The eddierox sound system

[eddierox]

Pyle Driver Pro system built with all Pyle Driver Pro's from the 1980's


http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=wl9i7s&s=7

http://i54.tinypic.com/29zxvl5.jpg



Adcom Rack


http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=bdc3b&s=7



http://i51.tinypic.com/bdc3b.jpg

[pypes]

I bet it's loud.

[eddierox]

I bet it's loud.

... give or take a two @ 122dB sustained for about 5 minutes ... could probably take more but these speakers are impossible to find and it would be just my luck I would blow one I don't have a spare of ...


:p

[6thplanet]

Wow, Pyle Pro woofers ! Brings back memories. One of the first car audio installs I did used the old Pyle Poly woofers. After those died, we stepped up to the Pounder series, those were some really awesome subs back in the day... Nice to see some ol' Pyles still kickin !

[Paul Carmody]

Man, just looking at that setup, I can feel my b@lls grow. :D

[Mark65]

Man, just looking at that setup, I can feel my b@lls grow. :D

I hear that!:cool:

Unfortunately, I can't hear anything else...I'm feeling deaf just from looking at those things!;)


Oh, hey, anybody wanna FIGHT?:D


Mark

[pypes]

I hear that!:cool:

Unfortunately, I can't hear anything else...I'm feeling deaf just from looking at those things!;)


Oh, hey, anybody wanna FIGHT?:D


Mark

So what? Big whoop, wanna fight about it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30GD25un0XQ

[killersoundz]

Whats going on here? this is a mess

[beemain]

"The Cable Guy"

[eddierox]

See the eddierox rig on EVGA Mod Rigs for the watercooled digital studio ... :p



http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?&m=555364&mpage=1


http://i55.tinypic.com/2llzrxg.jpg

[mattp]

See the eddierox rig on EVGA Mod Rigs for the watercooled digital studio ... :p



http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?&m=555364&mpage=1


http://i55.tinypic.com/2llzrxg.jpg

Watercooled and it still has 12 fans? :confused:

[eddierox]

Watercooled and it still has 12 fans? :confused:

32 fans total actually ... 12 as push/pull on the 4 x120mm & 3 x 120mm radiators around the case and 11 fans as push/pull on the 9 x 120mm radiator (2) of which are 200mm fans ... there are 3 x140mm and 2 x180mm and 1 x 120mm fans inside the case all pulling the air out of the case ... this gives me a more accurate ambient water temp which is true water temp ... oh, and 1 x 80mm blowing on the triple channel memories ... and 2 x 80mm that do nothing except to fill-up a slot and add some (disco) colors ... (all fans inside the case are coolmax chameleons which have the best pastel-like colors)


:p


http://i56.tinypic.com/m7gjkp.jpg

[dtkeith]

32 fans total actually ... 12 as push/pull on the 4 x120mm & 3 x 120mm radiators around the case and 11 fans as push/pull on the 9 x 120mm radiator (2) of which are 200mm fans ... there are 3 x140mm and 2 x180mm and 1 x 120mm fans inside the case all pulling the air out of the case ... this gives me a more accurate ambient water temp which is true water temp ... oh, and 1 x 80mm blowing on the triple channel memories ... and 2 x 80mm that do nothing except to fill-up a slot and add some (disco) colors ... (all fans inside the case are coolmax chameleons which have the best pastel-like colors)


:p


http://i56.tinypic.com/m7gjkp.jpg

I like the cat lol. What temps do you normally get in there?

[eddierox]

I like the cat lol. What temps do you normally get in there?

I try to get the cat in pix as much as I can .. he likes stick'n in his nose in the fans ... LOL ...

I'm running an i7-965 on an Intel DX58SO last revision with a Koolance CPU-350 ... also, Koolance waterblocks on the Northbridge and Southbridge all running through the 3 x 120mm & 4 x120mm via Swiftech pump and 400ml reservoir .. its running from 109F to 120F under load ... I'm not happy about it but again, I've got 3 waterblocks on one loop ... (eventually will go to CPU-370 but I honestly don't think I will get better temps and I've used every available thermal compounds available to no avail ...)

