Victory

[scotts]

Provided Link: http://my.break.com/Content/view.aspx?ContentID=434030


I got a kick out of this video. It is about blu-ray disc winning "the war".

[mikebw]

> I got a kick out of this video. It is about
> blu-ray disc winning "the war".

Pretty funny stuff. I wonder if BluRay sales can help fight a recession too!

[cmac]

RECESSION? Someone has been watching too much NBC News.

> Pretty funny stuff. I wonder if BluRay sales
> can help fight a recession too!

[unknownuser]

I don't get it. My projector has 720 pixels horizontally, and they all seem to resolve individually with a DVD. Doesn't that mean 720P? So that's basically Hi-Def. Or is it upscaling? Whatever.

DVD looks good enough for me. Now I have to get digital TV over the air. I couldn't care less about increasing the resolution of video discs for at least three years. Blu-Ray, HDVD and everyone who pays more than $5.99 for a DVD is a sucker.



(Originally posted by: BFB)

[dthomas]

> RECESSION? Someone has been watching too
> much NBC News.

I thought it was pretty obvious in November that HD-DVD was going. When they dumped the price of their players and started offering 10 free titles.

Of course owning 2 Blu Ray players I was crossing my fingers. Once you watch a Blu Ray disc on a 1080/24p monitor there is no turning back you are hooked.

My 16 year old daughter got a job at Hollywood Video all the free Blu Rays I want to watch for a while anyway. Plus the lossless audio is just awesome.

Dave

[dthomas]

> I don't get it. My projector has 720 pixels
> horizontally, and they all seem to resolve
> individually with a DVD. Doesn't that mean
> 720P? So that's basically Hi-Def. Or is it
> upscaling? Whatever.

> DVD looks good enough for me. Now I have to
> get digital TV over the air. I couldn't care
> less about increasing the resolution of
> video discs for at least three years.
> Blu-Ray, HDVD and everyone who pays more
> than $5.99 for a DVD is a sucker.

Unless you have all the hardware in the chain it is pointless. I took the dive over the last few months and now have a 52" Sony 1080/24p LCD in my family room with HD satellite and Blu Ray player. The picture is stunning and definitely a step up. I have a theatre room with a Sony projector also 1080/24p on a 110" screen a Playstation 3 to support blu ray and HD satellite. It also is phenomenal and the large screen really shows the difference between standard DVD and Blu Ray.

Plus the lossless audio is a very discernable improvement. Once you switch and you have all the components to support it in place you won't want to go back.

Dave

[billschu]

What did you upgrade from?

Bill

> Unless you have all the hardware in the
> chain it is pointless. I took the dive over
> the last few months and now have a 52"
> Sony 1080/24p LCD in my family room with HD
> satellite and Blu Ray player. The picture is
> stunning and definitely a step up. I have a
> theatre room with a Sony projector also
> 1080/24p on a 110" screen a Playstation
> 3 to support blu ray and HD satellite. It
> also is phenomenal and the large screen
> really shows the difference between standard
> DVD and Blu Ray.

> Plus the lossless audio is a very
> discernable improvement. Once you switch and
> you have all the components to support it in
> place you won't want to go back.

> Dave

[dthomas]

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-10/1218454/HTsmall.JPG


> What did you upgrade from?

> Bill

In my family room I had a Magnavox 42" plasma 1080p and a Toshiba upscaling DVD player. The real improvement in this room was the addition of the Blu Ray player. It is a Sony also. The 52" Sony LCD monitor is more vivid but I would not say it is necessarily a huge improvement over the plasma some but not dramatic. Plus the lossless audio soundtracks are very noticeable. I output these from the 5.1 output on the Sony Blu Ray player and feed them directly to the 5.1 preamp inputs on a HK HT receiver. Switching between the lossless and the standard soundtrack is very noticeable. I could watch the "minivan chase scene" in Mr and Mrs. Smith a hundred times and never tire of it. Here is a pic of the Sony 52" 1080/24p LCD in my family room. My wife loves it.

