monkey coffins=people like them no one builds them !?

[donc]

people like large speakers like the VMPS towers , for most people i would think it would be safe to say that there is a large speaker that has left a lasting impression and is what sparked their interest in this hobby , so why not more big speaker builds ?
donc

[kmibb]

Wives.

[joeybutts]

people like large speakers like the VMPS towers , for most people i would think it would be safe to say that there is a large speaker that has left a lasting impression and is what sparked their interest in this hobby , so why not more big speaker builds ?
donc

I think for most people building, the WAF comes into play and they don't want them. I made sure my fiance understood that this is a MAJOR part of me and that there was no compromise on this issue. She understood and we moved on. It's too bad more women aren't as understanding. I have a guy at work and he knows I build speakers but he just can't convince his wife to allow anything over miniature cubes.....

I really can't think of any other reason. It's all I build. :cool: Even my little speakers are big.....

[Soundslike]

I'm hardly the one to answer this question, but isn't the reason mostly because they aren't necessary with modern drivers and a subwoofer?

[r-carpenter]

I like BIG speakers :D
Big speakers sound Big!

[donc]

WAF is an honest answer and probably the most common and that's a shame considering ! big speakers do not need subs and not all people like subs ! i thinkit was billfm that said , as simple as it is and i never thought of it and will never foget it , " if you can hear the sub ,it's too loud !" awesome !
donc

[skalos]

My wife won't let me sell my speakers (not that I want to) because they, are perfect for our living room.

Yes my wife is a rare one.

We had her sister visit a while back and when she saw the speakers, she said she would never let her husband put something like that in her house.

Proof that this hobby is environmental not genetic.

Thank goodness for this environment

[wg_ski]

These were there before the wife was. The rest of the big speakers are all PA/SR stuff and never see the inside of a house so they don't technically count as monkey coffins.

[Leroy R]

I am currently building a pair of 4 cubic ft MTM towers and a 2 cubic ft center channel. I like big speakers and don't have a wife, but these were sort of an accident. When I bought the drivers I didn't pay attention to the qts spec. When I ran the numbers after receiving them I learned that they needed to be in large sealed enclusures. Compared to other builds I've seen, I guess they really aren't that large though.
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh251/lhreeves_photos/Towers/IMAG0096.jpg

[johnnyrichards]

Definitely WAF limited. I like monkey coffins, my wife is not overly against them either. Most people I have talked to would like big speakers but continuously run up against the WAF barrier. Big speakers do everything better, except blend into the surroundings.

[arlis_1957@yahoo.com]

i like big too.
http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/arlis/3-way/IMG_4416.jpg
mine are the ones to the inside. raw mdf.
http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/arlis/3-way/IMG_4333.jpg

[Pete Schumacher ®]

Wives.

Wives who've taken their husband's bawls and put them in a jar over the mantle.

The lack of monkey coffins is due to a lack of bawls, pure and simple.

[Pallas]

people like large speakers like the VMPS towers , for most people i would think it would be safe to say that there is a large speaker that has left a lasting impression and is what sparked their interest in this hobby , so why not more big speaker builds ?
donc

Big speakers are a lot harder to build, because the materials cost goes way up. Also, messing up on part of a cabinet means a lot more gets scrapped. You also need to buy more clamps, attempt a consistent finish a larger flat surface, etc.

Another reason is home theater. A high-fidelity multichannel system will have identical speakers for the three front channels. Identical in every way. Most people don't have front projectors with screens that will allow a big floorstanding speaker for the center, and if high fidelity is the goal a center speaker that's even slightly different from the left speaker or the right speaker in size, orientation, etc., is simply not done. So people make smaller speakers.


big speakers do not need subs

Yes they do, if you want smooth bass throughout the room. Note that's subs.

[johnnyrichards]

Wives who've taken their husband's bawls and put them in a jar over the mantle.

The lack of monkey coffins is due to a lack of bawls, pure and simple.

I wouldn't say it's that cut and dried (snicker) Pete. Sometimes compromises occur that both parties in a relationship are happy with. Maybe wifey conceded on the Harley if hubby conceded on the Bose 3-2-1...

