Advice on adjusting my table saw.

[brookbh]

Ok so the recent thread on joinery has got me really thinking hard about my table saw. I have the Rigid RS4150. http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=100090444&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_sku=100090444&ci_src=64119933&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googleads&locStoreNum=880&marketID=89

Now recently I have cut some shelves for an audio rack out of 1 1/8 inch solid beech counter top. I noticed that on some of the cuts I was an eighth of an inch off at the tail end of the cut. I am thinking maybe my blade got out of wack (not parallel to the fence) while transporting the saw to my basement. I would be interested in any solid tips on how to properly align the blade. Also I am looking to get a thin kerf crosscutting blade and a dado set. Any recommendations on either of those blades for my particular saw?

Edit: I first aligned the blade with a contractor's square and a combo square ( the small adjustable one with the bubble). I checked it against the fence and the miter track.

[edlafontaine]

If you have the blade and fence set parallel to the slots, you are good.

A blade stiffener is a good investment, especially for a thin kerf blade.

The longer your fence, the better you cuts will be.

An 8' plywood edge used as an auxiliary straight edge will help.

[killersoundz]

I have a nice higher end jet contractor saw and I had to tweak it when I first got it and about 2 years later It was due again. It never moves so I can imagine a mobile one would need adjusted more.

Measure the distance from the front of the blade to the miter slot then the back of the blade to the miter slot. Put the blade all the way up. If its off you need to adjust the trunion and put it in align with the miter slot. I go for an accuracy of 1/64 of an inch. Take your time to get it good. On my saw the fence is also adjustable so I true that up with the miter slot as well. If anything you want the rip fence to be out by 1/32 or less at the far end so you don't push the stock up against the blade possibly causing kickback. On the topic of kickback I have never had that happen in my life which I credit to a finely tuned table saw and a splitter.

You also may benefit from clamping the end of your fence down if it has any play in it when you use the clamp on the fence.

Well I typed this on my phone. I can help ya out more later on my pc

[NickS]

http://thewoodwhisperer.com/episode-55-tablesaw-setuptuneup-pt-1/

http://thewoodwhisperer.com/episode-56-tablesaw-setuptuneup-pt-2/

[Æ]

This is the saw I have. For some reason the blade wobbles ever so slightly.
I thought it was the blade, however I later tried the same blade on a DELTA Unisaw and the blade spun absolutely true. It's probably the shoulder that fits onto the arbor. I imagine that I'll have to get it precision ground.
Anyway, I'm not very impressed with RIDGID products. Fortunately for me I have occasional access to a fully equipped cabinet shop.

[killersoundz]

This is the saw I have. For some reason the blade wobbles ever so slightly.
I thought it was the blade, however I later tried the same blade on a DELTA Unisaw and the blade spun absolutely true. It's probably the shoulder that fits onto the arbor. I imagine that I'll have to get it precision ground.
Anyway, I'm not very impressed with RIDGID products. Fortunately for me I have occasional access to a fully equipped cabinet shop.

Yikes that's bad news.

I was lucky enough to pick up a nice (practically brand new at the time) Jet contractor saw off this guy 3 years ago for $350. He even threw in a Delta sliding miter 'table' and caster set he bought as an add on. The saw retailed for about $800 new. I've used the heck out of it and never had a single issue. The motor can be wired up to 240V but I have yet to try that. It would probably be intense.

I would like to upgrade to a full cabinet saw soon enough, I'd like to have better dust collection, cast iron wings and a bigger rip size. I'm always satisfied with Grizzly products so I'd probably go that route.

[brookbh]

Grizzly has a new hybrid table saw that is very reasonable relative to others shop saws. I bought the ridgid because I had to be able to move it around easily by myself. I think my saw is slightly newer than AE's ridgid, but hopefully I can get my kinks worked out and set up properly. However, I was disappointed in the play of the ridgids miter gauge. Can anyone suggest a nice crosscutting blade or dado set that is reasonable?

