Will these work for Bass guitar practice rig?

[captainobvious99]

These are an 8" buyout woofer and I was wondering if its feasible to use these in a 2x8 or 4x8 open back baffle for a bass guitar practice rig...?

At a cost of about $40 I can build the enclosure and pop in a pre-existing amp unit from another practice amp along with these. What do you guys think?

[billfitzmaurice]

These are an 8" buyout woofer Which? What? Where? :confused:
In any event open back=blown driver.

[killersoundz]

Yeah it would help if you pointed out which speaker. Open back for bass....ewwwww. And that would only work with very specific speakers.

[captainobvious99]

Ok, I could have sworn I put the link in...DOH!


Here they are: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=299-112


SO, assume a sealed enclosure then... :) Feasible ?

[billfitzmaurice]

Ok, I could have sworn I put the link in...DOH!


Here they are: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=299-112


SO, assume a sealed enclosure then... :) Feasible ?I doubt they'd last long. For bedroom practice maybe, that's about it.

[killersoundz]

Yeah, very bad idea. I tried some 10" studio pro's for bass before out of curiosity, the surrounds made a very loud buzzing noise under any bass even at low volume. They were rubbish and useless, I threw them in the trash.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-262


Spend the money on something decent. Why not just make a nice 1x12?

[captainobvious99]

Yeah, very bad idea. I tried some 10" studio pro's for bass before out of curiosity, the surrounds made a very loud buzzing noise under any bass even at low volume. They were rubbish and useless, I threw them in the trash.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-262


Spend the money on something decent. Why not just make a nice 1x12?

1.5mm xmax...sheesh. No wonder they blew up :p


Im not looking to make something 'really good', more like something cheap and functional, and light/moveable would be a big plus. I was thinking a horn loaded mid/tweeter (something like this? http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=280-050) along with some low cost woofers to get a high sensitivity, low cost cabinet for practice in a small space (about 15' x 20 foot room).

Any other woofers you guys can suggest then that would do it on the cheap?

THANKS for the help, greatly appreciated.

EDIT: Was just looking at the Nuance W10-NS1020 10"ers http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=299-083
They have 9mm xmax, but a low sensitivity and VERY high Qts at 1.39...looks like they'd be suited for an OB or huge sealed box....:/


I do have some drivers sitting around at my place on the shelf but dont know how well they'd be suited for the task...
(2) RS270S-8 10" woofers
(2) TB W3-1364SA 3" mid/full rangers
(2) Peerless SLS M&K 8" woofers
(2) Peerless SLS 8" woofers

[billfitzmaurice]

Don't even think about using hi-fi woofers for electric bass, they simply won't work. And don't assume that you don't need a full size rig for practice because it's a small room. Small rooms suffer from boundary cancellation issues that you don't get in large rooms, so if anything it can be harder to hear yourself.

[captainobvious99]

SO then any drivers you would recommend on the budget side?

Thanks Bill

[billfitzmaurice]

SO then any drivers you would recommend on the budget side?

Thanks Bill
The least expensive driver I'd consider is an Eminence Beta 10.

[killersoundz]

The least expensive driver I'd consider is an Eminence Beta 10.

Good suggestion. Other reasons using home audio woofers for musical instrument amp. is a bad idea 1. Very little presence, will sound incredibly muffled. 2. Low sensitivity.

[captainobvious99]

Okay...I think I've found a good possibilty. The Pioneer A30FU20-52F is a 12" woofer at $25 a piece on special and has an FS of 30hz, 95db 1w/1m sensitivity, and only weighs 5lbs each.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-105

Winner ? :)

[wg_ski]

That's just another home audio woofer. A bit stouter than many, but it's still not going to sound right. If you're really dead set against Eminence and want more of a hi-fi driver, use the famous "BOFU" wide range 8". You'll want to limit the power to about 40 watts per driver, for the usual reasons.

[killersoundz]

You should really bite the bullet on an Eminence man, you won't regret it.

[captainobvious99]

That's just another home audio woofer. A bit stouter than many, but it's still not going to sound right. If you're really dead set against Eminence and want more of a hi-fi driver, use the famous "BOFU" wide range 8". You'll want to limit the power to about 40 watts per driver, for the usual reasons.


Is the BOFU 8" going to outperform the pioneer 12" ? :confused:

The Pioneer has a sensitivity of 95db and FS of 30HZ with xmax at 2.4mm...that sounds alot like pro audio type specs, aside from the powerhandling which is pretty meager. BUT, with a sensitivity like that and the planned usage, I dont see why it would be a problem? What wouldnt sound right about it ?

