Why can't I buy a RS28A diaphragm?

[spasticteapot]

I have a RS28A, which, in a moment of massive stupidity, I dropped and dented. Now, it needs a new diaphragm.

Okay, fine. Six minutes later with a screwdriver, I have the diaphragm out.

The problem is, though, that Parts Express won't sell anyone a diaphragm. So now I'm supposed to go buy a new one.

I'm personally considering selling my RS180's and just building Zaph's L18/27TBFCG design. The tweeters are cheaper, I've already got one of the L18's, and I won't have to deal with any more Parts Express insanity.

[envisionelec]

> I have a RS28A, which, in a moment of
> massive stupidity, I dropped and dented.
> Now, it needs a new diaphragm.

> Okay, fine. Six minutes later with a
> screwdriver, I have the diaphragm out.

> The problem is, though, that Parts Express
> won't sell anyone a diaphragm. So now I'm
> supposed to go buy a new one.

> I'm personally considering selling my
> RS180's and just building Zaph's L18/27TBFCG
> design. The tweeters are cheaper, I've
> already got one of the L18's, and I won't
> have to deal with any more Parts Express
> insanity.

Parts Express is insane because you dropped your tweeter. This is why I didn't last as a Customer Disservice Agent. Massive Stupidity is right.

[jtaylor]

> I have a RS28A, which, in a moment of
> massive stupidity, I dropped and dented.
> Now, it needs a new diaphragm.

> Okay, fine. Six minutes later with a
> screwdriver, I have the diaphragm out.

> The problem is, though, that Parts Express
> won't sell anyone a diaphragm. So now I'm
> supposed to go buy a new one.

> I'm personally considering selling my
> RS180's and just building Zaph's L18/27TBFCG
> design. The tweeters are cheaper, I've
> already got one of the L18's, and I won't
> have to deal with any more Parts Express
> insanity.

Most High end Tweeters have replacement Diaphragms available, which I would reccomend most people purchase a couple for spares.

Maybe the replacement Diaphragms for the Tweeter you have in question cost almost as much as the total Tweeter Assembly, making the purchase of just the Diaphragm a very low profit item. For that reason, PE may have decided that the total Tweeter is the only way to market this item.

I realize accidents can happen, and reasons for why some repair parts are cost prohibitive to offer. You have to look at the total item cost too realize why maybe they don't offer just a replacement Diaphragm. I hope this may resolve your question.

J. Taylor

[spasticteapot]

> Parts Express is insane because you dropped
> your tweeter. This is why I didn't last as a
> Customer Disservice Agent. Massive Stupidity
> is right.

Why on earth do you design something with a replaceable diaphragm, and then not sell anyone any replacements? If I go to my local Honda dealer, he does not have any trouble getting a new timing belt or water pump for a Civic.

Besides, Parts Express has the driver custom-made for them. It's the house brand. Were I to ask, say, Tymphany (makers of Peerless, Vifa, and Scan-Speak) where I could get a diaphragm for a tweeter, I'd be willing to bet they'd be a bit more helpful.

Also, I'm willing to pay for it.

[spasticteapot]

Considering the nature of the diaphragm (it weighs about two grams), compared to the nature of the rest of the tweeter (which is a massive hunk of ferrite, steel, polymer, and white fluffy stuff), I'm willing to bet they're not terribly expensive at all.

> Most High end Tweeters have replacement
> Diaphragms available, which I would
> reccomend most people purchase a couple for
> spares.

> Maybe the replacement Diaphragms for the
> Tweeter you have in question cost almost as
> much as the total Tweeter Assembly, making
> the purchase of just the Diaphragm a very
> low profit item. For that reason, PE may
> have decided that the total Tweeter is the
> only way to market this item.

> I realize accidents can happen, and reasons
> for why some repair parts are cost
> prohibitive to offer. You have to look at
> the total item cost too realize why maybe
> they don't offer just a replacement
> Diaphragm. I hope this may resolve your
> question.

