Using laptop as a source, school me pls.

[brookbh]

Alrite, so it's finally time for a new laptop as mine from college is a big turd and on it's deathbed. Now I am looking at the smaller Mac book pro's and one of the main uses will be for audio. I am hoping some of you more technically advanced guys could point me in the right direction as to starting a library of music via pc. I am thinking I will need some form of sound card, external hard drive, and a nice dac. Also I have heard mentioned possibly a different os than what comes with the macs. As of now, I have some old Klipsch kg 4.2's that I have sanded down and put an oil finish on and a little semi gloss (yea I know you don't have to tell me). I figure these speakers will tie me over until I can purchase a dac, amps, etc..

Does anyone have suggestions for sound cards, dac's, or other recommendations ?

Also I am on an iPod traveling so please disregard any typos, lol.

[jettore]

For the audio output from the Macbook, you have two options for best quality.

1) An USB DAC - there are many options out there at different price points. Then you can get an integrated amp.
2) Optical out - MacBooks have built in optical outs that are built into the headphone jack. To use the optical port you need this adapter. Then a receiver or integrated amp with a built in DAC will work.
http://www.amazon.com/Toslink-To-Optical-Mini-Adapter/dp/B0002MQGRM

You didn't mention a budget, but a reasonably priced solution is option 2 matched up with a HK 3490 receiver.

[brookbh]

Anyone have any experience with the audio GD dac's?

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=nnaa20nvc56udtibo7p509u3oj4pr7 nq&topic=89165.0

Would a USB sound card just enable you to get inputs into the laptop? I am guessing they have other features as well.

[jcpahman77]

Macbook Pro's are very flexible right out of the box. Optical audio out and in as well as 1/8th inch in and out (same jacks). I would encourage you to run the optical signal from the mac to a suitable receiver and let it do the decoding. I'm running my Macbook to my AVR and I love the sound quality from the optical out.

[brookbh]

Hmm. I don't really want an avr I guess. My intentions for the future would be do go to a 2/3 way using mini dsp or behringer and multiple class d amplifiers. Do you guys use iTunes , windows media player, or other? And what type of music files? I was under the assumption using iTunes and apple lossless would be good enough.

[jcpahman77]

iTunes has great sound. I also use VLC for formats it won't play, i.e. .wma files. Using an external DAC and multiple amps could work well too, I just don't have any experience with that type of setup.

[tajanes]

I use a MacBook for digital storage, stream Napster, Pandora etc and utilize its TOSLINK out (its the same as the analogue out connection, just use a mini optical cable) with the benefit of separating the source from the dac/preamp, which is then just connected to my amp. I use a Grace m902 as my dac ( 24-bit / 192khz ) /preamp which has some very cool and usable preamp features. It can accept a USB, balanced and unbalanced inputs in addition to the TOSLINK, AES3 and S/PDIF, and has two headphone connections with X-feed as well. It’s an impressively built piece. They have recently upgraded the model as well, to a m903. http://www.gracedesign.com/products/m903/m903.htm
You will want to order its remote as well! I ordered both though http://www.sweetwater.com/

[brookbh]

$1800 for the grace, ouch. Was looking more for budget dac's under $400. I guess I should have mentioned a budget.

[Face]

http://www.highresolutiontechnologies.com/products/

Also consider the Cambridge Audio DacMagic and Musical Fidelity V-DAC.

[Skywave-Rider]

I use iTunes and an external 1 TB drive. (USB or firewire is fine.) Rip your CDs to either AIFF or Apple Lossless, both preserve metadata and quality. Then for your IPOD or IPhone you can tell iTunes to sync with a lower quality, if you don't have the space on the mobile unit.

Set your prefs in iTunes to relocate and organize your library onto the external.

I use a Tascam US-144, USB2 interface; it sounds good. Many options out there.

[brookbh]

This may be a dumb question, but with a dac I would not a sound card correct? I would only need a USB sound card if I wanted to hook up to a preamp/ integrated amp?

[Mayhem13]

I imagine you're on a wireless network, so consider an Airport express and stream your iTunes collection to it....no wires needed. It's digital output is bit perfect from the stored content. Best $99 you'll ever spend to free up the wires allowing you to crash on the couch/floor or wherever while working/playing on your mac, streaming music in the background.

The HK3490 is a great option with an excellent amp section and internal DAC. If the data in has a low noise floor and bit perfect it's all the same. Don't buy into the hype here with overly expensive DACs. Money here is better spent of speakers and time speant with placement and some simple room treatments. These few things will give you FAR better results for less $$ than an advanced DAC. The end result is all analogue as in what goes into your ears. With data, 1's are 1's and zero's are still zero's......they just need to be there in the right sequence and the right speed. Most DACs all do this pretty well.

[NEO Dan]

I'm with Mayhem as I use an iPod touch and MacBook Pro with the AirPort Express, and awesome combination IMO. I use it mostly with an AVR but I also have a quality integrated amp and standalone DAC for critical listening. Also keep in mind the new MacBook Pro supports audio over the mini displayport/HDMI interface. It won't be long till the new Apple TV is fully hacked into a mulitmedia AV web browsing wifi access point too, fun fun fun!!! :)

[Skywave-Rider]

This may be a dumb question, but with a dac I would not a sound card correct? I would only need a USB sound card if I wanted to hook up to a preamp/ integrated amp?

You don't really need to buy anything. You've got an interface built into your Mac, so....

I like the external interface I use because it sounds better and gives me more i/o. But technically, you don't need to buy a thing. If you have enough drive space internally, you are done.

As for the last question, both your Mac's built-in interface and the USB box I mentioned, and all the other basic units available, operate at consumer line-level output, so your outputs can interface with whatever amp you currently have. You don't need a pro interface with balanced +4 outputs, though nothing's wrong with that.

Hope that helps.

[Mayhem13]

I like the external interface I use because it sounds better

What makes the external USB driven digital interface sound better than the digital out of your PC?

[Pete Schumacher ®]

What makes the external USB driven digital interface sound better than the digital out of your PC?

Nothing.

In fact, the analog out from the PC, in many cases, is better than most CD players, as they have 24-bit chips, better SNRs, and higher data rates. Not all MOBOs are created equal, but ASUS makes some excellent performers, with even better add on sound cards.

But, you can keep it all HDMI too.

[pres589]

For media storage I'm using this NAS;

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822108065&cm_re=synology-_-22-108-065-_-Product

With a pair of 2TB drives in a redundant array I have good space in a box I don't really think about and a whole lot of space for ~$400 invested. A little more involved to set up vs. a directly tethered Firewire or USB drive but not difficult to set up the first time, plus if you have another computer or situation where you might want to connect to it, it's just there on the network, you don't need to start another computer to get to the files.

If you want some sort of basic audio interface that gives you normal RCA type connectors for output, I've been happy with my Behringer UCA202. Pretty low cost and works out of the box with OSX or Windows.

[Face]

Nothing.

In fact, the analog out from the PC, in many cases, is better than most CD players, as they have 24-bit chips, better SNRs, and higher data rates. Not all MOBOs are created equal, but ASUS makes some excellent performers, with even better add on sound cards.

But, you can keep it all HDMI too.
Most if not all ASUS Xonar cards are not Mac or Win 7 friendly and the OP is looking for a DAC for his Macintosh.

I wouldn't believe the specs of most on board sound chips, due to fans and other noisy components in your average PC case, the noise floor in a $100 DVD player is usually better.

[brookbh]

I think the hk receiver would bE a good choice for all around use. I just am afraid that if I purchase one I will end buying a separate dac later... You all know how that works :D. The attractive part of having an avr would be for movies/gaming as well as music. What would be a fair price for the hk 3490 and what's the common opinion on refurbs?

[Pete Schumacher ®]

Most if not all ASUS Xonar cards are not Mac or Win 7 friendly and the OP is looking for a DAC for his Macintosh.

I wouldn't believe the specs of most on board sound chips, due to fans and other noisy components in your average PC case, the noise floor in a $100 DVD player is usually better.

Having put the Xonar and Asus MOBO side by side, under Win7 64-bit Ultimate, there's no audible difference in the noise floor. Both require an ear, literally on top of the tweeter, to hear anything resembling hiss, and that's most likely coming from the amp.

Like I said, not all motherboards are created equal, but the last pair I've used both have noise floors lower than most amplifiers, and the add on sound card even better.

As to the inadequacies of the Apple platform, I will leave that for others to address. However, the question I answered referred to a PC, and as we all know, a MAC is not a PC.

[carlspeak]

I'm looking for a PC laptop (Windows 7 64 bit) with a good sound card for $500-$600 price range to use for testing speakers. HolmImpulse, REW, ATB-PC pro, etc.....

Any ideas? Any successes?

[Mayhem13]

I just am afraid that if I purchase one I will end buying a separate dac later...

Why?

3490.....$279.00 brand new at Newegg.com

[brookbh]

I just saw a refurb on ebay go for 215. I am thinking I can keep the avr and klipch for movies/gaming and then just have a separate 2 channel system that will be active. That's good to know about new egg, that seems like a reasonable price.

[Skywave-Rider]

What makes the external USB driven digital interface sound better than the digital out of your PC?

I did not say anything about the digital out.
I referred to the analog out.

[LouC]

Why Windows 7/64? Most of the audio software isn't really debugged for that platform.

I'm using a 7 year old Thinkpad R50 with XP; an external Edirol USB soundcard and never found it lacking for this work. Refurbed Thinkpads can be had for $200-$300 and are built like tanks.

[Pete Schumacher ®]

Why Windows 7/64? Most of the audio software isn't really debugged for that platform.

I'm using a 7 year old Thinkpad R50 with XP; an external Edirol USB soundcard and never found it lacking for this work. Refurbed Thinkpads can be had for $200-$300 and are built like tanks.

I haven't run into any problems with audio in Win7/64. Seems to be a well supported platform with lots of available drivers. I'm running FLAC with Foobar and Media Player, no issues at all. And seeing that OS's are moving to the 64-bit realm, why not get a platform that can support the eventual upgrade. And some of the new laptops are set up with audio use in mind, with nice headphone amps and 24-bit sound chips.

It is hard to ignore the $200 option, but getting away from XP is something worth considering.

[Face]

No problems with 7x64 either. In fact, I found it easier to set up everything compared to my XP machines.

Other than security related items, Microsoft is done supporting retail XP. Time to move on.

[E Biddy]

I wouldn't drop a ton of money on a soundcard if you are looking to go digital to analog. That technology is much cheaper and simpler than going from analog to digital.

Don't bother looking at what the recording studios are using. One of the thing that they have to deal with is if they are taking tracks out of their computer (which a lot are doing becasue the don't like the way mixing in the box sounds) and going to an analog mixer they have to deal with the noise of many (50+ ?)converters and you are only dealing whith 2 (or 6 if 5.1).

All of the big costs on converters are going analog to digital.

[LouC]

I haven't run into any problems with audio in Win7/64. Seems to be a well supported platform with lots of available drivers. I'm running FLAC with Foobar and Media Player, no issues at all. And seeing that OS's are moving to the 64-bit realm, why not get a platform that can support the eventual upgrade. And some of the new laptops are set up with audio use in mind, with nice headphone amps and 24-bit sound chips. It is hard to ignore the $200 option, but getting away from XP is something worth considering.

He asked about measuring & modeling with Arta et. al. I'm not sure how much of that stuff ports over in 7. I wouldn't argue if I were setting up a media server or mastering studio. Don't think I'd want to drag a nice new fragile plastic laptop out to the shop either.


No problems with 7x64 either. In fact, I found it easier to set up everything compared to my XP machines.
Other than security related items, Microsoft is done supporting retail XP. Time to move on.

If you are a user of retail software you're probably right. 7 is a definite improvement in quality and "gotta have 30 things going on at once" capability. The installed base of XP is huge, and will probably be viable and supported for longer than the average $600 laptop.

I now have three ThinkPads.

- The R50,
- a refurbed T43 for back up, use in the guest house, code testing, for classroom presentations and as a client loaner, (~$200 now) and
- a refurbed 15" T61 for real laptop use ($330 last week) .

The T43 got dropped twice, had a cup of coffee dumped on it, and it still runs -- just not off the battery :eek: ;)

[Skywave-Rider]

The OP is talking about a MAC.

I recently got a PC laptop for PCD, runs W7 Pro, 64 bit I believe. Now have to find time to learn how to use it!

I really dislike Windows, however. I'm a MAC guy at work and at home.

Only recently ripped my entire library into iTunes (on a MAC) and, now that I understand iTunes a bit better, I really like it.

[kornphlake]

Why Windows 7/64? Most of the audio software isn't really debugged for that platform.

I'm using a 7 year old Thinkpad R50 with XP; an external Edirol USB soundcard and never found it lacking for this work. Refurbed Thinkpads can be had for $200-$300 and are built like tanks.

I wouldn't recommend a 7 year old computer for most people with average expectations. My wife loves to play silly games on facebook, they won't run, or are impossibly slow, on a 7 year old computer. I like streaming movies on Hulu or Netflix, a 7 year old computer won't have the graphics capability to decode HD video and will struggle with compressed SD video. A couple years ago people would typically say any computer with a pentium II or faster processor is fine for web browsing and email, but in the last couple years the definition of web browsing has changed, flash is using more processing power and memory for "basic" internet tasks. The average person probably will find a 7 year old computer lacking for what they want to do, assuming they want to use the computer for more than just measuring and designing speakers.

I can't see anybody buying an old computer just to run a couple programs, it would make more sense to buy a newer computer for just a few dollars more and be able to run almost any program. I've found the compatiblity mode in windows 7 to be pretty good, every program I've tried to install has run without any problems. Other than an obsolete printer and an obsolete webcam not having 64 bit drivers, I've had no problems with 64 bit, but I could have easily chosen a 32 bit operating system if I had a mission critical piece of hardware I knew wouldn't work on a 64 bit system.

[LouC]

I was making a point about what was needed for running measuring software. Not much. The R50 is enough. Would I want it as my only computer, no.
(BTW my $329 T61 was manufactured in Nov 2007. Dual Core, 2Gb Ram, 100 Gig HD, b/g/n wireless and Bluetooth. It's no slouch -- nor is it pretty, trendy, or particularly lightweight)

If somebody wants ONE box to do everything by all means buy the latest and greatest, then run it in "ancient" mode for those apps. Much the same economics as buying a "new" car vs one that's 2-3 years old.

Application development has always run 2-3 years behind the latest hardware and operating systems. About the time today's latest & greatest come off lease, I'll be in the market to buy one. The apps I care about may have caught up by then.

I know I'm in the minority.:p I always have been. :rolleyes: