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View Full Version : Five 6.5" woofers, On baffle measurements and some brief build quality impressions.



johnnyrichards
12-01-2011, 03:01 AM
Standard disclaimer here: not SPL accurate, are not anechoic or quasi-anechoic, I do not have FRD files, they are all taken under identical conditions for comparative purposes only. The baffle is 9.25"W x 15"H. measured at 19" from the mic. All drivers were surface mounted.

First up is the GRS poly cone unit sold by PE:
http://i.imgur.com/6vlkl.png

Second is the MCM poly cone (part number 55-2970):
http://i.imgur.com/IeyYd.png

Third is the Focal/JM Lab paper cone buyout from PE:
http://i.imgur.com/1jMVG.png

Fourth is the generic 6.5" buyout subwoofer from PE:
http://i.imgur.com/Pc8Wh.png

Fifth is the silver cone Bravox (12 ohm) buyout from PE:
http://i.imgur.com/ups88.png

Last is the NLA Realistic 40-1011A polypropylene woofer from Radio Shack:
http://i.imgur.com/wvhDC.png

The GRS, MCM, Focal, and subwoofer are all neck-and-neck WRT outward build quality. All four have thin, stamped steel frames and rubber surrounds - although the Focal has a smaller diameter surround than the others. The Focal lacks any voice coil venting, but has a bumped back plate. The GRS has a vented back plate, but lacks the bumping. The MCM has a vented and bumped back plate, as does the subwoofer. The Bravox is built way better than the other four drivers, with under dustcap and under spider venting, a bumped back plate (but no back plate vent), and a nice, open molded chassis.

The cones on the GRS and MCM are similar in construction and appearance, but not the same as I thought they might be when I ordered them. Obviously the MCM has a semi-inverted dustcap, and the GRS has a traditional dustcap. They both sport a medium soft foam gasket, as opposed to the cardboard the subwoofer uses. The Focal has no gasket. The Bravox has a cosmetic molded frame that is also truncated. The silver cone of the Bravox looks striking against my black test box, as well.

The Focal cone has a slight cast to it, might be just a touch of green in it. Hard for me to say, I have trouble with certain color ranges sometimes. Very old school looking driver with the smooth, untreated paper cone. It is better looking than the subwoofer, but the GRS and MCM are better looking than both of the paper cone units. The Bravox is better looking than all of them. Obviously, this is entirely subjective and YMMV.

Obviously the test box has an effect on the measured responses, but you can see that manifested in all five measurements. The primary one is a wide hump between 1 and 2k. You can subtract about 3db out of that region to get an idea.

Again, this is intended only for comparative purposes.

I did do some distortion testing on all five, but I am not going to publish those results. One of the drivers fared pretty poorly compared to the others, and one of them did much better compared to the others. To be honest, I am going to avoid the controversy so feel free to speculate :)

*Added 12/26/2011* The Realistic has a very attractive cone. It loses a build quality point or two because of the foam surround (longevity, not sound quality) and the lack of any voice coil venting. It also lacks a bumped back plate. The stamped frame is in the same class as the other drivers. The impulse response was the second best of the group so far, for whatever that is worth.

arlis_1957@yahoo.com
12-01-2011, 08:11 AM
thanks for the effort john. that bump at 180 is present in all. is that your room?

johnnyrichards
12-01-2011, 08:15 AM
thanks for the effort john. that bump at 180 is present in all. is that your room?

Basically, everything below 500 is my room. Gotta gate it somewhere :)

donradick
12-01-2011, 08:58 AM
Thanks Johnny - I've bought more than a few "dogs" as buyouts - and this generous sharing will help us all. I see now why you like that Bravox.

fjhuerta
12-01-2011, 10:30 AM
I'd love to see the distortion profile for the Focals. I have a feeling it'd be a bit ugly.

bwaslo
12-01-2011, 12:27 PM
You skipped the Aura 6" neo buyouts!