[exojam]

i like big too.
http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/arlis/3-way/IMG_4416.jpg
mine are the ones to the inside. raw mdf.
http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/arlis/3-way/IMG_4333.jpg


By the looks of those other speakers in the picture it looks like you are working with Jedi Master Curt.

James

[tomzarbo]

I vowed after my last large subwoofer build that I would never build anything (for myself or anyone else) that I couldn't carry by myself, drivers included.

I used to build everything with double thickness particle board, 1 1/2" thick, and bracing, I've since learned to use less material but still keep the structure strong and resonant free.

I built these when I was but a youth, (mid-20's) they used four 6.5" Vifa drivers, and 4 1" Vifa dome tweeters, along with two 10" Cadence subwoofers driven with a 120 watt plate amp per speaker. A woofer and tweeter were rear facing out-of-phase in their own sub-enclosure on each speaker. My living room was huge at the time, they actually sounded good to me. I can get better sound now from a box 1/4 the size though. I'm 6'4" tall for reference. These were a little taller than me. There was no end to the volume they were capable of, though.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f257/TomZarbo/TwinTowers.jpg

The person that eventually bought them had a furniture moving company come and pick them up, they were just too much to handle with 2 or 3 people. I think the older I get, the less I really feel like bullying around a few hundred pounds of speaker cabinet.

Plus, I consider it a challenge to get full-range sound out of smaller cabinets/drivers; and judging from the amount of medium to mini-tower designs out there, others may agree.

I agree though, big speakers did influence me as a young person. Many of Radio Shack's bigger speakers wowed me big-time. I lusted after their three way with the 10" woofer and 10" passive radiator... it had the coolest grill also. Some of Cerwin Vega's offerings at the time had me at 'hello' as well. Heck, even some Bose sets had me wanting them. I remember a dual 10" woofer/passive with a mid and two tweeters (placed side-by-side) sounding pretty good in Wall-To-Wall Sound and Video back in the day! Made me buy their 8" woofered two-way bookshelf set that compared well with my 12" woofered RS three way. The RS's were prettier though with their genuine oiled walnut veneer! Ah, memories.

TomZ

[Sydney]

... so why not more big speaker builds ?
donc
Practicality is a big part, occupying floor space and a "clearing".
I started out with large corner horn ( klipsch knockoff ) long ago, but they didn't work well in a small room.
Aesthetic integration aside, large boxes or columns work better in bigger than "average" rooms.

[lunchmoney]

I'm not sure how true it is, but there's also the "narrow baffles better for imaging" argument...

[LouC]

I vowed after my last large subwoofer build that I would never build anything (for myself or anyone else) that I couldn't carry by myself, drivers included.

I used to build everything with double thickness particle board, 1 1/2" thick, and bracing, I've since learned to use less material but still keep the structure strong and resonant free...

+1 on that. My sub hasn't been moved in 9 years.

Yeah wives are part of it, so are kids & pets.

The young bucks with good backs and "bigger must be better" tastes are more likely candidates. They're also more likely to have use for a pair of boxes that play loud enough for a large party of crazies.:D

Watts are cheaper now, drivers are better with more variety of capabilities. As most of us get older, we prefer lower volumes.

Look around the board. Cheap rules now. People whine about paying for crossover parts. I don't see anybody designing a decent 10-12 inch 3 way for $100/pair. (But Johnny Richards will try! ;) )

[Jim Holtz]

Big is relative. A speaker can be tall but not take up a lot of floor space. If you go from linearrays to Statements, the Statements seem small. :D

Jim

[fntn]

Wives who've taken their husband's bawls and put them in a jar over the mantle.

The lack of monkey coffins is due to a lack of bawls, pure and simple.

I don't always agree with much of what you post but you are spot on with this one. Theater rooms and media rooms have become more commonplace today in affluent households. But larger speakers that have clear potential advantages for higher performance are still unpopular. Why? Because a sleek appearance or "form" has long since become more important than "function" to a large segment of the population. Since wives tend to have a greater concern for all things associated with aesthetics and interior design - they're the population segment that is most responsible for the trend. And husbands who have no spine are their enablers.
:D

[davepellegrene]

After InDIYana I decided to have a little fun and do some comparing. I had my Rockits in front of the Minis just to try them out. My wife saw them there and said why don't you move the Mini's over and put them beside them. I looked at her surprised and said it's just for today. She smiled and said yeah right. So I took total advantage and moved in. She took a pick and sent it to some of our family members and said. "check out my geek husband". And my brother in law had my back and replied" what's wrong with that looks good". She still hasn't told me to move them. I think two of them are close to monkey coffins

Dave

[Sydney]

today in affluent households Perhaps the definitive word is "affluent".
While I know "dinks" that have built new large houses, who have the room, and the means, their investment in audio/HT was modest.

[johnnyrichards]

(But Johnny Richards will try! ;) )[/I]

I think my current 12" 3-way clocks in over $120, though it is surprisingly decent all things considered :)

[dlsbobby]

After InDIYana I decided to have a little fun and do some comparing. I had my Rockits in front of the Minis just to try them out. My wife saw them there and said why don't you move the Mini's over and put them beside them. I looked at her surprised and said it's just for today. She smiled and said yeah right. So I took total advantage and moved in. She took a pick and sent it to some of our family members and said. "check out my geek husband". And my brother in law had my back and replied" what's wrong with that looks good". She still hasn't told me to move them. I think two of them are close to monkey coffins

Dave

.... "check out my geek husband". (Fantastic) That's the same phrase my wife uses. However, when we clean the house it's the big speakers she fires up, not the two ways that are on the stands. I told her that I was going to take the big speakers down and make two other sets and she told me she liked them. So I took that as I could build two other sets and still keep the three ways. :) Robert.

[PWR RYD]

Does it have to be one large enclosure? Or can I consider my on the drawing board project with large 12" bass bins topped by smaller MT or possibly MTM enclosures a monkey coffin? Kind of like the Tarkus but bigger.

[Hearing Specialist]

For me its partly the whole "THX" look but what's funny is that when crossed over at 80hz and set to "Small" am I really using all my monkeys? I think now I want to be able to take what i've experienced with the bigger enclosure and sound and make it happen in a smaller build. For me that's the fun of it...getting the big sound in a smaller enclosure kind of like this:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=302-751

Wife factor is hard to manage and someday someone will find a solution and be very wealthy from it.

[donradick]

I've always had "size envy" about speakers since I could never afford anything larger than an 8 inch 2-way. Years ago I heard the refrigerator-sized Infinities in 1972 (OMG!) , and a bud bought some Marantz speakers that were about 3 1/2 feet high and 3 feet wide (IIRC). We sat about 2 feet from them - very small living room. Nothing like effortless dynamic presentation.

[LouC]

I think my current 12" 3-way clocks in over $120, though it is surprisingly decent all things considered :)

If anybody could/would, I knew it would be you Johnny! ;)
Gee, are you implying you had to make compromises at that price point ? :eek:

Seriously, they are probably a major step up from most of the house brand/white van boxes out there.

[MagicO309d]

I'll throw most of the blame on Bose with their relentless marketing of mini cube and wave radios as the smarter/better/sophisticated home audio solution in female oriented media starting during the early 1980's.

On the positive side, smaller woofers have come a long way in the meantime too so there's less of a size compromise for DIY.

[johnnyrichards]

If anybody could/would, I knew it would be you Johnny! ;)
Gee, are you implying you had to make compromises at that price point ? :eek:

Seriously, they are probably a major step up from most of the house brand/white van boxes out there.

I like to think so. Those poly GRS woofers are really quite good even considering the price. Is it a Tarkus beater? Not a chance lol.

Showcase thread here (http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?t=224467).

Really not bad at all. I had to make a few compromises, I will leave that up to the peanut gallery to figure out where :)

[Pallas]

I don't always agree with much of what you post but you are spot on with this one. Theater rooms and media rooms have become more commonplace today in affluent households. But larger speakers that have clear potential advantages for higher performance are still unpopular. Why? Because a sleek appearance or "form" has long since become more important than "function" to a large segment of the population. Since wives tend to have a greater concern for all things associated with aesthetics and interior design - they're the population segment that is most responsible for the trend. And husbands who have no spine are their enablers.
:D

Thing is, three of something like this (http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/synergy_horn.asp?model=SH%20100)
http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/images/sh100_large.jpg
mounted in a line on the front wall (either above an LCD, or behind a front projector screen) with appropriate subwoofers around the room will give better performance than pretty much any pair of monkey coffins jutting out into the room could dream of providing.

