Baffles ain't flat!

[the kid]

So, on my new project I want to add an oak baffle to the cabinet. When purchasing, I took a while sorting through HD's stock of oak. I tried to get one flat and with a matching repeating grain design so when I cut it down it would look like 2 of a kind.

Now that I am about ready to make the cutouts and mount the baffle, I notice there is no way it will lay flat without running screws through the front & into the cabinets. This now gives me holes in what I had originally intended to avoid.

With the belief that I am not the only one who ever came home without a non-perfect flat piece of material, how do you fix this? Will Titebond II have the strength to hold down a slight warp? I was hoping to lay on the glue and clamp it down for a nicer look like a lot of your projects which have no screw holes. The baffles probably raise about 1/8" either on the end or in the middle depending on if you flip it around.

[DoubleTap]

I think you just realized why we use MDF and veneer instead of hardwood panels ;)

If you want to use hardwood, buy a panel that's too thick, let it sit in the garage for a couple years, then plane it down to the thickness you want.

[fbov]

You have 3 choices:
- try to glue it down as is (could be a bad idea)
- sand it flat
- run it thorough a planer, so at least one side's flat. A local woodworker's lumber yard will help, if you can find one. I'm blessed.

I had slight warpage in my ash wood baffles, but my design made it easy to flatten the backs to the box, and I used epoxy with a cork damping layer beneath. I still have a little cupping on the front that became obvious when I routed the offset tweeter recess.

Is the oak even thick enough to plane? Lots of clamps and strong glue might be enough....

Have fun,
Frank

[charlielaub]

You could try this pie in the sky idea:

Glue the hardwood down to the cabinet using wood glue applied to the concave side. You will need lots of clamping to get contact. When the wood starts to soak up the glue, that side will slightly expand, helping to flatten out the wood against the speaker cabinet.

If it doesn't work, you have ruined everything so be careful!

-Charlie

[philiparcario]

what is the baffles dimensions. I have a planer up to 10 inch wide if the baffle is not to wide I could plane it down flat. if it fits in the flat rate below shipping is not bad.

https://shop.usps.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10052&productId=10000275&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=10000002&top_category=10000002&categoryId=10000033&top=&currentPage=0&sort=&viewAll=Y&rn=CategoriesDisplay&WT.ac=10000275

[bobbarkto]

You need one of these...

http://img03.imagefra.me/img/img03/1/11/20/bobbarkto/f_186b2mmnnp7m_e9a8b55.jpg

[philiparcario]

I have taken two pieces of wood like this () both bent .

glue the center and clamp for a week.

use a piece of angle iron to help square it works if the bend is not to big.

if bend is big you crack one or both boards. I have done the same with bigger bends and no glue. don't close the gap just tighten clamps a bit. Then spray it with a bit of water. Keep it moist come back in a few days tighten the clamps do it over a month the bend will leave.

then keep it clamped with angle irons so it is straight. then sand and seal. oak is much harder then maple tends to crack and it is not worth the work.

[the kid]

Thanks guys.

The baffles are 46.5 x 8 x .75. I think it is a little closer to 1/16" warp.

I was considering glueing and clamping anyway, but it scares me to mess it up at this point. I may just punt & make grills. Then I can use the same holes for the screws & guides. I really was trying to avoid the grill as it will be my first attempt -ooooohhh.

But, if the little one starts crawling around it may be a benefit to have them.

[SpacePatrolman]

Maybe do what Infinity did with their oak panels:

Reference Standard II (http://www.infinity-classics.de/infinity/models/Reference-series-1+b-2-10+A+B-1981-86/Reference-Standard-II/body_rs_ii.html)

Not just for looks but to control diffraction.

Or this way:

Reference Standard III A/B (http://www.infinity-classics.de/infinity/models/Reference-series-1+b-2-10+A+B-1981-86/Reference-Standard-III-A-B/body_rs_iii_a.html)

[Ludo]

How about first laying down a MDF baffle or braces across the front of the enclosure and then run screws from the inside of the cabinet through the MDF baffle into the oak as well as using glue?

