Kustom Active PA mod... Proposal

[RobSwindol]

As you guys may or may not have noticed, Kustom has some very cheap, active and passive PA speakers on the market. I actually bought one of their 10" passive stage monitors for about $50. For the price, it's fine, but of course you can't really expect great sound from such an inexpensive speaker. The bass is almost non-existent, and what little mid-range it has is muddy.

Having said this, there is one thing that did catch my eye. THE CABINETS. I'm not saying that they are beautifully crafted or anything, but for only $50, you have the MDF, a nice handle, corners, rubber feet, and vinyl covering. Separately, that would cost you more than $50. So I started wondering, what if I was to install a new woofer? The horn isn't too bad, but it over-powers the woofer. So would a different 10" woofer and perhaps a new (or modified) crossover benefit this monitor?

I also noticed that they have active speakers at a lot price as well. Their 12" active (100 watt) speakers are only $99. The reviews I have read said they also have very muddy mid-range. Do you guys think these speakers could be modified to make some much better speakers. And when I say "much better" I'm just referring to something you would use at a small coffee house type of setting.

If anyone out there thinks they would like to take a stab at modifying one, I would be willing to buy the speaker in exchange for some expertise. I've learned a lot on this site and from the book "Speaker Building 201", but I would like someone far better than me to take a peek.

Here is the 10" active speaker. The specs say "crossover frequency: n/a". Do you think they are actually trying to run this thing with no crossover? This could actually explain the lack of bass and crappy mids.
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Kustom-KPC10P-10-Powered-PA-Speaker?sku=485590

As a side note:
I currently have an application that I think might be great for a speaker of this size and wattage. A friend of mine has a business where he gives cooking classes much like on a cooking show, where he will teach a small crowd (about 30 people) how to cook a meal and after each course the guests will be eating the food. While they are eating, I am playing guitar and singing.

This is a very small setting and is barely enough room for me and my guitar, much less my full PA system with 15" Yamahas. I am currently using a small acoustic combo amp that has an XLR input for a microphone. The problem is that my vocals don't sound very good.

I do have a small 10 channel, Allen & Heath mixer that I could use with a powered speaker. This is why I've decided to come to you guys.

[Sydney]

. The specs say "crossover frequency: n/a". Do you think they are actually trying to run this thing with no crossover? This could actually explain the lack of bass and crappy mids.
In this case n/a means not applicable as it uses a single piezo that doesn't have any crossover.
The lack of bass and crappy mids is a reflection of what can be expected from something that sells for $79.99

[billfitzmaurice]

Your proposal is akin to buying a Kia Rio and spending twice what it cost on options. It will still be a Kia Rio. If you want a decent speaker just buy a decent speaker.

[killersoundz]

What Bill said. It's like buying a old rusted out car with a cracked frame and blown engine and putting really shiny and expensive wheels on it. I would look elsewhere.

[Paul O]

I agree with the other guys this generally isn't money well spent. I have done exactly this for a friend that bought some "white van" PA speakers, and while the end result was actually pretty decent.. after replacing the comp driver and woofer and rebuilding the crossover, for the $$ spent on that and the initial purchase he could have had some new name brand speakers.

[RobSwindol]

I would agree with what you guys are saying for the most part. But the problem is that I can't find any active, 10", name-brand PA speakers for less than about $600. just sift through Musiciansfriend.com and you will see that there is a huge gap here. Of course, PEX does have Pyle Pro 10" active speaker for $169, but considering how crappy Pyle is and that they are in plastic enclosures, I have a feeling those will sound just as bad, if not worse than the Kustoms at twice the price.

I can buy the Kustom for $80 or a name brand speaker for much, much more. I'm looking for something in the $250-$300 price range and I simply am not finding any 10" active speakers in this range worth buying. That's why I was considering making my own, then I though of the Kustom 10" monitor that I have and it gave me the Idea.

