HDMI cable length issues

[jeffreydmcallister]

Quick question - I have been told that there is an issue with HDMI cables when they need to run a bit of distance. I need about 35 feet of HDMI to go from the "rack" to the monitor. Does this create a signal loss issue? If so, then what is the cure? Secondly, is there a noticeable difference in signal quality due to different cables? (i.e. certified 1080p etc...)

Thanks all!

[billfitzmaurice]

> Quick question - I have been told that there
> is an issue with HDMI cables when they need
> to run a bit of distance.

Hogwash. One of the advantages of digital transmission is its virtual immunity to the noise and interference issues that plague analog. It's also why high priced HDMI cables are even more of a rip-off than high priced analog cables, as hard as that may be to believe.

[philiparcario]

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> Quick question - I have been told that there
> is an issue with HDMI cables when they need
> to run a bit of distance. I need about 35
> feet of HDMI to go from the "rack"
> to the monitor. Does this create a signal
> loss issue? If so, then what is the cure?
> Secondly, is there a noticeable difference
> in signal quality due to different cables?
> (i.e. certified 1080p etc...)

> Thanks all!
BOOSTER HDMI BOXES SUCH AS THIS LINk. A well made cord does not need to be expensive. I would buy other things rather than buying 1 200 dollar 5 meter hdmi cord.

[markk]

I don't know what the official rec is. You're in a tricky area. There is signal loss, and at a certain distance you will need a repeater-I recall seeing cheaper at Fry's, but you get the pict.

<A HREF="http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=2806">http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=2806</A>

I run a 25 foot stock cable that came with my oppo, and have since stolen it for the hd dvd. 25 feet is no problem whatsoever.

You want a good cable, but don't overpay. The oppo bundled cable was dirt cheap and it is one of the better quality hdmi cables I've bought. If you dogpile hdmi cable length signal loss you'll find info.

mark

> Quick question - I have been told that there
> is an issue with HDMI cables when they need
> to run a bit of distance. I need about 35
> feet of HDMI to go from the "rack"
> to the monitor. Does this create a signal
> loss issue? If so, then what is the cure?
> Secondly, is there a noticeable difference
> in signal quality due to different cables?
> (i.e. certified 1080p etc...)

> Thanks all!

[dthomas]

Provided Link: http://www.outletpc.com/c6634.html


> Quick question - I have been told that there
> is an issue with HDMI cables when they need
> to run a bit of distance. I need about 35
> feet of HDMI to go from the "rack"
> to the monitor. Does this create a signal
> loss issue? If so, then what is the cure?
> Secondly, is there a noticeable difference
> in signal quality due to different cables?
> (i.e. certified 1080p etc...)

> Thanks all!

I have this cable for a 50 ft. run. It works flawlessly for resolutions up to 1080i but it does there are some issues with 1080p.

My Playstation 3 drives it fine for the most part at 1080p but my Sony Blu Ray player is noisy at 1080p. The Playstation has issues only when its menu screen is up when it plays a movie it is just fine.

I plan on adding an HDMI signal extender to see if that will correct the issue with the 1080p.

It takes over double the bandwidth to transport 1080p vs. 1080i so there are some issues with very long runs. I ran 35 ft. for my brother in law and he has no issues with 1080p at all and I used the 35ft version of this cable.

Dave

[jeffreydmcallister]

> BOOSTER HDMI BOXES SUCH AS THIS LINk. A well
> made cord does not need to be expensive. I
> would buy other things rather than buying 1
> 200 dollar 5 meter hdmi cord.

Thank you!

[jeffreydmcallister]

> Hogwash. One of the advantages of digital
> transmission is its virtual immunity to the
> noise and interference issues that plague
> analog. It's also why high priced HDMI
> cables are even more of a rip-off than high
> priced analog cables, as hard as that may be
> to believe.

Thank you!

[jeffreydmcallister]

> I don't know what the official rec is.
> You're in a tricky area. There is signal
> loss, and at a certain distance you will
> need a repeater-I recall seeing cheaper at
> Fry's, but you get the pict.

