this was going to be a very long and
> difficult task due to the nature of the
> enemy. So your impatience with any expected
> pace is not due to what the President said
> would happen.
> So why is public opinion fading? HOLY CRAP!
> Can't you see? When was the last time you
> saw the news cover some heroic action by one
> of our units? When was the last time they
> told us about the latest news of how robust
> the economy is becoming in Iraq, despite the
> violence? All you have seen in the media
> since Bush "stole" the election is
> how NOTHING Bush does is right. It's always
> second guessing. It's always, "what do
> the French think?" It's NEVER about how
> we are KICKING THEIR ***** every time they
> pop their heads up. All we hear about is the
> latest casualty on our side, as though it
> was for nothing at all. People get weary
> with news that is always bad, and that is
> the intent of the big media, to talk down
> this President to get power back to the
> Democrats. The only time the word victory is
> ever uttered by the Democrat leadership
> these days is when they're talking down the
> President.
> Talk to Congress. Ask Reid and Pelosi why
> they are doing everything they can to
> sabotage our efforts over there by
> threatening to quit. What the hell is that
> nonsense? Why would you tell the enemy,
> "just hang on for another year and you
> can have it."
> What MORONS!!! Whoever votes idiots like
> these into office should be ashamed. Pelosi,
> Reid, they should both be tried for treason.
> Idiocy. Idiocy and cowardice. Idiocy,
> cowardess, and naked avarice. The Democrat
> leadership has not done ANYTHING to help the
> effort in Iraq, that THEY authorized. All
> they've done is denegrate the mission and
> the Commander in Chief. That propaganda goes
> around the world, including the terrorists,
> who sit back and laugh at how their willing
> accomplices in the Democrat party enable
> their cause. And these idiots did it all to
> have power, not to make decisions that will
> advance the mission, but to end it and hand
> victory to the enemy.
> Traitorous . . .
The ‘war on terrorism’ is one thing and the war in Iraq is another. The administration intermingles their usage and meanings.
The economy isn’t doing well there if you subtract the pallets of cash loaded onto C5s and flown over there to hand out to various ministries with very little or no accounting.
The administration has done very little to communicate to the American citizenry year after year what the plan is for winning the war in Iraq other than ‘stay the course’. He also likes to start sentences with ‘you got to understand…’ as if he gets it and nobody else does.
I get my news from inside and outside of the bubble and watch TV less than one hour per week.
So other than blaming the media and a few politicians this does not explain why the guy in charge who doesn’t have to be bothered by the two influences is still in a position of not being able to explain the problem.
What is stopping us on the ground over there?
Pete Schumacher ®
04-01-2007, 03:42 PM
> The ‘war on terrorism’ is one thing and the
> war in Iraq is another. The administration
> intermingles their usage and meanings.
They're the same damn thing. What the hell do you think we're fighting and killing over there? Parking violators?
> The economy isn’t doing well there if you
> subtract the pallets of cash loaded onto C5s
> and flown over there to hand out to various
> ministries with very little or no
> accounting.
If there's little to no accounting, what makes you so sure that there are pallets of cash flowing over there?
> The administration has done very little to
> communicate to the American citizenry year
> after year what the plan is for winning the
> war in Iraq other than ‘stay the course’. He
> also likes to start sentences with ‘you got
> to understand…’ as if he gets it and nobody
> else does.
Other than stay the course, it's surrender. We're killing terrorists. We're trying to establish democracies in places where the lack of them breeds discontent, misery, and anarchy. What else do you want them to do? Everyone is big on criticism, itty bitty on suggestions.
> I get my news from inside and outside of the
> bubble and watch TV less than one hour per
> week.
Glad to hear it. But you're the exception, not the rule.
> So other than blaming the media and a few
> politicians this does not explain why the
> guy in charge who doesn’t have to be
> bothered by the two influences is still in a
> position of not being able to explain the
> problem.
The gladhanders in Washington love face time, and the more outrageous they are, the more time they get. They're NEVER CHALLENGED by the reporters. They simply run up to Bush with the next outrageous accusation and ask him what he thinks. It's so damn "high-school" its sickening. How do you explain a problem when perhaps the "problem" isn't what's being portrayed. OK, there's violence in Iraq. So what? It's THERE!!! If it wasn't there, it would be in Spain, or France, or Britain, or New York City.
I totally agree that the administration needs to do more to get the word out, but how else are they going to do it? Email everyone what the good news is? The AP, UPI, MSNBC, CBS, CNN, ABC, NYT, WP have a lockdown on what gets front page, and if it's good news for the Administration, it does not get coverage. Look at our economy. It's in incredible shape. Even with all the illegals, unemployment is at an all time low. Revenues to the Fed are way up. Do you hear it lead the news?
> What is stopping us on the ground over
> there?
Nothing is. And who says they're being stopped at all. More terrorists are dying every day.
> "Methane is considered a key
> greenhouse gas because it traps heat inside
> the Earth's atmosphere about 20 times more
> effectively than carbon dioxide."
...of propaganda. Too bad this author clearly is not a specialist in the field himself. Methane's absorption spectra is exactly as I have stated. It is scientifically implausible to claim that it has any substantial contribution to global warming when it does not even absorb at those wavelengths. It is further implausible to claim it when its relative concentration in the atmosphere is only 2 parts per million. Absolutely ridiculous.
> From the EPA
> "Each greenhouse gas differs in its
> ability to absorb heat in the atmosphere.
> HFCs and PFCs are the most heat-absorbent.
> Methane traps over 21 times more heat per
> molecule than carbon dioxide."
Junior pulled a local Utah Republican politician, with no science background and no environmental interest, from my hometown to run the EPA early in his tenior. Lots of trust I put in their desire to responsibly discuss what's going on.
> It's not just trapping Black body radiation,
> it's absorbing what comes in from the sun,
> most of it going into the oceans. But higher
> amounts of methane in the atmosphere allow
> it to absorb and hold more heat, not just
> block it from leaving. More methane, higher
> temperature. And forests produce methane.
Same issue all over again. Methane doesn't absorb those wavelengths, and at 2ppm it doesn't make an ounce of difference even IF it really did have 20x the heat capacity of CO2.
> "We additionally have to factor
> in" an unknown. Thereby making any
> result only a guess. We do know that plant
> growth is accelerated with elevated CO2
> levels, and I would think that applies to
> the oceans as well. Do they factor that in?
> Do they factor it in ACCURATELY? We all know
> the answer to that one.
Apparently we don't all know, but scientists sure do...and of course they've looked at it. Aquatic life is diminishing as a result of pollution. The acidity created by releasing CO2 due to mass biodecay in the oceans isn't helping either. And as far as accelerating plant growth, the statement is not completely false, however the data has shown that cumulative carbon fixation by plant and aquatic life combined does NOT have the ability to overcome the degree to which we emit CO2. Otherwise we would not see the changes in atmospheric CO2 levels we do. There's a reason CO2's half-life is over a hundred years.
> And to draw the
> conclusion that WE are the cause and somehow
> we can control it is folly.
No Pete, hand-wavingly dismissing the possibility is folly. A scientist looks at all variables and does not simply ignore what doesn't give him the answer he wants. But after looking at all the possible variables and contributions there are still no other viable alternative explanations. Safe to say you haven't come up with any new alternative hypotheses, right? I'm still waiting.
First off you really need to learn about what constitutes a reliable source of information. Do you see any major Universities attached to this website? Any other respectable research institutions? Nope. Wonder why that's the case? Probably not?
I guarantee you if global warming were a hoax, every Ivy League, Technical, or otherwise highly-regarded University would be desperately all over the TV trying to spill the beans first. Do you remember the immediate attention the University of Utah got however many years ago when Pons and Fleischman claimed to have discovered cold fusion? And then of course the embarassment after everybody discovered it was a big hoax. Institutional credibility and research status are primary goals of any of these schools. Without it they are nothing. And true hoaxes sure don't last long, do they? There's a reason the University of Utah is considered a third-tier school.
No reputable research institution is attaching themselves to this site. The only names I see attached looks to be a married couple, neither of whom have names followed by PhD, Masters, etc, etc. That speaks worlds when discussing any politically-charged subject.
As far as this article is concerned, well basically it's still attempting to employ similar data manipulations to what I already addressed in the last post, so I don't see much need to address most of it unless you think there's something specific to talk about. The "GWP" numbers are complete fabrications. If you really need to hear it, it is true that the substantially higher relative concentration of H2O in the lower atmosphere do overcome the fact that it has less absorbance versus CO2 in terms of the Earth's natural heat radiation, so it is the larger contributor to total greenhouse effect by absolute magnitude at lower altitudes. But the disparity is nowhere near what this article would have you believe.
But there is one thing that I think is good to note. You just made all these statements about how CO2 has no contribution to global warming and it's all about methane. But even this article, with all it's attempts to manipulate numbers to downplay the role of CO2, ultimately acknowledges that CO2 is the second-leading contributor to greenhouse effect. This being the case, why did you knowingly still go on to claim CO2 makes no contribution to greenhouse effect compared to methane? Likewise, when you claimed elsewhere in this thread that solar output is still the larger contributor when we already saw how this has been the coldest solar cycle in four decades? Why are you spreading information that you know is wrong?
Pete Schumacher ®
04-01-2007, 10:48 PM
those that pooh pooh you.
Pooh pooh you and your voodoo too.
Look Ken. The notion that we are the cause for global warming and that we're headed for catastrophe unless we change is preposterous and there's nothing in the "science" to back that up.
There's more to the radiation spectrum than the tiny bandwidth to which you continue to refer. The Sun impacts earth with a broad spectrum, warming everything with those rays. Methane absorbs more heat per molecule from the broadband radiation the sun outputs than does CO2. The sun does not heat the earth over the narrow spectrum you're fixated on.
Pete Schumacher ®
04-01-2007, 10:55 PM
Those who push the alarmist agenda have money to make. They rely on gloom predictions to get the next round of funding to further research our inevitable doom. The biggest beneficiaries of this funding are the very institutions you look to for acceptance of an idea outside the accepted paradigm. I put no particular faith in any University in this country, because they're run by leftists with a political (socialist) agenda, and they have an outcome predetermined.
Congress commissioned a multi million dollar study of the impact of acid rain on the lakes of the Appalachian and Adirondack chains. Years of research, data gathered, samples analyzed. The result? No measurable effects of supposed acid rain. The study found no evidence for what most climate and environmental priests prophesied. What was Congress action? Scrubbers for the power plants anyway, even though the multimillions of dollars spent showed no justification. Don't tell me there's no agenda. There's certainly no science.
The problem is when educated people chose not to think.
<A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_on_Public_Information">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_on_Public_Information</A>
Pete Schumacher ®
04-02-2007, 01:05 AM
> The problem is when educated people chose
> not to think.
>
> <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_on_Public_Information">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_on_Public_Information</A>
I'm not sure what you're driving at with that link.
> There's
> certainly no science.
On your side of the debate apparently. Looking at both posts it appears to me that the mechanism of greenhouse effect is too far outside your chosen discipline to expect for you to understand very quickly, and you're sufficiently determined to believe what you want that you'll keep it that way. If you feel like trying to understand it go back and look over my posts. Granted I haven't given a detailed explanation of the full mechanism but your smart enough to put the major pieces together if you feel so objectively inclined.
Andy_G
04-02-2007, 07:39 AM
the more I am Pete's side on this GW thing.
For instance... that the photo that Al Gore used, of those "poor" polar bears stranded in the ice, was actually taken about 2-3 years ago by an Australian tourist, on a cruise during the Artic summer. They were actually not far from solid ice, easy swimming distance.
But ain't it a great pic for propaganda purposes, though ! ;-))
Why would Al use it if NOT for propaganda, that is afterall what he has spent most of his life doing, misleading the public !!
Andy_G
04-02-2007, 07:42 AM
The thing that REALLY ****** me off is that now, our government is using global warming to try to justify nuclear power plants. OK by me, so long as they build the first one next to Government House !!!