So you guys are saying that I couldn't replace the components with perhaps a driver like this...
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-332

And maybe a horn driver like this...
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-204

Add a crossover such as this...
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=260-142

Like I said, I don't mind spending $300. But I would like something that will hopefully sound better than a Pyle Pro or Behringer. But if you guys don't think it's possible, then so be it.

[Sydney]

Honestly: I'm surprised that Kustom ( or any company for that matter ) can deliver this at that MSRP.
If you have been involved in a manufacturing environment it becomes apparent that the actual cost of materials is a small fraction of the MSRP, from which the vendors like MF have to take a cut.
Quality parts and additional labor and QC adds to fabrication cost.
Cheap is cheap.
A good OEM driver costs more than that entire cab, a top quality driver ( accepted in any Pro Sound contract ) cost much more.
A Diyer can trade/invest sweat-equity but part quality counts.

[billfitzmaurice]

I'm looking for something in the $250-$300 price range and I simply am not finding any 10" active speakers in this range worth buying. .Buy used.

But the problem is that I can't find any active, 10", name-brand PA speakers for less than about $600.
Uninformed consumers who buy in the under $500 price range buy purely based on watts and driver size, the more/larger the better. Manufacturer's give them what they want. That means large woofers and inflated power ratings.

[RobSwindol]

Honestly: I'm surprised that Kustom ( or any company for that matter ) can deliver this at that MSRP.
If you have been involved in a manufacturing environment it becomes apparent that the actual cost of materials is a small fraction of the MSRP, from which the vendors like MF have to take a cut.
Quality parts and additional labor and QC adds to fabrication cost.
Cheap is cheap.
A good OEM driver costs more than that entire cab, a top quality driver ( accepted in any Pro Sound contract ) cost much more.
A Diyer can trade/invest sweat-equity but part quality counts.

I can't agree more Sydney. Like I was saying, the enclosure alone seems to be worth the cost, which is why I wouldn't mind replacing the components inside to make it a worthwhile speaker.

[RobSwindol]

Buy used.

Uninformed consumers who buy in the under $500 price range buy purely based on watts and driver size, the more/larger the better. Manufacturer's give them what they want. That means large woofers and inflated power ratings.

So are you saying that everyone who buys in the under $500 price range is an uninformed buyer? Because I really don't consider myself this. I consider myself a buyer who realizes that whatever money I put into this speaker will never come back to me, so I am trying to be frugal while simultaniously trying to achieve, not outstanding, but good sound.

The reason I am looking for a 10" speaker is because I think it's the largest I can get away with in the small space I have to permanently mount a speaker. I'm sure I would find a cabinet with an 8" speaker that would fit, but I would really prefer the bass that most 10" speakers posess.

As for used, I live in a back-woods area that is extremely limited. I could always check out ebay, but then again, I hate risking getting a speaker that someone has been pushing to its limit. Who know's what kind of damage has been done? There are some things that I am perfectly comfortable buying sight unseen over the internet. PA speakers aren't one of them.

But if you guys don't think it's possibe, then I guess I'll give it a go myself. I just figured someone out there might like to have themselves a free project that they got to keep in the end. Thanks anyway.

[wg_ski]

I can't agree more Sydney. Like I was saying, the enclosure alone seems to be worth the cost, which is why I wouldn't mind replacing the components inside to make it a worthwhile speaker.

I think what they're saying is that it wouldn't be a worthwhile speaker even if you did gut it and replace everything. It may or may not be when it's done, but nevertheless it will add up. Cab: $50. Worthwhile 10" driver: $90. Compression driver: $35. Horn: $10. Crossover: $20 parts + $5 aspirin for the headaches of getting Speaker Workshop up for measurements. Plate Amp: $180. And then it won't be an EAW, or Community, or even QSC - and you're over budget before you start adding in everything you didn't plan for.

