Overnight Sens'n for desktop

[Tweaker]

I've been lurking for a while trying to decide on a pair of speakers for my home office. I finally decided on Overnight Sensations with the B4N being on sale and all.
So, here goes!

I chose to make mine out of 1/2" oak. Hommey D sells an 8-1/4" X 4' piece for around $15. It will take two.
I ripped the board to width and then cut the lengths (top, bottom and sides) by cutting at a 45degree angle at each edge. I don't want to see the end grain when Im finished and I didn't want to go the route of veneer.

After cutting the wood, I laid out two lengths of masking tape on a piece of plywood sticky side up.
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Next, lay out the panels outside facing down on the tape

You may notice I also daddoed the rear edge of the box to insert the rear panel. The rear panel will be made of 1/2" MDF I've got left over from another experiment gone bad....
The front baffle will be made of 3/4" MDF and I'll daddo that to set inside the box by 1/4"
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I loaded up the edges pretty good since I don't intend to clamp up the box.
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After this, simply fold up the box and wrap up the tape at the ends to hold it all together. I double checked with a square, and hey! It's squrare! The glue squezes out pretty good, so have a damp rag on hand to clean that up. But be gentle, no man-handling without clamps.
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I left it overnight to set up and then glued in gussetts at the front and back of the box, both for strengthening, and to screw down the front and back panels. I'm surprised at how strong this box is. I did this on a test piece earlier and it totally wrecked the edges when I broke them apart. I had to use a hammer against the garage floor to bust them. If you did this on a wood softer than oak, I'm not even sure it would break at the joint.
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I'm planning on using the Minwax Bombay Mahogany Polyshades for the finish. This one's a real dark redish color like mahogany I want to try.

I'll let y'all know how it goes!
G.

[arlis_1957@yahoo.com]

thats exactly the way i build wine or other decatorive boxes, except with plywood bottoms. plus a few splines.

[Soundslike]

Interesting that you used tape -- did you get a nice tight joint? Keep us posted on your progress...

[Tweaker]

On to the next step, apllying the finish.

I really like the deep color of the Minwax Bombay Mahogany, but it's really difficult to apply with a brush. The finish builds up at sharp edges and when you attempt to brush out the buildup you leave behind a light brush mark where you made contact with the wood.
I didn't take any pictures of the problem on the project, but here's an example of what happens.
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I think part of the problem is that oak is such an incredibly hard wood and when sanded down really smooth, the wood won't absorb the finish. I sanded the boxes with 120 grit, 180 grit, and 400 grit. They're really nice and smooth.

I went ahead and put several coats of the finish on with the brush and then sanded back down to mostly bare wood. The reason for that is the deep grain pattern of oak. I wanted to fill in the deep pores so that I end up with a really smooth finish. I suppose I could have used something like a sanding filler, but I wanted to make sure I don't screw up the color.

I made a trip to my local Harbor Freight and picked up this cute little sprayer (Around $22). It's great for small projects like this.
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I tried spraying the finish on a piece of scrap without thinning the verathane.
I think it looks a bit too heavy for the first coats.
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My feeling is that I want my first few coats of finish to be very thin so they don't build up. If you go the route of a sprayer, just play with it till you don't get splatters, just really fine mist. Test it on some scrap if its' too thin and the finish will run, too heavy and you get splatters and blobs in the finish.

I ended up mixing about 1 part mineral spirits with 3 parts verathane. It goes on a bit lighter in color, but I think multiple light coats are the way to start something like this.
It's starting to come together nicely! I'm really loving this color.
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Notice the dead soldier that has been retired to paint bench duty? HA!

That was an experiment gone bad. I built a set of MTM's for my home theater using the Jamo 5" buyouts. That's another subject for another day, but I gotta say, those Jamo's ROCK! I'm so surprised. I paired them up with a Vifa DQ25 and modeled my xover from the Zaph ZA5.3 MTM and ZA5.3 MTMc. This box was the first try at building a cabinet. Too many problems to continue, so I started over and got it right the next time.