> J. Taylor

[mike1234]

You guys are teaching me a valuable lesson. I recently purchased 3 Aurum Cantus ribbon tweeters. I'm ordering replacement ribbons TONIGHT!!

[Pete Schumacher ®]

> Why on earth do you design something with a
> replaceable diaphragm, and then not sell
> anyone any replacements? If I go to my local
> Honda dealer, he does not have any trouble
> getting a new timing belt or water pump for
> a Civic.

> Besides, Parts Express has the driver
> custom-made for them. It's the house brand.
> Were I to ask, say, Tymphany (makers of
> Peerless, Vifa, and Scan-Speak) where I
> could get a diaphragm for a tweeter, I'd be
> willing to bet they'd be a bit more helpful.

> Also, I'm willing to pay for it.

I've got a couple pairs on hand. They make a GREAT match to the RS180.

[spasticteapot]

> I've got a couple pairs on hand. They make a
> GREAT match to the RS180.
Any chance you're willing to sell one?

[cjd]

> I have a RS28A, which, in a moment of
> massive stupidity, I dropped and dented.
> Now, it needs a new diaphragm.

Have you called them to ask?

My guess, though, is that because the tweeter dome is pretty well protected, they figure the number of folks needing just a replacement dome is going to be very very small to nonexistent. Unfortunate for those that DO manage to damage their tweeter of course.

C

[jonpike]

Well, it's a specially made dome diaphram, that has to be glued to a precision voice coil former, which has to be wound in exactly the right place with very fine wire, which has to be terminated someplace, then that assembly has to be carefully glued to a surround and the surround attached to a plate or some such... all in perfect alignment so it will be centered in the magnet gap.

Now, you have a component that can be replaced if it gets dented. Just because it's light, doesn't mean it's cheap. Actually, it gets more expensive to make it lighter.

Oh, you also have to add/replace just the right amount of ferrofluid (I think for the RS28) and more or less will probably change the T/S parameters... Perhaps that alone is the reason for no replacement?

I don't mean to be ragging you hard, just offering that there's a lot of complexity and building cost in the diaphram/voice coil area of a speaker.

[envisionelec]

> Why on earth do you design something with a
> replaceable diaphragm, and then not sell
> anyone any replacements? If I go to my local
> Honda dealer, he does not have any trouble
> getting a new timing belt or water pump for
> a Civic.

> Besides, Parts Express has the driver
> custom-made for them. It's the house brand.
> Were I to ask, say, Tymphany (makers of
> Peerless, Vifa, and Scan-Speak) where I
> could get a diaphragm for a tweeter, I'd be
> willing to bet they'd be a bit more helpful.

> Also, I'm willing to pay for it.

Thanks for not blowing up at my remark. It was tongue and cheek, and you - apparently - got that. ;)

[AJ]

Everybody knows you're a..hole at times Aaron ;)

[dlr]

> Oh, you also have to add/replace just the
> right amount of ferrofluid (I think for the
> RS28) and more or less will probably change
> the T/S parameters... Perhaps that alone is
> the reason for no replacement?

I doubt it. The amount that is lost is usually very small.

> I don't mean to be ragging you hard, just
> offering that there's a lot of complexity
> and building cost in the diaphram/voice coil
> area of a speaker.

But they are all done on some automated machine for the most part I would expect. Replacement tweeter domes is common, I've been surprised at not seeing them for the RS line.

dlr

[envisionelec]

> Everybody knows you're a..hole at times
> Aaron ;)

Heh. You're right. :)

[Pete Schumacher ®]

> Any chance you're willing to sell one?

That's why I mentioned it.

Where do you live?

[gibberish]

> I have a RS28A, which, in a moment of
> massive stupidity, I dropped and dented.
> Now, it needs a new diaphragm.

> Okay, fine. Six minutes later with a
> screwdriver, I have the diaphragm out.

> The problem is, though, that Parts Express
> won't sell anyone a diaphragm. So now I'm
> supposed to go buy a new one.