> I'm not sure what you're driving at with
> that link.
I’m trying to suggest that there is state propaganda about. And of course it’s nothing new and cant be done without a cooperating media. I am having trouble correlating Hollywood and the bad media (as opposed to the good media) and not enough good news getting out with why the most powerful, best equipped country in the world hasn’t wrapped this war up or made more progress winning the hearts and minds over there.
We pay a lot of taxes for the folks at the CIA and the Pentagon to know things. I just hope the Iraq government can make some progress while we buy them time with the surge but I fear that they will squander that time by bickering among themselves.
It also seem s that day after day more former military leaders and government officials are saying things that are not positive from our stay the course point of view. This will embolden the enemy more than some wacky Hollywood type. Try to be fair about who to hate.
Pete Schumacher ®
04-02-2007, 06:41 PM
> I’m trying to suggest that there is state
> propaganda about. And of course it’s nothing
> new and cant be done without a cooperating
> media. I am having trouble correlating
> Hollywood and the bad media (as opposed to
> the good media) and not enough good news
> getting out with why the most powerful, best
> equipped country in the world hasn’t wrapped
> this war up or made more progress winning
> the hearts and minds over there.
How do you know they're not winning the hearts and minds? These terrorists are not home grown for the most part. A large percentage are from Syria, Egypt, Sudan, Libya. You get the idea. They are coming in at the behest of Syria and Iran who continue to stir up the pot to keep democracy from taking root. The problem is, you have to ACTIVELY SEARCH for what has actually happened over there, what's been accomplished, because the mass media doesn't want to report it. They have their agenda, and they're sticking to it.
So your statement about not understanding why we haven't wrapped this up is a common sentiment among the many who haven't been paying attention to what the President has repeatedly stated, that this will be a long effort. Sure, we could go in, indiscriminately lay waste to vast stretches of humanity, destroy Iran's infrastructure and bring misery to the masses, all to crush the terrorists and their sponsors, or we can enlist the populace who are sick and tired of maniacal dictators running their lives, who are willing to stand up in defiance of the anarchists by voting, enlisting in the police and services, willing to become targets of the crazies for being one of the first to stand up for their country.
How long after WWII did the US take to clean out the "insurgents". I'll tell you how long it took for the New York Times to cry doom. One year. Sound familiar? Well, we still have troops in Germany, but the doom predicted by NYT failed to materialize. Why should we listen to these socialists who always defend the dictators right to power and belittle the efforts of democracy's pioneers? It's sickening, and the trail of evidence is marked clearly through history. If the NYT is covering a socialist thug opposed to "imperial America", be it Stalin, Castro, Ortega, Gorbachev, or now Amadenijhad, the fawning coverage is vomitous.
> We pay a lot of taxes for the folks at the
> CIA and the Pentagon to know things. I just
> hope the Iraq government can make some
> progress while we buy them time with the
> surge but I fear that they will squander
> that time by bickering among themselves.
Yeah, we pay a lot to maintain an ingrained bureaucracy that persists from administration to administration. Guess what political leanings are bred into a government bureau job? I'll give you one guess, and one only. Were it me, I'd fire every single person in the State Department, here and overseas, clean out the entire rotted mess, and then I'd contract most of it out. MY policies would be carried out, not undermined by some middle meddler like Valerie Plame with their own agenda.
> It also seem s that day after day more
> former military leaders and government
> officials are saying things that are not
> positive from our stay the course point of
> view. This will embolden the enemy more than
> some wacky Hollywood type. Try to be fair
> about who to hate.
You can always find a whiner and complainer. They love the network face time and love to hear themselves talk. But there are plenty of others who do not share the gloomy outlook, but share the outlook from the outset, that this would be a long and protracted effort, not some episode of 24.
> How do you know they're not winning the
> hearts and minds? These terrorists are not
> home grown for the most part. A large
> percentage are from Syria, Egypt, Sudan,
> Libya. You get the idea. They are coming in
> at the behest of Syria and Iran who continue
> to stir up the pot to keep democracy from
> taking root. The problem is, you have to
> ACTIVELY SEARCH for what has actually
> happened over there, what's been
> accomplished, because the mass media doesn't
> want to report it. They have their agenda,
> and they're sticking to it.
> So your statement about not understanding
> why we haven't wrapped this up is a common
> sentiment among the many who haven't been
> paying attention to what the President has
> repeatedly stated, that this will be a long
> effort. Sure, we could go in,
> indiscriminately lay waste to vast stretches
> of humanity, destroy Iran's infrastructure
> and bring misery to the masses, all to crush
> the terrorists and their sponsors, or we can
> enlist the populace who are sick and tired
> of maniacal dictators running their lives,
> who are willing to stand up in defiance of
> the anarchists by voting, enlisting in the
> police and services, willing to become
> targets of the crazies for being one of the
> first to stand up for their country.
> How long after WWII did the US take to clean
> out the "insurgents". I'll tell
> you how long it took for the New York Times
> to cry doom. One year. Sound familiar? Well,
> we still have troops in Germany, but the
> doom predicted by NYT failed to materialize.
> Why should we listen to these socialists who
> always defend the dictators right to power
> and belittle the efforts of democracy's
> pioneers? It's sickening, and the trail of
> evidence is marked clearly through history.
> If the NYT is covering a socialist thug
> opposed to "imperial America", be
> it Stalin, Castro, Ortega, Gorbachev, or now
> Amadenijhad, the fawning coverage is
> vomitous.
> Yeah, we pay a lot to maintain an ingrained
> bureaucracy that persists from
> administration to administration. Guess what
> political leanings are bred into a
> government bureau job? I'll give you one
> guess, and one only. Were it me, I'd fire
> every single person in the State Department,
> here and overseas, clean out the entire
> rotted mess, and then I'd contract most of
> it out. MY policies would be carried out,
> not undermined by some middle meddler like
> Valerie Plame with their own agenda.
> You can always find a whiner and complainer.
> They love the network face time and love to
> hear themselves talk. But there are plenty
> of others who do not share the gloomy
> outlook, but share the outlook from the
> outset, that this would be a long and
> protracted effort, not some episode of 24.
Whats 24?
Pete Schumacher ®
04-02-2007, 09:01 PM
...but following politicians is not my idea of research. My discussion has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with science. I've known the mechanism of greenhouse effect for over 25 years and I've watched it's effects follow predictions pretty much to the letter across the entire time. I've watched warming trends and seen my observations clearly validated in the data by several different methods by completely independant researchers who have no interest in global warming. You can even tabulate data taken by meteorologists over the last hundred years, and big surprise you still see perfect correlation in the data. All this recent Al Gore stuff never had anything to do with my position on the issue. Actually I can't stand the guy because he supports unrestricted partial-birth abortion, which by every scientific measuring stick I can come up with is murder pure and simple. That's not an invitation to open another potentially offensive debate (and I apologize in advance if this ends up having any bearing on anyone's life as this thread inadvertently ended up crossing dthomas's), just letting you know how responsibility to TRUE science to me is the first and most fundamental priority, especially in modern issues that strain our definitions and understanding of humanity.
Anyway, I've seen plenty of photos from independant sources documenting the ecological strains on artic wildlife and authentic photos are in good supply. My suspicion is Gore and his..."people"...simply scanned the internet for photos and whimsically picked some tear-jerker without knowing where it came from and Republicans are just playing it to the hilt. That or the Republicans are outright lying...again...hardly a first in American politics. Learn what's actually working behind the real issues though and it doesn't really matter what one side says about the other. All that matters is the truth.
If you learn the mechanism of how greenhouse effect really works (which I guess is a harder process for non-chemists than I first realized, and I guess understandably so) it becomes pretty easy to sift out what's atrociously irresponsible propaganda versus legitimate science, but this discussion has shown me just how well-contrived some of these propagandists' methods really are. The overwhelming majority of people, even many educated ones, really wouldn't know how to interpret any of it. It's sad really, especially given that many of the industries that previously funded this bogus "research" are now acknowledging the truth of the issue and encouraging change. (This was an astounding surprise to me, BTW.) Yet the anti-envirnmentalist counter-culture that they have created is still a powerful influence on the American public. It's too bad because all it does is confuse and impair our ability to develop better solutions.
On that note, I understand how you don't want to deal with the issues of nuclear energy. American politics has spent the last decade or so trying to make my region of the country a primary site for nuclear waste storage and a few years ago has gotten their way. During the 80's nuclear testing under the Reagan administration happened almost exclusively just a few hundred miles south of where I live, and I spent many years listening to local news reports about disturbingly high rates of miscarriage and birth deformity as a result. Obviously the administration denied that it had any scientific connection. So I would like to think there are cleaner alternatives as well. Frankly, the whole mindset that we need to subsist on only one energy source should really be outmoded in this day and age. I would think intelligently-designed alternatives would diversify consumer options and encourage economic competition and growth. But that gets back to why Big Oil has so aggressively funded anti-envirnmentalism in the first place.
Andy_G
04-03-2007, 04:21 AM
Its almost as if following politicians is bound to lead you down the wrong path, on basically any path or issue !! I think my statement is more an anti-Gore one. If he needs to use that sort of propaganda, what else is he mis-leading people about, probably just about everything, like most politicians. That is part of their job descriptions, so it seems !!
I guess only the future will tell the real truth of the matter.
Everything I read paints a crappy picture of the war. Where should I look or listen for the ‘good’ news that has trouble getting out. And since I don’t watch much TV, I don’t have cable. For me it would be a waste of money.
Pete Schumacher ®
04-03-2007, 05:22 PM
> Everything I read paints a crappy picture of
> the war. Where should I look or listen for
> the ‘good’ news that has trouble getting
> out. And since I don’t watch much TV, I
> don’t have cable. For me it would be a waste
> of money.
But you have to make the effort to get the other side of the story.
A great place to start for links to the stuff buried by ABCNNBCBS is Rush Limbaugh. I know I'll get some HUGE groans and pooh poohs since he's such a pariah of the left-leaners. It's because he nails them so well and repeatedly and because he is so utterly successful in doing so. Rush researches the media for the other side of the story, and it's out there for you to see if you know where to look. Rush will take these people's words, and use them to show what hypocrites they are and how unaccountable they're being held by ABCNNBCBS.
Also, for all the tabloid crap on Drudge, there is the occasional link to a story that refutes the establishment line. Then of course, there are all the military blogs.
But if you can learn to read between the lines, and understand where these media *****'s are coming from, you can still paint a picture, inaccurate in detail but sufficient for general viewing. Just understand that when all they'll mention is US casualties, there must have been at least 10 times as many to the enemy.
Pete Schumacher ®
04-03-2007, 05:31 PM
Ken, global warming and CO2 levels go hand in hand, because warming increases CO2 levels, not the other way around.
It's a myth that we are the cause.
> Ken, global warming and CO2 levels go hand
> in hand, because warming increases CO2
> levels, not the other way around.
> It's a myth that we are the cause.
But you're still oversimplifying. Believe what you want on this issue. It's just as done as it was before.
> But you have to make the effort to get the
> other side of the story.
> A great place to start for links to the
> stuff buried by ABCNNBCBS is Rush Limbaugh.
> I know I'll get some HUGE groans and pooh
> poohs since he's such a pariah of the
> left-leaners. It's because he nails them so
> well and repeatedly and because he is so
> utterly successful in doing so. Rush
> researches the media for the other side of
> the story, and it's out there for you to see
> if you know where to look. Rush will take
> these people's words, and use them to show
> what hypocrites they are and how
> unaccountable they're being held by
> ABCNNBCBS.
> Also, for all the tabloid crap on Drudge,
> there is the occasional link to a story that
> refutes the establishment line. Then of
> course, there are all the military blogs.
> But if you can learn to read between the
> lines, and understand where these media
> *****'s are coming from, you can still paint
> a picture, inaccurate in detail but
> sufficient for general viewing. Just
> understand that when all they'll mention is
> US casualties, there must have been at least
> 10 times as many to the enemy.
I occasionally monitor Rush while in the car. Rush likes to take a story and forge upriver with it. Along the way he makes many semi related side trips up various tributaries and when he is done he has woven a wonderful story, all without materially lying. Unfortunately the non-critical thinker accepts what their radio friend is telling them.
Example, Jessie Jackson is leading a protest march across the Golden Gate Bridge. Rush goes on about its not fair to the economy, working man or business to be disrupted like the time Al Sharpton blocked the Atlantic City Expressway in a protest. Rush went on with other examples of civil disobedience and worked his way back to Jackson tying it all up into a neat concise easy to understand package. Later that day I watched The News Hour on PBS and saw the video of Jessie and his marchers walking down the nice wide walkway on the side of the bridge and in no way was blocking traffic. I conclude that Rush doesn’t care about the facts and isn’t worried about his listeners that know better catch him as long as dummies are being agendasied to the right. The other good one he pulled was trashing USA Today because it didn’t have the time listed for Rush to look for an eclipse, but Rush’s small town local paper did have a time listing. I know nothing about astronomy but it’s my understanding that eclipses move or the viewing point of the eclipse moves. Rush trashed USA Today over and over for omitting facts where his local paper was more accurate. I guess lots of listeners got their ‘takeaway message’ that USA Today is bad. I wish I had seen a copy of USA Today. My guess is that there were time listings for major cities.
So for me Rush is not educating people, he is making people more stupid. They come away knowing less than if they had NOT listened. The dangerous part is that these people have been put on a pedestal for ‘buying in’ and emotionally rewarded for ‘getting it’ where those other bad/stupid Americans ‘simply don’t get it’, kind of a form of self-elevation while doing no work to deserve it.
I like The New York Times for the facts and MAD magazine for the analysis. The New Yorker and the Atlantic aren’t bad. The BBC world report isn’t bad either.
Any other places?
Pete Schumacher ®
04-03-2007, 08:38 PM
> I occasionally monitor Rush while in the
> car. Rush likes to take a story and forge
> upriver with it. Along the way he makes many
> semi related side trips up various
> tributaries and when he is done he has woven
> a wonderful story, all without materially
> lying. Unfortunately the non-critical
> thinker accepts what their radio friend is
> telling them.
The problem with the statement is "occasional" since it is only through exposure that you get what Rush is all about.
> Example, Jessie Jackson is leading a protest
> march across the Golden Gate Bridge. Rush
> goes on about its not fair to the economy,
> working man or business to be disrupted like
> the time Al Sharpton blocked the Atlantic
> City Expressway in a protest. Rush went on
> with other examples of civil disobedience
> and worked his way back to Jackson tying it
> all up into a neat concise easy to
> understand package. Later that day I watched
> The News Hour on PBS and saw the video of
> Jessie and his marchers walking down the
> nice wide walkway on the side of the bridge
> and in no way was blocking traffic. I
> conclude that Rush doesn’t care about the
> facts and isn’t worried about his listeners
> that know better catch him as long as
> dummies are being agendasied to the right.
> The other good one he pulled was trashing
> USA Today because it didn’t have the time
> listed for Rush to look for an eclipse, but
> Rush’s small town local paper did have a
> time listing. I know nothing about astronomy
> but it’s my understanding that eclipses move
> or the viewing point of the eclipse moves.
> Rush trashed USA Today over and over for
> omitting facts where his local paper was
> more accurate. I guess lots of listeners got
> their ‘takeaway message’ that USA Today is
> bad. I wish I had seen a copy of USA Today.
> My guess is that there were time listings
> for major cities.
The point about Jackson is, he was INTENT on disrupting the city, just like Sharpton did here in St. Louis too. Hey, when someone is mimicking a successfully disruptive tactic, why wouldn't you assume they want the same thing.
> So for me Rush is not educating people, he
> is making people more stupid. They come away
> knowing less than if they had NOT listened.
That is dangerously wrong Boso. Since you don't listen to Rush, your take on him is what you've been feed by what you read what others say about him, most of them left of center. If you really listened to him for any length of time, you'd realize what a terrible mis characterization you just made.
> The dangerous part is that these people have
> been put on a pedestal for ‘buying in’ and
> emotionally rewarded for ‘getting it’ where
> those other bad/stupid Americans ‘simply
> don’t get it’, kind of a form of
> self-elevation while doing no work to
> deserve it.
Again, you don't understand what is happening there. Rush puts ideas out into the arena, his and others. He also rips up the stupid tenets of liberal thought through a logical process born out by history.
> I like The New York Times for the facts and
> MAD magazine for the analysis. The New
> Yorker and the Atlantic aren’t bad. The BBC
> world report isn’t bad either.
Well, there you go. You don't get facts from the NYT. Ever hear of Jason Blair? Ever hear of the fawning coverage NYT gave Stalin while he was slaughtering literally millions of his own people? The NYT is a socialist mouthpiece, and has been for well over 75 years. The BBC is no better. Socialist points of view no matter what the story, whether it be the war or global warming. They know of nothing called balanced reporting. It's as if there were no scientists who disagree with Al Gore and that the only evil man in the world is George Bush. No wonder you never hear any good news, or think Rush is vacuous.
A little challenge to you. Put the NYT in the bathroom where it belongs, ripped into wipe-sized slices. Then, instead of reading the sewage pouring forth from those pages, listen to Rush regularly for a while. Browse the articles linked at his website, <A HREF="http://www.rushlimbaugh.com">http://www.rushlimbaugh.com</A> to see what you're missing. It's going to take a couple weeks at least to realize the wealth of alternative media stories you'll get by visiting there. At least, you'll hear another side to the story, other than the left wing tripe you get from NYT.
> Any other places?
Really check Rush's website and read the exerpts from his show, not someone's take on what they thought he said. <A HREF="http://www.rushlimbaugh.com">http://www.rushlimbaugh.com</A>
<A HREF="http://www.mullings.com">http://www.mullings.com</A>
<A HREF="http://www.cnsnews.com">http://www.cnsnews.com</A>
<A HREF="http://www.newsmax.com">http://www.newsmax.com</A>
At least you'll get a few different points of view.
> The problem with the statement is
> "occasional" since it is only
> through exposure that you get what Rush is
> all about.
> The point about Jackson is, he was INTENT on
> disrupting the city, just like Sharpton did
> here in St. Louis too. Hey, when someone is
> mimicking a successfully disruptive tactic,
> why wouldn't you assume they want the same
> thing.
> That is dangerously wrong Boso. Since you
> don't listen to Rush, your take on him is
> what you've been feed by what you read what
> others say about him, most of them left of
> center. If you really listened to him for
> any length of time, you'd realize what a
> terrible mis characterization you just made.
> Again, you don't understand what is
> happening there. Rush puts ideas out into
> the arena, his and others. He also rips up
> the stupid tenets of liberal thought through
> a logical process born out by history.
> Well, there you go. You don't get facts from
> the NYT. Ever hear of Jason Blair? Ever hear
> of the fawning coverage NYT gave Stalin
> while he was slaughtering literally millions
> of his own people? The NYT is a socialist
> mouthpiece, and has been for well over 75
> years. The BBC is no better. Socialist
> points of view no matter what the story,
> whether it be the war or global warming.
> They know of nothing called balanced
> reporting. It's as if there were no
> scientists who disagree with Al Gore and
> that the only evil man in the world is
> George Bush. No wonder you never hear any
> good news, or think Rush is vacuous.
> A little challenge to you. Put the NYT in
> the bathroom where it belongs, ripped into
> wipe-sized slices. Then, instead of reading
> the sewage pouring forth from those pages,
> listen to Rush regularly for a while. Browse
> the articles linked at his website,
> <A HREF="http://www.rushlimbaugh.com">http://www.rushlimbaugh.com</A> to see what
> you're missing. It's going to take a couple
> weeks at least to realize the wealth of
> alternative media stories you'll get by
> visiting there. At least, you'll hear
> another side to the story, other than the
> left wing tripe you get from NYT.
> Really check Rush's website and read the
> exerpts from his show, not someone's take on
> what they thought he said.
> <A HREF="http://www.rushlimbaugh.com">http://www.rushlimbaugh.com</A>
> <A HREF="http://www.mullings.com">http://www.mullings.com</A>
> <A HREF="http://www.cnsnews.com">http://www.cnsnews.com</A>
> <A HREF="http://www.newsmax.com">http://www.newsmax.com</A> At least you'll get
> a few different points of view.
I've listened to Rush enough to validate my opinion. You need a dose of Chomsky to thin out that stuff your proping yourself up on.
Download Le Show and enjoy. It will probably take about 3 shows to catch the flavor.
Go here and click on the link for Le Show
<A HREF="http://www.harryshearer.com/index_2.html">http://www.harryshearer.com/index_2.html</A>
> The problem with the statement is
> "occasional" since it is only
> through exposure that you get what Rush is
> all about.
Occasional but over the years, I have listened enough to get the inside jokes. But no I haven’t subscribed to the newsletter or how to argue with a liberal.
> The point about Jackson is, he was INTENT on
> disrupting the city, just like Sharpton did
> here in St. Louis too. Hey, when someone is
> mimicking a successfully disruptive tactic,
> why wouldn't you assume they want the same
> thing.
Rush isn’t a news show, it’s a speculation show.
> That is dangerously wrong Boso. Since you
> don't listen to Rush, your take on him is
> what you've been feed by what you read what
> others say about him, most of them left of
> center. If you really listened to him for
> any length of time, you'd realize what a
> terrible mis characterization you just made.
Wrong
> Again, you don't understand what is
> happening there. Rush puts ideas out into
> the arena, his and others. He also rips up
> the stupid tenets of liberal thought through
> a logical process born out by history.
brainwashing
> Well, there you go. You don't get facts from
> the NYT. Ever hear of Jason Blair? Ever hear
> of the fawning coverage NYT gave Stalin
> while he was slaughtering literally millions
> of his own people? The NYT is a socialist
> mouthpiece, and has been for well over 75
> years. The BBC is no better. Socialist
> points of view no matter what the story,
> whether it be the war or global warming.
> They know of nothing called balanced
> reporting. It's as if there were no
> scientists who disagree with Al Gore and
> that the only evil man in the world is
> George Bush. No wonder you never hear any
> good news, or think Rush is vacuous.
NYT isn’t perfect, just one of the best. Sorry they report things some would rather ignore.
> A little challenge to you. Put the NYT in
> the bathroom where it belongs, ripped into
> wipe-sized slices. Then, instead of reading
> the sewage pouring forth from those pages,
> listen to Rush regularly for a while. Browse
> the articles linked at his website,
> <A HREF="http://www.rushlimbaugh.com">http://www.rushlimbaugh.com</A> to see what
> you're missing. It's going to take a couple
> weeks at least to realize the wealth of
> alternative media stories you'll get by
> visiting there. At least, you'll hear
> another side to the story, other than the
> left wing tripe you get from NYT.
> Really check Rush's website and read the
> exerpts from his show, not someone's take on
> what they thought he said.
> <A HREF="http://www.rushlimbaugh.com">http://www.rushlimbaugh.com</A>
> <A HREF="http://www.mullings.com">http://www.mullings.com</A>
> <A HREF="http://www.cnsnews.com">http://www.cnsnews.com</A>
> <A HREF="http://www.newsmax.com">http://www.newsmax.com</A> At least you'll get
> a few different points of view.
Rush, Sean, Lars Larson, Monica Crowley and the clones only bitch, very very little constructive stuff. Very little about exactly what the conservative position is especially after a media story they don’t like occurs, usually it takes a day or two for the faxes to come in from the GOP or one of the think tanks telling them how to treat the problem. I think of them as a group of ‘partisan parrot puppet trolls’.