In my media room I had an older Sanyo it was the one advertised as 1/4HD it would do native 480p. Pioneer Elite DVD player in there it had a pretty decent picture but again no comparison to the new Sony 1080p projector and Blu Ray via the playstion 3. The difference was huge on this large screen. I currently can't take advantage of the lossless soundtracks because my older Pioneer Elite HT reciever has no HDMI input and the Playstation 3 only outputs the HD soundtrack via HDMI.

Dave

[billschu]

Hey, that looks real nice. I like the speakers too. Question; If you are outputting to 5.1, where is the center channel? Maybe I just read too quickly or maybe you have it hid very well.

ps. Your TV looks real flush. Did you do anything special to get it that flush? My plasma sticks out a few inches.

Bill

> In my family room I had a Magnavox 42"
> plasma 1080p and a Toshiba upscaling DVD
> player. The real improvement in this room
> was the addition of the Blu Ray player. It
> is a Sony also. The 52" Sony LCD
> monitor is more vivid but I would not say it
> is necessarily a huge improvement over the
> plasma some but not dramatic. Plus the
> lossless audio soundtracks are very
> noticeable. I output these from the 5.1
> output on the Sony Blu Ray player and feed
> them directly to the 5.1 preamp inputs on a
> HK HT receiver. Switching between the
> lossless and the standard soundtrack is very
> noticeable. I could watch the "minivan
> chase scene" in Mr and Mrs. Smith a
> hundred times and never tire of it. Here is
> a pic of the Sony 52" 1080/24p LCD in
> my family room. My wife loves it.

> In my media room I had an older Sanyo it was
> the one advertised as 1/4HD it would do
> native 480p. Pioneer Elite DVD player in
> there it had a pretty decent picture but
> again no comparison to the new Sony 1080p
> projector and Blu Ray via the playstion 3.
> The difference was huge on this large
> screen. I currently can't take advantage of
> the lossless soundtracks because my older
> Pioneer Elite HT reciever has no HDMI input
> and the Playstation 3 only outputs the HD
> soundtrack via HDMI.

> Dave

[philiparcario]

> In my family room I had a Magnavox 42"
> plasma 1080p and a Toshiba upscaling DVD
> player. The real improvement in this room
> was the addition of the Blu Ray player. It
> is a Sony also. The 52" Sony LCD
> monitor is more vivid but I would not say it
> is necessarily a huge improvement over the
> plasma some but not dramatic. Plus the
> lossless audio soundtracks are very
> noticeable. I output these from the 5.1
> output on the Sony Blu Ray player and feed
> them directly to the 5.1 preamp inputs on a
> HK HT receiver. Switching between the
> lossless and the standard soundtrack is very
> noticeable. I could watch the "minivan
> chase scene" in Mr and Mrs. Smith a
> hundred times and never tire of it. Here is
> a pic of the Sony 52" 1080/24p LCD in
> my family room. My wife loves it.

> In my media room I had an older Sanyo it was
> the one advertised as 1/4HD it would do
> native 480p. Pioneer Elite DVD player in
> there it had a pretty decent picture but
> again no comparison to the new Sony 1080p
> projector and Blu Ray via the playstion 3.
> The difference was huge on this large
> screen. I currently can't take advantage of
> the lossless soundtracks because my older
> Pioneer Elite HT reciever has no HDMI input
> and the Playstation 3 only outputs the HD
> soundtrack via HDMI.

> Dave
The center seems to be missing. I have a question the blu ray will output 5.1 and do its own decoding right? does it have rca jacks out and what was the price and model number?

[dthomas]

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-10/1218454/JuliesHTCenterChannel.JPG


> Hey, that looks real nice. I like the
> speakers too. Question; If you are
> outputting to 5.1, where is the center
> channel? Maybe I just read too quickly or
> maybe you have it hid very well.

> ps. Your TV looks real flush. Did you do
> anything special to get it that flush? My
> plasma sticks out a few inches.

> Bill

In my harmon kardon for dolby digital I can tell it I have no center channel and it mixes the center channel into the L/R main. My center channel is in the garage hopefully I finish it this weekend. I will match the short arrays on either side. 6 of the HiVi A3SIIs and 3 Dayton neos. The Midwoofers will be a horizontal array 3 on either side of the 3 tweeters which will be a vertical array. Sort of a MMMT/T/TMMM. I am going to copy Bill F.'s write up in Audio Xpress and angle the midwoofers in to widen the horizontal dispersion. My variance is the vertical array of 3 tweeters in the middle.

