Amplifier help please!

[joshinda]

Hi there,
I'm new to DIY speakers, and I don't really understand all this amplifier business. All the speaker kits online say that eveything you need is in the kit, but then why do some people say I need an amplifier?
Do I need one, and if so, any recommendations as to any low priced ones, as I'm on a tight budget.
Thanks

[brianpowers27]

Everything you need to build a speaker is in the kit. You are correct that you need an amplifier. You will also need a source (mp3 player, cd player, etc.)

If you are starting from scratch you will need

--a receiver (Amplifier with a few extra features.)
--Speaker cables for wiring speakers from amp/receiver
--Component connections to connect your amp/receiver to the source
--Source -- (DVD player etc...)
--Speakers

I recommend getting a rough start with a pair of Tritrix (Crossovers + Cabs) + an amp like this... http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=252-100

[dubbreak]

What speakers are you planning on building and where are you planning on running them? A t-amp may be sufficient (dayton makes a little $50 you can hook up one cd player or mp3 player to).

Used is probably the cheapest way to go though. For $50 you should be able to pick up something decent. If you know someone that knows audio then they can probably find something cheaper at a thrift store or the likes that will do the job fine.

Edit: If the kit is powered speakers you won't need an amp, but that is unlikely. Kits like that are rare. Depending on the kit you will also need wood and tools. "everything you need" most likely just refers to the components (speakers, crossover components, terminal cup, wires, screws for drivers). Again what kits you are thinking of would be helpful. That way a definitive answer can be given.

[joshinda]

I was thinking of the Tritrix recession destroyer kit, found here at PE.
I know I have to build a cabinet and I have speaker wire, but should the kit contain all the info I need to rig it up to the mains, amplifier etc.?
Also, does a cheap amplifier mean lower quality and low max volume?
I've seen one set of amps called power amplifiers and another called amplifiers/mixer-amplifiers, the former of which tending to be cheaper.
The power amplifiers also have a much higher wattage for the price.
Whats the difference and which type should I go for?

[dubbreak]

What's your intended end use? What is your sound source (cd player, turntable, mp3 player etc)? That will help us recommend a amp.

The tritrix kit instructions won't cover how to hook them up to an amp. That's taken for granted and it is quite simple. Right speaker hooks up to right output on amp (positive to positive, negative to negative) and left to left hookups. Of course you have to decide which speaker is right and which is left.

Can you solder? The kit doesn't contain a pre-made x-over, it just has the components and a schematic. You'll need a soldering gun and some proper solder in addition to tools for assembling the cabinet.

[joshinda]

Yeah I have the soldering stuff and I'll only use these for music.
I want them to go loud, although not to shake the house!
I'm going to use my ipod as the source - do I need to buy a cable to link the amp and the ipod?
Do I just use speaker wire to hook the amp and the speakers together, and do I have to buy any connections for them as well?
Thanks for all the help, by the way.

[dubbreak]

This amp would do fine:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-812

And you would need to choose one of the following to use the headphone out from the ipod:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=090-294 (plus a rca cable)
OR
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=240-135

Connect the ipod to the "line in" on the amp via the 3.5mm to rca adapter. Set the volume on the ipod to about 3/4 (not quite all the way). Connect the amp to the speakers using speaker wire (you can tin the ends of the wire if you want since you have a soldering iron). Use the volume on the front of the amp to control the volume.

That's a pretty simple setup, but that amp should have plenty of guts to get those speakers loud.

Alternatively you could look for a used 2 channel receiver, integrated amp or home theater receiver on craigslist. An old yamaha would do the job fine for example. $50 should get you something that'll do the job.

[joshinda]

Thanks very much dubbreak.

I was thinking about this one:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=310-2002

It's only $70, which is about the max price I can go to and it claims to provide 75W per channel. However, there is one from the same company for $5 less:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=248-462

but it only has 40W per channel. Does this price difference justify the power output difference? Also, do you know roughly what the max my tritrix speakers will take when built, as there's no point getting a 100W amp if they only need 20W.

[lunchmoney]

Thanks very much dubbreak.

I was thinking about this one:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=310-2002

It's only $70, which is about the max price I can go to and it claims to provide 75W per channel. However, there is one from the same company for $5 less:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=248-462

but it only has 40W per channel. Does this price difference justify the power output difference? Also, do you know roughly what the max my tritrix speakers will take when built, as there's no point getting a 100W amp if they only need 20W.

I would definitely get the more powerful one for a few bucks more...

There absolutely is a point in getting a higher-powered amp... The higher-powered one doesn't have to work as hard to achieve the desired volume, and will therefore exhibit less distortion.

The Tritrix's will definitely handle that much power no problem... I used to run my Tritrix's with 250 watts per channel.

