New Behringer Amps

[Mark H]

Well I see PE has these new Behringer amps in stock. Anyone know of any reviews or testing done on 'em? They look good on paper.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=248-6482

http://www.parts-express.com/images/item_large/248-6482_L.jpg

[AJ]

The EP2000 and EP4000 replaced the EP1500 and 2500. AFAIK they are identical to the old amps, just different decals and bigger peak power ratings. I haven't seen the EPX series before now, but I bet they are based on QSC PLX.

[philiparcario]

good link to read


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1146436

[AJ]

Found an internal pic. Looks like a SMPS mated to a EP2500 output section. If the power supply is up to it, it should be able to put out about the same amount of power: ~2000W. Also, it looks nothing like the QSC PLX amps, or Crown XTi, so maybe Behringer actually came up with something by themselves (doubtful).

http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/fa/24207/0/

[Mark H]

Looks like they traded out the one big power doughnut for a few smaller ones and a bunch of electro caps. More lighter = more gooderer. :D

[donc]

qsc gx5's can be found on e-bay for same price , the behringer's may show up soon , maybe worth difference to go qsc ?! the behringer looks like the qsc gx not plx series ! donc

[AJ]

the behringer looks like the qsc gx not plx series ! donc

Yeah, on the outside it resembles the GX series. But the EPX uses a switchmode power supply instead of a large transformer. These amps are designed for people that need lightweight amps.

[donc]

i like the rca's and built in cross-overs ! donc

[fgelinas]

I never understood their back to front air flow with the filter on the front. That means that the filter's use is to keep the dust inside the amp! Nonsense. I suspect that their first production units had the fan backwards, and instead of calling the units back, they changed it to a marketing thing. I can't imagine an engineer not thinking about this flaw...

[meep]

Ok-- THAT cracked me up!!! If the amps are a series of different "modules" they stole from others, maybe it's an integration issue. The eng in charge of cooling (fan) didn't talk to the one in charge of the chassis (and filter).

Did I read a post above mention rca posts on the back?

Don't get me wrong, I do own some behringer gear that has held up, but I also have had their stuff konk out on me too...

M

[wg_ski]

The price almost makes me curious enough to see what makes one tick. It might be using the PLX-type amp circuit instead of the RMX, which requires independent supplies. Neither type of power amp circuit is expensive. But a good swicthmode supply is still expensive - I wonder what corners Behringer cut in bringing the price of that down. No EMI filtering? Undersized core? Not enough primary-side storage? Poor diode selection? Secondary side caps only good enough for 120Hz (not 100k)? Exceeing ripple current ratings by a factor of 15? Something would have to seriously give in order to get a $1000 amp down to only $400.

[SpasticColin]

Something would have to seriously give in order to get a $1000 amp down to only $400.

EPX

IS

MADE

FROM

PEOPLE!

(That's my best Charlton Heston impersonation.)

SC

[billfitzmaurice]

I never understood their back to front air flow with the filter on the front. That means that the filter's use is to keep the dust inside the amp! Nonsense. I suspect that their first production units had the fan backwards, and instead of calling the units back, they changed it to a marketing thing. I can't imagine an engineer not thinking about this flaw...How about the flaw of using a filter at all? When it clogs there goes the cooling. :(

[fgelinas]

How about the flaw of using a filter at all? When it clogs there goes the cooling. :(

I own 2 EP1500. First thing I did when I got them is to remove the filters, threw away the fans and replaced them with silent ones. My projector fan is making much more noise than the 3 power amps now.

[envisionelec]

The price almost makes me curious enough to see what makes one tick. It might be using the PLX-type amp circuit instead of the RMX, which requires independent supplies. Neither type of power amp circuit is expensive. But a good swicthmode supply is still expensive - I wonder what corners Behringer cut in bringing the price of that down. No EMI filtering? Undersized core? Not enough primary-side storage? Poor diode selection? Secondary side caps only good enough for 120Hz (not 100k)? Exceeing ripple current ratings by a factor of 15? Something would have to seriously give in order to get a $1000 amp down to only $400.


An ETD56 is good for ~1.2kW. The PFC core is fairly small with few windings. Overall looks to be designed to operate at 20-30% rated power long term. Normal audio peaks should not stress this amplifier, but it is not made to drive a shaker table or anything that requires full power sine waves.

[ampnation]

An ETD56 is good for ~1.2kW. The PFC core is fairly small with few windings. Overall looks to be designed to operate at 20-30% rated power long term. Normal audio peaks should not stress this amplifier, but it is not made to drive a shaker table or anything that requires full power sine waves.

In other words the power ratings are pure fiction if you're talking about continuous operation?

[wg_ski]

In other words the power ratings are pure fiction if you're talking about continuous operation?

NO amplifier made today is designed to put out full or near full power. It's just a question of just how many liberties they take with the power rating - some are better than others. Even the best are really only designed to run at 1/3 power continuously. But if an amp is only 'designed' to run at only 1/8 power at just 4 or even 8 ohms it's going to misbehave when you push it at high load outside in July.

The question is... where in the spectrum does the Behringer *really* fall?

[JRT]

In other words the power ratings are pure fiction if you're talking about continuous operation?

Not at all. The amplifiers are intended to drive loudspeakers with an audio signal. 25% would be only 6_dB SPL below rated maximum, equivalent to 1_bit change in level in the digital signal. That level doesn't accomodate reasonable crest factor. If you are doing that, then you are pushing the amp at excessively high nominal level, making clipping the bigger concern, and you need a much bigger amplifier for the application, or more likely need to rethink your system design.









.

[ampnation]

k, so my understanding has been that peak ratings are not represented as maximum continuous operating power, but program or continuous are. So are you saying that no manufacturer's amps can't actually be run at program/continuous continuously? Or are you saying they can't be run at peak continuously which only the most uninformed would try.

My rule is simple re: protecting the amp... don't clip it!

[wg_ski]

If you're always running things at 20dB crest factor then you can get away with almost anything. But if an amp which claims 3000 watts is really only good for 50 to 100 watts of average power it's useless to me - because I can build a 200 watt amp that will do that for next to nothing. What I expect from a "3000" watt amp is to be able to put out a 3000 watt sinewave (or even 2500) for at least the time it takes to measure it on an o-scope and RMS reading meter and not just 10 milliseconds or so. Preferably, long enough for the 20A breaker at the box to trip - which should occur within 60 seconds. And to be able to put out in the neighborhood of 400-500 watts of average power to the speakers (slightly clipping, with somewhat compressed music) without thermal overload. The $1000-1500 amps can do that - can a $350-special? If this Behringer can do that and not blow sky high or shut down every time, then we have a real bargain here. If not, I'll keep collecting those used PLX's and Crest CA's.

[Paul O]

What I expect from a "3000" watt amp is to be able to put out a 3000 watt sinewave

Just to expand on what has already been stated, in terms of crest factor a sine wave has zero and these days you won't find a lot of amplifiers built to deliver that for any usefull amount of time. A more common test signal is one with 6db crest factor which means the continuous or average signal level is 6db below the peak. For a 3000w signal that means the continuous level is about 750w and obviously an amplifier doesn't have to be built nearly as well to pass this signal without thermal overload or distortion.