The issue with an Eminence driver is purely cost. I'd love to do a basslite driver, or even a beta...but they are considerably more expensive.

[wg_ski]

The BOFU will at least "sound" like a bass guitar speaker. The 12" will not - you'd probably want a midrange with it. Power handling between the two will be a wash. Hit it too hard and you'll be ripping the surrounds.

Be on the lookout for pro sound buyouts if you want to do this on the cheap. A Beta-10-ish driver goes for around $30 from time to time.

[killersoundz]

Keep your eyes peeled on your local craigslist. Used eminence speakers come across mine often.

[billfitzmaurice]

Okay...I think I've found a good possibilty. The Pioneer A30FU20-52F is a 12" woofer at $25 a piece on special and has an FS of 30hz, 95db 1w/1m sensitivity, and only weighs 5lbs each.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-105

Winner ? :)No midrange.

[Knowsknone]

I would love to DIY my own setup, but I went and checked out my local pawn shops and I found quite a few nice Bass combo amps for a reasonable price.
I picked up a Peavey TKO115 and it might be a bit big and heavy, but for $140 in basically new condition I couldn't pass it up! Pawn shops might be a good deal if you just want a decent practice amp..

Also, I have tried using home type speakers, in a huge sealed 4x12 setup, and trust me I had it cranked before I could really hear myself play in my practice room and it did not sound right, boomy and muddy mostly.

[captainobvious99]

The BOFU will at least "sound" like a bass guitar speaker. The 12" will not - you'd probably want a midrange with it. Power handling between the two will be a wash. Hit it too hard and you'll be ripping the surrounds.

Be on the lookout for pro sound buyouts if you want to do this on the cheap. A Beta-10-ish driver goes for around $30 from time to time.


No midrange.

RE: midrange

Per above, I was plannign on pairing with something like this 4x10 horn mid
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=280-050%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&FTR=280-050

I'd just need to get some assistance with padding the horn down and design of a very simple crossover for the two. Amp is capable of 4ohm.

[billfitzmaurice]

Amp is capable of 4ohm.This statement indicates that you may think when you use an 8 ohm woofer and 8 ohm midrange you end up with a 4 ohm load. You don't. I don't like to seem condescending, but if that's the case you shouldn't be trying to design your own speaker. If a shortage of $ is the reason you're trying to DIY you're better off buying used, and with the current state of the economy pawnshops are overflowing with inventory.

[wg_ski]

RE: midrange

Per above, I was plannign on pairing with something like this 4x10 horn mid
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=280-050%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&FTR=280-050


Yeah, right. Use those and you'll be replacing diaphragms every other week. Those little bitty "midrange" horns with a 1" VC have about the same mechanical power handling as your average 1" silk dome tweeter. Padding helps the situation, but trust me you'll toast them.

[killersoundz]

This statement indicates that you may think when you use an 8 ohm woofer and 8 ohm midrange you end up with a 4 ohm load. You don't. I don't like to seem condescending, but if that's the case you shouldn't be trying to design your own speaker. If a shortage of $ is the reason you're trying to DIY you're better off buying used, and with the current state of the economy pawnshops are overflowing with inventory.

Yeah I'd tend to agree. And bud if you're gonna spend $20 on a "midrange horn" why not just put the lute towards a single quality 10" bass speaker. At least it will sound like bass guitar should when you practice in your bedroom.

[captainobvious99]

This statement indicates that you may think when you use an 8 ohm woofer and 8 ohm midrange you end up with a 4 ohm load. You don't. I don't like to seem condescending, but if that's the case you shouldn't be trying to design your own speaker. If a shortage of $ is the reason you're trying to DIY you're better off buying used, and with the current state of the economy pawnshops are overflowing with inventory.

:confused:
Not sure how you deduced that. What I was trying to relay is that the amp currently drives a 4ohm speaker load so it should be stable with a 4ohm load.

At any rate, you may be right about the craigslist/pawnshop options. It may end up costing more to build a cheap cabinet than it would be to just buy a working used one so I'll look around a bit.

Thanks.

[killersoundz]

:confused:
Not sure how you deduced that. What I was trying to relay is that the amp currently drives a 4ohm speaker load so it should be stable with a 4ohm load.