Dave

[dthomas]

Provided Link: http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langI d=-1&productId=8198552921665088000 (http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665088000)


> The center seems to be missing. I have a
> question the blu ray will output 5.1 and do
> its own decoding right? does it have rca
> jacks out and what was the price and model
> number?

Yeah the center is yet to be finished. My Sony Blu Ray stand alone player will decode the lossless tracks to the 5.1 output. Actually in the set up menu you can tell it what soundtracks to decode if there is no lossless PCM track it will default to the Dolby Digital soundtrack. Most of the new movies have a lossless PCM soundtrack. Yes they are RCA jacks and the output is analog so you feed it directly to your HT receiver's analog pre-ins if it is equipped with 5.1 analog in. Both my HK and Pioneer Elite have 5.1 analog inputs. Actually my HK has 7.1 analog in but I am not aware of any players that have 7.1 analog output.

I have the BDP-S300 it is sitting between the HT receiver and the Satellite receiver in the pic. I paid 299.00 for it at the Sony Store. That was an offer they had going when I purchased the TV. If you bought the Blu Ray player for 299 and the TV you gave you 300 off in the store so the player was free basically. At least in Sony terms it was free. I have seen the player at Sam's Club in Dallas for $349 and at Best Buy for $399.

The improved clarity is amazing especially on larger sets. And you will be surprised at the audio improvements on Blu Ray discs it is easily discernable. If this interests you and you want to take the plunge you won't regret it. I was amazed at how my Wife reacted. I was going to keep using the 42" Magnavox Plasma but after seeing the Sony my Wife insisted we upgrade. Now I have a 42" Plasma in the bedroom... kind of a waste but heh if I am ever sick in bed I have a nice tv to watch.

My next investment is to get a HT receiver with an HDMI input so I can pull the lossless tracks from there. I suspect the price on these will drop this spring. I am eyeing a Pioneer Elite but at $1199 I think I will wait a bit and see if the price drops. I searched high and low to see if anyone makes a converter that will strip the audio off the HDMI and decode it to analog found one company that was developing one but it is not available. Forget their name but they make HDMI extenders and switches etc... Googled them up pretty easily. That would be handy for all of us who don't have HT receivers with HDMI who want to access the soundtracks on the HDMI cable as this is the only way the Playstation 3 outputs the lossless tracks. The cheaper option would be to just buy a stand alone Blu Ray player for my Theatre room but for now I will wait.

The only downside to the Sony player is that it is slow to load movies. It takes almost 3 minutes from power up to the DVD is loaded and playing. But once you see the picture the wait is worth it. Their more expensive player is much faster. But I opted for this one since it was a wash on the price.

Dave

[Bruce]

Provided Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=friS4OOcdgQ&eurl=http://www.digg.com/lbv.php?id=4819957&ord=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=friS4OOcdgQ&eurl=http://www.digg.com/lbv.php?id=4819957&ord=1)


The clip was deleted on "Break", but it's on YouTube. Link below.

That is hilarious - the same clip was used with different subtitles about English soccer clubs.

But, the HDDVD/BluRay war clip is far better.

"Downfall" was an excellent movie. It's hard to believe that Bruno Ganz (who plays Hitler here), also stars as a gentle soul in the Italian Rom/Com, "Bread and Tulips".

If you don't mind subtitles (or can understand Italian), this is an excellent movie for anyone who's travelled to Italy or can appreciate how a "mid-life" event can change everything. Look for it in the "foreign film" section of your local video store.

Ebert's review here pretty much sums it up:
<A HREF="http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20010831/REVIEWS/108310301/1023">http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20010831/REVIEWS/108310301/1023</A>

Enjoy

[cmac]

This past weekend I picked up a 50" Panansonic plasma, free Panasonic Blu-ray player, 10 free Blu-ray discs, $200 rebate on $50 installation package and 24 months free interest at Best Buy.