[lunchmoney]

Yeah I have the soldering stuff and I'll only use these for music.
I want them to go loud, although not to shake the house!
I'm going to use my ipod as the source - do I need to buy a cable to link the amp and the ipod?
Do I just use speaker wire to hook the amp and the speakers together, and do I have to buy any connections for them as well?
Thanks for all the help, by the way.

Plain old speaker wire hooks up the speakers to the amp... minimum 18 gauge, 16 gauge is better... don't get duped into buying expensive wire. Radio Shack wire is just fine.

Yes, you will need an adapter to hook up the ipod to the amp.

[lunchmoney]

I was thinking of the Tritrix recession destroyer kit, found here at PE.

Hell yes. The Tritrix's are excellent, and a great easy first build. I built 3 of them as mains and a center channel.

Here's a link to the build thread for my Tritrix towers... I built my cabinets from scratch, yours would be much easier if you buy the full kit with premade panels...

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?t=206622&highlight=tritrix+towers+progress

[dubbreak]

Thanks very much dubbreak.

I was thinking about this one:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=310-2002

It's only $70, which is about the max price I can go to and it claims to provide 75W per channel. However, there is one from the same company for $5 less:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=248-462

but it only has 40W per channel. Does this price difference justify the power output difference? Also, do you know roughly what the max my tritrix speakers will take when built, as there's no point getting a 100W amp if they only need 20W.

I wouldn't get either of those.

The first one is NOT 2x75W. Read the description below. It claims 75 watts max and is 2x15W RMS at 1% distortion. That's not much power. Rated at distortion levels comparable to most manufacturers you are probably looking at <10W per channel clean power.

You'd be better off with a used amp that does 35W per channel RMS, or better yet something that can do 50W rms a channel.

If you insist on new then this is a better bet:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=302-601

It's only $10 more than your budget and puts out 50W RMS into 8ohms (assumeably at a much lower distortion rating).

That pyle amp is garbage. If the speakers were smaller I'd say get the Dayton version of the t-amp:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-380

That would be good for desktop speakers, but you'll want at least a little more for the Tritrix speakers.

[romanbednarek]

I'm not sure if this is quite "audiophile" quality but my suggestion would be this Sherwood 100 watt per channel receiver (with a discrete output stage) that PE sells for under $100 (but is currently out of stock until 8/4)...

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=252-125
http://www.parts-express.com/images/item_large/252-125_L.jpg
http://www.parts-express.com/images/item_large_xtra/252-125_Li.jpg
This receiver seems to be a pretty good value, has plenty of power, multiple inputs, an FM tuner and the most important part in my opinion... a remote control! Just use that 1/8" phono to stereo RCA connector to hook up the IPOD into one of the inputs, set the IPOD volume to a decent level and then the remote control can be used to adjust the overall volume level. Also, even though tone controls are considered "evil" to most speaker enthusiasts, it is sometimes nice to have them there depending on the recording or the environment that the speakers are in.



Sorry, I just noticed the price limit of $70 so this option is a bit beyond your budget.

[dubbreak]

Even if it is out of budget it's a good recommendation. It might be worth saving and holding off on the purchase rather than getting something now you won't be happy with.

[AudioMixer]

I'm not sure if this is quite "audiophile" quality but my suggestion would be this Sherwood 100 watt per channel receiver (with a discrete output stage) that PE sells for under $100 (but is currently out of stock until 8/4)...

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=252-125
http://www.parts-express.com/images/item_large/252-125_L.jpg
http://www.parts-express.com/images/item_large_xtra/252-125_Li.jpg
This receiver seems to be a pretty good value, has plenty of power, multiple inputs, an FM tuner and the most important part in my opinion... a remote control! Just use that 1/8" phono to stereo RCA connector to hook up the IPOD into one of the inputs, set the IPOD volume to a decent level and then the remote control can be used to adjust the overall volume level. Also, even though tone controls are considered "evil" to most speaker enthusiasts, it is sometimes nice to have them there depending on the recording or the environment that the speakers are in.



Sorry, I just noticed the price limit of $70 so this option is a bit beyond your budget.

This is the type of gear I was referring to in my previous post on vintage gear, a lot of repair shops won't touch this kind of junk unless they are still covered by a warranty otherwise you're looking at a price about what you paid for it brand new.
This so call audio gear doesn't even have a phono input, that sucks!
In my book, a receiver MUST have a phono input. I'll stick to my refurbish Pioneer sweet gear.:D

[johnnyrichards]

The AudioSource is a nice amp and should do the Tritrix just fine. I use one to power my desktop speakers (which are very inefficient at 84 db) to levels loud enough to annoy me.

[Max_Andrews]

Stay away from that $70 pyle amp! It's NOT 75W, more like 30W, and does not have good sound quality.

I'd recommend a receiver (like the sherwood model) over just an amplifier (audiosource). This is to support multiple inputs and give you the nice tone controls as roman mentioned - it's crucial to be able to control things like left/right balance and bass/treble adjustment when the placement of the speakers in your room requires it.

If you go to your local electronic store you can probably get a demo model or simply something on sale for ~$75, like a sony or pioneer 60-100W model. They are cheaper in stores than online because these tend to be heavy, so shipping adds ~$20 to the online price. Go local!

[romanbednarek]

This so call audio gear doesn't even have a phono input, that sucks!
In my book, a receiver MUST have a phono input. I'll stick to my refurbish Pioneer sweet gear.:D

I don't think that his IPOD would sound too good using the phono input. I've been buying receivers long enough to know that somewhere in the 90's most companies did away with phono inputs on many receivers. Even the Marantz SR7000 that I bought new for $800 in 2000 doesn't have a phono input. I use the Marantz as a preamp so that I have a remote controlled volume and options for surround sound with multichannel SACD and DVD-A discs but I use the phono preamp that is in the older (early 80's) Yamaha A-700 integrated amp that I have for those purposes. I really like the Yamaha A-700 but I would have to say that the presence of a phono pre-amp didn't really factor in to why I bought the amp in the first place. To be honest, I would rather the Yamaha A-700 have a remote control for the volume level than a phono input because high quality phono pre-amps are pretty easy to add to any receiver, but there are complications to adding a remote control to an older receiver.

[dubbreak]

...
This so call audio gear doesn't even have a phono input, that sucks!
In my book, a receiver MUST have a phono input. I'll stick to my refurbish Pioneer sweet gear.:D

You aren't paying for a phono input with the Sherwood. It's definitely a decent bang for the buck for what it offers and running 2 channel it should put out some decent power (plus it has a remote). If it breaks is it worth fixing? Probably not, but neither is any inexpensive modern receiver. If it's beyond warranty it would cost more to fix than buy something equivalent used. Some times it would be cheaper to buy something new than fix it (labour is expensive!).

There's a good reason consumer level gear skips the phono input.. pretty much no one has a turntable any more! That's money well put into used features. Yeah I have a few turntables, but I know I'm not the norm.

And Roman has a good point. The ipod would sound like crap in the phono input. Try it some time. You won't like the results.

Good external pre-amps are quite affordable now and most receivers have plenty of inputs, so no phono input is not a deal killer for me on a receiver.

[Andy_G]

I owned a Sherwood once (for 2 weeks).. I would say its a pretty good match to an iPod.

[AudioMixer]

I owned a Sherwood once (for 2 weeks).. I would say its a pretty good match to an iPod.

Sure.....if you like listening to compress audio at 32 kbps, nah - I'll stick with analog original source. :D

[brianpowers27]

I owned a Sherwood once (for 2 weeks).. I would say its a pretty good match to an iPod.

What is your amplifier suggestion?

[dubbreak]

Sure.....if you like listening to compress audio at 32 kbps, nah - I'll stick with analog original source. :D

I know you are exaggerating, but you attitude is tiring. Claiming "vinyl is teh BESTEST" isn't helping this guy find an amp. Also spreading FUD about the ipod having crappy audio isn't helping.

On the ipod:
The D/A in most ipods is pretty decent and the itunes store has high quality rips in general and even offers lossless. Most people are hard pressed to tell the difference between a cd and a 160kbps mp3. Raise the rate a little and even less people can consistently tell. Lossless is the same as running the original wav (but less storage space). Yeah, if you had a really good cd player with a better DAC, then the cd might sound a bit better but with the DACs in most consumer level stuff the ipod will sound as good if not better. A lot more convenient too.

[AudioMixer]

I know you are exaggerating, but you attitude is tiring. Claiming "vinyl is teh BESTEST" isn't helping this guy find an amp. Also spreading FUD about the ipod having crappy audio isn't helping.

On the ipod:
The D/A in most ipods is pretty decent and the itunes store has high quality rips in general and even offers lossless. Most people are hard pressed to tell the difference between a cd and a 160kbps mp3. Raise the rate a little and even less people can consistently tell. Lossless is the same as running the original wav (but less storage space). Yeah, if you had a really good cd player with a better DAC, then the cd might sound a bit better but with the DACs in most consumer level stuff the ipod will sound as good if not better. A lot more convenient too.

Sorry, what you indicated above doesn't change my mind about digital devises such as a ipod. I have heard a recent ipod and didn't like what I heard - period! In fact, I got one for christmas and sold it on ebay! Best thing I ever did. :D

[romanbednarek]

I know you are exaggerating, but you attitude is tiring. Claiming "vinyl is teh BESTEST" isn't helping this guy find an amp. Also spreading FUD about the ipod having crappy audio isn't helping.

