AU265 Vairiants *Pics*

[stangbat]

I figured this warranted a new thread. Today I received my AU265s from ThingFling, the speakers discussed here (http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?t=214186). There are two different versions of this speaker. One is like the version John measured and wrote up on his Zaph Audio blog, the other has a different crossover, the woofers are smaller, and the enclosure is smaller.

Crossover schematics are at the end of this post. I will measure the unknown component values when I get my LCR meter next week. Unfortunately I don't have a WT3 so I can't easily measure T/S parameters on the different woofers.

In the pictures below, the one I'm calling the variant is the one that is different than what has been documented on Zaph Audio.

First, binding posts are different, variant on the left. Mounting screws are different for the posts and the drivers. Torx vs. Phillips on the variant.

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/8866/dsc5879large.jpg

The woofer frames are different sizes, the woofer cones themselves are very close to the same size, if not the same size. The version most of you have and that was documented on Zaph Audio has the following dimensions:

A: 6 7/8" (175mm)
B: 7 5/8" (194mm)
Enclosure: 8" x 12 9/16" x 38 5/8"

The variant version has the following dimensions:

A: 6 3/8" (163mm)
B: 7 1/8" (180mm)
Enclosure: 7 1/2" x 12 11/16" x 38 5/8"

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/6366/wooferdimensions.gif

Surrounds are different, variant on the right:

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/3158/dsc5882large.jpg

Frames, variant on the right. I can see that the spider material's weave is a little different. If I shine light through the woofers, the Kevlar looks a little lighter in color on the variant.

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/2479/dsc5884large.jpg

Crossovers, variant on the right. Also notice that the variant crossover was hot glued. PITA to get it out.

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/5643/dsc5885large.jpg

Close up of variant with traces. I could have cleaned it up to make it a little easier to read, but I think this lets you see that the inductors for the upper woofer really are in parallel (unless I'm completely nuts).

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/1586/variantcrossovertraces.jpg

Back of variant crossover:

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/2112/dsc5888large.jpg

Edits below with additional information:

If someone near KC also has mis-matched speakers, I'll swap to get a matched pair. I don't care which.

Grill frame mounts are a little different and aren't interchangeable. I now realize this is because the enclosures are different widths.

Ports appear to be the same between the two versions.

Here is my take of the variant crossover. I know you are going to think I am crazy with the parallel inductors in the mid woofer network. They must have done it for power handling, I'm pretty sure that is the way it is. Believe me, I've been scratching my head over it.

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/1467/variantcrossover.gif

Zaph's modified crossover can be found here (http://www.zaphaudio.com/temp/Unisound-AU265-new-crossover.gif) for comparison.

[enhanced1]

That is so weird! Is it me or is the cabinet color a slight different too?

[stangbat]

That is so weird! Is it me or is the cabinet color a slight different too?

Yes, cabinets are slightly different color. I didn't even notice until they were right next to each other.

[PassingInterest]

I'm shocked at the significant differences between your two speakers/drivers/crossovers.
That stinks!
I hope they at least sound the same.

I haven't looked inside mine yet, but the backs all have the Red and Black Plastic connectors, along with the sticker that reads, "Unisound," on it, like one of yours does.

I'll post again after I look inside the cabinets.

[Æ]

Which one sounds better?

[mattk]

Just a WAG here, but I'm betting that the variant is an older model. It has more components in the x-over, which translates to higher cost. Mfgrs are always looking to cut costs, not raise them.

[stangbat]

Which one sounds better?

I don't know. I hooked them up just to see if they worked because I was planning on modifying the crossover. It was then that I noticed the different binding posts. I didn't think much of it. Once I pulled the crossover I knew that something was different and then I noticed that the woofers were different.


Just a WAG here, but I'm betting that the variant is an older model. It has more components in the x-over, which translates to higher cost. Mfgrs are always looking to cut costs, not raise them.

You are probably right. I think the binding posts on the variant look more expensive. And yes, I imagine that the is an earlier model due to the extra components, also the poly cap in the tweeter network is a Bennic. That's not the case on the other one.

[patrickm]

pretty interesting. i guess if you replace or otherwise make the crossovers identical, you could swap one type of woofer to the .5-way and the other to the 2-way position, and at least they'd be the same on each side. you could also take the binding posts out of one of the PE terminal cups (they have a bi-wire/bi-amp one for $6) and just unscrew the actual posts from one of yours. then they'd look identical. well, if you moved them more than about 4 feet apart...

[Erich H]

Hey, guess what? I've got the mixed match set like you!

The packaging boxes were different, I noticed that right off the bat. The older style box had the "variant" in it.

