OT: Advice on refinishing a textured ceiling...

[romanbednarek]

http://www.rjbaudio.com/Junk/Stucco%20ceiling.jpg

The image above is of the ceiling that I need to work on. Over 30 years ago the previous house owner finished this 2nd floor room ceiling with a stucco finish. It has been painted over several times since then but the main issue is the use of spackle to patch many different holes over the years. The picture above shows how the poor spackle job contrasts the original stucco finish, which is pretty uneven in general. The spackle patches look more like "oatmeal" while the stucco has a more sharp texture but even the stucco texture has become very uneven across the ceiling.

I'm looking for advice on ideas of how to refinish this ceiling. I'm probably going to have to do some sanding which could get very messy but I'm not looking to restore the ceiling to a flat texture, only to find some way of covering over the original texture by applying a new texture that hopefully will look more uniform. This room is in the upstairs of a "Cape" house so the ceiling is in three sections with the outer ones at 45 degree angles. I was hoping to go with a slightly tinted color for the ceiling, something in an off white or even light tan shade which would help it blend in a bit better with the walls and provide a warmer tone from the dimmable CFL ceiling lights.

After browsing at Lowes, I've only seen two different options which include textured paint which I believe can be rolled on with a special roller, and a textured ceiling spray which has an adjustable texture setting and has a natural light-tan tint to it. A gallon of the textured paint is said to cover 80-100 square feet of ceiling and one can of the spray covers 65-85 square feet (and each option per container is roughly the same cost). The entire surface area of the ceiling is about 220 square feet. I do not have the tools or sprayers to apply any other types of sprayed on textured ceiling paint.

I think that covers most of the info about the situation. I'm just looking for some ideas on how to address this ceiling so that I can weigh my options a bit more and have a better idea which one might be the best for me to attempt in terms of cost, effectiveness and ease of application. Thanks in advance.

[billfitzmaurice]

You won't get a good result with textured paint using a roller, spraying is pretty much the only option. You can get a very good hopper gun from Harbor Freight for only $29.95, less when they're on sale, and rent a compressor for a day.

[Mayhem13]

Waaaay to many hours to fix that.....i'd either laminate the whole thing with 1/4" drywall or find some of the old timers who do skim coat plastering....a very nice finish.

[mikec]

get a shag cover for your roller

get gallon of "ceiling white" paint (cheap latex is best)

mix paint in drywall mud -- you want a real thick paint consistancy

SLOWLY roll drywall mud on ceiling

with a little practice you'll get nice peaks, etc
It's just like the sponge system used a lot, but doesn't have the circle patterns

If you get it too thin, add a little dry mud mix

No sanding, no additional painting, not too slow

But do put down drop cloths:eek::rolleyes:
HTH:cool:

[rogoll]

I refinished the ceilings in my previous house. Once I got a little place started it peeled off real easy scraping it with a putty knife. The stuff was just barely adhering to the sheet rock underneath. Then I used the thick roller and the premixed textured ceiling paint. Just make sure to mix it VERY well. I used one of those stirrers that attaches to a hand drill.

I imagine the sprayed texture would be better if you want to go that route, but I was satisfied with the rolled on stuff. Of course, once you have this on there you can always use a power sprayer (I have a Wagner electric power sprayer) to spray the color you want.

[philiparcario]

use 1 inch by 4 inch boards as nailers.
A power screwdriver /a cutoff saw/and a paintbrush are your tools.
buy the wood at lowes. attach the
12 foot long pieces with screws to the 1 by fours .
I used minwax polycyrlic . stain the boards then first cut to length.
then screw them to the 1 by 4 's.

This ceiling has many advantages over simple painting. It is a drop ceiling I used brass plated screws and fancy washers for looks but I can remove the ceiling for wirework. The boards are numbered on the other side. Low cost less then 300 dollars in materials. I have the tools. It can be done as a one man job. Two days work. I forgot I covered up a really bad stucco job with out any prep to the ceiling except attaching the 1 by 4's.

[gc1]

To heck with it... build another nice pair of speakers!!
:cool:

[arlis_1957@yahoo.com]

i think a long nap roller would cover just fine. if not the buy a cieling mop and apply the mud/paint mix suggested above. if your going to paint and put in new carpet, then spray would be my choice. a wagner power sprayer will do.

