New builder just started AviaTrix sealed kit from Parts Express

[wjm]

Hi all,
I am just starting a AviaTrix build for my HT.
This is my first time doing a speaker build.
I built the boxes Sunday and ordered the PE kit yesterday.
The hard part for me will be assembling the cross-over, but I am going to follow the videos on the PE web site.
Any gotchas other than the speaker screws are not included in the kit?

[wjm]

Attached box pic

[wjm]

Two baffles, two mistakes...

[fastbike1]

Could stand a little more bracing. Don't put the braces at exact intervals (middle, 1/3 etc.). You want to break up standing waves.

Attached box pic

[wjm]

I was following the cut list from
"http://speakerdesignworks.com/AviaTrix_3.html"

Is is OK to change things around much?
Because I have never built a speaker before, I am trying not to freelance too much

[DIYNut42]

The first picture on your baffles looks like the router bit wasn't tight enough in the collet. Don't be afraid to put some torque behind it when tightening them in. As far as bracing goes, it's up to you. I agree with fastbike, but thats just my oppinion. If anything you could stand to put a few dowel rod braces in there running up and down like the middle one is. As long as you don't go crazy with it and affect the air volume inside the enclosure, then you should be fine.

[fastbike1]

Following on DIYnut42's router comment. Here's another router trick. Don't bottom the bit in the collet. That can produce increased vibration, which may make the bit chatter, or loosen the collet. If you already know this, my apologies.

I surprised at the drawings because Curt and Wayne definitely know what they're doing. Offsetting the bracing an be subtle but doesn't hurt.

[Soundslike]

By now, you've probably corrected the problem with the driver cutouts. But, just in case you're still looking for a solution, I thought I'd chime in. I mix sawdust with white glue to make a filler that can be applied to the areas you want to build back up. Applying it can be a little tricky, and it will require two or more applications. Also, it does shrink at it dries out, but it produces a strong repair. If I were doing it, I'd make semi-circular form out of thin cardboard to keep the filler where you want it -- within the recess you cut with the router. Once the material is built back up, you'll want to do a bit of trimming with whatever you have. I use coarse sandpaper stretched over a tubular object about the shape of a spray can to shape the inside edge. If you have an old piece of plastic pipe, that will likely work best. The recess surface can be worked with a sharp chisel.

You're going to love the speakers...

[beemain]

Following on DIYnut42's router comment. Here's another router trick. Don't bottom the bit in the collet. That can produce increased vibration, which may make the bit chatter, or loosen the collet. If you already know this, my apologies.

I surprised at the drawings because Curt and Wayne definitely know what they're doing. Offsetting the bracing an be subtle but doesn't hurt.

and don't make all your cut in one pass, increase your depth with a few passes reducing the amount of work on the bit

[wjm]

Thanks for all of the tips.
The problem was I did not tighten the router base after adjusting the depth of cut. I am more of a woodworker than anything else, so that was a little embarrassing.
The good news is MDF is cheap so I just make another one.

As far as bracing goes, how much can you put int there before it takes up too much volume?

I received the kit today so now I can do things I have never done before.
Making that cross-over...

[fastbike1]

Sort of depends on how big the box is. However 1" dia dowels work just fine and you wouldn't need more than 3 or 4 for the box you're currently building (includea the brace already there). For example two dowels in addition to the center brace should be fine.



As far as bracing goes, how much can you put int there before it takes up too much volume?

I received the kit today so now I can do things I have never done before.
Making that cross-over...

[wjm]

Thanks fastbike,
The box size is 18 1/2" wide, 5" tall and 10" deep.
It is supposed to be a center channel.
Not sure if this is a stupid question, I have some 1-1/4" wooden closet rod.
I think it is pretty strong stuff.
I could cut a couple or three of 5" sections and put them in side with deck screws.
I take it I don't want these are regular intervals, too?

I did the cross-over assembly voodoo.
I would have thought a diagram would come with the kit too. Lucky for me the video was just what I was supposed to do.:)
I guess you don't know how you did until you hook it up?
I have some of that thick clear copper speaker wire from Home Depot.
Suppose that would be good to hook the internal wiring?
Seeing how thin the connectors are inside of the box that real heavy gauge stuff seems like over kill.

What is the preferred way to mount a cross-over inside?
I would guess screws so you can take it out?
I will have to buy spade connectors as they were not in the kit.
As well as screws for the speakers.