>
> <A HREF="http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=2806">http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=2806</A>
> I run a 25 foot stock cable that came with
> my oppo, and have since stolen it for the hd
> dvd. 25 feet is no problem whatsoever.

> You want a good cable, but don't overpay.
> The oppo bundled cable was dirt cheap and it
> is one of the better quality hdmi cables
> I've bought. If you dogpile hdmi cable
> length signal loss you'll find info.

> mark

Thank you Mark

[jeffreydmcallister]

> I have this cable for a 50 ft. run. It works
> flawlessly for resolutions up to 1080i but
> it does there are some issues with 1080p.

> My Playstation 3 drives it fine for the most
> part at 1080p but my Sony Blu Ray player is
> noisy at 1080p. The Playstation has issues
> only when its menu screen is up when it
> plays a movie it is just fine.

> I plan on adding an HDMI signal extender to
> see if that will correct the issue with the
> 1080p.

> It takes over double the bandwidth to
> transport 1080p vs. 1080i so there are some
> issues with very long runs. I ran 35 ft. for
> my brother in law and he has no issues with
> 1080p at all and I used the 35ft version of
> this cable.

> Dave

Thank you Dave!

[billfitzmaurice]

> I have this cable for a 50 ft. run. It works
> flawlessly for resolutions up to 1080i but
> it does there are some issues with 1080p.

> My Playstation 3 drives it fine for the most
> part at 1080p but my Sony Blu Ray player is
> noisy at 1080p. The Playstation has issues
> only when its menu screen is up when it
> plays a movie it is just fine.

> I plan on adding an HDMI signal extender to
> see if that will correct the issue with the
> 1080p.

> It takes over double the bandwidth to
> transport 1080p vs. 1080i so there are some
> issues with very long runs. I ran 35 ft. for
> my brother in law and he has no issues with
> 1080p at all and I used the 35ft version of
> this cable.

Those issues are most likely sourced in the gear, not the cable. I get perfect 1080 HDTV transmission from my supplier, total cable length is about 27 miles, and the nearest repeater is over 100 feet fom my house. The bandwidth issue is the type of piffel that the cable mountebanks love to justify their pricing, but again, with digital transmission there's no almost such thing as signal degradation. For the most part it either works or it don't.

[dthomas]

> Those issues are most likely sourced in the
> gear, not the cable. I get perfect 1080 HDTV
> transmission from my supplier, total cable
> length is about 27 miles, and the nearest
> repeater is over 100 feet fom my house. The
> bandwidth issue is the type of piffel that
> the cable mountebanks love to justify their
> pricing, but again, with digital
> transmission there's no almost such thing as
> signal degradation. For the most part it
> either works or it don't.

I am not disagreeing that it is a device issue as even at 1.6Gbps transmission rates the cable length required to carry HDMI should be cheap. But since there are no standards and at this data rate capacitance in long cables is reaching a level to be of some concern then running any old cable 50 feet may not work. As I stated the Sony PS3 drove the 50 foot cable fine using Blu Ray DVDs at 1080P but a standalone Sony Blu Ray DVD player failed at 1080P it did 1080i fine. It had some wierd streaking and occasional pixelization. It drives a 15 foot cable fine at 1080P. And I did return it and tried a second player with the same result. I am going to try an inexpensive line powered HDMI extender to see if it will overcome the longer cable on the stand alone Blu Ray player. There are devices that are designed to drive long runs but it appears some of the consumer gear may not be up to the task on longer cables. I would think that cable capacitance is probably creating some distortion in the bit stream increasing BER to an intolerable point. From my experience it seems that the higher data rate required for 1080p appeared to be an issue at 50 feet at least for the Sony stand alone player. And this may well have to do with the output device driving the HDMI signal from the player.

By the way your service provider is probably spanning all but the last 100 ft of that 27 miles via fiber optic multiplexors. Also he is only sending 1080i which is a much lower data rate than 1080p. The Sony players I have both drive the 50 foot cable at 1080i with ease just at 1080p one of the players won't drive it. The cable I got was 34.95 for a 50 foot run fairly cheap in my opinion and nice build quality. Since the discussion here is around wire cables of 50 ft or less on consumer DVD players not sure what your point is about your service provider. AT&T sends 10GbE from New York to LA but they don't do it over copper or with consumer grade gear.