Btw that first video is a great demonstration, thanks for that link

[williamrschneider]

Here's how I align my blade to the miter track in my saw...

http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~schneidw/audio/images/table_saw_align.jpg

I made a base for a dial indicator that slides without play in the miter slot. Mark just below one tooth with a Sharpie, and avoid using the actual carbide tooth itself.

Zero the dial indicator in the forward position.

Rotate the blade so the same tooth is now at the back position, slide the dial indicator to the mark, and read how different it is.

Ideally, it should be zero. You can see in the picture that I'm very close on my saw (probably within a couple thousandths of an inch).

However, being off 1/8th of an inch makes me wonder if somehow the work kicked out from the fence when you were ripping the last couple inches. It's easy to do unless you plaster the work against the fence throughout its travel.

[brookbh]

I think you may be right. Adding some additional fluorescent lighting above the saw would be worthwhile I believe. I also have the ridgid adjustable outfeed tables that can double as sawhorses too, so a regular outfeed table might help as well. I am out of town, but now I have multiple ideas/areas to double check.

[bobbarkto]

Bill's got the right solution.
You can do the same without a dial indicator (and slightly less precision, but good enough).
Just substitute a small piece of metal rod, like a nail. Drill a hole crosswise through the block where the dial indicator is mounted, just small enough to hold the nail firmly. Lightly tap the nail until it just hits the blade below the tooth. Follow the rest of Bill's example. :)
When you move the jig to the back you might encounter resistance or see light. If it's too close to see any difference you will feel it. A tap on the opposite side of the blade will tell you instantly if the nail is in contact or if there is a few thou of space. If there's space you'll hear a "ting" as the blade hits the nail. If no space you'll hear a thud.
Adjust the blade accordingly.

[killersoundz]

Here's how I align my blade to the miter track in my saw...

http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~schneidw/audio/images/table_saw_align.jpg

I made a base for a dial indicator that slides without play in the miter slot. Mark just below one tooth with a Sharpie, and avoid using the actual carbide tooth itself.

Zero the dial indicator in the forward position.

Rotate the blade so the same tooth is now at the back position, slide the dial indicator to the mark, and read how different it is.

Ideally, it should be zero. You can see in the picture that I'm very close on my saw (probably within a couple thousandths of an inch).

However, being off 1/8th of an inch makes me wonder if somehow the work kicked out from the fence when you were ripping the last couple inches. It's easy to do unless you plaster the work against the fence throughout its travel.

Hey! That's the right way. I would advise not to put 100% of your trust in the true-ness of the blade though. Rotate it around and measure from different spots. But that's being very picky.

However I must say that I get very satisfactory results just using a 1/32" resolution steel ruler and measuring from the slot to the blade. Taking my time. :)

[PassingInterest]

Brook--What everyone else said, plus check to make sure your splitter or Riving Knife is not offset or bent or crooked, which can cause the wood to get pushed offset as it passes by it.



For some reason the blade wobbles ever so slightly.

That's called Runout. Perhaps it can be machined, but I don't know.



The motor can be wired up to 240V but I have yet to try that. It would probably be intense.

Actually, you would draw half the current. Since you'd double the voltage, the power consumption and work output would be the same. But, there's still an advantage in using less current. Less current means less heat.

[killersoundz]

Actually, you would draw half the current. Since you'd double the voltage, the power consumption and work output would be the same. But, there's still an advantage in using less current. Less current means less heat.

Should've figured that.

[williamrschneider]

I also have the ridgid adjustable outfeed tables that can double as sawhorses too, so a regular outfeed table might help as well.



Hmmm...are your outfeed rollers the ball type, or the long roller type?

If the long roller type isn't positioned square to the direction of travel, it will steer the board being cut. This is especially true once you reach the end of the cut when most of the board's weight is on the roller.

I learned that myself through the "school of hard knocks". I'd bet anything that's what happened. If your saw blade or fence were misaligned by a whole 1/8", it would probably look very crooked to the eye, and that's why I'm suggesting these other reasons.

[ckmoore]

Hey Bill, are those Forrest blades really worth it? I am running a Diablo on my Hitachi, its ok, but I was hoping there was something better.

[r-carpenter]

after you adjust the blade to the miter slots, check the fence as well. Run out on the fence should be about 1/64. You can use a caliper.
Forest makes good blades.
Lately I've been using Japanese saw blades and very happy. Quietest blades I own. Priced about the same as Amana.
http://www.tenryu.com/

[williamrschneider]

I like mine enough that I bought a second one to have on hand. Whether it's worth it or not is something you have to decide for yourself because they are very expensive. They have more carbide on the teeth than other blades I've used, so they can be sharpened more times. That justifies some of the extra cost.

The first thing I noticed with this blade is that it was so much quieter than the others I've used. Runout on the blade itself is only +/- 0.002 (I measured it just a week or two ago during my saw's annual tune-up.)

I have enough motor that I use a full thickness blade. While I don't have stats to back it up, I believe that thicker blades run quieter with less vibration amplitude.

The cut is smooth enough that I can glue up two or more boards without further work. The cut is straight enough that there are no gaps when glued.

For example, here is a shot of glued-up of maple boards that made 18" wide stock. A joint is to the right of the drill mark somewhere, but I can't spot it in the picture. (Note that the line visible to the left is a pencil layout mark.)

http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~schneidw/skating/images/skate_rack-3.jpg

They are nice blades.

[jonpike]

You might get in touch with a manufacturer's rep to see if there's info in a manual on tuning up the saw. (you might even have the manual!)

I got a venerable Craftsman saw for $75 from a friend... has to be 20-30yrs old. Despite it's age, I was able to contact Sears and get a manual for $8, showed up in my mailbox 3 days later! It has nice detailed procedures for tuning up and aligning the various parts of the saw.

I also found at Woodcraft, (?) a add on product that's a fine adjuster for the trunnion movement. (blade parallel adjustment) About $20, gives you screw thread adjustment of that, rather than the normal loosen, bang with hammer and block of wood, check and see if you are within a 1/64'th or so process that can be so frustrating. Fits several saw types, or they had different ones that do. Worth checking into.

[williamrschneider]

I bought a set of those adjusters from Woodcraft a couple years ago. They work very well, except that I had interference between the saw's existing splitter mount and the adjuster when tilting the blade.

You can see in the picture that I made a notch in the splitter mount (where my finger is resting), and that I had to eliminate the bottom locknut from the left adjuster itself (circled in red). I also had to shorten the threaded stud of the adjuster.

Each saw will be different, but keep in mind that some modification might be necessary. The adjusters do work though.

http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~schneidw/audio/images/table_saw_align_adjstr.jpg

[Æ]

I checked blade parallel to the miter track by wedging a piece of MDF into the miter track which I then used as a temporary fence. Then I pushed a piece of wood (slight cut) into the blade from the front and then from the back too (unusual). I then adjusted the trunion until the blade heeled parallel to the fence in the groove. I continued to adjust it until the piece of wood was cut in the same place from either the front or the back of the blade.



Bill's got the right solution.
You can do the same without a dial indicator (and slightly less precision, but good enough).
Just substitute a small piece of metal rod, like a nail. Drill a hole crosswise through the block where the dial indicator is mounted, just small enough to hold the nail firmly. Lightly tap the nail until it just hits the blade below the tooth. Follow the rest of Bill's example. :)
When you move the jig to the back you might encounter resistance or see light. If it's too close to see any difference you will feel it. A tap on the opposite side of the blade will tell you instantly if the nail is in contact or if there is a few thou of space. If there's space you'll hear a "ting" as the blade hits the nail. If no space you'll hear a thud.
Adjust the blade accordingly.

[Æ]

That's called Runout. Perhaps it can be machined, but I don't know.

The arbor has a thick removable shoulder type inner blade washer. It needs to be machined (precision ground) to flatness.