My GTX460's in SLI are running on the second loop via 9 x 120mm Rad, Swiftech pump and 500ml finned reservoir ... both run at 24C & 26C and gets no hotter than 30C under extreme loads so I'm happy about that ... see the build on the link ... 2 Blue Ribbon winner ...

:p

[dtkeith]

I can't believe that you still get up to temps that high, my quad 3.2 only gets up to 125 F under heavy load, with stock cooling, and no water at all

[eddierox]

I can't believe that you still get up to temps that high, my quad 3.2 only gets up to 125 F under heavy load, with stock cooling, and no water at all

CPU Watercooling is essentially a big mirage ... I get better temps with my air-cooled system ... (I use all thermalright products)

One needs to understand the properties and specific gravity(s) of water to get a better understanding of how it all works.

Say for instance, the best part of the heat actually comes from the pumps, I can get another almost 5F lower temp by running my pumps at nominal flow.

Also, water works best the hotter your system gets (like your car/vehicles) ... that is, it runs much lower temps under loads and extreme loads than air ... such as in gaming and extreme gaming ...

Otherwise the whole watercooling (or)deal should be regarded as and looked at for the Wow ! factor to impress your clients and buddies ...


:p

[Taterworks]

eddierox - Oh, boy...where to start? This is where I'll undoubtedly come across as a jerk.

If that's your digital studio, it's no wonder you need that many drivers in your speakers to hear anything at all above the din of those fans. My PC would be the perfect DAW rig, with only 4 fans, and all 4 controlled by a programmable 4-channel controller with user-definable thermal response curves for each channel. With this setup, my PC is inaudible except on a warm day, and only barely just discernible in a quiet room at that. Minimizing noise was clearly not one of your design priorities, with 32 fans churning.

Not sure why you need SLI in a digital audio workstation. Again, priorities.

When you're ready to get serious, and not just stack up marginal-quality drivers in even more marginal-quality enclosures, come back and build a pair of speakers from a proven design (like the Statement Monitors). Maybe then people will take you seriously, but right now all you've got is a bunch of drivers in some plywood boxes with questionable attention to sonic integration and even more questionable competency in the field of audio anything.

The only thing that looks halfway respectable is the Adcom rack. I see a graphic EQ; keep in mind that you cannot EQ the time domain, you can't EQ polar response in any more than one direction, and you can't EQ distortion away.

[killersoundz]

Yeah no offense but the point of water cooling, at least typically for an audio application would be low noise. At one time, in like 2000, it was cool to overclock and therefore your setup like that had a purpose, but tell me you need to get more processing power out of your i7. :rolleyes:

[Mipsconsult]

Speakers are junk. Big crummy speakers = lipstick on a pig.
EQ curve looks like a monkey set it.
You're more into bells & whistles than you are into fine audio.
Are you the one responsible for shooting the starting gun that started the race to end true high fidelity components & recordings?
Tater was being kind and diplomatic. I am being brutally honest.

[johnnyrichards]

Speakers are junk. Big crummy speakers = lipstick on a pig.
EQ curve looks like a monkey set it.
You're more into bells & whistles than you are into fine audio.
Are you the one responsible for shooting the starting gun that started the race to end true high fidelity components & recordings?
Tater was being kind and diplomatic. I am being brutally honest.

No, you are being needlessly mean. Go to Reddit if you just want to insult people.

[RINNAV]

Agree Johnny--perfectly stated!

I say, to each their own, and if it brings customers to PE than I suppose this site has realized its purpose. With that said, Tater speaks the frank truth. There is so much to learn about good sound reproduction. Personally, I didn't realize how much work there was in designing system but thanks to the guys on here I have contained money wasted to a bearable minimum. By the way, the only thing I am sure of (when it comes to 'real' Hi fidelity sound) is that I still have many more years of reading/study before I become respectably close to 90 percent of the talent on here.

[eddierox]

No sweat guys ... jealous people having fits are my specialty ... nobody I know yet wants go up against me in any dB challenge ... and the stereo you see is only one-half of the system ... so get on with your little baby towers as fandangled experimentals and declare yourselves it ... old news.

:p

[dtkeith]

No sweat guys ... jealous people having fits are my specialty ... nobody I know yet wants go up against me in any dB challenge ... and the stereo you see is only one-half of the system ... so get on with your little baby towers as fandangled experimentals and declare yourselves it ... old news.

:p

Everyone has the own opinion on what makes a good audio system. That doest make anyone right or wrong.

[Taterworks]

No sweat guys ... jealous people having fits are my specialty ... nobody I know yet wants go up against me in any dB challenge ... and the stereo you see is only one-half of the system ... so get on with your little baby towers as fandangled experimentals and declare yourselves it ... old news.

:p

Who's jealous? I have Mark Levinson and Musical Fidelity in the house, and while I can't live inside my speakers, I get the luxury of keeping my hearing and still enjoying the full performance value of my system in terms of sound quality. You can keep your bright flashy lights, screaming fans, huge boxes full of cones, and disregard for quality over quantity. That's not my speed.

[eddierox]

Everyone has the own opinion on what makes a good audio system. That doest make anyone right or wrong.

Again, no sweat ... bashing on a mans stereo is like bashing on his home (his castle), his wife (his queen) and his dog (his best friend) ... it gets you nowhere except maybe punched in the mouth ... LOL ...

Anyway, heres my latest experimental ... a Pyle 18" powered by a Dayton HPSA1000 ... now about to get a Pyle PDW21250 ... yes thats' right 21" ...


http://i51.tinypic.com/nxowhw.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/2h6dkbn.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/2d8f2w1.jpg

[eddierox]

Who's jealous? I have Mark Levinson and Musical Fidelity in the house, and while I can't live inside my speakers, I get the luxury of keeping my hearing and still enjoying the full performance value of my system in terms of sound quality. You can keep your bright flashy lights, screaming fans, huge boxes full of cones, and disregard for quality over quantity. That's not my speed.

Don't particularly care even if you're running Mcintosh ... mine is 100% Home Concert ... When waffing through the air exquisitely with Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy to blistering disturbing the peace with Ain't Talk'n'bout Love ... It's all there ...

And if I want to move from the *canvas of warmth* of my *ye 'ol Adcom analogs* .. I'll just plug everything into my *sterile* Adcom Digitals ...

:p


http://i56.tinypic.com/15fnj83.jpg

[dewster]

You go! I admire your Pyle purism - not for me, but it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round, and I respect that. Anyone with cats gets extra points.

[eddierox]

You go! I admire your Pyle purism - not for me, but it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round, and I respect that. Anyone with cats gets extra points.

Thanks man ... the entire theme here is ... well, in honor of the Made in the U.S.A. Pyle Industries Pyle Drivers from the 1980's & 1990's ... when I want to do another theme ... well, I'll do another theme ... this place rocks in this regard ...

Heck, how can we forget the pyle crossovers from an era where Pyle invented *Big Sound* ...

http://i53.tinypic.com/iedp4o.jpg



I think I'm gonna blast the cat with Audioslaves' Cochise ... he sticks to the ceiling real good ... LOL

http://i53.tinypic.com/1pxrpj.jpg

[eddierox]

Yeah no offense but the point of water cooling, at least typically for an audio application would be low noise. At one time, in like 2000, it was cool to overclock and therefore your setup like that had a purpose, but tell me you need to get more processing power out of your i7. :rolleyes:

All the fans are turned down to nominal via 2 x 6 channel Sunbeamtech Reobus extreme controllers ... and with the pumps turned down to nominal ... it's all a whisper ... and if I want it totally out of the way quiet I move it to the other side of the room ... all my sound is covered either with the stock digital audio or nVidia HDMI/audio driver ... into the Adcom DAC ... all coming through the media player as eq mist bars and when I want to get funky ... well, we have 3D vision ...

By the way, I don't clock nor game ... I'm only in it because, well, I can ...


:p

[eddierox]

eddierox - Oh, boy...where to start? This is where I'll undoubtedly come across as a jerk.