Louis

[billfitzmaurice]

Hardwood is almost never flat, it naturally cups as it dries. If you're going to work with hardwood you need to have a planer to plane it flat just prior to the build.

[WWWJD]

Do you guys think it would be possible for him to steam these for a couple hours over the stove, and then clamp flat for a couple days / weeks? Maybe a couple critter pots full of water and what not? Would stay flat maybe for assembly, then after he glues the crap out of it in assembly it'll hold.. maybe?

[fbov]

This is a trivial fix if you can find someone like Phil with a power planer. that's why I suggested it. Any lumber yard that converts rough-sawn wood to dimensional lumber can plane it for you. With 0.75", you've got plenty of wood to work with, especially since it's doubled up on MDF.
Frank

[philiparcario]

planing it flat is best choice.

[KLR]

Are you saying that it's cupped over the 8" dimension, or the 46.5" dimension?

First you need to let it acclimate to your room environment. Things could get better - or worse.

If nothing changes, 1/16" over an 8" span isn't much. I'd just glue and clamp it down tight.

[joeybutts]

Oh yeah....a 1/16? I think that will not have a problem being glued and clamped.

[mattk]

Call around to cabinet shops in your area to see if one would be willing to joint and plane your board (a planer alone won't result in a flat board). Keep in mind that you will end up with a baffle less than 3/4" thick.

[Paul K.]

First of all a 1/16" warp isn't much. Second you can make it work for you because when you clamp down the ends (which are higher than the middle), the middle part is automatically held tight. Go ahead; glue it down and clamp it along its whole length. I've done it several times and have never had a problem after the fact. In fact, I've purposely chosen which side to use for the front of the baffle so the ends are higher than the middle.
Paul


Thanks guys.

The baffles are 46.5 x 8 x .75. I think it is a little closer to 1/16" warp.

I was considering glueing and clamping anyway, but it scares me to mess it up at this point. I may just punt & make grills. Then I can use the same holes for the screws & guides. I really was trying to avoid the grill as it will be my first attempt -ooooohhh.

But, if the little one starts crawling around it may be a benefit to have them.

[the kid]

Interesting coice Paul.

It is warpped along the 46.5 length.

I did think of the idea of screwing it down from the inside. But it is a TL and there is no room to use a drill. Maybe a shorty screwdriver, but I have already glued up the sides. So, can't get in.

Just glueing is a process that I am leary of as I do not have much experience with glues or epoxys. Usually I screw something down and forget about it. I have used Liquid Nails on occasion during some remodeling around the home & I love it for that. But being here I am reading about many different adhesives and different opinions on their applications. Even my past speaker builds are usually screwed-n-glued.

I wish this stuff was more 'black & white' so learning would be easier AND cheaper. But I must go through the same trenches as many of you have!:o

[dwigle]

Interesting coice Paul.

It is warpped along the 46.5 length.

I did think of the idea of screwing it down from the inside. But it is a TL and there is no room to use a drill. Maybe a shorty screwdriver, but I have already glued up the sides. So, can't get in.

Just glueing is a process that I am leary of as I do not have much experience with glues or epoxys. Usually I screw something down and forget about it. I have used Liquid Nails on occasion during some remodeling around the home & I love it for that. But being here I am reading about many different adhesives and different opinions on their applications. Even my past speaker builds are usually screwed-n-glued.

I wish this stuff was more 'black & white' so learning would be easier AND cheaper. But I must go through the same trenches as many of you have!:o

A 1/16" over 46" should be nothing to worry about. Use titebond II or really any good carpenter's glue, coat both surfaces, use enough to squeeze out glue along the joint and use lots of clamps.

I have had more warp than that using plywood and mdf and flattened it with clamping pressure with no problem. Personally, I would pull down the middle rather than pulling down the ends.

If it is worse, much worse you could find someone with a planer or a cabinet shop with a wide belt sander. I had a cabinet shop flatten and sand a 96" x 38" x 2" table top I glued up. He charged me $20. It took two passes on each side and took all of 5 minutes.