[billfitzmaurice]

So are you saying that everyone who buys in the under $500 price range is an uninformed buyer?.No, but they account for the majority, and what they want to buy is what's going to be offered.

Like I was saying, the enclosure alone seems to be worth the cost, Not if it turns out to be particle board poorly constructed. Truisms like 'You get what you pay for' and 'If it seems too good to be true, it is' didn't get to be truisms for nothing.

[killersoundz]

The enclosures are not remotely usable for any serious speaker cabinet. I personally don't have much of an issue with particle board itself, I think it's a usable material for a speaker cab as long as you aren't gigging it and abusing it, BUT the problem is HOW it's constructed. Don't be surprised when you take out a speaker and look inside the cabinet and see it being held together with a little more than chewing gum. It's brad nailed **** joints, if they even used any glue or not is a toss up. It's not a serious enclosure and never will be no matter what components you put into it.

Now if you want me to build you some budget particle board PA boxes that are actually put together well that's another story. You really do need to baby any particle board box over 60lbs, otherwise the material busts apart easily if you drop it on the ground. It can be fragile stuff.

[jont]

As you guys may or may not have noticed, Kustom has some very cheap, active and passive PA speakers on the market. I actually bought one of their 10" passive stage monitors for about $50. For the price, it's fine, but of course you can't really expect great sound from such an inexpensive speaker. The bass is almost non-existent, and what little mid-range it has is muddy.

Having said this, there is one thing that did catch my eye. THE CABINETS. I'm not saying that they are beautifully crafted or anything, but for only $50, you have the MDF, a nice handle, corners, rubber feet, and vinyl covering. Separately, that would cost you more than $50. So I started wondering, what if I was to install a new woofer? The horn isn't too bad, but it over-powers the woofer. So would a different 10" woofer and perhaps a new (or modified) crossover benefit this monitor?

I also noticed that they have active speakers at a lot price as well. Their 12" active (100 watt) speakers are only $99. The reviews I have read said they also have very muddy mid-range. Do you guys think these speakers could be modified to make some much better speakers. And when I say "much better" I'm just referring to something you would use at a small coffee house type of setting.

If anyone out there thinks they would like to take a stab at modifying one, I would be willing to buy the speaker in exchange for some expertise. I've learned a lot on this site and from the book "Speaker Building 201", but I would like someone far better than me to take a peek.

Here is the 10" active speaker. The specs say "crossover frequency: n/a". Do you think they are actually trying to run this thing with no crossover? This could actually explain the lack of bass and crappy mids.
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Kustom-KPC10P-10-Powered-PA-Speaker?sku=485590

As a side note:
I currently have an application that I think might be great for a speaker of this size and wattage. A friend of mine has a business where he gives cooking classes much like on a cooking show, where he will teach a small crowd (about 30 people) how to cook a meal and after each course the guests will be eating the food. While they are eating, I am playing guitar and singing.

This is a very small setting and is barely enough room for me and my guitar, much less my full PA system with 15" Yamahas. I am currently using a small acoustic combo amp that has an XLR input for a microphone. The problem is that my vocals don't sound very good.

I do have a small 10 channel, Allen & Heath mixer that I could use with a powered speaker. This is why I've decided to come to you guys.

You could try one of the Peavey PR10 drivers in there, I would not expect much but it is probably a notch above the bottom of the barrel stock Kustom drivers. A while back Kustom "accidentally" put some decent Eminence betas in a low end box, they were reviewed favorably for the price.

[buzzardman]

I just put together the perfect small venue PA system for very little. I had a 10 channel behringer board but needed something small, easy to transport with a very good sound as everything we do is with acoustic instruments and voice, and is plenty loud for what we do. I picked up a pair of behringer truth b 2031 powered studio monitors from a pawn shop for 250 bucks for the pair, covered them with grill cloth and they worked great. Lacking a little in the bottom end, I just purchased the BIC V1020 powered sub from PE, covered the speaker with grill cloth, put rubber feet on the bottom and pointed the speaker outward and WOW. I have a killer, studio quality PA for far less than anything comparible in sound quality. Even buying active studio monitors new, you would have a killer system for less than any mid priced powered speaker pair. Just a thought.......