OK, back to this project.....
Notice the triangles under the boxes, those were the edges left over from cutting the oak corners to 45 degrees. They ended up making nice little finish stands.

So, here's a picture of one of the finished boxes.
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I'll let you in on one small secret.
I had a problem at the edges of each joint on one of the boxes. the problem was that the oak board was slightly warped and even though the front and rear edges matched perfectly, the middle of the joint had about a 1/32" gap at the outside edge. I used a little DAP red oak plastic wood to fill the gap.
Once I sanded the box down, you couldn't tell there was ever a problem.

OK, now on to the baffle!
Regards,
Greg D.

[zomby woof]

That's how I've always built my cabinets.
As long as your 45's are good, you'll get a nice tight, square cabinet.
I use packaging tape because it stretches.

[Tweaker]

Good point,
Hind sight, I would probably do the same next time. The blue masking tape probably isn't as strong as it could be for something like this.
Regards,
Greg D.

[Tweaker]

Interesting that you used tape -- did you get a nice tight joint? Keep us posted on your progress...

Hi Soundlike,
Yes, it seemed to do well. Read down in my next post for one slight problem I ran into because of the wood being a bit warped. But the joints seem to be quite strong and they look nice.

I'd probably not do this for a larger project but I think it's fine for something like a bookshelf sized speaker. I also think the gussets help in the long run as well as providing a place to mount the back and the baffle. Just be sure the glue at the box joints has fully set or the gusset may force them apart when they are clamped in.
Regards,
Greg D.

[ahaurw01]

Noob here-
How did you go about making such nice, precise 45 degree-cut sides? Invariably when I cut side panels with my circ saw I have to sand down some of the panels to fit properly together. I'd like to try something like this on my next project so the end grain doesn't show.

[707kevin]

It takes a good, calibrated saw to make perfect miters. Even then you need to make some test cuts and adjust as needed before making final cuts. once you have your saw set up for a cut, DON'T change anything until you've made all similar cuts.

[Tweaker]

Noob here-
How did you go about making such nice, precise 45 degree-cut sides? Invariably when I cut side panels with my circ saw I have to sand down some of the panels to fit properly together. I'd like to try something like this on my next project so the end grain doesn't show.

I used a table saw.
I don't think you could get it done with a hand-held circular saw. Especially with oak, it's so darn hard.
I've done some really nice cuts on a circular saw, but not with the standard framing blades that come with the saw.
Look for a blade with a higher tooth count, thinner kerf and carbide tips.

I'll tell you one tip that I find helps a lot with a circular saw.
Create a simple cutting guide.
Take a piece of 1/4" hard board (also called masonite) about 10" wide and whatever length you need. I have one for 4-1/2 feet and one for 8 feet.
Screw/ glue a 1X3 piece of pine/fir, whatever to one edge of the hard board. Make sure it's a good straight piece.
The bottom hard board should be wider than the table of your circular saw. Place your circular saw up against the piece of 3/4" stock and run the saw the length of your cutting board. You've now got a guide that's exactly the correct width to compensate for the difference between the edge of the blade and the outside edge of the saw's base table.

No More "Lemme see, I want it cut to 8 inches, plus 5-3/16" for the width of the saw base".
Just line up the edge you cut off against the material you want to cut and clamp the guide down to your material.
WHALA! perfect cuts every time without doing the math.
You've heard measure twice cut once, Well, I'm more like "I cut it three times and it's still too short!"
Tools are good...... Ask any monkey.
Regards,
Greg D.

[ahaurw01]

I used a table saw.
I don't think you could get it done with a hand-held circular saw. Especially with oak, it's so darn hard.
I've done some really nice cuts on a circular saw, but not with the standard framing blades that come with the saw.
Look for a blade with a higher tooth count, thinner kerf and carbide tips.

I'll tell you one tip that I find helps a lot with a circular saw.
Create a simple cutting guide.
Take a piece of 1/4" hard board (also called masonite) about 10" wide and whatever length you need. I have one for 4-1/2 feet and one for 8 feet.
Screw/ glue a 1X3 piece of pine/fir, whatever to one edge of the hard board. Make sure it's a good straight piece.
The bottom hard board should be wider than the table of your circular saw. Place your circular saw up against the piece of 3/4" stock and run the saw the length of your cutting board. You've now got a guide that's exactly the correct width to compensate for the difference between the edge of the blade and the outside edge of the saw's base table.

No More "Lemme see, I want it cut to 8 inches, plus 5-3/16" for the width of the saw base".
Just line up the edge you cut off against the material you want to cut and clamp the guide down to your material.
WHALA! perfect cuts every time without doing the math.
You've heard measure twice cut once, Well, I'm more like "I cut it three times and it's still too short!"
Tools are good...... Ask any monkey.
Regards,
Greg D.

I'm definitely going to do this for my next cuts, sounds like a much better approach. You're right, the "cut x inches plus blah blah blah" gets really old after a while and is prone to errors.

Thanks very much for the tips! I'll let you get back to the project, can't wait to see the finished build.

[Tweaker]

I'm definitely going to do this for my next cuts, sounds like a much better approach. You're right, the "cut x inches plus blah blah blah" gets really old after a while and is prone to errors.

Thanks very much for the tips! I'll let you get back to the project, can't wait to see the finished build.

Take a look at the link below, this is to Woodsmith and their publications called Shop Notes. If you're just getting started out in woodworking, these are invaluable lessons, shortcuts and tools to help you through projects. Safely and accurately! SAFETY FIRST! Circular saws can be a very dangerous tool!
This particular one has the jig I mentioned above.

http://www.woodsmithshop.com/download/308/7plywoodtips.pdf

you may need to register for their emails to download this, but I'd recommend that anyway.

Looking once again at this particular tip, I see they show using a router against the jig. If you did it this way, you might be able to use a 45degree chamfer bit to cut the beveled edges for the joints.

Measuring could be tricky.....
Remember my motto,
I cut it three times, it's still too short!
Regards,
Greg D.

[Tweaker]

I've got the baffle and back almost ready to go.

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The front baffle is 1/2" MDF with about 4 coats of gray auto primer, wet sanded and then painted with black Hammerite paint.
I'm not sure if I like the Hammerite. It's not quite as dark a black as I was looking for. I may return to this later....

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The back cover is also 1/2" MDF that I just sanded, sprayed a layer of sanding sealer and then sprayed two coats of the Minwax Polyshades. Same color as the oak cabinet.

You can see the xover is mounted with 1/2" dowels drilled through the center to create a stand-off.
In an effort to keep the budget down, I'm using innexpensive banana jacks from RS. The only problem with them is their length. I bore out an inset into the back panel with a Forstner bit and then drill the two holes for the jacks.

It's not gold plated, or gold annodized color, but for desktop speakers, I really don't think that's going to be a problem. But then again, I'd better be careful that the "monsters" don't jump on me. :)

It's physics! Not snake oil!

More to come...
Regards,
Greg D.

[patrickm]

hey - those look good. i've used that same bombay mahogany color before, and it's pretty good stuff. i used a paint edger instead of a brush to apply it, and it lets you clean up edges of the cabinet more easily too. if i have to use a brush to stain with the poly stains, i use a foam one, and 000 or 0000 steel wool between coats. make sure you use a pre-stain oil before you brush... don't know how that'd do with spraying, but it certainly helps get it a lot more even and a little deeper with the foam brush/edger. i found that 3 coats brushed on was about the max, anything else didn't make it any look any better. you might also do a test with one coat of an oil stain as a base, and then spray over that. but what you have looks really good so far.

edit: btw, they don't happen to be the 5" fiberglass cone jamo's, do they? i did a pair of MTM TL cabinets with those that came out pretty well and really cheap and easy. wish they still had those in stock.

[Tweaker]

edit: btw, they don't happen to be the 5" fiberglass cone jamo's, do they? i did a pair of MTM TL cabinets with those that came out pretty well and really cheap and easy. wish they still had those in stock.