If that's your digital studio, it's no wonder you need that many drivers in your speakers to hear anything at all above the din of those fans. My PC would be the perfect DAW rig, with only 4 fans, and all 4 controlled by a programmable 4-channel controller with user-definable thermal response curves for each channel. With this setup, my PC is inaudible except on a warm day, and only barely just discernible in a quiet room at that. Minimizing noise was clearly not one of your design priorities, with 32 fans churning.

Not sure why you need SLI in a digital audio workstation. Again, priorities.

When you're ready to get serious, and not just stack up marginal-quality drivers in even more marginal-quality enclosures, come back and build a pair of speakers from a proven design (like the Statement Monitors).


Maybe then people will take you seriously, but right now all you've got is a bunch of drivers in some plywood boxes with questionable attention to sonic integration and even more questionable competency in the field of audio anything.


The only thing that looks halfway respectable is the Adcom rack. I see a graphic EQ; keep in mind that you cannot EQ the time domain, you can't EQ polar response in any more than one direction, and you can't EQ distortion away.

Plywood ? Moi ?
Sonic integration ? ... did you learn that one from your little software program or do you just go with a generic Sony Audio /Music/Movie Studio app ?
Maybe one of those keen subwoofer oscilliation platforms ?
LOL.

This looks like High Density MDF ... yes ? No ?



http://i53.tinypic.com/2nrlt0.jpghttp://i56.tinypic.com/4kz85z.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/15rjcs6.jpg
http://i55.tinypic.com/5kf5p5.jpghttp://i52.tinypic.com/vp9i0n.jpg

[eddierox]

Speakers are junk. Big crummy speakers = lipstick on a pig.

EQ curve looks like a monkey set it.

You're more into bells & whistles than you are into fine audio.
Are you the one responsible for shooting the starting gun that started the race to end true high fidelity components & recordings?
Tater was being kind and diplomatic. I am being brutally honest.

Oh, that's a RANE THX44 ... I just threw that one in for all the nifty-looking sliders ... LOL ... good luck finding one of those ...


http://i56.tinypic.com/2u8weuh.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/2eecylg.jpg

[Paul Carmody]

OK, I'll bite.
How come you have 6 midrange drivers, but one woofer? Also, I see 5 different size drivers in there. Does that mean this is a 5-way system? If so, what are the crossover points?

[eddierox]

OK, I'll bite.
How come you have 6 midrange drivers, but one woofer? Also, I see 5 different size drivers in there. Does that mean this is a 5-way system? If so, what are the crossover points?

Haven't put together a nice crossover-design/slope sheet yet but everything is basically on a 12dB/octave ...

On the L/R Towers ~ In each tower there are (6) 5" open-air drivers (20 oz. magnet) on ribbed-suspension surrounds ... (1) x 70 oz. 8" subwoofer in free air (hooked up as high-mid-bass) ... there is a single 60 oz. Pyle compression driver on a 7" horn ... there is (1) 10" x 80 oz. subwoofer powered by a Dayton SA240 and (1) 12" x 80 oz. subwoofer as a passive radiator ... or I can switch them around should I decide too for any reason ... or I can seperate them and power them both ...


On the Center Tower ~ Are (1) x P-Audio compression driver ... (4) x 6.5" each in sealed compartments & 3 x 40 oz. 8" each in sealed compartments ... there is (1) Dayton 8" horn with 40 oz. compression driver.

My center channel tower has been the most experimental and I've decided to strip off the front panel and re-do the Center Channel as (1) x P-Audio and (8) x 6.5".


The Left surround/side ~ is (2) x 5" in sealed design ... (2) x 8" horns with 30 & 40 oz. Pyle compression drivers ... and (1) 10" Pyle mid-bass on ribbed suspension (this one is a new design with a 100 oz. magnet and CCAR voice coil, TL Bobbin/Linear Phase Plug) ... it's got exquisite sound although it defeats my *Pyles from the 80's theme* ...


The towers are on Pyle X3W-150P-12D crossovers from the 1980's and the Center is on a XSAT1 crossover.