Pete Schumacher ®
04-04-2007, 05:19 PM
from the source of the crap that isn't informing you fully about any of the big stories like the war and global warming, then there's really nothing more anyone can do to point out another point of view.
Unlike you, I find the NYT to be mostly a propoganda tool for the Democrat/Socialist agenda, very little substantive news that isn't tilted so far left that it becomes a parody. In fact, what you read in that spread-out-toilet-paper does far more harm than not reading it, since it instills in those who read it, a cynicism, a negative outlook, a blame America first attitude. News filtered through red-colored glasses.
You asked me where to get another side of the story, and I shared with you not just opinion writers, but news sources who spotlight stories that the NYT buries. The NYT isn't news, it's propaganda, pure and simple. You talk about brainwashing? NYT should be renamed TIDE.
> from the source of the crap that isn't
> informing you fully about any of the big
> stories like the war and global warming,
> then there's really nothing more anyone can
> do to point out another point of view.
> Unlike you, I find the NYT to be mostly a
> propoganda tool for the Democrat/Socialist
> agenda, very little substantive news that
> isn't tilted so far left that it becomes a
> parody. In fact, what you read in that
> spread-out-toilet-paper does far more harm
> than not reading it, since it instills in
> those who read it, a cynicism, a negative
> outlook, a blame America first attitude.
> News filtered through red-colored glasses.
> You asked me where to get another side of
> the story, and I shared with you not just
> opinion writers, but news sources who
> spotlight stories that the NYT buries. The
> NYT isn't news, it's propaganda, pure and
> simple. You talk about brainwashing? NYT
> should be renamed TIDE.
Now I’ve got to add the NYT to my things to hate list. I’ll gust go on hoping things turn out OK in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I saw a bumper sticker that displayed,
1.20.09 end of an error.
I have a friend that has one of those countdown key chains. Any time they get frustrated by lack of good news he can look at the remaining years, days and minutes.
Pete Schumacher ®
04-04-2007, 09:52 PM
> Now I’ve got to add the NYT to my things to
> hate list. I’ll gust go on hoping things
> turn out OK in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The "surge" isn't even fully in place yet, and now reporters have to leave their hotels to go find the violence. Baghdad's curfew has been relaxed.
Most of Al Qaida's leadership is either dead or captured. There have been no attacks on US territory since 9-11. The war is on OUR terms, not theirs now. We're fighting in Baghdad, not NYC.
And why not hope things turn out well there? It's easy to believe in gloom and doom, but it takes someone with a can-do attitude to persevere through the hard part.
The Dem leadership is doing everything it can to undermine this effort. The Idiot Pelosi now tells us that Assad is ready to make peace with Israel after her visit. Really now? This man is funding, training, and supplying the insurgents who are killing our soldiers, and she's over there playing house thinking she's making it all better. It's so easy to see the directed interference in the war by the Democrats, so now not only do we have to fight the terrorists, we have to fight the idiot enablers who were handed power by people fed up with inaction in Congress.
> I saw a bumper sticker that displayed,
> 1.20.09 end of an error.
So how is his life going to improve when GW is gone? Inflation is at an all time low with employment at an all time high. Federal Revenues are at a record level since the tax cuts were enacted. Is Hillary going to stem the flow of Illegals? Or will she grant them amnesty if they register as Democrats? Will Obama defend our society against the onslaught of those who have vowed our destruction and are building nukes to carry out their vision? Will Edwards promise to renounce his participation in the other half of the two Americas?
> I have a friend that has one of those
> countdown key chains. Any time they get
> frustrated by lack of good news he can look
> at the remaining years, days and minutes.
The deep hatred focused on one man is very hard for me to understand, all because Al Gore's stooges in Florida forgot to account for the military absentee voters when they were stuffing the ballot boxes in the districts they controlled. If Gore would have just won his own state, Florida wouldn't have even mattered. And so from that day, the hatred for Bush, the man who stole Gore's rightful seat on the throne, has been unrelenting, in the press, the Democrat leadership and kook Move-On crowd, the University elite, and among Al Qaida. That's an interesting alignment, don't you think? And what's really striking is how those guys parrot the Democrat talking points, and yet the Dems make no effort to distance themselves from that association.
I too look forward to 1-20-09, when someone gets into office, who is tired of political correctness, and relentlessly pursues and defeats his enemies, both military and political.
unknownuser
04-04-2007, 09:55 PM
> aren't buying the hype. You can only cry
> wolf so long before everyone becomes deaf to
> the noise.
You sound strangely familiar. Hmmmm, let me think......
Oh, I know! The tobacco companies used to have some sort of mantra like yours...
And of course, more MDs smoke camels...mmmmmmm hmmm. The hype can work both ways.
Pete, you might be a smart guy, but you're way wrong on this one, and outnumbered by about 1000:1 in the scientific community. Were talking people who actually study this stuff for a living.
(Originally posted by: Hillary)
Pete Schumacher ®
04-04-2007, 10:04 PM
Can you cite a study for that ratio or was it performed by pulling your finger out of your ***?
Those kind of figures are just like Al Gore's doom scenario, made up.
There are more and more scientists, those who study the atmosphere, not guys like you and me who pick our data sources, who laugh at the conclusions you say are certain. When I see people with the big degrees in the areas of expertise required to understand the topic at hand laughing, calling this the biggest hoax in scientific history, I can't conclude that anything is decided in the science community. If it were, there would be no argument. The only place this topic is decided is among the practitioners of the religion of environmentalism.
For the rest of the thinking population who can find other theories to explain what is measured, I leave myself open to think that perhaps it's not so cut and dry as Al Gore says. After all, those same idiots got it wrong in the 1970s with the coming ice age, why should I take their word now?
> The "surge" isn't even fully in
> place yet, and now reporters have to leave
> their hotels to go find the violence.
> Baghdad's curfew has been relaxed.
> Most of Al Qaida's leadership is either dead
> or captured. There have been no attacks on
> US territory since 9-11. The war is on OUR
> terms, not theirs now. We're fighting in
> Baghdad, not NYC.
> And why not hope things turn out well there?
> It's easy to believe in gloom and doom, but
> it takes someone with a can-do attitude to
> persevere through the hard part.
> The Dem leadership is doing everything it
> can to undermine this effort. The Idiot
> Pelosi now tells us that Assad is ready to
> make peace with Israel after her visit.
> Really now? This man is funding, training,
> and supplying the insurgents who are killing
> our soldiers, and she's over there playing
> house thinking she's making it all better.
> It's so easy to see the directed
> interference in the war by the Democrats, so
> now not only do we have to fight the
> terrorists, we have to fight the idiot
> enablers who were handed power by people fed
> up with inaction in Congress.
> So how is his life going to improve when GW
> is gone? Inflation is at an all time low
> with employment at an all time high. Federal
> Revenues are at a record level since the tax
> cuts were enacted. Is Hillary going to stem
> the flow of Illegals? Or will she grant them
> amnesty if they register as Democrats? Will
> Obama defend our society against the
> onslaught of those who have vowed our
> destruction and are building nukes to carry
> out their vision? Will Edwards promise to
> renounce his participation in the other half
> of the two Americas?
> The deep hatred focused on one man is very
> hard for me to understand, all because Al
> Gore's stooges in Florida forgot to account
> for the military absentee voters when they
> were stuffing the ballot boxes in the
> districts they controlled. If Gore would
> have just won his own state, Florida
> wouldn't have even mattered. And so from
> that day, the hatred for Bush, the man who
> stole Gore's rightful seat on the throne,
> has been unrelenting, in the press, the
> Democrat leadership and kook Move-On crowd,
> the University elite, and among Al Qaida.
> That's an interesting alignment, don't you
> think? And what's really striking is how
> those guys parrot the Democrat talking
> points, and yet the Dems make no effort to
> distance themselves from that association.
> I too look forward to 1-20-09, when someone
> gets into office, who is tired of political
> correctness, and relentlessly pursues and
> defeats his enemies, both military and
> political.
This government was built on compromise and has worked up to this point. Now we have a leader who will not compromise let alone listen to the public. If Richard Nixon could be brought back that would be an improvement. There is no point in hating the man only his actions. Like I said earlier, I hope the Iraq government uses the time that the surge provides to allow them to get themselves in order and knock off the sectarian violence.
Don’t you ever get the feeling you’re being used buying into the propaganda? Most of it is designed to distract. Lots of stuff going on domestically not getting much play.
Getting back to talk radio, Sean takes most calls from sycophants and occasionally a call from somebody who has a point to make. So Sean in his typical bullhead manner baits the caller while raising this audio level and lowering the caller’s audio level. After it turns a little ugly Sean hits the dump button, muting the caller and one of the producers puts a position piece on Sean’s screen to read as if it is spontaneous but Sean chokes on the 50 cent words and has to stall while somebody tells him the pronunciation in his head set. This just lets me know he is the bullheaded fool in front of the curtain. Again making know less than if they hadn’t listened.
Just imagine the Cuban missile crisis without JFK and GB instead. Talk about disaster.
Democracy doesn’t work without an informed public. That’s why I say the REAL danger is an uninformed or non-thinking educated segment of society. They are the ones who buy into and propagate the state propaganda, which can’t happen without the complicit help of the media. Amazingly people are running around screaming the media is liberal. It can’t work both ways. Somebody is getting used.
The single item voters are getting used as well. Once their issue is solved to their satisfaction they become somewhat less interested politically and there goes a few million votes. These cants happen with how close elections have been. Hopefully some of these people are realizing they are being used. The religious right is getting a little ****** since there have been no results. The whole ID thing was to give them something else to be ****** about but it didn’t stick. Then they could be 2 item voters.
With the overselling of ‘facts’ going into the war lots of good Americans also feel they have been used as well. Now many worry how long this will take, what it is doing to the deficit and how many generations it will take to pay it.
Rush is a dope addict allegedly in recovery. He has done poorly at marriages. He is NO moral leader. Further he used that Kennedy family attorney Mr. Back to defend him. What a disgrace.
unknownuser
04-05-2007, 10:14 AM
> Can you cite a study for that ratio or was
> it performed by pulling your finger out of
> your ***?
> Those kind of figures are just like Al
> Gore's doom scenario, made up.
> There are more and more scientists, those
> who study the atmosphere, not guys like you
> and me who pick our data sources, who laugh
> at the conclusions you say are certain. When
> I see people with the big degrees in the
> areas of expertise required to understand
> the topic at hand laughing, calling this the
> biggest hoax in scientific history, I can't
> conclude that anything is decided in the
> science community. If it were, there would
> be no argument. The only place this topic is
> decided is among the practitioners of the
> religion of environmentalism.
> For the rest of the thinking population who
> can find other theories to explain what is
> measured, I leave myself open to think that
> perhaps it's not so cut and dry as Al Gore
> says. After all, those same idiots got it
> wrong in the 1970s with the coming ice age,
> why should I take their word now?
I just made it up. Sounded about right to me ;).
The thing that can't be refuted, however, is the concentration of CO2 in our atmosphere. The numbers don't lie. The real debate is this: Is there a causation link between our current (highest) CO2 levels in the last 100,000 yrs, and our extreme weather? Link or not, it's alarming. Our atmospheric gases our out of whack and it's most likely OUR fault. That can't be refuted. Do you think it's pure coincidence that these numbers coincide with the world's industrial revolution, or not? I think not. Any statistician would be able to tell you that. The probability is so extremely low of it happening by pure chance that even considering it is ridiculous. Agreed?
Here's another idea. Maybe we are experiencing the birth pangs of the S.C. Maybe it's all supposed to happen and there's not a thing that we can do about it. Take a look at data for ALL natural disasters (quakes, volcanic activity, huricanes, etc) over the last 100 years. All these events are increasing in almost geometric proportions. We are having huricanes in places where they should not happen. Have you been following the yellowstone caldera? The list is long. Scary stuff (well, for some people).