[kduggan]

Ok so the recent thread on joinery has got me really thinking hard about my table saw. I have the Rigid RS4150. http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=100090444&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_sku=100090444&ci_src=64119933&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googleads&locStoreNum=880&marketID=89

Now recently I have cut some shelves for an audio rack out of 1 1/8 inch solid beech counter top. I noticed that on some of the cuts I was an eighth of an inch off at the tail end of the cut. I am thinking maybe my blade got out of wack (not parallel to the fence) while transporting the saw to my basement. I would be interested in any solid tips on how to properly align the blade. Also I am looking to get a thin kerf crosscutting blade and a dado set. Any recommendations on either of those blades for my particular saw?

Edit: I first aligned the blade with a contractor's square and a combo square ( the small adjustable one with the bubble). I checked it against the fence and the miter track.
Honestly it sounds like the trunion bearings are loose or the trunion is slightly angled. If your saw blade mounts directly to the motor you will never be able to keep it from tearing out on hard or thick stock but slowing down will help. Cutting through a really hard surface in to a brittle surface like you have in laminated counter tops is tough, the best soultion is to cut about 1/16" long and trim back with a routerbit and a good guide.

[Æ]

I recognize your saw, it looks exactly like one I use to have. A CRAFTSMAN.



I bought a set of those adjusters from Woodcraft a couple years ago. They work very well, except that I had interference between the saw's existing splitter mount and the adjuster when tilting the blade.

You can see in the picture that I made a notch in the splitter mount (where my finger is resting), and that I had to eliminate the bottom locknut from the left adjuster itself (circled in red). I also had to shorten the threaded stud of the adjuster.

Each saw will be different, but keep in mind that some modification might be necessary. The adjusters do work though.

http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~schneidw/audio/images/table_saw_align_adjstr.jpg

[williamrschneider]

Yes, 'tis an older Craftsman. I bought it back in the mid-90s.

I sometimes get tool envy for some of the very nice cabinet saws available, but I really can't justify them at all. Mine works fine for what I need, and that's what's important.

[Æ]

Yes, 'tis an older Craftsman. I bought it back in the mid-90s.

I sometimes get tool envy for some of the very nice cabinet saws available, but I really can't justify them at all. Mine works fine for what I need, and that's what's important.

Mine was from the mid 1970s, I bought it used at a garage/yard sale and completely rebuilt it. I had one problem over and over, the sheave (pulley) on the motor shaft would walk and eventually move itself into the belt guard, melting a large hole in the guard. No matter how hard I torqued the retaining screw it still would move. Finally I drilled and tapped for an additional screw 180 degrees opposite the original. Two screws did the trick, only after wrecking two belt guards. I eventually sold the saw, unfortunately.

[tom_s]

Yes, 'tis an older Craftsman. I bought it back in the mid-90s.

I sometimes get tool envy for some of the very nice cabinet saws available, but I really can't justify them at all. Mine works fine for what I need, and that's what's important.

I have the same saw and share the same tool envy from time to time. In my case, I don't have room in my tiny shop for anything larger. And the thought of lugging a cabinet saw down the stairs...my back hurts just thinking about it. The bandsaw almost killed me - and that was 14 years ago! :eek:

On topic - I remember reading something on the web about grinding the face of the arbor while it was on the saw. It seemed pretty straightforward.

Found it - http://woodgears.ca/saw_arbor/index.html

[Æ]

Good article, thank you.
That is what I need to do with my saw's arbor FLANGE, grind it flat!


I have the same saw and share the same tool envy from time to time. In my case, I don't have room in my tiny shop for anything larger. And the thought of lugging a cabinet saw down the stairs...my back hurts just thinking about it. The bandsaw almost killed me - and that was 14 years ago! :eek:

On topic - I remember reading something on the web about grinding the face of the arbor while it was on the saw. It seemed pretty straightforward.

Found it - http://woodgears.ca/saw_arbor/index.html