Admittedly, speakers like that are not "small" (the Danleys shown above are ~20" square face and ~10" deep) but the form factor is just plain smarter for systems in 2011 than the 1980s "monkey coffin."

[fntn]

This "large Marge" is a bit more my speed - easily among the best sounding speakers I've ever heard.


http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/vivid_audio_g1giya_loudspeaker/index.html

[AMC]

I think in a way you answered your own question, If people truly wanted them, they would build them. I think others, like myself, like them in a nostalgic way. They are cool, but I don't want them in my living room. I may be male, but I still like my house to look nice, and most monkey coffins were style less boxes better suited for shipping some good speakers in. That being said, some of the ones I have seen on here look very nice, Byzentyne (sp?) as one example. ( I even likes the woodies)

Then there is the challenge part of it. As has been stated more times then can be counted, this is not something you do to save money, it's for fun, a feeling of accomplishment, and a challenge. And the challenge part is exemplified by trying to get the most out of the least, be that size, dollars or otherwise.

So I look at them like a 32 ford roadster, Very cool, love to look at them, but it should take up space in someone else garage.

[frugala]

I think in a way you answered your own question, If people truly wanted them, they would build them. I think others, like myself, like them in a nostalgic way. They are cool, but I don't want them in my living room. I may be male, but I still like my house to look nice, and most monkey coffins were style less boxes better suited for shipping some good speakers in. That being said, some of the ones I have seen on here look very nice, Byzentyne (sp?) as one example. ( I even likes the woodies)

Then there is the challenge part of it. As has been stated more times then can be counted, this is not something you do to save money, it's for fun, a feeling of accomplishment, and a challenge. And the challenge part is exemplified by trying to get the most out of the least, be that size, dollars or otherwise.

So I look at them like a 32 ford roadster, Very cool, love to look at them, but it should take up space in someone else garage.

Well put. As I was reading this thread, I was formulating roughly the same post. As someone who has loved audio equipment for over 40 years, I enjoy looking at them and listening to them. I have no desire to own them. The challenge of trying to get great sound out of reasonably small boxes is part of what drives me.

[Wolf]

Raven R1/Audiom 7K2/Vifa 10" pair? You don't see those Vifas anymore, what a shame. Or are those SS carbon-paper 10" drivers?

At any rate- nice drivers!

Later,
Wolf

[wg_ski]

Or are those SS carbon-paper 10" drivers?


SS 25W/8565. They're becoming unobtainium, too.

[Pete Schumacher ®]

I don't always agree with much of what you post but you are spot on with this one. Theater rooms and media rooms have become more commonplace today in affluent households. But larger speakers that have clear potential advantages for higher performance are still unpopular. Why? Because a sleek appearance or "form" has long since become more important than "function" to a large segment of the population. Since wives tend to have a greater concern for all things associated with aesthetics and interior design - they're the population segment that is most responsible for the trend. And husbands who have no spine are their enablers.
:D

The wife LOVES these, and they're absolute beasts, weighing in at over 130 pounds per cabinet (and going up soon with the addition of a pedestal).

I just installed them in the TV room, and they look fabulous next to the plasma TV. Compared to where I had them before, I now sit literally twice as close, and it's obvious, with dynamics taking a big jump. With hard wood floors, and a TV stand that actually matches, not having a big rectangular box to attempt to decorate around makes things a bit easier.

They're not quite monkey coffins, but you could easily stuff a dead guy into each enclosure.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a203/pete_schumacher/Speaker%20projects/RSS315HF%203-way/DSC_0055.jpg

[Wolf]

SS 25W/8565. They're becoming unobtainium, too.

Ok- I wondered if those were it.

Still- nice pups!
Wolf

[AMC]

The wife LOVES these, and they're absolute beasts, weighing in at over 130 pounds per cabinet (and going up soon with the addition of a pedestal).


The difference here Pete, is that these have style. They may be large, but they have a flow and elegance about them, how many Monkey Coffins can you truly say that about?