I say it's time to break away from all the (mostly) goofy ideas of man: the r-right, the greens, and others and turn to the only reliable source of power and enlightenment: G-d's Word. Something funny is going on in this world. Ignoring it ain't gonna make it go away. I think Someone is trying to send a message. What do you think?
(Originally posted by: Hillary)
unknownuser
04-05-2007, 12:11 PM
America is no country, it is a continent. United States is a country. When you talk about america, you include south america, wich countrys are, for a vast majority, against United States politics. And you also include Canada, wich might seem to support United States for now, but this could change radically with a new governement.
Think about it!.
(Originally posted by: Better Anonymous I guess)
dthomas
04-05-2007, 12:18 PM
> America is no country, it is a continent.
> United States is a country. When you talk
> about america, you include south america,
> wich countrys are, for a vast majority,
> against United States politics. And you also
> include Canada, wich might seem to support
> United States for now, but this could change
> radically with a new governement.
> Think about it!.
"God Bless America" is a common phrase used by Americans which also is an accepted way of identifying U.S. citizens.
I did think about it. People from Mexico do not call themselves Americans no more than Canadians do. This is pretty much a dead topic. I buried a nephew who was a Patriot this past week I would like to drop this.
Dave
Pete Schumacher ®
04-05-2007, 02:08 PM
> This government was built on compromise and
> has worked up to this point. Now we have a
> leader who will not compromise let alone
> listen to the public. If Richard Nixon could
> be brought back that would be an
> improvement. There is no point in hating the
> man only his actions. Like I said earlier, I
> hope the Iraq government uses the time that
> the surge provides to allow them to get
> themselves in order and knock off the
> sectarian violence.
This government took 13 years to complete it's Constitution while the states bitterly argued over whether or not to form a Federation was a good idea. The MTV mind set and woefully short attention spans that it spawns are in stark contrast to the real world. Whole generations are involved here, when you are talking about changing from a totalitarian existence for two generations or more, into a free society, it takes more than the terms of a President or Senator for the changes to set it.
When you "compromise" your core values, as in Bush 1 agreeing to raise taxes on the promise that Democrats would cut spending $2 for each new dollar, you get exactly what you deserve . . . Ridden out of office. Compromising with those whose ideals are anathema is surrender. You defeat your enemies, you don't appease them, whether those enemies are terrorists or democrats. You defeat them, you don't compromise with them. You defeat the military enemy by either killing them all, or they surrender and turn themselves over to you. You defeat your political enemies by NOT compromising with them. When you give up your position, you are only encouraging another compromise, and another, and another, until you have nothing left. Compromise = Surrender.
> Don’t you ever get the feeling you’re being
> used buying into the propaganda? Most of it
> is designed to distract. Lots of stuff going
> on domestically not getting much play.
Now you know why I don't read NYT or watch ABCNNBCBS. One can only take so much of the propaganda before it begins to affect your attitude. I refuse to feel guilty for burning gasoline, natural gas, consuming electricity from coal and nuclear sources. I love air conditioning and loath cold houses in the winter. I revile at terrorists and want our military doing what they trained to do, wipe them out where THEY live, not where we live. I want my President to ignore the people who now nay say the war after voting to engage in it. If I were to constantly hear the drivel coming from NYT and WP without having SOMETHING else to counter the avalanche of doom, I'd want to march on Washington too, not realizing how absolutely devoid of factual information I really was. The most clueless people I see anymore are not the stupefied average Joe or Jane who don't know who the Vice President is. It is those Code Pink, ANSWER, PUSH crowd that seem to show up at every protest anymore to decry Bush as Hitler while praising a thug like Chavez or Castro. I'm no Bush fan, but Hitler? These people are not just clueless, they're insane, literally mentally diseased. No viruses, just absolutely irreparable wiring damage upstairs.
> Getting back to talk radio, Sean takes most
> calls from sycophants and occasionally a
> call from somebody who has a point to make.
> So Sean in his typical bullhead manner baits
> the caller while raising this audio level
> and lowering the caller’s audio level. After
> it turns a little ugly Sean hits the dump
> button, muting the caller and one of the
> producers puts a position piece on Sean’s
> screen to read as if it is spontaneous but
> Sean chokes on the 50 cent words and has to
> stall while somebody tells him the
> pronunciation in his head set. This just
> lets me know he is the bullheaded fool in
> front of the curtain. Again making know less
> than if they hadn’t listened.
I personally think Sean Hannity is a bad host and can't stand his show.
> Just imagine the Cuban missile crisis
> without JFK and GB instead. Talk about
> disaster.
A pointless exercise in what ifs. Can you imagine the Cuban Missile Crisis with Bill Clinton in the White House? Al Gore? John F'ing Kerry? Hillary? Today's Democrat is a mere evening shadow of the Democrat that was John F. Kennedy. "Ask not what your country can do for you . . ." "A rising tide lifts all boats . . ." from his speech on why he wanted to cut income taxes. And this one is my favorite.
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty." Wow, what a contrast to today's Democrat leadership eh?
> Democracy doesn’t work without an informed
> public. That’s why I say the REAL danger is
> an uninformed or non-thinking educated
> segment of society. They are the ones who
> buy into and propagate the state propaganda,
> which can’t happen without the complicit
> help of the media. Amazingly people are
> running around screaming the media is
> liberal. It can’t work both ways. Somebody
> is getting used.
No, you don't get it. Most of the media (ABCNNBCBS LAT NYT WP UP AP RUETERS) have the same agenda as one side of the political spectrum, the election and success of liberalism and those who represent it. They are gladly being used by each other to further their political agenda. You can't be really educated in this country until you divorce yourself from those sources and start dating the world of alternate news. It's like finally climbing out of a cesspool. You don't know it stinks until you finally find out what a fresh idea smells like.
> The single item voters are getting used as
> well. Once their issue is solved to their
> satisfaction they become somewhat less
> interested politically and there goes a few
> million votes. These cants happen with how
> close elections have been. Hopefully some of
> these people are realizing they are being
> used. The religious right is getting a
> little ****** since there have been no
> results. The whole ID thing was to give them
> something else to be ****** about but it
> didn’t stick. Then they could be 2 item
> voters.
As long as you're own single issue voters, how about how Black Americans have been used by the Democrats? How long will Democrats fail to deliver on promises before Black America wakes up to the fact that Washington isn't the panacea they've been sold and that the Donkey Party really is a bunch of Jackasses.
> With the overselling of ‘facts’ going into
> the war lots of good Americans also feel
> they have been used as well. Now many worry
> how long this will take, what it is doing to
> the deficit and how many generations it will
> take to pay it.
And do you have such a short memory that you don't understand the times during which that was taking place? Hell, NYC was still smoking!!! Saddam had just been in violation of the FOURTEENTH UN resolution. We were discussing the evidence piled up by Clinton's CIA, Blair's MI5, French, German, and Israeli sources. The US gave up on ground intelligence thinking they could do everything with satellites. What evidence we had, Saddam was willfully feeding us. That doesn't change the fact that we went, approved by the Senate, House, many of those who now want to quit without success. Oh how far they've come since JFK. Back then, they cared about human rights. Now, human rights don't matter spit as long as lefty is running the show.
> Rush is a dope addict allegedly in recovery.
> He has done poorly at marriages. He is NO
> moral leader. Further he used that Kennedy
> family attorney Mr. Back to defend him. What
> a disgrace.
Rush was addicted to a prescription drug given by his doctor to treat real back pain. He's no superman, he's human. That doesn't make what he says irrelevant or any less brilliant or accurate or true. Rush doesn't hide his faults, how can he? And while you may think he's no moral leader, he doesn't claim to be one either. How about Kerry? Talk about a gold digger. Clinton? Yeah, he's still married to her, but so what? She only stays married because she knows what stud done brung her to the dance. She'd be nothing without slick Willie. Kennedy? Killed a girl and left the scene. Should I go on?
I don't live Rush's lifestyle, but I do agree with his political philosophy and values. Everyone falls short, that's human, but you don't change the goal posts.
Pete Schumacher ®
04-05-2007, 02:23 PM
> I just made it up. Sounded about right to me
> ;).
Thought so.
> The thing that can't be refuted, however, is
> the concentration of CO2 in our atmosphere.
> The numbers don't lie.
That's right, people do.
> The real debate is
> this: Is there a causation link between our
> current (highest) CO2 levels in the last
> 100,000 yrs, and our extreme weather?
What extreme weather? You mean like last year's all time worst category 5 hurricane season? Oh, wait, that DIDN'T happen as predicted either.
> Link or not, it's alarming. Our atmospheric gases
> our out of whack and it's most likely OUR
> fault. That can't be refuted.
Oh yes it can. That's where you fail as a scientist. You can't back up that last assertion. Alarming? Maybe to someone ready to buy into the gloom and doom. Out of whack? According to whom?
> Do you think
> it's pure coincidence that these numbers
> coincide with the world's industrial
> revolution, or not? I think not. Any
> statistician would be able to tell you that.
> The probability is so extremely low of it
> happening by pure chance that even
> considering it is ridiculous. Agreed?
Not agreed. Man's contribution to global CO2 is a small fraction of the total, around 3%. I refuse to believe that our measly 3% contribution is the cause for 100% of the warming. Not only is that not science, it's not even science fiction. I give an F for creativity and believability as a Hollywood movie scenario.
> Here's another idea. Maybe we are
> experiencing the birth pangs of the S.C.
> Maybe it's all supposed to happen and
> there's not a thing that we can do about it.
> Take a look at data for ALL natural
> disasters (quakes, volcanic activity,
> huricanes, etc) over the last 100 years. All
> these events are increasing in almost
> geometric proportions. We are having
> huricanes in places where they should not
> happen. Have you been following the
> yellowstone caldera? The list is long. Scary
> stuff (well, for some people).
It's all George Bush's fault.
> I say it's time to break away from all the
> (mostly) goofy ideas of man: the r-right,
> the greens, and others and turn to the only
> reliable source of power and enlightenment:
> G-d's Word. Something funny is going on in
> this world. Ignoring it ain't gonna make it
> go away. I think Someone is trying to send a
> message. What do you think?
Every time I look beyond my nose, I see the message. How about you?
G-d didn't make a world so fragile that we could destroy it by living our lives while improving the human condition. I refuse to believe that curing disease, increasing life span, feeding the billions, lighting the darkness, and living in freedom are causing us to destroy the planet.
The human-caused global warming hoax is getting old. How about something else that isn't so obviously stupid.
unknownuser
04-05-2007, 06:24 PM
> G-d didn't make a world so fragile that we
> could destroy it by living our lives while
> improving the human condition.
Hmmmm. He's destroyed it at least once. The truth is, it is fragile. We are it's stewarts. We've done a pathetic job of taking care of it. Don't be so naieve, Pete.
I refuse to
> believe that curing disease, increasing life
> span, feeding the billions, lighting the
> darkness, and living in freedom are causing
> us to destroy the planet.
Wishful thinking, Pete. Improving the human condition?
"Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it." Luke 17:33
Technology is a great thing Pete, but at the end of the day, G-d is the one who ought to be given the glory for life, not man. YOU don't breathe a single breath except by the power of G-d. In spite of man's best efforts, G-d can snatch your life, my life away in an instant. It's a paradox, but true.
"Luke 4:5 - 8: And he [the devil] led him [Jesus] up, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, To thee will I give all this authority, and the glory of them: for it hath been delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship before me, it shall all be thine. And Jesus answered and said unto him, It is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."
How could the enemy make such an offer unless he's got control of it all? Think about it.
Here's more:
1Jo 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1 John 5:19 "We know that we are of God, and the WHOLE WORLD lieth in the evil one."
Don't put too much stock in the world systems, Pete. They are ALL authored and controlled by the enemy. All of it including medicine, commerce, politics -- all of it.
