Hivi Planar vs Vifa Dual radiator?

[jimustanguitar]

I'm working on a design for an 8" 2-way floorstander, and am not sure which tweeter to choose. My instincts are leading me towards the Vifa, but I've never heard the Hivi spiral planar tweeter, have you?

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=297-403
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-1016

[Wolf]

I'm working on a design for an 8" 2-way floorstander, and am not sure which tweeter to choose. My instincts are leading me towards the Vifa, but I've never heard the Hivi spiral planar tweeter, have you?

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=297-403
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-1016

You'll physically hurt the RT1L if you try and mate it with the 8" woofer of most types. It will not reach that low in response. These are likely only good to ~3.8 kHz.

The XT25 is possible, but I also feel that is a stretch without using an immensely steep xover, and every compensation known to man. These are better from 2.3 kHz and up.

Most 8" woofers will not play well very much above 1.5 kHz, so even 2 kHz is a stretch most of the time. You should get a midrange if you want these tweeters and an 8" woofer in this design.
Later,
Wolf

[jimustanguitar]

I was concerned with the x-over point using the planar tweeter, but with a woofer that has an advertised uppper limit of 6k, I was not as concerned with the dual radiator Vifa.

Here's the planned woofer:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=296-616

[Wolf]

I was concerned with the x-over point using the planar tweeter, but with a woofer that has an advertised uppper limit of 6k, I was not as concerned with the dual radiator Vifa.

Here's the planned woofer:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=296-616

The advertised 'FR-range' spec is often incorrect in magazines and such.

If you click the "specifications" tab for the woofer and look at the .pdf of the FR plot, you will notice it will probably not do well above 1.5 kHz with the right xover. That peak is a big no-no, and should be avoided at all costs, or compensated into oblivion.

Hope that helps,
Wolf

[jimustanguitar]

Good advice... Thanks.


OK let me rephrase my question... Take away all the variables and whole-system dynamics...

Which of those two tweeters do you think would sound more pleasing (smooth, accurate, and not fatiguing) in a speaker designed around incorporating them?

[martyh]

While I've never heard the Hi-Vi driver, the Vifa is superb!

Listen to Mr. Wolf for he knows of what he speaks. Look at drivers in the 6" to 7" category.

Consider this: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-1090&FTR=830874&CFID=21595121&CFTOKEN=45748816 It has a peak at 4k that you'll have to deal with, but it's nothing major.

If the budget allows (and you've not given us much there) how about: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=297-444&ctab=3#Tabs It looks like it would make a nice mate for the Vifa.

[jimustanguitar]

I was thinking about spending between $50 and $100 on a woofer to match. It almost feels weird that such an inexpensive tweeter could be so good sounding, you know? I've never heard a bad thing about the Vifa dual radiator from anybody.

Not a big fan of Poly cones personally, but I do like Peerless drivers.

I do like the 8" driver that I linked to earlier, and I also like the Vifa dual radiator tweeter... My plan was to build a test box and do the RTA regimen to find out what range I can actually get out of 'em, and throw in a mid if needed. Again, I've never used one of them, but I really think that the http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-847 would be a kick **** midrange driver.

I'm just shooting in the dark now, I haven't done any of the research or measurements to know if that would make a good match up or not.

[captainobvious99]

Another thing to consider is that the sensitivity of the Vifa is significantly higher than the HiVi. Also, the Hivi handles far less power. Depending on the output you are wanting from your speakers, that driver may or may not work for you.

Also, regarding the Tang Band W4-1320SJ...I have used them and plan on using them in my next build. They are very nice mid drivers. I think you'll be very pleased with those.

[Pete Schumacher ®]

I was thinking about spending between $50 and $100 on a woofer to match. It almost feels weird that such an inexpensive tweeter could be so good sounding, you know? I've never heard a bad thing about the Vifa dual radiator from anybody.

Not a big fan of Poly cones personally, but I do like Peerless drivers.

I do like the 8" driver that I linked to earlier, and I also like the Vifa dual radiator tweeter... My plan was to build a test box and do the RTA regimen to find out what range I can actually get out of 'em, and throw in a mid if needed. Again, I've never used one of them, but I really think that the http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-847 would be a kick **** midrange driver.

I'm just shooting in the dark now, I haven't done any of the research or measurements to know if that would make a good match up or not.

There's a candidate 8" woofer that just might work, and that is the Peerless 830884, HDS Exclusive.

The little brother, 830883, would be a great match for the Vifa ring radiator.

http://www.parts-express.com/images/item_large/264-1094_L.jpg (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-1094)

A step down from the Exclusives, the HDS line, has an 8" unit that might work as well. The response plot is here: http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/264-1098s.pdf

http://www.parts-express.com/images/item_large/264-1098_L.jpg (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-1098)

[Wolf]

I agree, Pete- those may work alright. They are a couple of the 'ever-so-few' 8" drivers suitable for a reasonable xover 2-way.
Later,
Wolf

[gc1]

I'm working on a design for an 8" 2-way floorstander, and am not sure which tweeter to choose. My instincts are leading me towards the Vifa, but I've never heard the Hivi spiral planar tweeter, have you?

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=297-403
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-1016

There are "woofers", then there are "midwoofers"... the Usher is a woofer. Not so good for midrange, but very nice for a bass driver.
A planar/ribbon would be very difficult to match to a 8" driver... very different transient profiles. An "old school" type 8" might work; a high efficient/low Xmax/low Mms/tuned for less bass/better midrange type driver... maybe PHL makes one, or something like it. Then add woofers or subs... but it's hard to find drivers for this type system these days.

[Paul Carmody]

No one's asking the important question:

Jim, what is your level of crossover design experience?

[jimustanguitar]

Well, quite honestly I've never designed a crossover before without just using simple online calculators and whole 4ohm 8ohm values.

This time around I have the Harris Tech software, measured impedance curves, and a friend that has extensive design experience. So I have no experience, but I have great resources and want to learn all I can.

We're also throwing around ideas that are at least two builds out... First I'm building a pair of speakers with the $5 Jamo woofers and tweeters from the last sales flier, and then I'll build a pair with some nice Peerless 6.5" and Dayton planar tweeters that I already own. This hypothetical 3 way won't happen until I have the experience and knowledge from both of those first two builds. I just like to have a game plan way in advance and dream while flipping through a catalog, you know?