[billfitzmaurice]

i think a long nap roller would cover just fine. if not the buy a cieling mop and apply the mud/paint mix suggested above. if your going to paint and put in new carpet, then spray would be my choice. a wagner power sprayer will do.
The problem is the existing texture; methods that work perfectly well applying a texture finish to a flat surface don't work well on a textured surface. A hopper gun works well, though you do have to do a really good job of protecting the walls and floor. A hopper gun is also perfect for applying textured finishes to speakers.

[MagicO309d]

A random orbital sander, box of 60 grit discs, and a shopvac w/dust collection hose should knock down the existing texture quickly without making a mess. It should only take 3 or 4 hours to get an even enough surface good for texture paint.

You may then want to use a good latex primer to make sure that the texture paint top coat adheres strongly for a lasting job.

I hate doing ceilings but using the sander as above makes the job at least bearable. Only two more rooms in my house to go!

[billfitzmaurice]

A random orbital sander, box of 60 grit discs, and a shopvac w/dust collection hose should knock down the existing texture quickly without making a mess. It should only take 3 or 4 hours to get an even enough surface good for texture paint.
Not to belabor the point, but with a hopper gun the job will be finished in a half hour tops, with no prep work.

[andykriech]

Not to belabor the point, but with a hopper gun the job will be finished in a half hour tops, with no prep work.

Hi Bill, is this the kind of spray gun you are referring to?

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=66103

If so, how do you spray it upwards without losing the material in the hopper?

Being able to just spray the ceiling would seem the least work, though I do like the look of Philip's wood ceiling.

Andy.

[fish-24_7]

Not to belabor the point, but with a hopper gun the job will be finished in a half hour tops, with no prep work.

+1 on the hopper gun.
-1 on belaboring the point. That is, in fact, what is best done here is it not? ;):D

[billfitzmaurice]

Hi Bill, is this the kind of spray gun you are referring to?

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=66103

+1. Only half of the top of the hopper is open to add material, so you can tip it back to do ceilings. The body is all metal, at $19.99 it's a steal.

[Mark H]

Yeah, buy the hopper then you can tell people,

"Say hello to my little friend"

http://thm-a01.yimg.com/image/f4efc3482575dd32

[Dennis H]

+1 on the hopper. The next thing is to decide which kind of texture you want. The most common with a gun are orange peel and knockdown. Orange peel is just like it sounds. You mix the mud somewhat thin, spray it on with a small nozzle and you're done.

Since you're trying to cover a fairly coarse texture, knockdown might work better. Mix the mud a bit thicker and spray it on with a bigger nozzle so it splatters in small blobs on the wall. Let it set for a few minutes until it starts to firm up and then run a drywall knife across it with light pressure to flatten the blobs. It's easier than it sounds and a little practice on some scrap will refine your technique.

With any of these, you'll need to paint it after you're done. You're not completely covering the surface with the texture.

Here's a video. Everything looks fine except I'd use a bigger knife to speed up the knockdown. I'm sure googling knockdown texture will turn up lots more info.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vY2J9SSqQ8

[billfitzmaurice]

+1 on the hopper. The next thing is to decide which kind of texture you want. The most common with a gun are orange peel and knockdown. Orange peel is just like it sounds. You mix the mud somewhat thin, spray it on with a small nozzle and you're done.

Since you're trying to cover a fairly coarse texture, knockdown might work better. Mix the mud a bit thicker and spray it on with a bigger nozzle so it splatters in small blobs on the wall. Let it set for a few minutes until it starts to firm up and then run a drywall knife across it with light pressure to flatten the blobs. It's easier than it sounds and a little practice on some scrap will refine your technique.

With any of these, you'll need to paint it after you're done. You're not completely covering the surface with the texture.

Here's a video. Everything looks fine except I'd use a bigger knife to speed up the knockdown. I'm sure googling knockdown texture will turn up lots more info.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vY2J9SSqQ8

On a ceiling that's already textured he probably doesn't need to add any mud. I have a textured ceiling that needed painting, I used texture paint, applied with a fine nozzle. I did so because I wanted to get the texture more even than it was. I imagine plain ceiling paint would be OK if one didn't want to add to the existing texture.

[dubbreak]

To heck with it... build another nice pair of speakers!!
:cool:

+1. Who looks at the ceiling anyhow? With more nice speakers your eyes will be drawn away. :D

[HareBrained]

I spent two weeks this summer taking a room (walls and ceiling) back to flat from the original bad, inconsistent plaster texture (couldn't be scraped off). It's a lot of work but you only have to sand high spots and the last coat. It's very labor intensive but cheap. Less than 10 gal. of mud for me.