[RobSwindol]

I just put together the perfect small venue PA system for very little. I had a 10 channel behringer board but needed something small, easy to transport with a very good sound as everything we do is with acoustic instruments and voice, and is plenty loud for what we do. I picked up a pair of behringer truth b 2031 powered studio monitors from a pawn shop for 250 bucks for the pair, covered them with grill cloth and they worked great. Lacking a little in the bottom end, I just purchased the BIC V1020 powered sub from PE, covered the speaker with grill cloth, put rubber feet on the bottom and pointed the speaker outward and WOW. I have a killer, studio quality PA for far less than anything comparible in sound quality. Even buying active studio monitors new, you would have a killer system for less than any mid priced powered speaker pair. Just a thought.......

I would have no problem with a set-up like that if I had the room for it. Part of the problem is that in this venue, I have a corner to sit in and play. As I pointed out earlier, I currently have a 30 watt acoustic guitar amplifier that I use for both my guitar and my vocals. It is plenty loud enough for the room, but because it's on the floor, I hardly have room for it.

This is why I would like a mounted active speaker in that corner over-head. It's not taking up precious floor space mounted on the wall. But because there is a door on each side of the corner, I can't have a large cabinet mounted. I would need something decently small that still had decent bass. That's why I like the idea of a 10" speaker.

Trust me, as long as I've been gigging, I wouldn't have come here if the answer was as easy as buying something that works. I currently haven't found anything that works.

[RobSwindol]

I think what they're saying is that it wouldn't be a worthwhile speaker even if you did gut it and replace everything. It may or may not be when it's done, but nevertheless it will add up. Cab: $50. Worthwhile 10" driver: $90. Compression driver: $35. Horn: $10. Crossover: $20 parts + $5 aspirin for the headaches of getting Speaker Workshop up for measurements. Plate Amp: $180. And then it won't be an EAW, or Community, or even QSC - and you're over budget before you start adding in everything you didn't plan for.

Aparently you guys are under the assumption that I am looking for studio quality. Not true. I was just hoping for something better than Pyle (which can't be hard to do). Also, this is something that will be stationary. I will not be movie it, so a high durability enclosure isn't something I'm looking for.

I'm going to start out by bypassing the horn completely and using this Eminence Beta 10" full-range drive to see what it will do.
http://www.parts-express.com/1/1/12148-eminence-beta-10cx-10-coaxial-driver.html

[killersoundz]

Aparently you guys are under the assumption that I am looking for studio quality. Not true. I was just hoping for something better than Pyle (which can't be hard to do). Also, this is something that will be stationary. I will not be movie it, so a high durability enclosure isn't something I'm looking for.

I'm going to start out by bypassing the horn completely and using this Eminence Beta 10" full-range drive to see what it will do.
http://www.parts-express.com/1/1/12148-eminence-beta-10cx-10-coaxial-driver.html

*Sigh* You know you need a compression driver (horn) to screw into the back of that speaker right? Oh yeah and a proper crossover.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3597/3471210811_94b9fc2549_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3397/3472022558_3da68c9409_o.jpg

Get how it works now?

[billfitzmaurice]

I'm going to start out by bypassing the horn completely and using this Eminence Beta 10" full-range drive to see what it will do.
http://www.parts-express.com/1/1/12148-eminence-beta-10cx-10-coaxial-driver.html
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/7611/1272588796.gif

What we have here is someone who decided what he wanted to do, posted his 'question' only because he expected everyone to say 'what a great idea!', and when told his notion was full of holes has decided to press on irregardless. Beam me up, Scotty.

No, wait, wrong 'Generation'. Beam me up, Chief O'Brien! :cool: