My Gigers.. Tritrix/DVC10

[tech9_79]

So once upon a time.. i bought a $300 Jet table saw, it sucked. I could not get an even straight cut with that thing..guide moved blade seemed to move ect..

so it got me thinking there has to be an easier/better way to do this.. and i wanted to build multiple speakers at once. As you all know cutting takes seconds, setting up takes a lot longer.. so i had an idea.

i call this method "Cold Rolled" and also how i deal with expansion lines.

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n170/tech9_79/parts%20express/IMG_2459.jpg

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n170/tech9_79/parts%20express/IMG_2460.jpg

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n170/tech9_79/parts%20express/IMG_2456.jpg
this was a little tricky.. next time im going to have to refine this.
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n170/tech9_79/parts%20express/IMG_2461.jpg
Proof of concept.
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n170/tech9_79/parts%20express/IMG_2462.jpg
All faces laminated in 1/8in masonite.
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n170/tech9_79/parts%20express/IMG_2483.jpg
Adding the masonite made the cabs sooo much less resonant. Its a much tougher harder smoother surface..night and day.
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n170/tech9_79/parts%20express/IMG_2485.jpg
Wings!!!!!!
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n170/tech9_79/parts%20express/IMG_2486.jpg
With the 1/8 masonite i was able to get a 3/8 roundover without cutting through to the mdf.
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n170/tech9_79/parts%20express/IMG_2488.jpg
I filled any seems with glue then primed with regular polyurethane. Im going to change this. If i can tint the poly or something..it just seemed to need a lot of paint to get a good coat, and with the poor lighting i couldnt really see very well.
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n170/tech9_79/parts%20express/IMG_2490.jpg
Painters touch oil rubbed bronze satin. In sunlight i can still see the brown of the masonite..oh well...they still look great.
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n170/tech9_79/parts%20express/IMG_2492.jpg
My Gigers..Tritrix 15L sealed, enjoy.
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n170/tech9_79/parts%20express/giger2.jpg

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n170/tech9_79/parts%20express/giger3.jpg

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n170/tech9_79/parts%20express/giger4.jpg
10in DVC 2.4cf, 100w
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n170/tech9_79/parts%20express/giger21.jpg

[fastbike1]

I can't see why you would prime w/ poly over masonite and mdf. If you're painting anyway why not use one of the Zinsser primers or something similar.

[panterra]

Very nice! I like the organic feel to the curves.

[707kevin]

I didn't catch your method at first, until I looked at the photos, and I am impressed! Great idea, esp. if you're making more than 2 same size speakers!

I bet next time it will save an incredible amount of time.

[Soundslike]

Another great adaptation/interpretation of Curt and Wayne's great design. Nicely done -- I'd describe the design as modernistic...

[greywarden]

I Love HR Giger! And yes they look great.

[ericJ]

Those look very nice. Like a sculture in an art gallery. Nice work.

[tech9_79]

Those look very nice. Like a sculture in an art gallery. Nice work.

wow thanks guys.. i just got my parts for the center today! yeah..it was almost as easy to 5 speakers this way as it is to build 2. i love them... next inline 12in RS sub.

[killersoundz]

Hi, just to comment about you complaining about your table saw. I also own a Jet contractor saw and can give you some helpful tips.

First of all you need to check the blade alignment to the miter slot. I use a 1/32 increment steel ruler. Put the blade all the way up, and measure from the front of the blade to the miter slot, and then the back of the blade to the miter slot. Measure from the blade itself and not a tooth. Both measurements should be identical, if not, try turning the blade a bit or use another blade to eliminate possibility of it being warped. Take your time and be really accurate. If you conclude it's not on, you need to loosen the trunnion bolts under the saw top and nudge the assembly into place so it's spot on with the miter slot. It's very common for this to go out over time, especially when the saw gets moved.

After you get the blade aligned with the miter slot, you need to align your fence to the miter slot. I try to make my fence just a hair 1/64 to 1/32 kicked out at the back end just to keep it from pinching any work piece up against the blade.

Once you get the blade and fenced aligned properly, the only thing keeping you from making dead accurate cuts is the fence moving during cutting. My particular fence doesn't lock in at the back, it will move during cutting when you apply pressure against it. I put a clamp on the back end of it before every cut.

Success! That wasn't so hard was it? You didn't have to say it sucks :( You'll have this problem with any table saw that isn't dialed in properly no matter how much it costs.

When I moved my saw the last time, the first piece I tried to cut at the new shop quickly told me the saw shifted during transport. I couldn't pull the 50lb motor off of it and that being jarred around during transport, no surprise...

[GTB]

Very nice! Love the sub front and the stands, too.

[tech9_79]

Success! That wasn't so hard was it? You didn't have to say it sucks :( You'll have this problem with any table saw that isn't dialed in properly no matter how much it costs.



naw it sucks...:p yeah i could spend the time to calibrate it..but it has other issues as well.. and i can do things with the edge guide that i cant with a saw of that size. It acts like a panel saw but better!! i could cut a perfect triangle out of the middle if a 4x8 sheet if i wanted to! the only thing i need the table saw for is small pieces. thanks for the advice though.

plus i wouldnt be able to do the "cold rolled method" :cool:

[Soundslike]

naw it sucks...:p yeah i could spend the time to calibrate it..but it has other issues as well.. and i can do things with the edge guide that i cant with a saw of that size. It acts like a panel saw but better!! i could cut a perfect triangle out of the middle if a 4x8 sheet if i wanted to! the only thing i need the table saw for is small pieces. thanks for the advice though.

plus i wouldnt be able to do the "cold rolled method" :cool:

I'm not too sure everyone was able to discern what you mean by your "cold rolled" method. I'll have to admit that I didn't until I just reread your post. It looks like you glued up four long lengths of MDF into a square tubular shape, then cut off the length you needed for the individual enclosures. Very clever!

[tech9_79]

yep thats basically what i did, cut top bottom and sides@48in then glued them up as one long tube. In theory i could do 8ft lengths like this and whenever i needed a cab i could just zip one off at any volume i needed.

oh one thing i forgot to add, the grills are held on by rear mounted magnets inside the cab! i can take the grills off and no grill mounts!

Cold rolled steal pipes, (http://www.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=s&tbs=isch:1&&sa=X&ei=coxUTZSlGMP-8AaFn5WnBw&ved=0CDMQvwUoAQ&q=cold+rolled+rectangular+tubes&spell=1&biw=1920&bih=927)

[kornphlake]

naw it sucks...:p yeah i could spend the time to calibrate it..but it has other issues as well.. and i can do things with the edge guide that i cant with a saw of that size. It acts like a panel saw but better!! i could cut a perfect triangle out of the middle if a 4x8 sheet if i wanted to! the only thing i need the table saw for is small pieces. thanks for the advice though.

plus i wouldnt be able to do the "cold rolled method" :cool:

I won't argue that your method works, but really this would be best done on a table saw, if it was dialed in all you'd need to do is set the fence at the desired length from the blade, cut the box, roll it over, cut again, roll it over cut again, roll it a final time and cut. The fence never moves only the work does, it makes the setup between cuts nil, and the setup between boxes is also nil, two perfectly identical boxes with minimal fuss.

I wish I had a proper table saw, I've got a Shop Smith which is really a pain to use if you're cutting pieces larger than about 6" square. I do use my circular saw where I can if setting up my Shop Smith will take longer than it would to setup an accurate fence, still if I had a good table saw I'd use it as often as I could. Wanna sell me that piece of junk Jet saw cheap?

[tech9_79]

i dont know about you man, but i cant rip a 4x8 sheet on a table saw by myself(6'3 200lbs).. with this i can. Its easier to move the saw then it is to move the wood, and if you dont hold that panel straight..well we know what happens. If i had a $1k cabinet saw it might be different, but the jet is not.

next time im going to build a mount for the edge guide with a fence, so it will act like a panel saw/radial arm saw hybrid..! :cool:

this is not my first rodeo with mdf.

Sometimes the wheel sucks, time to invent something new. ;)

[thekorvers]

i dont know about you man, but i cant rip a 4x8 sheet on a table saw by myself(6'3 200lbs).. with this i can. Its easier to move the saw then it is to move the wood, and if you dont hold that panel straight..well we know what happens. If i had a $1k cabinet saw it might be different, but the jet is not.

next time im going to build a mount for the edge guide with a fence, so it will act like a panel saw/radial arm saw hybrid..! :cool:

this is not my first rodeo with mdf.

Sometimes the wheel sucks, time to invent something new. ;)

Even with one or more people helping and using roller supports in and out, I could never get a square and smooth cut on a 4x8 sheet. The sheet was just too heavy and unwieldy. I finally changed my technique. I now use my circular saw with a straight edge and a sliding saw plate I purchased from Rockler. They are available in different sizes up to 99". I then cut the smaller pieces on my table saw.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=25134

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=25135&filter=33408&pn=33408

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=25136&filter=38428&pn=38428

[joeybutts]

Those speakers/stands look DYNAMITE. And the sub even better. Love to see them in a bit more light....

As for the table saw thing....I love my JET, only issue I had was the motor binding up, but they sent me a whole new saw in a week..... I used to do 4x8 sheets by myself but got sick of it, and now get them pre cut before I leave the store......

[Soundslike]

I won't argue that your method works, but really this would be best done on a table saw, if it was dialed in all you'd need to do is set the fence at the desired length from the blade, cut the box, roll it over, cut again, roll it over cut again, roll it a final time and cut. The fence never moves only the work does, it makes the setup between cuts nil, and the setup between boxes is also nil, two perfectly identical boxes with minimal fuss.

I wish I had a proper table saw, I've got a Shop Smith which is really a pain to use if you're cutting pieces larger than about 6" square. I do use my circular saw where I can if setting up my Shop Smith will take longer than it would to setup an accurate fence, still if I had a good table saw I'd use it as often as I could. Wanna sell me that piece of junk Jet saw cheap?

I've got an old Shop Smith myself. I bought it for $125, way, way, way back when. I think the saw was made in 1955, and I bought it somewhere around 1967 (even though I'm 40 years old):rolleyes:. The setup time is the real deal breaker, but there are some good things about a Shop Smith, such as horizontal drilling, lathe, and large disc sander, but that isn't the topic here I guess.

Regarding the method used by the OP (Tech 9_79), I'd say it obviously works well for him. I have a several choices, such as a table saw, a radial arm saw, and several circular saws. If I were using the cold rolled method discussed here, I'd guess greater accuracy can be obtained with the guide he uses. That thing is a bit more elaborate than the usual circular saw guide -- I notice that and old four foot level has been drafted into service as an outer guide. That, an the inner guide, captures the saw on both sides which would further improve accuracy.

Probably the only thing I have to offer that hasn't been contributed already in this thread is to suggest that a circular saw and guide be first used to cut a full sheet into manageable pieces which would then be cut to final dimensions on a table saw. But again, if I were using the cold rolled method, I'd do it exactly as suggested by Tech 9. By the way, if Tech 9 is a reference to what I think it is, you're probably well equipped for the big one...:eek:

[tech9_79]

the one thing that sealed the deal for me with that edge guide was 4.

1. first i cut the baseboard from ply. this cut doesnt really matter if its perfect.
2. then i bolted on the level, again this doesnt even matter if its straight.
3. i placed my saw on the guide at either end and screwed down the outer board and ends.

4. put the saw back on the guide, dropped the blade and cut the length of the board, this cut this line will always be my flush cut.

I just measure (combination square) and mark (with a very sharp pencil) and tap tap until i see (what i call the corona)of the pencil mark and clamp.

Now what really impressed me about this last project was the laminating with masonite! wow what a difference!:eek: i was like i cant believe i didnt use this from the start!
If your building boxes with mdf and your going to paint them i highly recommend laminating them with masonite! :D

curt and wayne if your out there, i love these things! thank you.

[gowa]

Very cool!

[joeybutts]

The more I look at your speakers, the more I like the look of floating grills...just to have as an option as I am more of an exposed speaker guy.....

[tech9_79]

yeah i like seeing the speakers too..but it just didnt fit with these..

but yeah the rear mounted counter sunk magnets worked great. I think next time im going to get little bigger ones..i counter sunk them to the masonite and it almost didnt have enough holding power.. but i also used cheap magnets on the grills themselves (the heavy gray ones)

i used these,
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=320-012
shoulda used these,
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=320-016

or at least a combo, but man @ a 1.5 each it adds up..