[wjm]

Well, I finished both enclosures and crossovers and put everything together last week.
All seems to be working good. I tested by wiring them on top of my Klipsch KG4.2s and it sounded really good. What a relief!

I still don't have a good way to attach the crossovers inside of the box.
This will eventually be for L/C/R, and the crossover is too wide to mount on the skinny side of the box (so it would be on the bottom as pictured).

I used Velcro with double sided tape.
Not very confident about that, those things are heavy!

Is there any problem with 'stretching' the way the some crossovers are put together if they need to be part of a L/R/C set?

I started the second pair of boxes and will be picking up some veneer to wrap them.
They will probably sound ever better when I put them in a finished box :)


13941

[tech9_79]

I still don't have a good way to attach the crossovers inside of the box.
This will eventually be for L/C/R, and the crossover is too wide to mount on the skinny side of the box (so it would be on the bottom as pictured).

I used Velcro with double sided tape.
Not very confident about that, those things are heavy!



13941

i just shoot a screw in at an angle at the bottom of the box. velcros not gonna last.

[Soundslike]

I meant to reply earlier to some of the questions you asked -- I'm surprised that you didn't get a lot or responses. There are a lot of helpful and knowledgeable people that frequent this forum. Looks like you've solved most of the issues yourself. Here's my input on your latest questions:


I still don't have a good way to attach the crossovers inside of the box.
This will eventually be for L/C/R, and the crossover is too wide to mount on the skinny side of the box (so it would be on the bottom as pictured)

I'm not certain about what you mean regarding the crossover being too wide -- but I think you're saying that when the speakers are standing vertically as they are in your photo, the bottom of the enclosure (the bottom being the lowest surface when the speaker is standing as pictured) is where you intend to mount the crossovers. If so, that location will be fine. I've seen crossovers mounted in a variety of different locations, but the only guidance I can recall reading was in David Weems' book. Weems advised putting the crossover inside the enclosure (assuming you weren't going to need frequent access to it) and to place it as far away from the drivers as possible. As I say, I've noticed that the rule is not always followed, so most likely his advice is based on the possibility that the crossover could be affected by the magnetic field generated by the drivers, as opposed to a strong likelihood that it will be affected. From a structural standpoint, I think it's wise to mount the crossover board horizontally on the lowest surface of the enclosure, so that gravity is working for you, and not against you trying to pull the board and/or it's components off. I like to use double-sided tape, widely available and sometimes called mounting tape. However, if the board is to be mounted on the side of the enclosure (here again, the term I'm using (side) pertains to your photo) I would recommend a more permanent method such as screws of suitable length, carpenter's glue, or construction adhesive. I posted a build log in which I discussed the methods I use for mounting. Click on the link near my signature, if you're interested.


Is there any problem with 'stretching' the way the some crossovers are put together if they need to be part of a L/R/C set?

I'm not certain what you mean here, but I'm guessing that you want to change the layout that's suggested in the video. If so, you can customize the layout of components on the board. You'll find that many of the most popular designs don't specify how components are laid out on the board -- that means that there are probably as many variations as there are builders. Making sure the circuitry is correct is vital, of course. There is one rule though, pertaining to the inductors (coils) -- they should be oriented differently, i.e., one standing like a tire mounted on a car, and the other one mounted horizontally, like the tire is usually stored in the trunk. You should also maximize the distance between the two within the constraints of your board size. Even though the Aviatrix crossover uses one iron core inductor, I think it's wise to place one in a corner, and then place the other in the opposite corner, before starting to arrange the placement of the other components.

From an earlier post...

Is is OK to change things around much?

I'm surprised you didn't get a quick answer to this earlier question, but you've probably already figured it out. I strongly recommend not deviating from the design, without first corresponding with the designer. I probably should go back and read the responses again before commenting -- but in case this hasn't been addressed -- the interior volume of the enclosure, the baffle dimensions, the port size, driver placement, bracing, stuffing recommendations, and by all means the circuitry of the crossover, should all be followed closely. If the designer approves a change you want to make, you're safe. I've also noticed that some designers are more casual than others about changes. The bottom line for me is I want what I'm making to sound like the designer intended, so I avoid introducing variables by altering their design. Someday, maybe, I'll be capable of straying a little, but I'll always check with the designer first.