Pick up some of Watchman Nee's teaching. Great, great Chinese biblical scholar and teacher. He's been dead for some 50 years, but his teaching is timeless (as is G-d's Word).
We are not a beacon unto the world as most church-goers believe. We are the corruptors of the world. Do some study on mystery babylon. You might be amazed to find out who/what it really is.
Most of the Christianity you see in America is false. The idiots you see on TV, the moral majority, the R-right, it's all a lie. When a person finally gets this, everything begins to make sense.
(Originally posted by: Hillary)
Pete Schumacher ®
04-05-2007, 08:54 PM
> Hmmmm. He's destroyed it at least once. The
> truth is, it is fragile. We are it's
> stewarts. We've done a pathetic job of
> taking care of it. Don't be so naieve, Pete.
HE DESTROYED IT, not us. The world is not fragile. And we've not done a pathetic job of stewardship. America is operating table clean compared to the despotic regimes and communist countries around the world who treat the earth without respect.
> I refuse to
> Wishful thinking, Pete. Improving the human
> condition?
Since when is improving life span not improving the human condition? Curing polio is not improving the human condition? Learning to grow 10 times the food per acre is not good stewardship of the resources? Feeding billions with our surplus is not improving the human condition?
> "Whosoever shall seek to save his life
> shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his
> life shall preserve it." Luke 17:33
Then lets all quit eating and just die. You completely mis apply that passage. By your reasoning, a physician is wasting not only his time, but his patients soul.
> Technology is a great thing Pete, but at the
> end of the day, G-d is the one who ought to
> be given the glory for life, not man. YOU
> don't breathe a single breath except by the
> power of G-d. In spite of man's best
> efforts, G-d can snatch your life, my life
> away in an instant. It's a paradox, but
> true.
Not a paradox, a fact. And I put my faith in G-d and see it every time I look past my nose at the wondrous creation He hath wrought.
> "Luke 4:5 - 8: And he [the devil] led
> him [Jesus] up, and showed him all the
> kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
> And the devil said unto him, To thee will I
> give all this authority, and the glory of
> them: for it hath been delivered unto me;
> and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou
> therefore wilt worship before me, it shall
> all be thine. And Jesus answered and said
> unto him, It is written, Thou shalt worship
> the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou
> serve."
All the more reason NOT to worship at the altar of Gaia, earth mother nature goddess. G-d is in control of his creation.
How about this quote: "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth."
That my friend was G-d's FIRST commandment to Adam. You can't be fruitful and multiply without subduing the earth and getting control of your environment as best you can. That means building towns, cities, farms, industry. Without them, there are no 6 billion people. It is man's modern technology that has enabled him to begin to fulfill G-d's commandment. Without technology, it's just not possible.
> How could the enemy make such an offer
> unless he's got control of it all? Think
> about it.
> Here's more:
> 1Jo 2:16 For all that is in the world, the
> lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes,
> and the pride of life, is not of the Father,
> but is of the world.
> 1 John 5:19 "We know that we are of
> God, and the WHOLE WORLD lieth in the evil
> one."
> Don't put too much stock in the world
> systems, Pete. They are ALL authored and
> controlled by the enemy. All of it including
> medicine, commerce, politics -- all of it.
I don't. That's the whole point. This global warming nonsense is about politics, about control, about seizing freedom and demonizing progress. The pursuit of excellence is not the evil one. We may have to live in this world, but because we go to work and earn a living, you now say we're doing the devil's business? You read WAY to much into that passage. The way of the world is not G-d's, but when a man of G-d is a physician, he is NOT doing the devil's bidding.
> We are not a beacon unto the world as most
> church-goers believe. We are the corruptors
> of the world. Do some study on mystery
> babylon. You might be amazed to find out
> who/what it really is.
We are the corruptors eh? What was Stalin then? Marx? Castro? Hitler? Who sends missionaries to the world? Where is Christian faith alive anymore? Certainly it is on it's dying breath in Europe.
Babylon? Well, there's plenty of Bablyon all over the place. And while all fall short, there are some who not only take pride in their sin, they export their sin along with their pride in it.
> Most of the Christianity you see in America
> is false. The idiots you see on TV, the
> moral majority, the R-right, it's all a lie.
> When a person finally gets this, everything
> begins to make sense.
I'm not sure what is making sense to you. You seem to have bought the lie that WE are the cause for global warming. I don't watch televangelists, but I do read scripture, and my reading and study of it has lead me to some quite different conclusions about the human condition, this nation's role in it, and our part as citizens.
You feel free to look at this nation with disgust and as the source of corruption in the world. I'll continue to look at it as one founded on principles first espoused by Jesus, that we are all brothers and sisters before G-d. This nation, this one alone, established itself based on that tenet put forth by Christ. It may have been corrupted since then, but the ideal is still there and there are many who truly believe that the founding principles are worthy of defending and building upon.
Sure beats the heck out of handing over our freedom to the UN and Al Gore.
unknownuser
04-06-2007, 01:51 AM
> HE DESTROYED IT, not us. The world is not
> fragile. And we've not done a pathetic job
> of stewardship. America is operating table
> clean compared to the despotic regimes and
> communist countries around the world who
> treat the earth without respect.
> Since when is improving life span not
> improving the human condition? Curing polio
> is not improving the human condition?
> Learning to grow 10 times the food per acre
> is not good stewardship of the resources?
> Feeding billions with our surplus is not
> improving the human condition?
> Then lets all quit eating and just die. You
> completely mis apply that passage. By your
> reasoning, a physician is wasting not only
> his time, but his patients soul.
No I don't, Pete. Please read:
"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him" 1John 2:15
Though we live in the world, we are not of it (John 17:11, 16), so we should not become involved in its judgments. Christ clearly teaches us that we ought to be very careful as we make our way through this life. "It's but a vapor" (translation: our life is but a fart in the wind). We ought to walk through this very, very short existance on earth with our focus on eternity. We in America are like Esau: trading our birth right (heaven) for a piece of meat (the world).
> Not a paradox, a fact. And I put my faith in
> G-d and see it every time I look past my
> nose at the wondrous creation He hath
> wrought.
> All the more reason NOT to worship at the
> altar of Gaia, earth mother nature goddess.
> G-d is in control of his creation.
Totally agreed. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be good stewarts.
> How about this quote: "Be fruitful and
> multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it;
> and rule over the fish of the sea and over
> the birds of the sky and over every living
> thing that moves on the earth."
> That my friend was G-d's FIRST commandment
> to Adam. You can't be fruitful and multiply
> without subduing the earth and getting
> control of your environment as best you can.
Yup. Adam was still an immortal man at that point. He hadn't been corrupted yet. After the curse G-d put on the earth, satan gained LEGAL authority and dominion over it until Christ's SC. Christ's death bought resurection of the body for all the saints as well as a better covenant. It also gave individual authority to the saints over the enemy IF they choose to take it, but NOT dominion over the world. It's the enemy's until the sc.
> That means building towns, cities, farms,
> industry. Without them, there are no 6
> billion people. It is man's modern
> technology that has enabled him to begin to
> fulfill G-d's commandment. Without
> technology, it's just not possible.
without technology, G-d's plan to have every nation evangelized before the SC could not happen. Without technology the enemy can't try to fulfill his futile task of overthrowing God's plan and destroying God's creation (man), which he is so jealous of.
> I don't. That's the whole point. This global
> warming nonsense is about politics, about
> control, about seizing freedom and
> demonizing progress. The pursuit of
> excellence is not the evil one. We may have
> to live in this world, but because we go to
> work and earn a living, you now say we're
> doing the devil's business? You read WAY to
> much into that passage. The way of the world
> is not G-d's, but when a man of G-d is a
> physician, he is NOT doing the devil's
> bidding.
It's a matter of the heart, Pete. Food is necessary. Shelter is necessary. Gluttony is not. Mansions are not. Medicine is good. Faith in medicine is not good (our faith should be in Christ). Get my drift?
> We are the corruptors eh? What was Stalin
> then? Marx? Castro? Hitler? Who sends
> missionaries to the world? Where is
> Christian faith alive anymore? Certainly it
> is on it's dying breath in Europe.
Today, most fresh water lakes in this country are so polluted that even one single serving of fish could poison and damage an unborn fetus. This was not the case even 30-40 years ago. Need I say more?
> Babylon? Well, there's plenty of Bablyon all
> over the place. And while all fall short,
> there are some who not only take pride in
> their sin, they export their sin along with
> their pride in it.
Get your Book out. Read Rev. chapt. 17. Study the description of the ***** and the merchants who do business with her. Think about the COLORS she is wearing. Whose colors are they? If you keep an open mind, the answer will jump right off the pages, Pete.
> I'm not sure what is making sense to you.
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you Mathew 7:7
I could talk until I'm blue in the face, Pete, and you wouldn't get it. This one is between you and the Big Man. Scripture is discerned by the HS. I don't have time to give you supporting scripture. Pray. Read.
Do you really think that "an angel of light" is going to appear hideous and obviously evil? Duh! The enemy is the master of deception. The enemy has people calling what is good, evil, and what is evil is called good. Think about it.
> You feel free to look at this nation with
> disgust and as the source of corruption in
> the world.
You said it yourself, Pete. Look at Hollywood. Most of us live our lives through the crap that spills out of there. Every emotion, every mannerism, the way we dress, etc. It's called american pop culture. Our values are corrupting this world. Read the first commandment. Can you say "American Idol"? C'mon Pete, that's just too easy! Idols are everywhere you turn in this country. The enemy has us so wrapped up in our material world that we have no time for much of anything important anymore. Think about it.
I'll continue to look at it as
> one founded on principles first espoused by
> Jesus, that we are all brothers and sisters
> before G-d. This nation, this one alone,
> established itself based on that tenet put
> forth by Christ. It may have been corrupted
> since then, but the ideal is still there and
> there are many who truly believe that the
> founding principles are worthy of defending
> and building upon.
> Sure beats the heck out of handing over our
> freedom to the UN and Al Gore.
Well, it's happening and nothing is gonna stop it. The prophets wrote about it. That ain't doom and gloom, Pete -- it's called reality. Christ knew he was going to die. He told his disciples. Was that doom and gloom?
IMHO we live in scary times. Even that much more reason to keep our noses clean (fear G-d) and keep the focus on Him and our families.
(Originally posted by: Hillary)
Pete Schumacher ®
04-06-2007, 02:54 AM
You sound more and more like those televangelists to me with each and every post.
For someone quoting scripture about being apart from the world, you sure were making a big stink about how we're killing the planet. Why would you even care? Did you ever hear Christ condemn the polluter? Did you ever hear him voice his concern over man killing the planet? Talk about wasting your time.
Scripture tells us that disaster is brought to the earth and destroyed, but not by man. Man will fight wars. Man will kill man and nations will fight with nations. But man is never the bringer of doom to the planet. The horsemen are sent by . . . ?
You need to read your scriptures a little more too and quit reading into them things that are not there.
You will not know the hour when the bridegroom returns, so your predictions of end times are fruitless and wasteful speculation. Many before you have been proven charlatans predicting the end of the world. I may take a little more notice when the temple wall in Jerusalem finally comes down, "with not one stone left upon another."
Being a good steward, not Stewart, means discharging responsibilities, whether they be spiritual or material. Christ never condemned the soldier for being one. He praised the faith of the centurion for knowing the power of authority. He did not chastise him for being a soldier. He was a carpenter, a laborer, as was his father Joseph. Industriousness in worldly affairs was a trait Jesus referred to often. The vineyard owner, the king who forgave a debt, the lazy servant who squandered his charge and whose little was taken and given to the one with the most. Jesus was a man, and as a man understood what it means to be a man and make your way in the world. Being a good steward means taking your citizenship seriously too. "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's." As a citizen, you have your responsibilities. And as far as I can tell, voting, being informed, understanding physics and appreciating music are not sins. Working to dispel rumor and hoax are not sinful activities either. However, those who are promoting the notion that global warming is caused by man are breaking the commandment: Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness.
> This government took 13 years to complete
> it's Constitution while the states bitterly
> argued over whether or not to form a
> Federation was a good idea.
This is called a compromise at work doing its job.
> The MTV mind set
> and woefully short attention spans that it
> spawns are in stark contrast to the real
> world.
Your point is lost on me but shouldn’t you be blaming Sesame Street on PBS? I would think SS (on PBS) would be a more appropriate hate target for you.
> Whole generations are involved here,
> when you are talking about changing from a
> totalitarian existence for two generations
> or more, into a free society, it takes more
> than the terms of a President or Senator for
> the changes to set it.
That wasn’t the original game plan. Your forgetting the rose pedals at our feet or so the surrogates said and nobody in the administration corrected them.
> When you "compromise" your core
> values, as in Bush 1 agreeing to raise taxes
> on the promise that Democrats would cut
> spending $2 for each new dollar, you get
> exactly what you deserve . . . Ridden out of
> office.
This is one of the LARGEST mysteries to me. The GOP says they have a BIG tent with lots of room but entrance requires pure ideological virtue, no thinking on your own, you might find others that have the same thought as you do and they don’t want that. Only the party plan as dictated will be tolerated. Sorry but that’s no way to build a party or win and election. It makes for a big tent with a few only lonely people chanting the mantra as directed.
> Compromising with those whose ideals
> are anathema is surrender. You defeat your
> enemies, you don't appease them, whether
> those enemies are terrorists or democrats.
> You defeat them, you don't compromise with
> them. You defeat the military enemy by
> either killing them all, or they surrender
> and turn themselves over to you. You defeat
> your political enemies by NOT compromising
> with them. When you give up your position,
> you are only encouraging another compromise,
> and another, and another, until you have
> nothing left. Compromise = Surrender.
Concerning defeating enemies and not compromising we only have to look as far as the Brits that were grabbed by the Iranians. Apply your theory to that incident and presto you have a war but then again that may be desirable for you.
Well, that explains why GB has little to say and rarely takes questions and doesn’t answer them, just wanders and mottles through. The press is the enemy in a democracy?
> Now you know why I don't read NYT or watch
> ABCNNBCBS. One can only take so much of the
> propaganda before it begins to affect your
> attitude. I refuse to feel guilty for
> burning gasoline, natural gas, consuming
> electricity from coal and nuclear sources. I
> love air conditioning and loath cold houses
> in the winter. I revile at terrorists and
> want our military doing what they trained to
> do, wipe them out where THEY live, not where
> we live. I want my President to ignore the
> people who now nay say the war after voting
> to engage in it. If I were to constantly
> hear the drivel coming from NYT and WP
> without having SOMETHING else to counter the
> avalanche of doom, I'd want to march on
> Washington too, not realizing how absolutely
> devoid of factual information I really was.
> The most clueless people I see anymore are
> not the stupefied average Joe or Jane who
> don't know who the Vice President is. It is
> those Code Pink, ANSWER, PUSH crowd that
> seem to show up at every protest anymore to
> decry Bush as Hitler while praising a thug
> like Chavez or Castro. I'm no Bush fan, but
> Hitler? These people are not just clueless,
> they're insane, literally mentally diseased.
> No viruses, just absolutely irreparable
> wiring damage upstairs.
I ignore the fringe from whatever direction they come from. But there is more science every day about warming.
> I personally think Sean Hannity is a bad
> host and can't stand his show.
> A pointless exercise in what ifs. Can you
> imagine the Cuban Missile Crisis with Bill
> Clinton in the White House? Al Gore? John
> F'ing Kerry? Hillary? Today's Democrat is a
> mere evening shadow of the Democrat that was
> John F. Kennedy. "Ask not what your
> country can do for you . . ." "A
> rising tide lifts all boats . . ." from
> his speech on why he wanted to cut income
> taxes. And this one is my favorite.
> "Let every nation know, whether it
> wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any
> price, bear any burden, meet any hardship,
> support any friend, oppose any foe, in order
> to assure the survival and the success of
> liberty." Wow, what a contrast to
> today's Democrat leadership eh?
Irreverent. Those folks aren’t IN the White House today. The point is what would happen today if there were a major standoff of very serious consequences between a pair of knuckleheads that aren’t capable of talking on the red phone but thinking the red button as the only possible reaction.
> No, you don't get it. Most of the media
> (ABCNNBCBS LAT NYT WP UP AP RUETERS) have
> the same agenda as one side of the political
> spectrum, the election and success of
> liberalism and those who represent it. They
> are gladly being used by each other to
> further their political agenda. You can't be
> really educated in this country until you
> divorce yourself from those sources and
> start dating the world of alternate news.
> It's like finally climbing out of a
> cesspool. You don't know it stinks until you
> finally find out what a fresh idea smells
> like.
Yes the media does suck. I’m up for any sources you have, but from your post above, Rush is NOT a news source. The show in no way is connected or associated to journalism.
> As long as you're own single issue voters,
> how about how Black Americans have been used
> by the Democrats? How long will Democrats
> fail to deliver on promises before Black
> America wakes up to the fact that Washington
> isn't the panacea they've been sold and that
> the Donkey Party really is a bunch of
> Jackasses.
The idea of participating in a democracy is only a few generations old for them. They DO know they are being used but it’s one of those voting against someone more than voting for someone things. After being allowed access to education and higher education, many Blacks lead a middle class lifestyle and have middle class values.
BO may shift things a little as far as Blacks are being used.
> And do you have such a short memory that you
> don't understand the times during which that
> was taking place? Hell, NYC was still
> smoking!!! Saddam had just been in violation
> of the FOURTEENTH UN resolution. We were
> discussing the evidence piled up by
> Clinton's CIA, Blair's MI5, French, German,
> and Israeli sources. The US gave up on
> ground intelligence thinking they could do
> everything with satellites. What evidence we
> had, Saddam was willfully feeding us. That
> doesn't change the fact that we went,
> approved by the Senate, House, many of those
> who now want to quit without success. Oh how
> far they've come since JFK. Back then, they
> cared about human rights. Now, human rights
> don't matter spit as long as lefty is
> running the show.
Saddam was our buddy. Since you hate the UN I’ll ignore your UN comment. We shopped for intel by telling unreliable people with code names like Curveball what we were shopping for and amazingly like a good capitalist he supplied the goods to the buyer and gets some of his friends to do the same. Take the Italian journalist that found the letter on the yellow cake and wouldn’t print it because they were smart enough to know it was forged. Come on, we’ve been involved in terrorism plenty in Central America. You don’t know your history or chose to ignore it or have different ‘principals’ when we do it. Please drop the word principal from your vocabulary.
> Rush was addicted to a prescription drug
> given by his doctor to treat real back pain.
> He's no superman, he's human. That doesn't
> make what he says irrelevant or any less
> brilliant or accurate or true. Rush doesn't
> hide his faults, how can he? And while you
> may think he's no moral leader, he doesn't
> claim to be one either. How about Kerry?
> Talk about a gold digger. Clinton? Yeah,
> he's still married to her, but so what? She
> only stays married because she knows what
> stud done brung her to the dance. She'd be
> nothing without slick Willie. Kennedy?
> Killed a girl and left the scene. Should I
> go on?
> I don't live Rush's lifestyle, but I do
> agree with his political philosophy and
> values. Everyone falls short, that's human,
> but you don't change the goal posts.
Rush used to promote a ‘correct me if I’m wrong’ policy and ‘I’ll publicly apologize’ bit. Except he got called on it so many times and then decided to stop making the claim.
On a personal note: I’m on oxycodone, two types, one is time release for pain maintenance and the other is for breakthrough pain. When the doctor put me on this stuff he explained that it IS habit forming and that I might be inclined to take it as NOT directed. This is the difference between addiction and abuse. The doctor explained that he has had patients that will go through the prescription faster than they should because they are chasing the buzz. He made it clear he would not write a new prescription before it was due. I’m proud to report that I have not fallen into the trap of abuse. Now in Rushes case he was doctor shopping, trying to get multiple doctors to prescribe oxy which is a crime as well as having his maid trying to get the stuff on the street. You also have to realize this was claimed for back pain, but the back pain never interfered with his golf game. So for a guy who treats everything in absolutes and has said the bad dope people should be put to death so far has not followed his own advice. There is very little if anything at all to admire in Rush. Just one of the highest paid whiners out there… bitch about this…bitch about that, but very good with a very wide paintbrush. A one size that fits all ideological paintbrush.
Do yourself a favor and go to Borders and read the May issue of The Atlantic. Or <A HREF="http://www.theatlantic.com">www.theatlantic.com</A>
Pete, try to get off the coolaid. There is more to being an American than being a D or a R.
Pete Schumacher ®
04-06-2007, 02:30 PM
> This is called a compromise at work doing
> its job.
No, it's called making sure you're not giving up anything that matters to you when you decide on a contract. Not all contracts are compromises. Many are simply missing the "com" part.
> Your point is lost on me but shouldn’t you
> be blaming Sesame Street on PBS? I would
> think SS (on PBS) would be a more
> appropriate hate target for you.
I don't blame any one source. Short attention span doesn't fit with real world.
> That wasn’t the original game plan. Your
> forgetting the rose pedals at our feet or so
> the surrogates said and nobody in the
> administration corrected them.
Original game plan? Whose game plan? The Commander in Chief's? Laughable assertion. I've never heard President Bush ever say anything other than that this would be a protracted war, because of the nature of the enemy and the fact that we don't just want to lay waste to vast stretches of the planet just to get a few maniacal crazies. If you're under the impression that this was supposed to be a quick operation, you didn't get it from the President.
> This is one of the LARGEST mysteries to me.
> The GOP says they have a BIG tent with lots
> of room but entrance requires pure
> ideological virtue, no thinking on your own,
> you might find others that have the same
> thought as you do and they don’t want that.
What the heck are you talking about? Do you live in the real world? Ever hear of a guy named Giuliani? How about McCain? Hey, here's one for you . . . Chuck Hagel. S C H W A R T Z E N E G G E R. These selections hardly fit your definition of a rigid, members only exclusive club.
The Democrats on the other hand refuse to allow you to speak at their conventions if you are anti abortion. They kick you out if you're for kicking terrorist **** (Joe Lieberman).
> Only the party plan as dictated will be
> tolerated. Sorry but that’s no way to build
> a party or win and election. It makes for a
> big tent with a few only lonely people
> chanting the mantra as directed.
See above statements about certain prominent Republicans. Again, your statement is laughable.
> Concerning defeating enemies and not
> compromising we only have to look as far as
> the Brits that were grabbed by the Iranians.
All the Brits guaranteed was that this kind of crap will happen again in the future. How long has Iran been taking hostages for political purposes and extortion?
> Apply your theory to that incident and
> presto you have a war but then again that
> may be desirable for you.
War is never desirable, but with these folks, it's already underway, you just refuse to see it. Who the hell do you think is setting off IEDs in Iraq? Where the hell do you think they're coming from? Do you have your head buried that far in the sand? Or is it buried somewhere else.
> Well, that explains why GB has little to say
> and rarely takes questions and doesn’t
> answer them, just wanders and mottles
> through. The press is the enemy in a
> democracy?
That's right, telegraph your intentions to the enemy, let them know your strategy, all through the willing accomplices in the media. What good has the media ever been for GW? It's been hostile since Florida 2000 and hasn't let up one bit since. If I were him, I'd refuse to ever take a question from any of them. The President is never obligated to talk to the press. They are not some branch of government. They're citizens digging for information to print. And those citizen's agenda has been for seven years to destroy George Bush, starting with the "revelation" that he was arrested for DUI decades before. Then, it was the fabricated documents in Rathergate. The Valerie Plame non-outing, non-crime, non-issue "scandal" and now the attorney firings. It's always been one manufactured crisis after another. Why the hell would Bush ever want to talk to these idiots?
> I ignore the fringe from whatever direction
> they come from. But there is more science
> every day about warming.
There is more DATA every day, but there's very little science involved in the doom and gloom predictions. Those all come from computer models that are attempting to reproduce the complexity of earth's environment and predict the future. Well, so far, they've not gotten one to work yet, as demonstrably provable by some of this new DATA. The warming over the last 30 years or so has actually ADDED icepack to the south pole, as measured by French satellites. Well, DUH. More moisture in the air means more precipitation over the desert of Antarctica. However, the computer models don't account for that. That's not just some small oversight. This is a HUGE oversight proving the inadequacy of the models, and therefore casting even more doubt on the validity of the suppositions based on the inaccurate model's results.
> Irreverent. Those folks aren’t IN the White
> House today. The point is what would happen
> today if there were a major standoff of very
> serious consequences between a pair of
> knuckleheads that aren’t capable of talking
> on the red phone but thinking the red button
> as the only possible reaction.
Then why did you bring up the Cuban missile crisis? That happened over 40 years ago. 9-11 happened only 6 years ago, but it never even crosses your mind that this President has faced and handled far greater crises than Bill Clinton ever did. This President has demonstrated excellent qualities in the war against these chickensh!ts who hide behind women and children in their attacks on free peoples. Where Bush sucks is in his handling of his political foes here at home. He lets them walk all over him, never responding, and it's irritating to me.
> Yes the media does suck. I’m up for any
> sources you have, but from your post above,
> Rush is NOT a news source. The show in no
> way is connected or associated to
> journalism.
I didn't say Rush was a news source, but his website links to a lot of articles from news sources that carry a different take on events than the toilet paper you're reading from.
> The idea of participating in a democracy is
> only a few generations old for them. They DO
> know they are being used but it’s one of
> those voting against someone more than
> voting for someone things. After being
> allowed access to education and higher
> education, many Blacks lead a middle class
> lifestyle and have middle class values.
> BO may shift things a little as far as
> Blacks are being used.
Not sure I'm following you there. BO is a huge lefty, pro-socialist, anti-war, big-tax liberal Democrat who promises a government fix for everything. Those middle classers you're talking about don't NEED government fixes, nor do any of us. The feds need to shrink their egos and quit meddling in state's business, but that is the antithesis of modern Democrats, BO included.
> Saddam was our buddy. Since you hate the UN
> I’ll ignore your UN comment. We shopped for
> intel by telling unreliable people with code
> names like Curveball what we were shopping
> for and amazingly like a good capitalist he
> supplied the goods to the buyer and gets
> some of his friends to do the same. Take the
> Italian journalist that found the letter on
> the yellow cake and wouldn’t print it
> because they were smart enough to know it
> was forged. Come on, we’ve been involved in
> terrorism plenty in Central America. You
> don’t know your history or chose to ignore
> it or have different ‘principals’ when we do
> it. Please drop the word principal from your
> vocabulary.
Speaking of yellowcake . . . Mr and Mrs Valerie Plame. Talk about a series of lies. Were I President, I'd have the attorney general indict the both of them for sedition.
> Rush used to promote a ‘correct me if I’m
> wrong’ policy and ‘I’ll publicly apologize’
> bit. Except he got called on it so many
> times and then decided to stop making the
> claim.
Again, that shows you don't listen. Right now, he's saying "The most accurate host in America by consensus, and anyone who disagrees is a Rush Denier." I laughed my *** off.
> On a personal note: I’m on oxycodone, two
> types, one is time release for pain
> maintenance and the other is for
> breakthrough pain. When the doctor put me on
> this stuff he explained that it IS habit
> forming and that I might be inclined to take
> it as NOT directed. This is the difference
> between addiction and abuse. The doctor
> explained that he has had patients that will
> go through the prescription faster than they
> should because they are chasing the buzz. He
> made it clear he would not write a new
> prescription before it was due. I’m proud to
> report that I have not fallen into the trap
> of abuse. Now in Rushes case he was doctor
> shopping, trying to get multiple doctors to
> prescribe oxy which is a crime as well as
> having his maid trying to get the stuff on
> the street. You also have to realize this
> was claimed for back pain, but the back pain
> never interfered with his golf game. So for
> a guy who treats everything in absolutes and
> has said the bad dope people should be put
> to death so far has not followed his own
> advice. There is very little if anything at
> all to admire in Rush. Just one of the
> highest paid whiners out there… bitch about
> this…bitch about that, but very good with a
> very wide paintbrush. A one size that fits
> all ideological paintbrush.
Everything you just stated about Rush Doctor shopping pure supposition. And you can deride him all you want. I find his intellect to be incredibly sharp, and his assessment of political tactics absolutely prescient. As he says, "I know these liberals like every inch of my glorious naked body."
> Do yourself a favor and go to Borders and
> read the May issue of The Atlantic. Or
> <A HREF="http://www.theatlantic.com">www.theatlantic.com</A> Pete, try to get off
> the coolaid. There is more to being an
> American than being a D or a R.
Excuse me, but you're the one drinking coolaid with the left wing socialist drivel you've chosen to pollute your mind. You look at Rush the same way I see the NYT and most of the sources you cite, nothing much to admire in any of them.
unknownuser
04-06-2007, 03:02 PM
> You sound more and more like those
> televangelists to me with each and every
> post.
How so?
> For someone quoting scripture about being
> apart from the world, you sure were making a
> big stink about how we're killing the
> planet. Why would you even care? Did you
> ever hear Christ condemn the polluter? Did
> you ever hear him voice his concern over man
> killing the planet? Talk about wasting your
> time.
If you read the Word verse by verse, precept by precept from front to back and showed yourself approved unto G-d, you would understand the heart of G-d. Christ often used parables to get His message across. You know, Pete, He often used earthly father/children relationships in scripture to help us understand His own heart. What would you, as a father, think of one of your children if they abused a gift you gave them? I needn't say more.
> Scripture tells us that disaster is brought
> to the earth and destroyed, but not by man.
> Man will fight wars. Man will kill man and
> nations will fight with nations. But man is
> never the bringer of doom to the planet. The
> horsemen are sent by . . . ?
Agreed. But, again, that doesn't give us license to abuse it. Paul taught: "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?" Romans 6:1.
Destroying and polluting G-d's creation is a sin, period. What's it motivated by? If it was pure humanitarian reasons, not the almighty dollar, I would agree with you. It's a sin to steal, but scripture teaches that if we're hungry, it's not nearly the same degree of sin if hunger is the motivation, not greed.
> You need to read your scriptures a little
> more too and quit reading into them things
> that are not there.
Give me case in point, Pete. You're being vague
> You will not know the hour when the
> bridegroom returns, so your predictions of
> end times are fruitless and wasteful
> speculation. Many before you have been
> proven charlatans predicting the end of the
> world. I may take a little more notice when
> the temple wall in Jerusalem finally comes
> down, "with not one stone left upon
> another."
Totally and completely agreed. But, here's the rub: Christ said "Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."
And [Jesus] spoke to them a parable:
"Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. When they are already budding, you see and know for yourselves that summer is now near. So you, likewise, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of G-d is near." Luke 21:28-31.
Nope, nobody knows. Although we cannot know the day and hour of Christ's return, He invites us to recognize the signs announcing the imminence of this glorious day. Believers will know the season.
Unbelievers will be saying this:
Knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation. 2peter 2:3,4
> Being a good steward, not Stewart, means
Sorry. It was late and I've always struggled with my spelling.
> discharging responsibilities, whether they
> be spiritual or material. Christ never
> condemned the soldier for being one. He
> praised the faith of the centurion for
> knowing the power of authority. He did not
> chastise him for being a soldier. He was a
> carpenter, a laborer, as was his father
> Joseph. Industriousness in worldly affairs
> was a trait Jesus referred to often. The
> vineyard owner, the king who forgave a debt,
> the lazy servant who squandered his charge
> and whose little was taken and given to the
> one with the most. Jesus was a man, and as a
> man understood what it means to be a man and
> make your way in the world. Being a good
> steward means taking your citizenship
> seriously too.
Absolutely true. Salute your leaders. Obey the law. The assumption, however, is that your leaders are G-dly.
Remember them which have the rule over you" (KJV). The ASV reads, ".....that had the rule over you." These last renderings, which use the word "rule," have the potential of being misleading, as the concept of ruling, as it is usually understood in the world, is not present in this particular Greek word. Leading rather than ruling is the intent!
The word is hegeomai, the same word as was used in Acts 15:22 ("leading men among the brethren")
So there you go. Spiritual leaders. As long as Ceasar is a spiritual leader, salute him, honour him.
"Render unto Caesar that
> which is Caesar's."
Christ actually said this tongue in cheek. And you've taken it out of context. Read the entire verse: Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto G-d the things that are G-d’s
Caesar wanted ALL things rendered unto him -- including god status and worship.
As a citizen, you
> have your responsibilities. And as far as I
> can tell, voting, being informed,
> understanding physics and appreciating music
> are not sins. Working to dispel rumor and
> hoax are not sinful activities either.
> However, those who are promoting the notion
> that global warming is caused by man are
> breaking the commandment: Thou Shalt Not
> Bear False Witness.
It's only false witness if a person knows in their heart that it is. I don't have that conviction. You do. That's OK. Someday, Pete, G-d will be happy to give us the answer, I'm certain.
(Originally posted by: Hillary)
> What the heck are you talking about? Do you
> live in the real world? Ever hear of a guy
> named Giuliani? How about McCain? Hey,
> here's one for you . . . Chuck Hagel. S C H
> W A R T Z E N E G G E R. These selections
> hardly fit your definition of a rigid,
> members only exclusive club.
Just think of Newt going to Jerry Farwell (prominent spokespersons for Jesus) to get a pass on his misdoings before God in his testing of the political waters while trying to get in the game. Just about everyone trying in the Republican primary has had multiple wives or some other moral indiscretion that wont pass muster of the religious right. Living with gays, leaving a wife sick with cancer while having an affair. The only guy without 2 wives is the Mormon. The party leadership is worried about this.
All it takes is money and minimum support to get in the game, that explains Giuliani. Just because he is in the game that doesn’t mean he is wanted under the tent. I have friends that live in Arizona that think like you and their explanation for McCain is that no other Republican opponent has been developed to run against him so he keeps getting recycled. Schwartzenegger falls into the same situation as Arlen Specter, they are in states that it is hard to get a Republican elected. So occasionally someone in the party PUBLICLY bitches about them being to far to the center while understanding that’s the best they can expect out of that state or loose it to a Democrat. Newt had a plan to develop people for the purpose of replacing those who would not tow the line. Nice idea and might get someone elected once but not twice.
Just ask Rick Santorum about being too far right in a moderate electorate. And ask him about standing on principal. Ask him if it helps when the man in Washington is stuck in the 30s % approval rating and the public is ******. If that 30% could be corrected for the party faithful that ‘say’ they still love him (who bitch about him privately) he is likely a 15 or 20% tops.
> No, it's called making sure you're not
> giving up anything that matters to you when
> you decide on a contract. Not all contracts
> are compromises. Many are simply missing the
> "com" part.
This is called a compromise at work doing its job. If not if would have taken 26 years or never if they had participants that operate on principal and only stick to the hard line. Kind of like a hung jury. Nothing is much worse than a knucklehead running on principal and not being able to think for him/her self.
I have a neighbor that is an attorney. Principal has come in our conversations and he talks about clients that want to come in and discuss how outraged and offended and sick n’ tired they are about something on ‘principal’ and they want something done about it. The attorney gets to explain as politely as he possibly can in so many words that ‘principal’ is not a reason and if you really want to proceed with this it will be expensive and you may not prevail but feel free to get a second opinion. He describes them as a “least favorable clients”.
Principal is crap that is pulled out of the bag when there is nothing left to stand on.
Then there’s business principal. Haaaaaaaaaaaa….
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