On the ipod:
The D/A in most ipods is pretty decent and the itunes store has high quality rips in general and even offers lossless. Most people are hard pressed to tell the difference between a cd and a 160kbps mp3. Raise the rate a little and even less people can consistently tell. Lossless is the same as running the original wav (but less storage space). Yeah, if you had a really good cd player with a better DAC, then the cd might sound a bit better but with the DACs in most consumer level stuff the ipod will sound as good if not better. A lot more convenient too.

Each format whether it be vinyl or digitized audio (compressed or not) has its pros and cons. I'll admit that any MP3 device might suffer from a loss in quality when it comes to playback whether it be the compression of the data (if it is compressed) or the "translation" into an analog signal and processing quality of the device in both the digital and analog domain. Even vinyl has some different audio quality related caveats (not linked to compression, so to speak, but "sounds" that weren't part of the original recording, like static, pops and clicks).

However, I can't seem to get my turntable to be able to shuffle songs randomly through 100 albums without having to get up and change the record between every song which is very tiring and time consuming. Also, whenever I use my turntable in the car, it constantly skips and it's even worse when I go jogging. :rolleyes:

[the kid]

The part I hate is you can burn a disc or to a hd in minutes, but it takes forever to etch a vinyl.:mad: Then just even try to erase it.:eek:

Also, maybe it's just me, but turntable stops playing after virtually every 5 songs.

[dubbreak]

Sorry, what you indicated above doesn't change my mind about digital devises such as a ipod. I have heard a recent ipod and didn't like what I heard - period! In fact, I got one for christmas and sold it on ebay! Best thing I ever did. :D

Doesn't matter. Point is the OP is using an Ipod as his source. Saying vinyl is better doesn't help. Arguing about it doesn't help the OP get to a end solution: his ipod playing through some TriTrix cabinets.

Plus "I listened to an ipod, didn't like it, sold it" is anecdotal and useless banter. Did you bother to figure out what you didn't like? Probably not. You had a knee jerk reaction and got rid of it. How do you know it wasn't just a case of your PAD acting up? (Psychosomatic Audiophile Disorder) You wanted your precious vinyl to sound better.

I love vinyl. Don't get me wrong. I have as many LPs as CDs, but it isn't the end all to audio perfection and definitely is inconvenient in general. If you want to debate the pros and cons of vinyl I suggest a new thread. Keep this thread on topic.

So what amp do you recommend for the OP that he can plug his ipod into that is ~$70?

[romanbednarek]

The part I hate is you can burn a disc or to a hd in minutes, but it takes forever to etch a vinyl.:mad: Then just even try to erase it.:eek:

Also, maybe it's just me, but turntable stops playing after virtually every 5 songs.

The funny thing is that a good friend of mine (my local "audiophile" buddy) actually has a vinyl recording device (I don't know what it is actually called because never even knew that they existed for home use).

What really makes me laugh is one of the commercials that they have for the Ipod. The commercial first shows a girlfriend who is fed up with the 100's, maybe 1000's of her boyfriend's records cluttering up the apartment. So she leaves for a bit and he transfers all of the records to his Ipod and when she gets back, all that you see is an Ipod in a small speaker docking station. Now the part that seems distorted is that amount of time that it would take to rip all of those vinyl records to the Ipod because you have to do them in real time, meaning that each album would take almost an hour to record. If it was over the course of a weekend then he might have been able to record maybe 30 records total, but I guess that his girlfriend must have been gone for about a few months for him to get rid of his whole collection of records! :D

[johnastockman]

Sorry, what you indicated above doesn't change my mind about digital devises such as a ipod. I have heard a recent ipod and didn't like what I heard - period! In fact, I got one for christmas and sold it on ebay! Best thing I ever did. :D


Hey, I'm not fond of the SQ either, but as dubbreak points out, that's what he has and his budget is limited to using that source...for now, anyway. I doubt he has a TT, or is even contemplating one in the future. I'm an enthusiast of vinyl and have a nice TT and a Grado cartridge, along with as many vinyl albums as CD's. People are amazed with the SQ of the vinyl and I love showing off how good it sounds...especially with one of the many half-speed mastered recordings I have. The Sherwood will suffice with his set-up until he can afford to upgrade. One of my girlfriends got that Sherwood a couple years ago when PE first offered it. She loves it and I enjoy the SQ when I go over to her place (of course she has some DIY speakers, Wayne J.'s DBP 2-ways and an 8" woofer sub I built for her.) Should work well with the Ipod and the TriTrix speakers. I can appreciate your fondness for a phono input (any new amp/preamp/receiver I buy must have one) and a better quality source device, but he's just starting out, so we should respect his budget and the equipment he'll be using. Once he realizes how fun and addictive the hobby is, I'm sure he'll be wanting to upgrade as finances permit.

John A.

[arlis_1957@yahoo.com]

the sherwood is what i use in my shop. plays well. i got lucky and just when i was going to buy it from pe i found it nearby for 57. use it with a 26 dollar dvd player.