Let me know what you want to do.

One slight problem though. The older looking box didn't have as good of packaging as the the newer one and it did get some damage, but I'll have to post a photo because it's mostly on the bottom of the speaker.

I personally don't care that much. I contacted the company when I unpacked them yesterday. Hopefully they'll respond Monday.

[Brewski]

Thanks for Posting it Stang. Both of the cherry ones I ordered match what Zaph tested my guess is since we were getting in on the last batches we're more likely to see mismatches and slight blemishes. Good luck with the project are you going to redo both or one crossover?

[stangbat]

The packaging boxes were different, I noticed that right off the bat. The older style box had the "variant" in it.

Let me know what you want to do.


My boxes were the same, but the packaging (styrofoam) was a little different between the two.

As for what to do, I'm on the west side of KC. Where are you?


Good luck with the project are you going to redo both or one crossover?

I'm not sure what I'm going to do. It depends on if I can get the woofers tested. I may do something like patrickm suggested if nothing else. Right now I'm trying to figure out the crossover on the variant. It is messing with my head.

I'm editing the first post to add new information as I get it.

[Erich H]

As for what to do, I'm on the west side of KC. Where are you?



I'm on the west side of KC too! Okay, that's a lie just to get your hopes up, sorry. :D

I'm actually in Cincinnati Ohio.

Hey, don't go tearing those things apart yet! One of them might be mine!!! :D

[stangbat]

I'm on the west side of KC too! Okay, that's a lie just to get your hopes up, sorry. :D

I'm actually in Cincinnati Ohio.

Hey, don't go tearing those things apart yet! One of them might be mine!!! :D

That's a ways away! Let me get the crossover figured out and see if we can get some more input. Would you consider swapping woofers, crossovers, and binding posts so we can both have matched pairs?

[Erich H]

Found a link that might shed some light on the old crossovers:

http://www.audioholics.com/news/trade-show-coverage/2005-consumer-electronics-show-ces/unisound-loudspeakers-redesigned-for-improved-performance

I wonder if the older speakers are the ones that didn't sound quite right in this review? But going by the crossover posted above, it does look like some work might have been done to it later?

Actually, they might have been testing the SP18. But the photo shows that and one AU265, so who knows.

[stangbat]

Found a link that might shed some light on the old crossovers:

http://www.audioholics.com/news/trade-show-coverage/2005-consumer-electronics-show-ces/unisound-loudspeakers-redesigned-for-improved-performance

I wonder if the older speakers are the ones that didn't sound quite right in this review? But going by the crossover posted above, it does look like some work might have been done to it later?

Actually, they might have been testing the SP18. But the photo shows that and one AU265, so who knows.

I think that article is discussing a different speaker, the SP18 as you say. From looking at the variant crossover, I'm thinking the change was done to save money. Hopefully once I get the schematic figured out we'll know for sure.

[stangbat]

I think what is throwing me a loop on this variant crossover is that the PCB's output polarity is marked wrong for the middle woofer and the tweeter. Unfortunately I unsoldered the leads without double checking which wire went where. I figured that black went to negative. However by following the PCB traces for the mid woofer and tweeter, input negative goes to what is marked output positive on the PCB. I don't think the tweeter and middle woofer polarity is reversed, I think they used a generic PCB that has the polarity marked wrong for this application.

If you take your apart, Erich H, can you verify which wires go where? Or someone else?

[PassingInterest]

I'm no expert and I cannot say authoritatively, but I have read that depending on the crossover slope or type, sometimes you have to reverse the polarity on individual drivers.
So, that part might be right.

I suspect the Audioholics article supplied by Erich gave us the answer to the different crossover mystery--even though they were discussing a different speaker in the article.
You can believe the problem went across the board and affected every speaker model at the company.
According to the article, the first crossover was designed for a flat impedance curve, while the second design was for a flatter frequency response.

[stangbat]

I'm no expert and I cannot say authoritatively, but I have read that depending on the crossover slope or type, sometimes you have to reverse the polarity on individual drivers.
So, that part might be right.

I suspect the Audioholics article supplied by Erich gave us the answer to the different crossover mystery--even though they were discussing a different speaker in the article.
You can believe the problem went across the board and affected every speaker model at the company.
According to the article, the first crossover was designed for a flat impedance curve, while the second design was for a flatter frequency response.

Yes, I have built crossovers that have reversed polarity, but in this case I don't believe the speaker polarity is reversed. I can follow the traces and see ground in and ground out as well as the other grounds connecting to the same trace. And if I look at pictures of the other crossover version, the ground out goes to the + terminal for the tweeter and middle woofer and the wire is black instead of red.