But it appears that higher gauge cable will help by lowering capacitance. Not to say it has to be expensive just low capacitance. The HDMI boosters/equalizers claim to work well if you need to run from 35 to 100 ft from a consumer grade HD or Blu Ray DVD player. I have one on order and plan to give it a try. Not a lot of info on these devices and actually what they do but since I hope to use the Sony stand alone player in my HT I hope it works... it claims to be able to send 1080p over cable runs of up to 100 ft.

HDMI 1.2 has multiple 1.6Gbps and HDMI 1.3 will double that rate. So this is a little more complicated than 100Mbps Ethernet LANs. But it should be doable and from my experience it appears that 1080i and below is fairly easy its 1080P that gets to be a bit of an issue with cable runs up to 50 feet. But my experience is limited to 2 different Blu Ray players and this one 50 foot cable. Both players work great on a cheap 15 ft HDMI cable even with an HDMI to DVI adapter attached for use with an older Magnavox plasma set I have.

Dave

[djarchow]

Dave,

Just to add to what you said,

Before I go any further, I want to state emphaticly that I am not a proponent of overpriced cables such as Monster or even more expensive boutique brands. My HDMI cables are from Monoprice and the most expensive one (a 25 footer) was under $40.

The 1080i HD feed coming into peoples houses is over coaxial cable which is great for transmitting video over long distances. HDMI is twisted pair which is not great for transmitting video over any distance at all. Twisted pair is however great for computer networking i.e. ethernet because of the lower bitrates (100 mbits/s)and that networking protocols are two way communicaion with lots of error checking. Video over HDMI is strictly 1 way communiction with no error checking and significantly higher bitrates, not to mention the timing issues for the three color channels.

And you are right, impedance, especially impedance variation is a big problem with HDMI cables opposed to coax. Coax usually has less than 3% tolerance from its 75 ohm spec, twisted pair is at best is usually +- 10-15%. With lower bitrates such as 720p or 1080i moderate to longer runs are no problem for even cheap cables. 1080p with double the bitrate, longer runs are where the problems start to occur. Even Monster Cable admitted earlier this year they didn't have a cable that would pass 1080p at 50 feet reliably.

A number of inexpensive cable brands are now selling HDMI 1.3 certified cables. The new standards include a length specification. So by buying a cable that is 1.3 certified and making sure it is actually certified at the length you are buying should help to future proof an install.

Regards,

Dennis

[dthomas]

Dennis,

With the cable I used 1080p worked on the Playstation 3 fine when playing movies. I have some dropout on the menu screen which is quite annoying especially since you need the menu to get a movie started but once the DVD is playing the picture is fine. The Sony BDP-S300 Blu Ray player had streaking and some very odd noise from time to time when playing a movie.

But both worked fine at 1080i and 720p. I ordered an HDMI extender/equalizer that is supposed to allow 1080p at distances up to 100'. Hopefully this will cure the issue because with my current theater set up my HD projector and hardware require this long cable run. I currently use the PS3 in my theater room but want to change it out for a stand alone player that has 8 channel analog out to support Dolby True HD. I want to wait a while before I buy an HD reciever with Dolby True HD in hopes the price comes down. The stand alone player is connected to a Sony 52" LCD HD TV in my family room via a 4 meter HDMI cable and works great. I run it's 6 channel audio out to a HK HT receiver for Dolby True HD audio. I tried it upstairs in hopes it worked better on the longer cable only to find it performed worse than the PS3.

With the price of Blu Ray below $300 the improved picture is worth it especially on large projection screens. But the HD audio tracks are amazing. I got a Sony sampler Blu Ray from the Sony Store when I bought my 52" set a week back and it has some amazing lossless audio tracks. Definitely shows that cd quality has a lot of room for improvement.

Dave

[johnk]

HDMI 1.3 cables are certificed for 10.2 Gbps to carry 180p @ 120 frames/sec with xv color. You aren't getting that kind of signal off cable any time soon. And there is already a 1.5 spec.