No, it's these. They're a polycone.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=299-916

This is a picture of the center channel
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This is the rest of the system.
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[fastbike1]

I pretty much never use a brush for stain anymore. I don't have a spray setup yet, but i have had great results wiping the stain. I typically use a combination of edger and rags. The coat goes on with the edger and gets smoothed and evened out with rags. This takes care of any problem at the edges.




hey - those look good. i've used that same bombay mahogany color before, and it's pretty good stuff. i used a paint edger instead of a brush to apply it, and it lets you clean up edges of the cabinet more easily too. if i have to use a brush to stain with the poly stains, i use a foam one, and 000 or 0000 steel wool between coats. make sure you use a pre-stain oil before you brush... don't know how that'd do with spraying, but it certainly helps get it a lot more even and a little deeper with the foam brush/edger. i found that 3 coats brushed on was about the max, anything else didn't make it any look any better. you might also do a test with one coat of an oil stain as a base, and then spray over that. but what you have looks really good so far.

edit: btw, they don't happen to be the 5" fiberglass cone jamo's, do they? i did a pair of MTM TL cabinets with those that came out pretty well and really cheap and easy. wish they still had those in stock.

[Soundslike]

Take a look at the link below, this is to Woodsmith and their publications called Shop Notes. If you're just getting started out in woodworking, these are invaluable lessons, shortcuts and tools to help you through projects. Safely and accurately! SAFETY FIRST! Circular saws can be a very dangerous tool!
This particular one has the jig I mentioned above.

http://www.woodsmithshop.com/downloa...lywoodtips.pdf

That's a great reference -- there are several great tips there that are particularly useful to speaker builders.

About staining -- for a more even stain application, use the "pre-stain" first. It really does help to achieve a uniform color. I've had pretty good luck simply using mineral spirits applied with a rag too, but for something important like speaker enclosures, I'd purchase the pre-stain.
http://www.paintinganddecoratingconcourse.com/articles/Wood-Conditioner.html
Here's an interesting idea...http://www.ehow.com/how_5912357_make-own-pre_stain-wood-conditioner.html

Finally, I've had great results using spray can polyurethane varnish, if the project isn't too big. The quality of the varnish, and the spray pattern is surprisingly good.

[Tweaker]

I pretty much never use a brush for stain anymore. I don't have a spray setup yet, but i have had great results wiping the stain. I typically use a combination of edger and rags. The coat goes on with the edger and gets smoothed and evened out with rags. This takes care of any problem at the edges.

Hi Fastbike, Thanks for the tip.
I find the Minwax Polyshades need to be applied a bit thicker than wiping on since it's stain and polyurethane combined.
Have you had luck wiping on polyurethane? I've never tried that.

I have to say, that little sprayer from Harbor Freight worked just wonderfully.
I'm really happy with the finish. For the price, I think I'll get a lot of use from it.


About staining -- for a more even stain application, use the "pre-stain" first. It really does help to achieve a uniform color. I've had pretty good luck simply using mineral spirits applied with a rag too, but for something important like speaker enclosures, I'd purchase the pre-stain.
Thanks Soundslike, I've heard about pre-stain but I haven't used it.

Again the key thing about the PolyShades, is it's stain and polyurethane combined. It's designed to be applied just like you would any polyurethane.

Regards,
Greg D.

[fastbike1]

I routinely wipe-on Poly. There are versions made specifically for that task. I really dislike brushes. I use a gel Poly whenever it's compatible with the stain. That's not to say that I don't shellac, but I usually go w/ dye tint/alcohol or dye tint/poly mix first if I want to bring out the figure, then straight poly rather than mess w/ the brush.

I've mentioned it in another thread, but I rarely use Minwax anything. To me, it's the finish equivalent of an NPE cap in a crossover. I have much better results w/ Behlen, General Finishes, or Varathane.

I also do not use pre-stain conditioner on everything. The conditioner is meant to work on some specific species that are prone to blotching. On others, I have found that it "muddies" the grain/figure.