Here is my take of the variant crossover. I won't have the inductor values until my LCR meter shows up next week. I also need to verify the resistors and there is a capacitor that is not marked with anything that makes sense so I'll have to measure it too. I know you are going to think I am crazy with the parallel inductors in the mid woofer network. I can't explain it, I'm pretty sure that is the way it is. Believe me, I've been scratching my head over it. I'm going to also place this in the first post.

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/1467/variantcrossover.gif

[evilskillit]

Bummer man, thats pretty annoying that there are two different types and you got one of each. I know quite a few people in KC who tried to order but couldnt due to the web site crashing after early morning. If any of us manage to get our hands on them one way or another we'll let you know if we get mismatches. Btw I've got an LCR meter if you need to check these things out. But I guess if you already have one on the way don't worry about it.

[Erich H]

For what it's worth, I could hear a difference in the highs between the 2 speakers. I thought I might have gotten 2 different crossovers even before I found this thread. Oddly enough though, I thought the older unit had more pronounced high frequencies. So if Zaph said the current speaker needed a 3db drop, then the older models might need even more. BUT, I'm just going from memory on which one it was. I heard the difference a few minutes before shutting them off. I'll do more listening tomorrow.


I built some "kit" speakers from NHT last year and they had prebuilt crossovers.

Following the PCB and it's markings, I thought the + and - were wrong on the board (they were). Just to double check, I e-mailed the guy that designed the kit and he said it was common practice for NHT to reverse polarities on their PCB's. As if they did it all the time for some reason.

I can open up the older speaker tomorrow. Where's the crossover? I assume it's behind the lower woofer?

[PassingInterest]

You gotta remove both woofers anyway.
Zaph said to put some stuffing in both compartments.

[stangbat]

I can open up the older speaker tomorrow. Where's the crossover? I assume it's behind the lower woofer?

Yes, it is behind the lower woofer. On the Zaph version it is held in place with screws. With the other version it is hot glued and is kind of a pain to remove. I had to use a screwdriver and mash around the edges of the glue to loosen it.

On the variant, I loosened the binding plate and pushed it through the back. You can then lift out the crossover although there isn't a lot of extra wire and you can barely get it outside the speaker. The Zaph version's crossover will come completely out of the enclosure because there is a little more wire to work with.

I didn't listen to mine long enough to hear a difference between the two. I already had the parts to modify the crossovers per the Zaph design. I didn't realize I had two different speakers, I was just checking them to make sure that they worked fine and then I was going to solder in the new parts. When I started taking them apart I realized they were different.

[J.Lee]

We all got a deal but this situation kind of sours me on 'ThingFling'.

Fortunately I at least got matching undamaged cabs... now I'm going to have to take a closer look to make sure all else matches.

[emrliquidlife]

I'm going to take apart each one of mine, but I need to get some time to do this.

So, we have a thread to discuss the AU265 speaker and another thread to discuss the variant of the AU265? I think it should all be kept together, but that is my two cents.

Sorry to hear about the damage that is being seen on these last sets of incoming speakers. I had some significant water damage on my boxes, but the both sets of speakers were fine.

Ed

[stangbat]

So, we have a thread to discuss the AU265 speaker and another thread to discuss the variant of the AU265? I think it should all be kept together, but that is my two cents.
That other thread is about are they a good guy, are they a good speaker, did you get them, are they damaged, and the tweaks. This thread is about the differences between the two. Different topics, and I don't see a reason to clutter up the other thread with this issue. Just my opinion, and its why I started a new thread.


We all got a deal but this situation kind of sours me on 'ThingFling'.
ThingFling has no way to know they were slightly different and it isn't their fault at all. It is just a risk you agree to take when you go for a deal like this.

[stangbat]

I updated the first post with the crossover traces and current known values. I could have cleaned it up to make it a little easier to read, but I think this lets you see that the inductors for the upper woofer really are in parallel (unless I'm completely nuts).

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/1586/variantcrossovertraces.jpg

[PassingInterest]

Stangbat, help me clear up my confusion.

My woofers measure the same as what you have identfied as the Variant measurements, yet they physically do not look like the Variants--no curvy parts in the basket.

Are you sure you didn't accidentally swap measurements?
Up until now, every thing you've identified as the Variant--sure enough, mine are not like that.
But, the measurements across the woofers and boxes--those are my measurements, but nothing else matches what you've said about the Variants.

Would you double-check which measurements go with which?
Because right now, I'm confused.

[stangbat]

Stangbat, help me clear up my confusion.

My woofers measure the same as what you have identfied as the Variant measurements, yet they physically do not look like the Variants--no curvy parts in the basket.