At any rate, you may be right about the craigslist/pawnshop options. It may end up costing more to build a cheap cabinet than it would be to just buy a working used one so I'll look around a bit.

Thanks.

Putting a 8 ohm woofer together with a 8 ohm horn with a crossover does not equal a 4 ohm load, that's why he said that. It's a lot more complicated than that in the first place, no speaker is 8 ohms, or 4 ohms, that's just a guess. Impedance varies with frequency.

[billfitzmaurice]

:confused:
Not sure how you deduced that. What I was trying to relay is that the amp currently drives a 4ohm speaker load so it should be stable with a 4ohm load.

A very common question from newbies is 'If I have an 8 ohm woofer, 8 ohm mid and 8 ohm tweeter that's a 2.67 ohm load, so how can I use it with a 4 ohm amp? The answer of course is that you use a crossover and the load is 8 ohms.
You made it a point of mentioning your amp handled four ohm load when you were considering an 8 ohm woofer and 8 ohm midrange, and it wouldn't matter anyway. That gave the impression, rightly or wrongly, that you didn't know how crossovers work.

[danklugherz]

I doubt they'd last long. For bedroom practice maybe, that's about it.

I realize these aren't the best option but you would think 4 of these in a sealed cab would be able to handle more power and for $16 why not try it? Make the front baffle removable so you can add what ever you want. My $.02.

Dan

[wg_ski]

I 4 of these in a sealed cab would be able to handle more power and for $16 why not try it?

Depends if $16 is significant. Heck, for just playing around, you could use any cheap speaker(s) you can get your hands on. Don't expect miracles out of junk, and I wouldn't waste good material or a lot of time on the cab. If there's some scrap 1/2" ply lying around the shop, and you've got an hour to burn you could make sound.

You'll be building a real one later. And you'll be out the $16.

[captainobvious99]

A very common question from newbies is 'If I have an 8 ohm woofer, 8 ohm mid and 8 ohm tweeter that's a 2.67 ohm load, so how can I use it with a 4 ohm amp? The answer of course is that you use a crossover and the load is 8 ohms.
You made it a point of mentioning your amp handled four ohm load when you were considering an 8 ohm woofer and 8 ohm midrange, and it wouldn't matter anyway. That gave the impression, rightly or wrongly, that you didn't know how crossovers work.

Fair enough. I do understand that combining an 8ohm woofer and an 8ohm mid does not give you a 4ohm load to the amp. Heck, every speaker varies impedance at a given frequency anyway so Im on the same page as you there.



I realize these aren't the best option but you would think 4 of these in a sealed cab would be able to handle more power and for $16 why not try it? Make the front baffle removable so you can add what ever you want. My $.02.

Dan


Depends if $16 is significant. Heck, for just playing around, you could use any cheap speaker(s) you can get your hands on. Don't expect miracles out of junk, and I wouldn't waste good material or a lot of time on the cab. If there's some scrap 1/2" ply lying around the shop, and you've got an hour to burn you could make sound.

You'll be building a real one later. And you'll be out the $16.

I was asking about those initially specifically because they are cheap, and I do have a ton of mdf laying around. This wouldnt be used for playing with a full band, but just a standalone practice rig for solo use by our bassist. He WAS using a single 8" guitar practice amp which certainly wasn't going to stand up to use for a bass guitar. So now the mission is just to get something going for him to use at home that won't blow up with lower to medium volume practicing.

[captainobvious99]

Mike pointed me toward MCM's site where they have these:

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/MCM-AUDIO-SELECT-55-2951-/55-2951

and these

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/MCM-AUDIO-SELECT-55-2952-/55-2952


Which should work out just fine and keep things pretty cheap. Thanks Mike !

I'll probably just do a single 12 with a horn. With parts (outside of MDF) for the cabinet (port, handles, corners, etc) it will come in at $45. Niiiiiiice

EDIT: Went with the 12" and a simple Piezo 3x7. Should be good enough for a practice cabinet.

[billfitzmaurice]

I realize these aren't the best option but you would think 4 of these in a sealed cab would be able to handle more power and for $16 why not try it? Make the front baffle removable so you can add what ever you want. My $.02.

DanNow you're up to $64 and a pretty large box. Spend the $64 on one good driver and use a lot smaller box.

[killersoundz]

Now you're up to $64 and a pretty large box. Spend the $64 on one good driver and use a lot smaller box.