[wjm]

Thanks Soundslike and tech9_79,

I guess for most instances double sided tape would seem like a good choice.
Or I might try hot melt glue, that way I can remove it by heating it up...
If I use a screw, it might vibrate? Any thoughts?
Does one ever remove a crossover after the speaker is done?
Should I even worry that much about it?

For the speakers that will be "upright" (L and R), the "floor" of the speaker is only 5".
I will assume that having some wired with a squarish layout and the others with a more rectangular layout (so that it will fit on the "floor") will sound the same.
Perhaps I am over thinking this.
I will not be changing logically how the crossover is connected, but physically, so it would fit on a 3"X7" board.

I used some thick speaker wire for the first ones, seemed like a mistake, the few wires were surprisingly heavy and floppy.
Anyone have a favorite wire?

[wjm]

I was following the cut list from
"http://speakerdesignworks.com/AviaTrix_3.html"

Is is OK to change things around much?


As it turned out I didn't have the wood dowels to add for bracing, so the cabinet design is the same as original.

[ReissM]

These are looking good.

If it's not too late... move your coils to look like this picture.

It will eliminate crosstalk in the coils. As I was telling another speaker builder recently, it's not enough to have them 90 degrees from each other. They need to be the "correct" 90 degree orientation.

[Soundslike]

I guess for most instances double sided tape would seem like a good choice.
Or I might try hot melt glue, that way I can remove it by heating it up...
If I use a screw, it might vibrate? Any thoughts?
Does one ever remove a crossover after the speaker is done?
Should I even worry that much about it?

In my humble opinion, you're thinking about this project appropriately, i.e., you're obviously thinking about what you're doing, and that leads to questions. You'll have fewer the next time you do a build. It's good that you're asking.

Regarding the hot melt, that should work, but I think it would be harder to remove than either screws or double-sided tape. If you choose to use screws, I can't foresee any likelihood that they would back out. I'd make a choice based on whatever seems easiest too do, because you're unlikely to ever need to remove them. Unless you opt for a removable baffle, you'll be working through the driver cutouts so access may drive the decision. I did notice that you haven't filled the screw holes yet -- you're probably still able to get in there if you need to.

As for why some builders make sure the crossovers are readily accessible, that's usually when changes are anticipated, such as when a crossover design is still undergoing refinement. One other possible reason with the Aviatrix -- there are three (I think) different variations of the same basic crossover network. I'm not sure if that applies to all variants of the design, but it does apply to the MLTL. With the MLTL, Curt Campbell recommends a different resistor value, depending on whether the speakers are going to be used near to a wall, or far from a wall. I should add one more reason you might need access -- recently, I opened up an old set of speakers given to me by my neighbor. When I examined the crossover network, such as it was, I noticed that the particle board on which a resistor was mounted had been toasted to a nice dark brown. That was caused by overheating of the resistor. When I asked my neighbor whether the speakers had been subjected to long high volume usage, he confided that his sons used to play them at full volume while he was away at work. So, if you're going to use your speakers that way, you'll probably want to make sure you can get the crossovers out should it become necessary.

Finally, orientation of the inductors relative to one another is important. I'm in agreement with a previous poster. Rather than trying to explain with my feeble understanding of electronics, take a look at what the article here has to say:

http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/inductor-coil-crosstalk-basics

You may notice that two air core coils are used in the experiment discussed in the article referenced above. The Aviatrix uses an ironcore inductor, but according to the knowledgeable posters in the following thread, the principle is the same.

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?t=199660

Curt has a recommended layout on his website:

http://speakerdesignworks.com/AviaTrix_5.html

Here's a photo of the layout. Note that Curt recommends limiting the board width to no more than 4 1/2" so it can be installed and uninstalled through the driver cutout.

http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g414/PCIaint/aviatrixCrossoverLayoutSealed3-716x488.jpg

[wjm]

Marty,
I guess I need to define "too late".
I have two done like the first pic.
My goal is five speakers total for HT.
That was kind of the question I was asking when asking about if I can change from the square layout to a long and skinny layout.
I guess I could undo the solder connections...

Sorry for the noob questions, but as long as cross-over schematic is followed,and the coil issue is followed, does it matter how far apart each component is?
I need everything to fit on something less than 5 inches wide.