> I'm personally considering selling my
> RS180's and just building Zaph's L18/27TBFCG
> design. The tweeters are cheaper, I've
> already got one of the L18's, and I won't
> have to deal with any more Parts Express
> insanity.

This is exactly why I have stayed away from theRS28 tweeter. There are many good tweeters on the market that have reasonably priced replacement domes.

But when crossing a 3/4” dome at 3 or 4 kHz I don’t worry to much but when crossing a 1” dome at 1.5 or 1.8 kHz to a 8” woofer I do worry.

The RS28 dome replacement issue has come up before and I don’t recall an explanation for the nonreplicable dome.

[Mr.Thomas Aaron Hero]

Replacable domes woud be awesome, I have two RS28 tweets that are dead and I hate to throw them away. If not a replacement dome a rebuild option for half price would be nice.

I have taken a dead one apart and it would be easy to replace the dome. I did fix a blown one myself,The lead had burnt in two about 1/4" from the coil and a little solder fixed it right up. Aaron H.

[jonpike]

> I doubt it. The amount that is lost is
> usually very small.

Ah... never pulled one, didn't know how much might stay on the coil.

> But they are all done on some automated
> machine for the most part I would expect.
> Replacement tweeter domes is common, I've
> been surprised at not seeing them for the RS
> line.

> dlr

True... but I would guess there's as much if not more assembly work going into the dome/VC as the rest of the magnet assembly, automated or by hand. The original poster seemed to feel it was much simpler because it's much smaller.

I agree that it is common, where the design allows for a simple single assembly removal. Seas has most of theirs available. Usually about 1/3'd of the tweeter price. But, you got to stock them, distribute them, they're parts you could have made more tweeters out of, etc. It's always something...

[dlr]

> I agree that it is common, where the design
> allows for a simple single assembly removal.
> Seas has most of theirs available. Usually
> about 1/3'd of the tweeter price. But, you
> got to stock them, distribute them, they're
> parts you could have made more tweeters out
> of, etc. It's always something...

I see it as part of doing business. Replacing a whole driver when only the diaphragm assembly fails or is damaged just isn't good business from a customer perspective.

This is why I'm much less likely to got to Sears anymore. Used to be they had quality so that replacement wasn't as much of an issue, but they had their parts available whereas many other places were less likely to. Nowadays with throw-away everything, why pay extra if it's still to be thrown away if a part fails? Not quite the same issue, but similar. Spare parts availability makes for better customer satisfaction in the long run, at least it does for me.

dlr

[gibberish]

> I see it as part of doing business.
> Replacing a whole driver when only the
> diaphragm assembly fails or is damaged just
> isn't good business from a customer
> perspective.

> This is why I'm much less likely to got to
> Sears anymore. Used to be they had quality
> so that replacement wasn't as much of an
> issue, but they had their parts available
> whereas many other places were less likely
> to. Nowadays with throw-away everything, why
> pay extra if it's still to be thrown away if
> a part fails? Not quite the same issue, but
> similar. Spare parts availability makes for
> better customer satisfaction in the long
> run, at least it does for me.

> dlr

Just speculating but user replaceable domes may have started with the intention of being dealer replicable. Just think of that case of beer and the 8” 2-ways and some Zeplin or Hendrix back in the day when domes first became popular, being driven by a 30 watt receiver doing heavy clipping. The dealer could take the speaker in for repair, change out the dome assembly on warranty or reasonable charge and look like a hero. This may have influenced several manufactures to source tweeters from companies that offered replacement domes.

And for Sears I have had problems trying to buy a single part and they only sell the assembly. The assembly was near the cost of replacing the item and if the item was on sale about even. But the problem then becomes repeating the mistake of buying another one of the same quality.

[jeffs_partsexpress]

Dear Spastic,
Not insanity just absentmindedness... Sorry. We will order and offer for sale replacement diaphrams in the future on this driver. I guess that we overlooked this opportunity. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Jeff