Yeah really. I don't think this guy reads anything we're saying.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-410

15" eminence beta $70


http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-471

10" eminence bass speaker $60


http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-409

'fully range' 12" beta $60

[captainobvious99]

Now you're up to $64 and a pretty large box. Spend the $64 on one good driver and use a lot smaller box.

Its $45 and I wont require a very big box for the 12. A little over 2 cubes.

EDIT: Sorry, I think you were responding to the guy suggesting the 4 drivers...:o



If I was going to get a "good" driver and spend the money, I'd do the Eminence Basslite 15" and be done. But this should be more than enough for the intended purpose. Assuming the 12"er isnt a total stinker...

[captainobvious99]

Yeah really. I don't think this guy reads anything we're saying.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-410

15" eminence beta $70


http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-471

10" eminence bass speaker $60


http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-409

'fully range' 12" beta $60

Did you mean me or the other poster :confused:

Do the math, $60 for a Beta or $22.79 for the MCM 12" and $2 for the horn Piezo. Its a big difference. Like I said, its for individual practice at low to medium volumes. All it has to do is produce the sounds and not blow up. Its not for gigging or for full band practice.

I'll report back on the quality of the MCM driver once its seen some use.

[killersoundz]

Mike pointed me toward MCM's site where they have these:

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/MCM-AUDIO-SELECT-55-2951-/55-2951

and these

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/MCM-AUDIO-SELECT-55-2952-/55-2952


Which should work out just fine and keep things pretty cheap. Thanks Mike !

I'll probably just do a single 12 with a horn. With parts (outside of MDF) for the cabinet (port, handles, corners, etc) it will come in at $45. Niiiiiiice

EDIT: Went with the 12" and a simple Piezo 3x7. Should be good enough for a practice cabinet.

Those drivers look similar to the studio pro's I tried out. The frames were paper thin, whatever for the money, but they were unusable at any volume. good luck.

[captainobvious99]

Driver specs:

Specifications:

•Sensitivity: 97dB (W/M)
•Impedance: 8ohm
•Re: 7.2ohm
•Le: 1.34mH
•Frequency response:
•38Hz~2.5KHz
•Fs: 38Hz
•Qts: 0.34
•Qes: 0.385
•Qms: 2.8
•Vas: 108 liters
•Xmax: 3.75mm
•Overall frame diameter: 12.20"
•Required cutout: 10.9"
•Mounting depth: 5.04"


WinISD models one of these in about 2.25 cubes vented, tuned to 45hz with an F3 of about 48 hz.
Would you guys recommend anything other? Thanks

[wg_ski]

It looks like a driver that they would put in a cheap ($100) wedge/pole mounter. With a piezo, of course. If the specs are real, and the magnet doesn't fall off the first time it's dropped, and the frame doesn't ring like a bell at 700 Hz it might not be too bad. For $22 I might even be tempted to buy some.

[captainobvious99]

It looks like a driver that they would put in a cheap ($100) wedge/pole mounter. With a piezo, of course. If the specs are real, and the magnet doesn't fall off the first time it's dropped, and the frame doesn't ring like a bell at 700 Hz it might not be too bad. For $22 I might even be tempted to buy some.

Yup it looks like cheap, but still likely a huge upgrade from the 8" guitar driver being used :eek:

Should be arriving today so I'll report back on the quality. Enclosure is about halfway done. (Okay, maybe 25%...)

[killersoundz]

and the frame doesn't ring like a bell at 700 Hz it might not be too bad.

Lol, it definitely will. I have a little experience with these uber cheap chinese drivers. The frames are thinner than a soda can.

[captainobvious99]

Lol, it definitely will. I have a little experience with these uber cheap chinese drivers. The frames are thinner than a soda can.

Took a look at it today. It is a thinner stamped basket as expected (not soda can thin though ;) ). I'll put a little dynamat on the frame to dampen it since I have a bunch of it laying around. That should help out with any ringing.
Looks like pretty much what I would expect at this price range. Once I get it in the box and wired up we'll see what it can actually do...

[captainobvious99]

Well, I got the wedge box built and installed the bass driver and horn. As expected, the piezo horn is a turd, but I have it padded down anyway. It serves the purpose. The bass driver is a little peaky in the higher range, but overall is pretty decent as tested with a guitar. I'll try it out with the bass this week to see what it can really do. The box is about 1.75 cu feet ported.

I think it will do quite nicely for practicing as I had hoped. Not too bad for $45 in parts- shipping included. :D