13952

PS the cut and paste you did,

[Soundslike]

Marty,
I guess I need to define "too late".
I have two done like the first pic.
My goal is five speakers total for HT.
That was kind of the question I was asking when asking about if I can change from the square layout to a long and skinny layout.
I guess I could undo the solder connections...

Sorry for the noob questions, but as long as cross-over schematic is followed,and the coil issue is followed, does it matter how far apart each component is?
I need everything to fit on something less than 5 inches wide.



13952

PS the cut and paste you did,

I completely missed your point also. The "long and skinny layout" you refer to is the MLTL design. All the details are on Curt's website -- you probably already know this, but Curt is the designer of the Aviatrix. You may want to thoroughly read Curt's article.

[wjm]

Soundslike,
I got cross posted. I am a little slow with the typing (hopefully being careful, but that doesn't always work)
I will read your links tonight, thanks a lot.
As this was my first time, I choose to follow the video on the PE web site...
Wasn't thinking about where in the box it would go yet.
I did make sure it fits through the driver hole in the baffle.
But the leads(?) stick out the side.

P.S. The screws aren't covered because of first-time excitement. :)
There's a joke in there somewhere...
My goal is 5 total , so I have 2 more boxes that I built and I am picking up the veneer for and I will transfer the "speaker guts" over to when I am done.
I was trying to talk someone at PE to offer a 3 speaker kit to save some $ but they didn't buy into it. (it is for a 5.1 or 7.1 setup, right? :) )

[wjm]

Soundslike,
I got cross posted again, you are too fast for me!
I am doing the sealed version.
The long and skinny was for the board I was assembling the cross-over on.
To have the crossover on the bottom (5" side) of a Left or Right things need to move around (from what was in the video).
I will read over the article on Curt's website (carefully).
Would there be an impact with mixed layouts?

Man, I have so many questions... there should be a crossover pic gallery, seems like that might be more important than the pretty speaker pics!

[Soundslike]

Soundslike,
I got cross posted again, you are too fast for me!
I am doing the sealed version.
The long and skinny was for the board I was assembling the cross-over on.
To have the crossover on the bottom (5" side) of a Left or Right things need to move around (from what was in the video).
I will read over the article on Curt's website (carefully).
Would there be an impact with mixed layouts?

Man, I have so many questions... there should be a crossover pic gallery, seems like that might be more important than the pretty speaker pics!

Okay, now we're on the same page. You can rearrange the parts on the crossover board, as long as you duplicate the paths everything follows. As discussed earlier, the orientation of the inductors is important also. I changed the crossover layout for the Avitrix MLTLs I will be building, but my focus was on making it more compact. I'd send you the drawing, but it would be different for the sealed version anyway.

You're really jumping in quick with this project. You don't mess around... Five speakers in the same project. You'll want to build a sub too, then you'll have a complete 5.1 system (LF, RF, C, LR, LF, and subwoofer).

I wish you'd been successful trying to get a discounted price on a single set of Aviatrix parts. What state are you in? You'll probably be able to sell the unneeded half of the kit with no problem -- I'd be interested if you're not too far away. Nevermind -- I see you're in NY. Can't get too much further away than that from Arizona. My wife was born in Endicott and still has some family there...

[wjm]

Soundslike,
I guess its more ambitious than I thought.
But I started off slow with one pair.
It sure is easy to get turned around reading about all of this stuff from different web sites and sources.
I was reading on diyaudio.com about construction materials.. I thought my head was going to pop off...
The good thing about this project is you can make one speaker out of a 2x4 piece of MDF and still have left overs for baffle mistakes. :)

I am still trying to figure out who to bother about a three speaker kit, as I have not ordered it yet. Anyone from PE want to comment ?
It's not hard to have a parts list for both two and three speakers, its the computer age after all. Its not like I am buying two left hand shoes.

As far as my cross over, I guess I am not going to worry about the electrons going two or three extra inches on a different sized board that the others.

[Hosejockey61]

I just bought the parts to make a 7.1 system. I had to buy three kits and then add the miscellaneous parts to get everything I needed. I ended up with two extra woofers and a crapload of crossover parts. Not a big deal though because it was still far cheaper that buying everything individually. On top of that I have a couple of spare woofers in case my kids decide to crank 'em up louder than they should. The other thing is that I now have a crapload of acousta-stuf too.