Dirk
12-01-2011, 12:34 PM
Is that Bravox sold out?

Brewski
12-01-2011, 01:05 PM
The silver cones are sold out the blue coned version from what I've read should be pretty close to the silver version performance wise if you can get over the blue portion of the equation.

I've got a couple of the silver ones stashed away that are waiting for an eventual 2 way build. Johnny how high do you think the silvers could be crossed?

Take it easy
Jay

johnnyrichards
12-01-2011, 06:33 PM
You skipped the Aura 6" neo buyouts!

I did, wouldn't fit in my test box, too small. Maybe something else can be done to add it to the mix.

johnnyrichards
12-01-2011, 06:35 PM
The silver cones are sold out the blue coned version from what I've read should be pretty close to the silver version performance wise if you can get over the blue portion of the equation.

I've got a couple of the silver ones stashed away that are waiting for an eventual 2 way build. Johnny how high do you think the silvers could be crossed?

Take it easy
Jay

Oh, 3 or 4 k depending on how much importance you place on CTC rules of thumb.

arlis_1957@yahoo.com
12-01-2011, 07:00 PM
the bravox sound very nice. i used them in a mtm with the vifa ox20

LouC
12-01-2011, 08:17 PM
Nice work Johnny, very Mythbuster :) They actually look fairly consistent.

I suspect the measurements aren't going to be the whole story at this price point. I really liked those Bravox 12 Ohm in the BRaptor (http://www.lonesaguaro.com/speakers/Buyout/BravoxTower.html) towers.

Frankly, for the price of a cocktail, I'm not sure how much time it would be worth to torment them for more data. ;)

johnnyrichards
12-01-2011, 10:18 PM
I have a bevy of silver Bravox drivers, and with their relatively low distortion, smooth response (and it had the cleanest impulse response of the five), and good looks they are destined for my five channel build someday.

6thplanet
12-02-2011, 12:11 AM
Cool comparison John! I like seeing things like that, it really helps DIYers check out how multiple speakers compair to each other in a common grounds situation. We need more "go to" graphs like that back to back, with out all jargon so to say...just FR/dist. measurements on a common playing field. Thumbs up!!

greywarden
12-02-2011, 05:55 AM
The Bravox looks awesome, some Satin Black Krylon Fusion shouldn't hurt the MMS to much, haha...

johnnyrichards
12-02-2011, 07:36 AM
Nice work Johnny, very Mythbuster :) They actually look fairly consistent.

I suspect the measurements aren't going to be the whole story at this price point. I really liked those Bravox 12 Ohm in the BRaptor (http://www.lonesaguaro.com/speakers/Buyout/BravoxTower.html) towers.

Frankly, for the price of a cocktail, I'm not sure how much time it would be worth to torment them for more data. ;)

After setting up the measurement rig (tape on the floor is a big one to make sure of repeatability in case my clumsy a$$ bumps stuff), it took about ten minutes per driver, including some basic distortion plots (1/12 octave in STEPS).

Besides, most of milking a cheapie for all it is worth is knowing how to minimize the uglies ;) In a build using these kinds of drivers (not the Bravox, that actually deserves a much closer look) knocking the peaks down and trying to keep distortion relatively flat across the spectrum gets you quite a ways towards a decent listening speaker. That is where I usually stop, unless the drivers I am using exhibit some other, desirable traits - then I will start tweaking off-axis and phase and all the other good stuff. With the top end on all four of the other drivers, for example, it would require more work than they are worth (or a more expensive tweeter than they might be worth, to cross low enough) to spend a lot of time getting a smooth, off-axis response.

johnnyrichards
12-02-2011, 07:38 AM
Cool comparison John! I like seeing things like that, it really helps DIYers check out how multiple speakers compair to each other in a common grounds situation. We need more "go to" graphs like that back to back, with out all jargon so to say...just FR/dist. measurements on a common playing field. Thumbs up!!