Are you sure you didn't accidentally swap measurements?
Up until now, every thing you've identified as the Variant--sure enough, mine are not like that.
But, the measurements across the woofers and boxes--those are my measurements, but nothing else matches what you've said about the Variants.

Would you double-check which measurements go with which?
Because right now, I'm confused.

Sorry, fixed it while you were posting this. I messed up. I was not happy about the difference, it makes getting a matched pair that much more difficult. In my frustration, I got mixed up as to which was which. This thread and the other main thread about the AU265 should now have the correct information.

[PassingInterest]

By the way, you have done one heck of a great job in documenting the differences between the two different versions, Stangbat.

Oh, so which LCR meter did you go with?

Let us know how it performs once you get it.

[stangbat]

By the way, you have done one heck of a great job in documenting the differences between the two different versions, Stangbat.
After all the comparing, back and forth between the two, and my frustration, I'm surprised I didn't mess something up before now. :D



Oh, so which LCR meter did you go with?

Let us know how it performs once you get it.
This one. (http://www.bestofferbuy.com/4070L-21-LCD-3-12-Digital-LCR-Multimeter-p-29306.html?currency=USD) It is coming from China so it is taking a while to get here. Hopefully it will work good.

[PassingInterest]

I hope the instructions were translated well for your new meter, Stang.
There's some additional frustration you really don't need.

[diynut]

I also received a mismatched pair of the light oak AU265.
Both speakers are in immaculate condition. The finish is beautiful.

*** If there is any one in California/Nevada interested in swapping one of these AU265 speakers, please let me know. ***

Stangbat, great job in documenting the differences between the 2 versions of the AU265.

[stangbat]

I just got an email from ThingFling apologizing for sending non matching speakers.


We are not sure that we have a replacement available for you at this time.

We are going to check our inventory and get back to you as soon as we have an answer.

So the chances of getting a matching pair from TF are probably nil. Swapping looks to be the best bet unless you are lucky enough to get another speaker from TF.

[emrliquidlife]

I just got an email from ThingFling apologizing for sending non matching speakers.



So the chances of getting a matching pair from TF are probably nil. Swapping looks to be the best bet unless you are lucky enough to get another speaker from TF.

That stinks. I wonder if they will pay to have them shipped back?

Hope it works out well.

[stangbat]

That stinks. I wonder if they will pay to have them shipped back?

I didn't ask at this point, I was just wondering if they even had them. But I imagine I'd have to pay.

The maddening thing is when I ordered these I initially put cherry speakers in my cart. I got all the way to the final button click on checkout and decided to go with light oak, backed out, and changed the order. If only I'd stuck with cherry... :(

[stangbat]

An update to the saga of the mismatched AU265s. Forum member Erich H and myself swapped speakers so that we'd both have matching pairs. I now have a pair of the variant speakers.

I got some listening time in this afternoon and the tweeters are hot on them just like the version Zaph detailed. So now the question is, should I do the same crossover mods to the tweeter network as what Zaph detailed? I already have the capacitors and resistors to do the mod. The crossovers are different (see first post), but the tweeters are the same.

Erich and I managed to outfox UPS and get both speakers shipped with no additional damage. It was done by way of the specially crafted and one of a kind Stangbat Armored Box. Once Erich received his speaker, he packed mine in the same box and shipped it back to me in KC. So this box made a complete round trip with no damage to either speaker. It does look a little worse for the wear.

Armored box construction:

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/9891/dsc5892large.jpg

[PassingInterest]

I'm surprised the delivery service personnel didn't see your armored box as a challenge. Oh wait, you went with UPS. They usually are more careful.

I say give the mod a try, since you already have the parts.
Let us know how it goes.

[evilskillit]

Glad to hear you at least got your matching speaker. That box you made looks pretty BA, having worked in a warehouse before and knowing what boxes go through I wish everything I bought came in one of those.

[CW Lindsey]

avg of three readings on WT3
Re=5.2 ohm
Fs=45.7 hz
Qts=.3900
Qes=.4600
Qms=2.56
Le=.36 mh

[Phil_RC_1]

avg of three readings on WT3
Re=5.2 ohm
Fs=45.7 hz
Qts=.3900
Qes=.4600
Qms=2.56
Le=.36 mh


Really need the Vas to do any modeling of those drivers. But, the lower Qts and Fs looks very promising.

[stangbat]

Wow, those are a bit different from Zaph's reported T/S parameters for his AU265 woofers. Looks like we have a different beast here.

I can probably borrow measurement equipment from a buddy to get frequency response data, but I really have no experience measuring drivers so any data I'd get would be suspect until verified.