Hi Fastbike, Thanks for the tip.
I find the Minwax Polyshades need to be applied a bit thicker than wiping on since it's stain and polyurethane combined.
Have you had luck wiping on polyurethane? I've never tried that.

I have to say, that little sprayer from Harbor Freight worked just wonderfully.
I'm really happy with the finish. For the price, I think I'll get a lot of use from it.


Thanks Soundslike, I've heard about pre-stain but I haven't used it.

Again the key thing about the PolyShades, is it's stain and polyurethane combined. It's designed to be applied just like you would any polyurethane.

Regards,
Greg D.

[Tweaker]

but I rarely use Minwax anything
You know, this is the first time I've ever used it. I too am a fan of Verathane. Even the darn water based-except if I use the water based I usually hit it with at least one coat of oil based to get the color. The water based looks more like milky water to me.

I wanted to try the Polyshades because I read about it in another thread. I like the color, but hind sight being 20/20 I probably wouldn't do it again.
One other thing is that it seems like it's prone to chipping if it's used where it's going to get abuse. In my application the speakers will be up on stands to clear the rather large monitors on my desk so they won't be bumped against or hit by anything. But the finish does seem a bit fragile.

This little sprayer is really cool, but come summer when I've gotta spray outside and pick up the little flying critters that go along with being outside I'll try wiping on verathane. By request of my lady, the next project is going to be black laquer piano finish.

Later this morning I'll see if cooking the speakers overnight made them sound any better.
G.

[Tweaker]

It looks like my post from earlier this morning didn't get posted, or it got bumped, either way I started listening to these yesterday and wasn't initially impressed.

They sounded lifeless and flat.
I cooked them overnight by disconnecting the tweeters and hooking them up to pink noise.

WAY Better by morning, but still lacking in what I was expecting.

I started digging around in Paul C's posts with others who have built these and found my problem. I used 3/4" MDF for the front baffle and I did chamfer out the back side, but with 3/4" my chamfer was no where near deep enough to let the little guy breathe. I didn't have a chamfer bit on hand large enough to reach that deep so instead I routed out the back side of the baffle to where the mounting area is only about 1/4" thick around the woofer.
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Just for kicks, here's a picture looking from the front to the rear of the cabinet showing the cabinet lining. I was over at Joanne's fabrics a couple of weeks ago and they were closing out batting for filling quilts. A little hot glue to hold it in place and whala!
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I put them back together and wow, what a difference. Now they go deep!
In fact they go so deep I discovered another problem, when pushing them I can hear the air rushing at the back of the cabinet. I used a 1/2" roudover bit on the back opening and that solved the problem.

OK, next issue. The right channel just doesn't get as bright as the left side. Easy fix-put the L pad resistors in the right place! DOH!

On to my favorite audition music.
1st; Emerson Lake and Palmer, From the Beginning (what better way to begin liking a pair of speakers)
2nd; Dave Brubek, Take Five
3rd; Shamekia Copeland Turn the Heat Up
4th; Queen Latifa, whatever-anything this lady sings. The girlfriend goes nuts!
5th; Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon, girlfriend leaves the room.

So, here they are in place and sounding great!
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Another view
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Thanks to all for your input. Now, on to the next project!
Regards,
Greg D.

[fastbike1]

Nicely done. :)

[Paul Carmody]

Nice job! Very professional. I really like the finished product!

Honestly, I didn't realize the 3/4" stock would choke the output of the woofer so much--but I've only done cabinets with 1/2" stock with this woofer. And yeah, there's not a whole lot of venting behind the cone. So, I suppose a good rule-of-thumb is "if you can't see the backside of the cone, then the cone probably can't see the inside of the cabinet."

[Tweaker]

Thanks Paul,
I've got another post going on the Tech forum with a Vifa tweeter and the Dayton ND105-8 speakers in an MTM configuration.

You know, if this driver had a black cone, I'd be building my entire home theater with them. But my decorator insists they need to be black or silver.:)

Thanks for a great design!
G.

[beemain]

Good to hear that you like them, I can't wait to get home an finish mine. Really like what you did