[joeybutts]

but yeah the rear mounted counter sunk magnets worked great. I think next time im going to get little bigger ones..i counter sunk them to the masonite and it almost didnt have enough holding power.. but i also used cheap magnets on the grills themselves (the heavy gray ones)

i used these,
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=320-012
shoulda used these,
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=320-016

or at least a combo, but man @ a 1.5 each it adds up..

Wow, that does get pricey! $12 for one grill using 4 positions? Makes me think how much the grills mean to me....And I would definitely want to use magnets over tabs....

[Dave Hartwick]

I won't argue that your method works, but really this would be best done on a table saw, if it was dialed in all you'd need to do is set the fence at the desired length from the blade, cut the box, roll it over, cut again, roll it over cut again, roll it a final time and cut. The fence never moves only the work does, it makes the setup between cuts nil, and the setup between boxes is also nil, two perfectly identical boxes with minimal fuss.

I wish I had a proper table saw, I've got a Shop Smith which is really a pain to use if you're cutting pieces larger than about 6" square. I do use my circular saw where I can if setting up my Shop Smith will take longer than it would to setup an accurate fence, still if I had a good table saw I'd use it as often as I could. Wanna sell me that piece of junk Jet saw cheap?

I fear cutting a large cold-rolled speaker tube on a table saw is a bad idea. Guiding such a structure the through table saw could result in major kick back or binding. Of course his 300 buck Jet probably has a wimpy motor and may just stop. But I've got 3 hp Shopfox Cabinet saw and any feeding error and resulting kickback would send the pieces through the brick wall.

All of this assumes your using the fence as guide. There are ways to do it with miter gauges, but his method looks safe, easy, clean and accurate.

Open to criticism/comments on this topic.
Dave

[duanebro]

I found out the hard way that you should move the smaller item when cutting - the wood or the saw. if the piece of wood is bigger than the table saw - use a little (circular) saw with a fence. if the piece is little - use the big(table) saw. This seems backwards until you start cutting.

Duane

[Leroy R]

First off, your speakers are amazing and I like your cold rolled concept. I may take advantage of that the next time I am making several boxes that are the same size. I plan to build a couple circular saw cutting jigs similar to yours, since I don't have access to my shopsmith and other tools where I am living now and have limited space. Nice cheap alternative to a table saw.

Why didn't you use metal plates in your grills for the rear mounted magnets to grab onto instead of using sets of magnets?

When I built my IB sub, I bored holes around the perimeter of the cabinet for a possible future grill. I set them to be just slightly below the surface and epoxied them in, then put edge banding over them to hide them. Those magnets were massively strong even through the edge banding. It will be an effort to pull even metal plates free of them if/when I ever build a grill for it.

Given that you painted yours, I would have epoxied them just below the surface of the masonite, filled and sanded the surface smooth so it wouldn't show through the paint and used metal plates at the magnet locations in the grill. The closer you can get them to the surface and still be able to hide them the stronger the magnetic field will be. I suppose if you had a good depth guage and a flat bottom drill bit, you could still do rear mount by boring until you are 1/16 or less from breaking though the masonite then epoxy them in place from the back side. You wouldn't have to fill and resurface the masonite then.

I cut a 4 x 8 sheet of 3/4 oak plywood and a 4 x 8 sheet of 3/4 mdf up on my shopsmith to build the IB sub and those cuts were amazingly straight. I was shocked. When I built the Tritrix speakers, I used a table top craftsman with metal legs and those cuts were not nearly as acurate as the cuts I made with the shopsmith. This was with an old shopsmith. I have the model 520 table upgrade for it now, but haven't installed it yet. The shopsmith is a little more complicated, since you are raising/lowering and tilting the table instead of the blade, but properly setup with a good blade, will give amazing cuts.

Don't get me wrong, if I could afford and had the space for a nice full size powermatic or jet table saw, I'd have one. A panel saw would be nice too, but not sure how well you can get those calibrated. I know the cuts they make on their panel saws aren't that accurate at Home Depot, but not sure if that is a panel saw weakness or just that they haven't done the calibration on their saws.

[tech9_79]

im days away from finishing my new RSS315HF sub.. holy cow this thing is heavy... and perfect timing..

look at this waterfall for Tron,.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=20264148&postcount=5511