[davepellegrene]

So, on my new project I want to add an oak baffle to the cabinet. When purchasing, I took a while sorting through HD's stock of oak. I tried to get one flat and with a matching repeating grain design so when I cut it down it would look like 2 of a kind.

Now that I am about ready to make the cutouts and mount the baffle, I notice there is no way it will lay flat without running screws through the front & into the cabinets. This now gives me holes in what I had originally intended to avoid.

With the belief that I am not the only one who ever came home without a non-perfect flat piece of material, how do you fix this? Will Titebond II have the strength to hold down a slight warp? I was hoping to lay on the glue and clamp it down for a nicer look like a lot of your projects which have no screw holes. The baffles probably raise about 1/8" either on the end or in the middle depending on if you flip it around.

Try clamping it down without glue. If you can get a tight fit with clamps the glue will hold. this will give you a change to see which direction will fit the tightest. A good glue joint is stronger then the wood.
Dave

[robwest]

Lots of glue and clamps. 1/16ths" over almost 5 ft will flex very easily for a flat, tight fit.

[billfitzmaurice]

Do you guys think it would be possible for him to steam these for a couple hours over the stove, and then clamp flat for a couple days / weeks? Maybe a couple critter pots full of water and what not? Would stay flat maybe for assembly, then after he glues the crap out of it in assembly it'll hold.. maybe?
It would eventually bend back to where it wants to be. The only way to get flat hardwood is to let it season for literally a couple of years after it's cut to raw size and then plane it. But few lumber mills will do that, they'll kiln dry it for a few days and then mill it, the result being that within months, if not weeks, the board will cup to the shape dictated by wood's rings. Furniture manufacturers season their own wood so that doesn't happen.

[Paul K.]

[QUOTE=dwigle;I have had more warp than that using plywood and mdf and flattened it with clamping pressure with no problem. Personally, I would pull down the middle rather than pulling down the ends.

Actually I've done both, pulled down the middle or pulled down the ends. Intuitively, it just seems to me that pulling down the ends is better but I won't argue about it.
Paul

[davepellegrene]

[QUOTE=dwigle;I have had more warp than that using plywood and mdf and flattened it with clamping pressure with no problem. Personally, I would pull down the middle rather than pulling down the ends.

Actually I've done both, pulled down the middle or pulled down the ends. Intuitively, it just seems to me that pulling down the ends is better but I won't argue about it.
Paul

I'm a little confussed on the way he is saying the board is warped. I thought originally it was cupped across the width. He then states it is warped on the length of the board.

If its the length you should be able to push it down by hand. If its the width I would say it depending on the width of the baffle on the way to glue it down. If its a wide baffle pull down the edges. If it is narrow enough for the clamps to reach the center I would clamp down the center. That would be so the center is crowned up that would ensure you would get a nice tight fit on the edges. IMO. Just looked the baffles are 8" wide. You would have to have deep clamps to reach the center.
Dave

[the kid]

So, as I was at HD looking into various fillers & such, one of the painting employees who has been there for awhile in the SAME department came over to help me. We talked a little and he offered a solution that he has supposedly done for hiding blemishes/holes/scratches in wood. It is a try that I am going to work on this weekend. I will let you know how it turns out.

Thanks for the assurance that clamping & glueing should work for me. One fine gentleman has offered for me to come to his shop for help. I never thought of dry clamping the baffle down to see how much it takes to lay flat. (thus I feel aptly in sync with my signature tag line:o) This is exactly why I need this forum. I will only do just so much damage before seeking help.

[Paul K.]

I think it's clear the warping is along the baffle's length, not its width.
Paul


[QUOTE=Paul K.;1624313]

I'm a little confussed on the way he is saying the board is warped. I thought originally it was cupped across the width. He then states it is warped on the length of the board.

If its the length you should be able to push it down by hand. If its the width I would say it depending on the width of the baffle on the way to glue it down. If its a wide baffle pull down the edges. If it is narrow enough for the clamps to reach the center I would clamp down the center. That would be so the center is crowned up that would ensure you would get a nice tight fit on the edges. IMO. Just looked the baffles are 8" wide. You would have to have deep clamps to reach the center.
Dave