Went in with the intention of buying a 50" Sony SXBR rear projection but couldn't pass up this deal after the Blu-ray news last week.

> I thought it was pretty obvious in November
> that HD-DVD was going. When they dumped the
> price of their players and started offering
> 10 free titles.

> Of course owning 2 Blu Ray players I was
> crossing my fingers. Once you watch a Blu
> Ray disc on a 1080/24p monitor there is no
> turning back you are hooked.

> My 16 year old daughter got a job at
> Hollywood Video all the free Blu Rays I want
> to watch for a while anyway. Plus the
> lossless audio is just awesome.

> Dave

[unknownuser]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/54/Dvd_video_logo.png

Provided Link: DVD clarification for BFB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Video)


Are you ever not negative on any post you answer?
If a DVD is only capable of 480, then explain to me how you are seeing 720 pixels without upscaling?

Whatever indeed.....

I have the panny 42" 1080p plasma and it's picture is stunning to say the least.

Yes, BluRay discs are overpriced, I have to agree with that one. But my god, the picture is so stunning, so 3D like, it is an absolutely incredible experience each and every time I watch it. Sports in 1080i broadcast are so much fun to watch. I am a diehard basketball fan, but my girl and I find ourselves watching football just because the picture is so detailed (except for the compression artifacts).

> I don't get it. My projector has 720 pixels
> horizontally, and they all seem to resolve
> individually with a DVD. Doesn't that mean
> 720P? So that's basically Hi-Def. Or is it
> upscaling? Whatever.

> DVD looks good enough for me. Now I have to
> get digital TV over the air. I couldn't care
> less about increasing the resolution of
> video discs for at least three years.
> Blu-Ray, HDVD and everyone who pays more
> than $5.99 for a DVD is a sucker.



(Originally posted by: FBF)

[markk]

That was a great clip...

However, both bd and hddvd have miniscule sales, and probably rightfully so. The average consumer won't notice much difference between bd, hddvd and high quality upscaled dvd. In fact, the honest videophile won't notice much difference either...

[unknownuser]

My picture is also "stunning", sir...gosh, simply stunning...:)

The Hi-Def I've seen looks sharp certainly... too sharp, too artificial. It's fatiguing. Mainly people need to turn down the contrast. Everyone has it set like they do for an old analog television, where you juice up the contrast to make it stand out. Meh...



(Originally posted by: BFB)

[dthomas]

> This past weekend I picked up a 50"
> Panansonic plasma, free Panasonic Blu-ray
> player, 10 free Blu-ray discs, $200 rebate
> on $50 installation package and 24 months
> free interest at Best Buy.

> Went in with the intention of buying a
> 50" Sony SXBR rear projection but
> couldn't pass up this deal after the Blu-ray
> news last week.

The 58" Panasonic plasma was my first choice. But my Wife got sold on the Sony. She saw a local news program here in Dallas talking about LCD being the future for flat panel TVs. You don't know my Wife so you have to trust me when I say that going Sony was the best choice for me.

Have you got the HD audio connected up yet it will blow you away. Also is you Panasonic player slow to load? The Sony is you get used to it but it takes over 2 minutes to load up the disc counting the start up which takes a solid 30 seconds before you can even put the disc in.

The pricey player was much faster I tried it at the store but opted the cheapo route. I am really enjoying it. Got it all mounted just in time to watch Dallas get beat in the playoffs.

Dave

[markk]

A lot of this is analogous to the bass and highs turned up in a typical store to impress folks with the detail in the brass and bass. The typical hd monitor is set in the store to some "vivid" setting, and the average consumer has cranked the up the brightness and contrast to give a jazzy picture in a brightly lit room. (I'm not talking about the videophiles with good light control, a bit of calibration, etc)

Having said that, hi def can look very impressive when set up well.

[markk]

> The 58" Panasonic plasma was my first
> choice. But my Wife got sold on the Sony.
> She saw a local news program here in Dallas
> talking about LCD being the future for flat
> panel TVs. You don't know my Wife so you
> have to trust me when I say that going Sony
> was the best choice for me.