They do have spray textures in cans and for just one ceiling, it'd be cheaper and simpler than a hopper-gun and an air compressor. The problem with the can is that as you get to the bottom of the can, the spray pattern and pressure become inconsistent. The best results are attained leaving about 1/4th of the product in the can.

[romanbednarek]

Thanks for the suggestions and tips. I'm still not entirely sure which route to take just yet but I now have a lot more ideas to pick from.

I'll give a follow up on some of my requirements for this project. One thing is that I don't want to spend over $100 to refinish this ceiling. My brother has a compressor but the tank is pretty small and he says that it wouldn't work well with a sprayer because you would have to constantly wait for the tank to refill while spraying.

Right now I think that I will start by using an orbital sander along with a shop vac in order to see how smooth I can get the "foundation" and actually I don't think that it will require much sanding to get to a point where any type of textured finish will look decent (I'm just a bit concerned about the amount of dust that I will have to deal with while sanding).

When it comes to application of a new finish there are a lot of things that I have to take into consideration. One thing is how much it will cost in "materials" to cover the 220 square feet of ceiling that I have. Another thing is how difficult it is to apply evenly as well as how messy the application process is despite the use of drop cloths. I'm not sure that a sprayer and compressor (even a rented one) are in my budget and that would leave me with two primary options: spray can textured ceiling (which may require quite a few cans to get the right coverage) and using a roller along with some type of either pre-mixed textured paint or combination mixed/thickened paint. I guess right now since I plan to sand the surface fairly flat that my main decision is between these methods (spray can vs. roller and which type of paint).

The only thing that time limits me with this project is the weather because it needs to be warm enough to allow for good ventilation while things dry but on the other hand I am very thorough when it comes to researching a new project. If anybody has any additional comments based on my current thoughts please share them and I really appreciate the comments so far.

[romanbednarek]

One other thing that I thought about was that it would be nice if the new ceiling texture was something that could be painted over fairly easily (probably using a thicker roller) for future needs. I suspect that a rolled on textured paint would be more conducive to this need over most sprayed on applications.

[rogoll]

Yeah, buy the hopper then you can tell people,

"Say hello to my little friend"

http://thm-a01.yimg.com/image/f4efc3482575dd32

He said "hopper" not "chopper".:D

[rogoll]

One other thing that I thought about was that it would be nice if the new ceiling texture was something that could be painted over fairly easily (probably using a thicker roller) for future needs. I suspect that a rolled on textured paint would be more conducive to this need over most sprayed on applications.

I suggest you *never* try rolling over top of a textured ceiling. Both I and a friend each attempted it with the same results...when the new paint made the old finish wet, it would start peeling off and wrapping around the roller.

If you spray you may want to try something that worked well for me. I took the thinner (1 mil or less) plastic drop cloths and taped them to the joint where the wall and ceiling met. I went all around the room doing this, and then made sure the drop cloths on the floor went up under the ones hanging over the walls. I didn't have any overspray on the cabinets, etc., and didn't have to move too much out of the area while painting.

[danklugherz]

http://www.rjbaudio.com/Junk/Stucco%20ceiling.jpg

The image above is of the ceiling that I need to work on. Over 30 years ago the previous house owner finished this 2nd floor room ceiling with a stucco finish. It has been painted over several times since then but the main issue is the use of spackle to patch many different holes over the years. The picture above shows how the poor spackle job contrasts the original stucco finish, which is pretty uneven in general. The spackle patches look more like "oatmeal" while the stucco has a more sharp texture but even the stucco texture has become very uneven across the ceiling.

I'm looking for advice on ideas of how to refinish this ceiling. I'm probably going to have to do some sanding which could get very messy but I'm not looking to restore the ceiling to a flat texture, only to find some way of covering over the original texture by applying a new texture that hopefully will look more uniform. This room is in the upstairs of a "Cape" house so the ceiling is in three sections with the outer ones at 45 degree angles. I was hoping to go with a slightly tinted color for the ceiling, something in an off white or even light tan shade which would help it blend in a bit better with the walls and provide a warmer tone from the dimmable CFL ceiling lights.

After browsing at Lowes, I've only seen two different options which include textured paint which I believe can be rolled on with a special roller, and a textured ceiling spray which has an adjustable texture setting and has a natural light-tan tint to it. A gallon of the textured paint is said to cover 80-100 square feet of ceiling and one can of the spray covers 65-85 square feet (and each option per container is roughly the same cost). The entire surface area of the ceiling is about 220 square feet. I do not have the tools or sprayers to apply any other types of sprayed on textured ceiling paint.