Perhaps if more people had put the time you did in to designing them, they might still be around, but what we had were...
http://www.oaktreeent.com/web_photos/Stereo_Speakers/Cerwin-Vega_D-3_Stereo_Speakers_web2.jpg
and
http://www.sounddistributors.com/images/heresy.jpg

I don't see much in the way of style, want them in your living room?

[GranteedEV]

I love a nice, big speaker but it has to be tall...While I have my reservations on its likely sound (seems to lack directivity control, never seen any measurements or heard 'em), I'd love to have a pair of these fellas in my home: :eek:

http://crustyloafer.smugmug.com/photos/112950625_8bHUE-L.jpg

That right there is a speaker that looks like it means business, MAFIA business.

[Ron_E]

When I built these they were going to be a ft^3 larger until the owner built a mock up of my plans. His wife said if he put speakers that big in the LR he'd be buried in them. So I made the woofer volume smaller and added a linkwitz transform circuit to the project.

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/2517/robertspair.jpg

I've built some big boxes over the years. I once ran a pair of 12's in 7 cu. ft. boxes on each side with my ribbons.

These were pretty big too.

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/8862/weldonsspeakers4.jpg

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/9371/weldonsspeakers5.jpg

I was going to give up big speakers because my back is pretty worn out but I bought some woofers for a 3-way yesterday and it will probably end up being about 3 cu. ft. overall. Just didn't seem right to leave off the bottom octave.

Ron

[tron]

OH NO!!!! What have you guys done? Now you have me in the mood to build something BIG! My wheels are really turning now.

I really like the sound of the Aura NS6. I am thinking an MTM module in the middle with a BC25 Vifa. Sealed cab for the mids. Angle 2 8" forward around 20 degrees on top of them and 2 8" on the bottom angled 20 degrees up. No reason for the angle but it would look cool. It may also suppress some of the upper end break up since they will be off axis. So I guess it would be a WWMTMWW.

My current drawing allows 4 cubic feet for the 8". A little big for the NS8 but the DC200 looks happy. Yes, I am already drawing it up in cad. lol.

Just in thought mode right now but sure like what you guys have built!!!

Oh. One more thing. My wife likes the idea!!!

tron

[Froste]

I built these, they were hard to find a place for them.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_VxEMw7YIqQM/S5RudvPi_KI/AAAAAAAAApw/If5U6Hc7SrY/s640/IMG_4865.JPG

[tron]

Those look AWESOME! You guys are NOT helping me with my addiction.

These Pringles are really good. lol.(potato chip thread)

tron

[dtkeith]

Yes, I am already drawing it up in cad
tron

1st, what do you use for CAD, and is it mainly for speaker design, or everything.

And to everyone, what qualifies as a 'big' speaker? I think about 4ft cu is about perfect for everything, bigger for bigger room, but not much smaller, small speakers just.... i'm not sure, don't have that special sound...

[50 watt head]

Wives who've taken their husband's bawls and put them in a jar over the mantle.

The lack of monkey coffins is due to a lack of bawls, pure and simple.

Sure, in some cases, but in every case? ... I, for one, am limited by the size of our living room. There's only so much speaker you can fit in a given room.

[tron]

CAD:

I mostly use CadKey98 just because I have it on this machine. I have a student addition of ProE Wildfire but I have not tried it on my 64bit Windows 7 machine. Cadkey is ok for 2d isometric stuff but it is a pain to use the solids portion of the program. I am very fluent in ProE but it is very expensive!

I am also very curious as to what other folks use to draw up their designs so please chime in here! There are some pretty cool drawings on this forum.

LARGE?!:

I think there may be varied opinions of large. I am a big fan of a small two way system that will produce reasonable low end. So I guess my small is at most 1 to maybe 1.5 cubic foot or so. I also like the "mini" systems. I have several flavors of modified Radio Shack minimus7's that I have replaced the drivers in and redesigned the crossover. (I used the nd105-4 and nd20fa tweets) The "large" design I am kinda working on now is 67" tall and 9" wide so I am considering it a large type design.

I have 4 old Titanics in my living room driven with an EP2500 so low end is not an issue if what I have built will not hit the bottom octave. I really enjoy a design that is smaller and does not need a sub. I am not sure why but it is really cool when big sound comes from a small place!

Off topic to this thread:

I am a huge fan of the ND105. The Minimus 7 cabs are really too small for the woofer but the mids are really nice and the huge xmax will make a little low end in that cabinet. I mainly chose it for the nice mids and the fact it will fit in that box with very little effort. The ND20 will fit in the tweeter hole with a little sanding and hot glue! I have some of those little Peerless 4" to try in the next set. They make great computer speakers.

tron

[Ryan_M]

I was kind of wondering this myself... doesn't seem to be many 3ways being designed, at least not by comparison. Right now I'm running a set of speakers size wise alot like Zaph's 12.3 but mine use RSS315's. I'd like to scale back a bit on the size and those 12's just get me into trouble with the wife when I listen to music late at night. I have a RS TMWW 3way build on the go hoping the RS225's will be a good compromise andl get me into less trouble and save the RSS315's for subs for movies only.

Anyway I always wondered if small 2ways were better sound quality and sound stage wise given their popularity. I ran a set of smaller 2ways and though I got the sub(s) pretty well integrated after a lot of effort the bass just wasn't as good as my 3ways. I'm not sure I see $$$ as being a dominating factor in the small 2way's popularity. Once you add in the cost of building separate enclosures plus a plate amp or two, does it really work out much or any cheaper than the additional XO parts required to make those large drivers part of a 3way instead of separate subs?

[arlis_1957@yahoo.com]

I built these, they were hard to find a place for them.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_VxEMw7YIqQM/S5RudvPi_KI/AAAAAAAAApw/If5U6Hc7SrY/s640/IMG_4865.JPG

looks like they would fit on a catalog just about right.

[johnnyrichards]

I finally got my monkey coffins 100% finished, and after listening non-stop since 6 PM this evening the wife and I both agree that there is always room.

Gentlemen, those GRS drivers are worth every penny and then some.

[ROTECH]

The main reason for lack of monkey coffins is that as a whole, we are forced into building/buying/accepting what is market standard. This also plays into the WAF, they dont see huge speakers at the store, they see small, they make judgements about the small ones. Everything in our techy world is getting smaller, and most times, at the expense of quality.

Yes, there are many people who build amazing sounding "small speakers" but IMO, they do not compete with an equally well designed larger speaker. Most can agree. Expecially for "fun volume levels"

This part goes back to when I was about 13 years old, after getting wayyyy into speakers. I was at a local HI-FI and HT store, listening to a set of Paradigm bookshelves and being astonished at the clarity, though with most bookshelves, they lacked bass. The salesman turned on a $1500 subwoofer, and I instantly hated everything about it, there is and always will be a sense of separation when the low end comes from another source. Even if your computer and mic say otherwise. I had the salesman then power up a large set of high end coffins, and BAMMMM, I heard all I ever wanted, and have been trying to match that magical moment ever since with my projects.


A sure fire way around having our ***** in a jar, (WAF) is to get the wives more interested and involved in the speakers. I did, and it has come back tenfold in positives. I cant even take the wife to a bar/club/restaurant now without her criticizing the sound system,speakers, soundguy. She loves fidelity and impact now, with only seeing my DIY for 2 years since I have had the workshop. She accepts fidelity and impact over any predetermined market standard such as sleek theatre in a box kits.

Break down the walls of acceptance, blow the dust off your old coffins, and fire them up.

[Theresa]

My wife won't let me sell my speakers (not that I want to) because they, are perfect for our living room.

Yes my wife is a rare one.

We had her sister visit a while back and when she saw the speakers, she said she would never let her husband put something like that in her house.

Proof that this hobby is environmental not genetic.

Thank goodness for this environment

As an ex-wife and a speaker builder I can testify to this. I don't have "monkey coffins" but have heard a few good ones. SBacoustics has a very nice kit that fits this category. I honestly prefer monitor sized with subs though and they do look nicer IMHO and are far more flexible.

[foxfire3]

I finally got my monkey coffins 100% finished, and after listening non-stop since 6 PM this evening the wife and I both agree that there is always room.

Gentlemen, those GRS drivers are worth every penny and then some.

Johnny, is there a link to the build you're referring to?

[djg]

Le Singe Sarcophage in the gallery. Great name.

[donprice]

I got your monkey coffin right here...only 5 cubic feet. Get a big enough TV and they don't look so big.