> Have you got the HD audio connected up yet
> it will blow you away. Also is you Panasonic
> player slow to load? The Sony is you get
> used to it but it takes over 2 minutes to
> load up the disc counting the start up which
> takes a solid 30 seconds before you can even
> put the disc in.

> The pricey player was much faster I tried it
> at the store but opted the cheapo route. I
> am really enjoying it. Got it all mounted
> just in time to watch Dallas get beat in the
> playoffs.

> Dave

Oddly enough I wanted to buy the 50" panasonic but my wife insisted on the 58"!!! I presume the free BD player was a BB special, not from panasonic? (I'm not aware of any free BD player offer)

[unknownuser]

I am in a pissy mood today and you were the recipient (although you do seem negative sometimes).

Yes, most people have their contrast too high. And yes, sometimes it does appear artificial. Why do you suppose that is? Is it because we are not used to that kind of detail, or that we don't usually pan around sideways like a camera does? I think most of the movies today are done on a blue/green screen and therefore are too detailed by a computer.

Although I still have to say that football and basketball do look pretty neato in 1080i.

> My picture is also "stunning",
> sir...gosh, simply stunning...:)

> The Hi-Def I've seen looks sharp
> certainly... too sharp, too artificial. It's
> fatiguing. Mainly people need to turn down
> the contrast. Everyone has it set like they
> do for an old analog television, where you
> juice up the contrast to make it stand out.
> Meh...



(Originally posted by: FBF)

[cmac]

Provided Link: Free Blu-ray player w/ plasma purchase (http://www.bestbuy.com/site//olspage.jsp?id=pcmcat140600050006&type=category)


Not sure but this offer is on right now: Free $500 Panny Blu-ray player with any Panny 1080P plasma.

[deromax]

> I don't get it. My projector has 720 pixels
> horizontally, and they all seem to resolve
> individually with a DVD. Doesn't that mean
> 720P? So that's basically Hi-Def.

You are confusing an horizontal definition with a vertical definition.

Standard definition is 720 X 480
High definition is either 1280 X 720 or 1920 X 1080

[dthomas]

> That was a great clip...

> However, both bd and hddvd have miniscule
> sales, and probably rightfully so. The
> average consumer won't notice much
> difference between bd, hddvd and high
> quality upscaled dvd. In fact, the honest
> videophile won't notice much difference
> either...

But you lossless PCM soundtracks. They are amazing. And I think the Blu Ray does look noticebly better than my Toshiba upscaling DVD. On a smaller monitor it is probably less noticeable but on 110" projector it really stands out.

Dave

[markk]

Provided Link: http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/ReallyNeed.html


On a 105" screen it doesn't really stand out!
In addition to the 58" plasma and the 37" lcd I've got, I've got an older PLV Z4. It's only 720p and the viewing distance is 15-17 ft, so it doesn't quite cut it with the newest 1080p projectors.

I'm not saying it's not noticable. Certainly, on scenes with high background detail, and a stopped down lens shot, the detail is clearly better on hd dvd. And, in general, upscaling makes things look, well, a little soft. But the difference is small.

All I'm saying is

analog TV vs HD--> huge difference even if you're legally blind.

1080p vs 1080i/720p--> small difference, requiring better equip, the right viewing distance, and very good light control.

1080i/720p vs upscaled high quality dvd--> again, small difference. There, to be sure. But small. Not huge.

Now if oppo only made a combo blu ray/hd dvd for only $500. I'll put down the crack pipe now...

See the link for what I think is a pretty honest assessment of the differences.

[Bruce]

Hey Mark,

Thanks for your salient observations on this topic.

I have an Oppo971H player, Optoma H27 PJ and a 92"GreyWolf II screen.

Seems that the critical thing with upscaling is the quality of source material.

When they're pumping out BluRay discs using the same source material as DVD's, it's unlikely that the PQ will be much better, if that source material is crappy.

I am amazed at the PQ of upscaled images I see even though the Optoma is native 480, but credit should probably shared with the Oppo DVD player.

If Oppo decides to produce BluRay machines, that would get me seriously thinking about...........
ahhhhh, never mind.