I think that covers most of the info about the situation. I'm just looking for some ideas on how to address this ceiling so that I can weigh my options a bit more and have a better idea which one might be the best for me to attempt in terms of cost, effectiveness and ease of application. Thanks in advance.


Roman, If I could make a suggestion I would try the simple approach and see how you like it. First get yourself a 1 gallon bucket of Lightweight Drywall Compound and a clean 5 gal. bucket. Mix 2/3 of the compound with water in your 5 gal. bucket so it has the consistency of a milkshake. Next you'll need a 1/2" nap roller cover, pour your compound in a paint tray and roll some on the ceiling slowly. This will give you a nice texture that you can either knock down or sand off the high peaks after it dries or just paint it. Just try a small area and see how it turns out. If you don't like it, you can just wash it off and your out a small pail of compound. I've seen it done and I was impressed with the results and it was cheap.

Good luck
Dan

[davepellegrene]

Thanks for the suggestions and tips. I'm still not entirely sure which route to take just yet but I now have a lot more ideas to pick from.

I'll give a follow up on some of my requirements for this project. One thing is that I don't want to spend over $100 to refinish this ceiling. My brother has a compressor but the tank is pretty small and he says that it wouldn't work well with a sprayer because you would have to constantly wait for the tank to refill while spraying.

Right now I think that I will start by using an orbital sander along with a shop vac in order to see how smooth I can get the "foundation" and actually I don't think that it will require much sanding to get to a point where any type of textured finish will look decent (I'm just a bit concerned about the amount of dust that I will have to deal with while sanding).


When it comes to application of a new finish there are a lot of things that I have to take into consideration. One thing is how much it will cost in "materials" to cover the 220 square feet of ceiling that I have. Another thing is how difficult it is to apply evenly as well as how messy the application process is despite the use of drop cloths. I'm not sure that a sprayer and compressor (even a rented one) are in my budget and that would leave me with two primary options: spray can textured ceiling (which may require quite a few cans to get the right coverage) and using a roller along with some type of either pre-mixed textured paint or combination mixed/thickened paint. I guess right now since I plan to sand the surface fairly flat that my main decision is between these methods (spray can vs. roller and which type of paint).

The only thing that time limits me with this project is the weather because it needs to be warm enough to allow for good ventilation while things dry but on the other hand I am very thorough when it comes to researching a new project. If anybody has any additional comments based on my current thoughts please share them and I really appreciate the comments so far.

I usually scrap the ceiling with a floor scraper like this one. It doesn't make a lot of dust and will knock down the texture enough to patch or re-texture the ceiling.
http://www.grainger.com/1/1/248134-qep-75006k-heavy-duty-floor-scraper-7.html

This is the brush that will come close to the texture you have on your ceiling now.
http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/5129630
If you want to get close to the same finish you will need to thin the joint or topping compound with water. Probably around 3/4 of a quart to five gallons is a place to start. The thicker the compound the more stipple affect you will get.The thinner the more it will look like the texture you have. Also will get messy. I use a 1/2" or 3/4" nap roller. Dip it in the bucket until it is completely covered, several times. Pull it out of the bucket and wipe the drip across the edge of the bucket. Lightly, if you wipe to hard it will make the roller light on that side and will flip over when you go to the ceiling and will drip, usually in you ear, pocket or on the top of your shoe. Roll about 3' on ceiling or until roller makes one revolution. Dip again roll about 3' next to that one. Do that about four times then turn your roller 90 degrees and roll over top to even out. Texture with brush. I dip the brush in the mud first then hit it on the ceiling several times to work the mud in then start to texture on the rolled part. It also helps to dampen the roller and brush before you start. I work in roughly 4' squares at a time. If you let the mud sit on the ceiling to long before you texture with the brush it will not give you a nice pronounced shape. I space my stomping out so the brush marks barely over lap. If you stomp to much and overlapping a lot you will not see a nice circle pattern.

From the pic you posted you should be able to re-texture that ceiling without much scraping. Especially if you put the same pattern on. The down side is the old texture will draw the moisture out of the new mud so you will have to work fast. Best if you have one person rolling and one texturing. If the ceiling has never been painted it would help to seal it after you scrap but before you texture. That will give you more working time.
Hope this helps if you go the roller method.
Good luck Dave