The Subwoofer ~ is a Pyle 15" 200 oz. magnet in a 4.5 c.u./ft box.
It too is an experimental design where I can play with ports, a 12" passive or a 15" passive ... this is so I can attempt to *direct* the air/vibrations etc. against walls or floors or both or niether ... it's powered by a Dayton SA240-B.

All of the Adcom amplifiers power only the Mids & Highs.

I'm almost finished with an entire replication or second set of this system so I will post it up as soon I'm finished ...


http://i56.tinypic.com/rsbh1y.gif

[RINNAV]

OK, the entertainment value of this project is approaching critical mass...:p

[cantgetitright]

Dont listen to what anyone says Mr eddie. That computer is a bad mother ****er. The speakers to. Although Im an AMD man so it could be better. JK. I built a bad *** gaming rig and caught a ton of **** for it cuz i dont game. Why you ask?? Cuz I can just like you. So screw the haters. Pound that **** bro.

[badman]

I know butkus about computer cooling, but there are significant design issues with those speakers. That many mids cannot sum coherently, and the tweeter horns way up high like that, far away from the mids, is going to create a very rough polar response.

I'm quite certain it'll go very loud. But you can do better, you obviously aren't afraid to cut holes, so perhaps you should spend some more time on the layout design. Move the 4 mids as close together as possible, and reverse the mounting on 2 of 'em so the magnets face out. Move the horn down much further to be closer to the mids. This is not what I'd do, but it's a way to clean things up somewhat without changing the overall driver complement (which IS what I'd do).

[dwigle]

Everyone has the own opinion on what makes a good audio system. That doest make anyone right or wrong.

No, it's definitely wrong. This is car audio without the wheels.

[dwigle]

OK, the entertainment value of this project is approaching critical mass...:p

Agreed, this thread is riveting - more fun than I've had in a week. You know they're knee deep in it when they start quoting magnet weights.

[Taterworks]

Riveting? I'm surprised it's still going.


This is car audio without the wheels.

Best comment of the thread.

[eddierox]

No, it's definitely wrong. This is car audio without the wheels.


Agreed, this thread is riveting - more fun than I've had in a week. You know they're knee deep in it when they start quoting magnet weights.
Riveting? I'm surprised it's still going.

Best comment of the thread.



You people are still here crying like wussys ? Damn ... http://i53.tinypic.com/2ni60ef.gif

[isaeagle4031]

To be honest, this would be an insult to good car audio systems.

[Taterworks]

You people are still here crying like wussys ? Damn ... http://i53.tinypic.com/2ni60ef.gif

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humility

This thread might have been the subject of a lot less ridicule if you'd started from the above linked principle. I know that's a lot to ask for the Internet, but it's a trait that makes online communities like this one a whole lot more productive than, say, an online community of teenage PC gamers.

You have lots of drivers, and lots of amps, but also a lot to learn about acoustic design. I'd recommend proceeding with your 21" subwoofers (though you'll need some monstrous enclosures), but then designing a pair of efficient 2-way main speakers using a single Pyle pro audio 12" (paper cone, pleated fabric surround) and one of your compression drivers on the 10" (or maybe they're the 8"?) round waveguides per side. It's possible to rework your current system into something with much better audio performance with fewer drivers than what you've used. You might even be able to work the rest of your 8" and 12" woofers in there somehow. You will also need to learn more about crossover design, starting with the understanding that an off-the-shelf crossover is not appropriate for the majority of drivers in the majority of configurations, and designing a custom crossover for your speaker projects is essential to getting the performance you paid for from your drivers.

Sound Reproduction by Floyd Toole (http://www.amazon.com/Sound-Reproduction-Acoustics-Psychoacoustics-Loudspeakers/dp/0240520092)

Take a look at this book, written by a JBL acoustic engineer. You don't need to go far into it to pick up some ideas that will greatly help you in designing systems that perform well acoustically.

[eddierox]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humility

This thread might have been the subject of a lot less ridicule if you'd started from the above linked principle. I know that's a lot to ask for the Internet, but it's a trait that makes online communities like this one a whole lot more productive than, say, an online community of teenage PC gamers.

You have lots of drivers, and lots of amps, but also a lot to learn about acoustic design. I'd recommend proceeding with your 21" subwoofers (though you'll need some monstrous enclosures), but then designing a pair of efficient 2-way main speakers using a single Pyle pro audio 12" (paper cone, pleated fabric surround) and one of your compression drivers on the 10" (or maybe they're the 8"?) round waveguides per side. It's possible to rework your current system into something with much better audio performance with fewer drivers than what you've used. You might even be able to work the rest of your 8" and 12" woofers in there somehow. You will also need to learn more about crossover design, starting with the understanding that an off-the-shelf crossover is not appropriate for the majority of drivers in the majority of configurations, and designing a custom crossover for your speaker projects is essential to getting the performance you paid for from your drivers.

Sound Reproduction by Floyd Toole (http://www.amazon.com/Sound-Reproduction-Acoustics-Psychoacoustics-Loudspeakers/dp/0240520092)

Take a look at this book, written by a JBL acoustic engineer. You don't need to go far into it to pick up some ideas that will greatly help you in designing systems that perform well acoustically.

You simply don't know what you're talking about.
This system is comprised totally of 1980-1990 Pyle Pros where these were mainly designed as drivers for Sound Stage Reinforcement ... that is, the choice of musicians.

That is, the Thiele/Small parameters of these drivers (or the process of generating parameters from a target response known as synthesis) doesn't require such sophistication as ordering or any other precise excursion parameters/requirements ... these are also Pyle Crossovers designed for these drivers ... (see such systems from Tannoy and Klipsch (La Scala) of the genre) ... and they only require massive cu/ft enclosures (port tuned) and as power robbing power sucking drivers ... big amps ...

You should stick to your own stuff especially why your designs sound great in the studio but sound like **** in most peoples' practical listening enviornments ... like their living rooms ...



Pyle Pro 12160/4 from 1989 ... 12" with 160 oz. Magnet

http://i55.tinypic.com/33tpms6.jpg

[Mipsconsult]

"these were mainly designed as drivers for Sound Stage Reinforcement ... that is, the choice of musicians."

Musicians 'in the know' avoided Pyle speakers like the plague. PRO MI & SR divers, for starters, have cast frames. Pyle was the cheapest stuff around and that's why so many were sold....and eventually discarded because the preformed & sounded BAD. They were the Behringer of their day....and still are. Their stuff is worse today than it was back then.

"these are also Pyle Crossovers designed for these drivers..."

So the equation reads as follows: cr&p + po*p = sh#t.

You sir, are clueless.

[eddierox]

"these were mainly designed as drivers for Sound Stage Reinforcement ... that is, the choice of musicians."

Musicians 'in the know' avoided Pyle speakers like the plague. PRO MI & SR divers, for starters, have cast frames. Pyle was the cheapest stuff around and that's why so many were sold....and eventually discarded because the preformed & sounded BAD. They were the Behringer of their day....and still are. Their stuff is worse today than it was back then.

"these are also Pyle Crossovers designed for these drivers..."

So the equation reads as follows: cr&p + po*p = sh#t.

You sir, are clueless.

Yeah sure ... that's why they were so expensive ($200-$400 apiece for subwoofers) ... LOL !
Let me guess, you're another one of the *Know it All **** don't Stink* members here ...

No sweat, we see your kind everyday and you're always laughable ...




I prefer the narrative of members who share their stuff and always ask questions ... before, during and after builds/designs ...

Take for instance *New Pyle Stuff* like you say like my 21 inchers ... I've been looking for a good slot design cabinet but wasn't sure about some the parameters and of course eveyone has *their own recommendations* ... none of which impressed me ...

So I emailed this guy on Ebay ...

*Pair of 6 cubic foot 1" MDF mahogany veneered subwoofer cabinets with brand new Dayton Classic 18" subwoofers powered by Dayton HPSA1000's for about a thousand bucks*

http://www.ebay.com/itm/250885064349?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Powered-18-subwoofer-pair-equipment-rack-/00/$(KGrHqQOKi!E5L6M2reTBOWRlGZuN!~~_1.JPG


I simply asked: "Hi, who designed the subwoofer cabinets so I can get a better idea of its sound parameters ... thanks, Eddie*

His reply:

"Eddie-

They were designed by a company called Visionary Audio, they are no longer in buisness.
They are in an EBS alignment tuned @ 18Hz with 30in2 of vent area.
They are flat to roughly 23Hz anechoic and will produce around 120db in room at full power (2000 watts) at 20Hz when ran as a pair.

Hope this answers some of the questions.

-Mike "


A good thorough response to a simple question and gave me a pretty good idea on how I will do an adjustable slot design in an 8 cu/ft. cabinet for the 21 inchers ...


So you see, this is what I call a professional narrative ... the prefered narrative here ...

So get on with your bad-azz **** don't stank-self ... LOL !

[PunkSweeper]

So you're going to design a box for a 21" "Pro Audio" driver based on an EBS design for home audio 18"s?

[mattp]

They are flat to roughly 23Hz anechoic and will produce around 120db in room at full power (2000 watts) at 20Hz when ran as a pair.

I'm sure the flat to 23 Hz anechoic stuff is accurate but 2000 watts would incinerate those woofers. FWIW, I've modeled those Pyle 21's and the SEALED box was about 44 cuft. I'm sure they wouldn't do bad for IB but you would still be limited on the bottom end. Not hatin' or anything just my $0.02.

EDIT: In case you don't have/can't get measured specs for that, here they are:

Fs: 27 Hz
Re: 7.8 ohms
Qt: .66
Qe: .89
Qm: 2.6
Le (1k): 3.3
Vas: 27 cuft
SPL: ~95 dB

[Chris Roemer]

[QUOTE=eddierox;1762045]
So I emailed this guy on Ebay ...

*Pair of 6 cubic foot 1" MDF mahogany veneered subwoofer cabinets with brand new Dayton Classic 18" subwoofers powered by Dayton HPSA1000's for about a thousand bucks*

http://www.ebay.com/itm/250885064349?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Powered-18-subwoofer-pair-equipment-rack-/00/$(KGrHqQOKi!E5L6M2reTBOWRlGZuN!~~_1.JPG


I simply asked: "Hi, who designed the subwoofer cabinets so I can get a better idea of its sound parameters ... thanks, Eddie*

His reply:

"Eddie-

They were designed by a company called Visionary Audio, they are no longer in buisness.
They are in an EBS alignment tuned @ 18Hz with 30in2 of vent area.
They are flat to roughly 23Hz anechoic and will produce around 120db in room at full power (2000 watts) at 20Hz when ran as a pair.

Hope this answers some of the questions.

-Mike "



A good thorough response to a simple question and gave me a pretty good idea on how I will do an adjustable slot design in an 8 cu/ft. cabinet for the 21 inchers ...


Any toddler just starting out with WinISD can see that those boxes aren't big enough for those e Dayton subs to reach that low. -3dB in the mid to upper 30's in those boxes if actually tuned to 18 Hz.

Their voice coils will puddle at 300 RMS, and they're out of X at 240w in those cabs still an octave above the 18Hz tuning freq. , so I can understand how you'd think they'd survive 1000w each at 20 Hz.

Actually, if you watercooled the coils so they COULD take 1000w RMS, they WOULD hang below Xmax at 20Hz, but all through the 30's they'd be excursing over double that amount. Also, a PAIR SHOULD be able to push 120dB at their combined 500w input level, but only in a narrow band from about 60 to 100 Hz or so. Still pretty awesome.

Of course, NONE of this has anything to to with what may or may not be a proper cab for your 21" Pile woofers. But then, you knew that, right?

Chris

[jcpahman77]

I have no idea where this conversation is going anymore, but I know I heard something about stuff musicians like, which I cannot speak directly to. However, for the money and power we're talking about here I can make some recommendations as a FOH guy.

These will hit loud enough volumes to make anyone happy and may be some of the most well defined pro speakers I've ever heard:
http://www.jblpro.com/BackOffice/ProductPictures/23d92c8d-a129-41f9-a602-0d3e4e7ea5a1.jpg (http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/general/Product.aspx?PId=41&MId=4)

For the bottom end these shake a building all the way to its foundation, and hold power with ease:
http://www.jblpro.com/BackOffice/ProductPictures/5a9d9087-9f44-419e-acde-b71f7a9d18ae.jpg (http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/general/Product.aspx?PId=118&MId=3)

For each stereo set of the JBL VRX932LA-1's you have power them with one of these:
http://www.qscaudio.com/images/products/rmx/RMX2450_front.jpg (http://www.qscaudio.com/products/amps/rmx/rmx.htm)

If you need more than 2 of the SRX728S's more power to you, but they wake up nicely when connected in stereo to one of these:
http://www.qscaudio.com/images/products/rmx/RMX5050_front.jpg (http://www.qscaudio.com/products/amps/rmx/rmx5050.htm)

Of course all of this is just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[dtkeith]

Yeah sure ... that's why they were so expensive ($200-$400 apiece for subwoofers) ... LOL !
Let me guess, you're another one of the *Know it All **** don't Stink* members here ...

No sweat, we see your kind everyday and you're always laughable ...


So you see, this is what I call a professional narrative ... the prefered narrative here ...


Ok... Really..... This thread has gotten as far away from professional as I think it could... You have quite a few people with reputable backgrounds and highly regarded designs trying to point out things that you could do better in future builds. And all you've done is criticize them, and be incredibly rude. You have to admit that there are people who can do things that you can't, once you are able to learn humility you can easily work to become equally well versed in the hobby. Until then, learn when to listen to someone who is trying to help you, and if you think your way is better, try explaining it without insults and making an a@@ out of yourself.

And one more thing, price is never a good indication of quality, especially when it comes to speakers. Most main stream companies, Pyle included i'm sure, mark up their junk products because most consumers see something that is cheap, and just assume that it's crap. So mark it up 200-300% and then people are more likely to buy it, based on the assumption 'This was expensive, so it must be good.'

Just my $.02

[eddierox]

Ok... Really..... This thread has gotten as far away from professional as I think it could... You have quite a few people with reputable backgrounds and highly regarded designs trying to point out things that you could do better in future builds. And all you've done is criticize them, and be incredibly rude. You have to admit that there are people who can do things that you can't, once you are able to learn humility you can easily work to become equally well versed in the hobby. Until then, learn when to listen to someone who is trying to help you, and if you think your way is better, try explaining it without insults and making an a@@ out of yourself.

And one more thing, price is never a good indication of quality, especially when it comes to speakers. Most main stream companies, Pyle included i'm sure, mark up their junk products because most consumers see something that is cheap, and just assume that it's crap. So mark it up 200-300% and then people are more likely to buy it, based on the assumption 'This was expensive, so it must be good.'

Just my $.02

I think the important thing is that this design/build is based on the Mcintosh XRT28 loudspeakers which sound like **** for 10 grand ... based on listening to my buddys' McIntosh System and who longed for an *extreme set* of old school pyles he once had ... so I thought I could help him out and do better ... I did ... and now I like them simply because they're wicked-evil loudass and probably capable of 130dB @ 0 distortion ... (yes distortion as a function of jet-liner take-off dB) ...


I'm surprised some of the resident pros didn't catch on to this ... maybe they're not so pro after all ...


http://i55.tinypic.com/30ng50g.jpghttp://i52.tinypic.com/1z3cxlk.jpg

[patrickm]

... and now I like them simply because they're wicked-evil loudass and probably capable of 130dB @ 0 distortion ... (yes distortion as a function of jet-liner take-off dB) ...

I'm surprised some of the resident pros didn't catch on to this ... maybe they're not so pro after all ...


i didn't realize the distortion would be that high. i would've expected even less than zero distortion. especially if i were playing jet-engine levels in my living room.

[eddierox]

i didn't realize the distortion would be that high. i would've expected even less than zero distortion. especially if i were playing jet-engine levels in my living room.

Perhaps ... I'm only of the opinion extreme dB's aren't possible with (any) distortion(s) ... something that occured to me at SPL competitions ... just my *psuedo-pro* opinion ...

:p