I agree, and I had quite a bit of fun with this little exercise. All five drivers cost ~$10 or so, except the MCM which I picked up for $5. They are all the same nominal size, this was a fair comparison of drivers in a typical "beginners cabinet". Lot of fun :)

johnnyrichards
12-02-2011, 07:38 AM
The Bravox looks awesome, some Satin Black Krylon Fusion shouldn't hurt the MMS to much, haha...

Nah man, on the satin black Cabrini cabinet, they looked superb :cool:

LouC
12-02-2011, 09:08 AM
A testament to your philosophy that this hobby is less about saving money and more about the intellectual challenge. Long live the Silk Purse...:D

tom_s
12-02-2011, 07:47 PM
A testament to your philosophy that this hobby is less about saving money and more about the intellectual challenge. Long live the Silk Purse...:D

I'll raise my glass to that!

Cheers

biscuitbarrell
12-02-2011, 10:33 PM
The Bravox looks awesome, some Satin Black Krylon Fusion shouldn't hurt the MMS to much, haha...

Exactly my gut reaction! Don't know til you try!

andrewkim
12-02-2011, 11:03 PM
I agree, and I had quite a bit of fun with this little exercise. All five drivers cost ~$10 or so, except the MCM which I picked up for $5. They are all the same nominal size, this was a fair comparison of drivers in a typical "beginners cabinet". Lot of fun :)

How well does measured TS parameters agree with published TS parameters: i.e.
Vas, Fs, Qts?

My Bravox Fs was around 75Hz after exercising the surrounds. Vas was off by 10-20%. (I guess this could be due to colder basement, where it was measured).

Can you share your T/S parameter derived? Just wondering.

johnnyrichards
12-03-2011, 08:14 AM
I'll have to drag them all out of my 10 degree garage and get them all warmed up again to get T/s off of them.

Lou, for me it has always been DIY for the sake of DIY. Just looking at time spent in the last five years I could have gotten a part time job flipping burgers and bought pretty much any pair of speakers I wanted. That ain't any fun, though.

biscuitbarrell
12-14-2011, 02:00 AM
...meant to say before, thanks for posting this kind of info. Your work is appreciated. It's above and beyond for what purists might otherwise turn up their noses at, but it is all educational for us noobs! Totally agree with the DIY for its own sake. D it for Y.

Whitneyville1
12-14-2011, 02:31 AM
Mr. JR has many good points on his head (just kidding!). OEM speaker builders want drivers that take CHEAP XO's and CHEAP other drivers to make a decent sounding speaker. When we can snag some buy-outs, alot of the work is already done for us. The Bravox's and the Aura 6"ers are near perfect examples. My imperfect measurements of the 6 1/2" 12 ohm Peerless midwoofers I got for my project seem to make them very easy to work with too. I'm hoping for a "Santa deal" on a WT3. I'm not really fond of buying a $5 driver and spending $40 on XO parts to whip it into shape. That's why I want some nice bargain paper/poly cone 4" woofers with fairly low Qts' to play with.

biscuitbarrell
12-15-2011, 03:29 AM
Mr. JR has many good points on his head (just kidding!). OEM speaker builders want drivers that take CHEAP XO's and CHEAP other drivers to make a decent sounding speaker. When we can snag some buy-outs, alot of the work is already done for us. The Bravox's and the Aura 6"ers are near perfect examples. My imperfect measurements of the 6 1/2" 12 ohm Peerless midwoofers I got for my project seem to make them very easy to work with too. I'm hoping for a "Santa deal" on a WT3. I'm not really fond of buying a $5 driver and spending $40 on XO parts to whip it into shape. That's why I want some nice bargain paper/poly cone 4" woofers with fairly low Qts' to play with.

Gospel.

johnnyrichards
12-26-2011, 04:14 AM
Added a NIB Realistic 40-1011A to the mix.