Tool advice: biscuit joiner...

[bolland83]

...I think I need one, what brand/models do you guys use, anything specific as far as features to look for? I've never actually used one, but I'm sure I could figure it out. I just don't want to end up buying a hunk of junk, I'm sure it will get plenty of use. What would y'all recommend?

[ROTECH]

Very few companies actually make them. Most distributors have Ryobi, then Porter Cable. There is a $200 price gap in the middle where nothing else is available.
The Porter Cable is the only way to go in my opinion. But thats only because RIDGID doesnt make one.

[djg]

I bought a Skil years ago, the absolute cheapest one available. It has been OK to use, not as precise as other brands I suppose, but it's all I know. Biscuit joinery leaves a bit of wiggle room as the biscuits are loose in the slots and swell with the glue.

[donradick]

A friend of mine who is a very accomplished wood worker loves his biscuit joiner. He told me do not get a cheap one - the slots won't match up, or be at the wrong angle, etc. A good biscuit joiner will be very precise every time. I do not own one, but I searched on Amazon a while back, and found one that everyone liked for about $150. Everyone seems to like this Dewalt:
http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW682K-6-5-Plate-Joiner/dp/B00002232S/ref=sr_1_7?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1328359149&sr=1-7

[maynardg]

I thought I needed one once. Have a DeWalt. Works great. For speaker boxes, I found it did not work for me better than clamps alone and added more time to the process.

These days I just but the MDF and pin with a brad nailer - clamp as needed.

I suppose I'll keep it in case I want to use it again sometime.

Then there are the biscuits. Keep them in a temperature and humidity controlled environment. Storing them in the ambient garage conditions resulted in swollen and unusable biscuits.

[theLinks]

I have a Dewalt also! I never used it to make any of my speakers either, but have used it a lot on other wood working projects. I like mine and the case keeps it easy to store.
Tim

[arlis_1957@yahoo.com]

i have one from horbor freight and it only ok. i would say if your going to use it for critical work, get the porter cable. it also has different size cutters to fit the application.

[LouC]

I have a Dewalt and am very happy with it. I also had a old Freud which was inexpensive and perfectly adequate, but did not survive a 5 ft fall to the concrete floor. Don't bother with any joiner that has a plastic fence.

IMO, for 3/4+ stock, and big cabinets, they are a great tool. Boxes self align, and square up nicely, and it's easy to straighten small warps in stock. I don't like brads in MDF, especially when I'm doing round overs. It can be a PITA to use with thinner stock.

You can get similar results with dado's. Like every other tool, you need to decide whether you'll use it enough.

[ssyfert]

I was going to recommend the freud

http://www.amazon.com/Freud-JS104K-Biscuit-Joiner-Case/dp/B001ET78TW

but looks like they aren't producing it anymore. A quick search on the web found some for sale, but they were more than I paid last year.

I love mine, lately I've been laminating plywood to make 1.5-2" thick stock out of 1/2" ply, I throw a few biscuits in there so it doesn't slide all over the place when I clamp. It helps a lot in clamping when you have something large but not an extra set of hands. In most of the times I've used it I wouldn't say it added a whole lot more strength, the strength is in the proper fitting glue joint. My 2 cents, I'd say buy one.

[MagicO309d]

One of Norm's old shows about building kitchen cabinets demonstrated how he now prefers using biscuits with continuous dados instead of cutting individual pockets with a dedicated tool. It's supposed to be the new, recognized technique for installing face-frames. Pockets are cut in the face-frame and dados are used on the cabinet edges.

The dados just need to be deep and narrow enough to match the desired biscuit size. Cut the dados with a handheld router with guide, router table, or tablesaw.

This might be a good technique for MDF speakers because the joinery automatically includes the "trench technique" in one operation.

[fastbike1]

Only one thing matters: the ability to easily adjust the fence parallel to the slot. They are not all the same in this regard.

I bought the Porter Cable after trying to cheap out. You can see both the Dewalt and PorterCable at Lowes. Look at them in person and decide which fence adjustment you like the best.

These days, Porter Cable and Dewalt are the same tool for almost everything BUT biscuit joiners.

FWIW, I've never had Maynard's problem with biscuits, provided you keep them sealed in the jar. Environments ranged from New England to Texas.


...I think I need one, what brand/models do you guys use, anything specific as far as features to look for? I've never actually used one, but I'm sure I could figure it out. I just don't want to end up buying a hunk of junk, I'm sure it will get plenty of use. What would y'all recommend?

[cjd]

The only one that actually adjusts properly to just about every use you would want is the Porter Cable... It's the way to go.

If it's just for speakers and you only need some of the uses covered, the Ryobi is nice to use, works consistently, and is a good price.

C

[fastbike1]

+10



The only one that actually adjusts properly to just about every use you would want is the Porter Cable... It's the way to go.

If it's just for speakers and you only need some of the uses covered, the Ryobi is nice to use, works consistently, and is a good price.

C

[marvin]

IMO, for 3/4+ stock, and big cabinets, they are a great tool. Boxes self align, and square up nicely, and it's easy to straighten small warps in stock.

+1

I also pre-cut two enclosures for my son-in-law a few years ago so he could assemble them at home (flat pack kit). Using biscuits made aligning and assembly a breeze.

I bought my Porter/cable some years ago when it seemed to have the edge in most reviews. It works well for me. It also has a dust collection port which is very effective when attached to my shop vac.

Marv

[maynardg]

FWIW, I've never had Maynard's problem with biscuits, provided you keep them sealed in the jar. Environments ranged from New England to Texas.

Chalk it up to the hot, FL garage.

[Face]

Craftsman makes a decent one. http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00917539000P?sid=IDx20070921x00003a&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=00917539000

[s7horton]

I'm using a Lamello. Though they aren't the cheapest around.

[bolland83]

That Craftsman looks just like the ryobi, it's probably the same tool. I'll have to check out the other ones mentioned here, thanks guys!

[Face]

That Craftsman looks just like the ryobi, it's probably the same tool. I'll have to check out the other ones mentioned here, thanks guys!
It's one of the few Craftsman tools that I actually enjoy using. :D

[Wolf]

I use the Ryobi, and I LOVE it! One of the best $100 purchases for tools, IMO. So- +20 in the fellows above!

Later,
Wolf

[mike s]

I also have a freud and it works fine for me as a hobbyist, although I can't say I use it frequently.

I also have a ryobe mini biscuit joiner, which has way too much slop in the cut to be of any use.

[smithnc]

I have a Dewalt also and though I have not moved past the basics it works.

I switched away from biscuits and started using pocket screws for a lot of things. I have the Kreg pocket screw jig.

I haven't seen any mention of pocket screw joinery here yet and I wondered if anyone was using them for speakers.

[r-carpenter]

DeWalt if you want new and made in China.
Look for original Lamello on ebay. If you lucky, you'll find it used for the price of new DeWalt and even used it's a 10 times the machine.

[Wolf]

I also have a ryobe mini biscuit joiner, which has way too much slop in the cut to be of any use.

If that's the $100 unit, I have not had that same issue:

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/400/cf/cfc3a09e-d095-4f74-9cba-dad3400d0abf_400.jpg

Later,
Wolf

[jgleadall]

Lamello by far makes the best biscuit jointer, but i think the best cost/performance compromise would be the porter cable. I own one, mainly because it is a decent brand and it has good features for the price point. Ive used it a lot and it adjusts accurately, holds and angle well and is solid and powerful enough. I also like the wide range of angles you can adjust the fence to.
http://www.kmstools.com/images/large/P/PC-557_LRG.jpg

[fastbike1]

That doesn't match my experience. I use the Ryobi mini when I make picture frames and haven't had any issues with sloppy cuts. Once the fence is adjusted it stays put and I haven't had trouble adjusting parallel.



I also have a ryobe mini biscuit joiner, which has way too much slop in the cut to be of any use.

[ROTECH]

I have a Dewalt also and though I have not moved past the basics it works.

I switched away from biscuits and started using pocket screws for a lot of things. I have the Kreg pocket screw jig.

I haven't seen any mention of pocket screw joinery here yet and I wondered if anyone was using them for speakers.

I love the KREG and have started using it on all of my cabinet bracing. It's definitely one the the best things I have spent $100 on.

[Soundslike]

In my experience, biscuit joiners aren't the easiest thing in the world to use, and require good technique to use accurately. As has been said already, the biggest difference among the models available, is the fence. I have one that I received as a Christmas gift years ago, and use it now and then -- rarely for speakers. If I'm not mistaken, biscuit joiners are advantageous in a limited number of situations, as compared to other joining methods -- they're great for building up a flat panel from solid wood (such as when making a raised panel for a cabinet door), or when additional strength is needed and other methods are impractical (such as when attaching a face frame to cabinets). But for building a box, which is essentially what we're doing when we make a speaker enclosure, I don't think they offer much compared to other joining methods. I favor a rabbeted joint for both strength and alignment. Most models adapt a 4" angle grinder to provide the necessary power. The Ryobi appears to be the exception.

I have one you can borrow for a project, to see if you like them. It doesn't have a great fence, but you'll get some hands-on experience...

[mike s]

Wolf, your joiner has a much nicer fence than the plastic one on mine which is more than a few years old.
DBJ 50 http://parts.sears.com/partsdirect/part-model/Ryobi-Parts/Jointer-planer-Parts/Model-DBJ50/0909/0725000/P0509074/00001

It has a shorter plastic fence that has a bead/bump running across it's back which can be placed into one of 25? groves on the main body as means to adjust height.

That the bead on the fence can wiggle a bit in the grove of the body during the fence lock down may be part of the problem from day one.

[williamrschneider]

Whichever you get (if you choose to buy one), make a simple jig from MDF or plywood to make working with it MUCH easier, faster, and more accurate.

http://www.ohio.edu/people/schneidw/audio/images/biscuitjig1txt_sml.jpg

Trying to balance the heavy tool on an edge was no fun freehand (but doable). The jig makes it easy-peasy.

[fastbike1]

+1
A jig like Bill's is almost mandatory when you want to put biscuits in the face of your material.


Whichever you get (if you choose to buy one), make a simple jig from MDF or plywood to make working with it MUCH easier, faster, and more accurate.

http://www.ohio.edu/people/schneidw/audio/images/biscuitjig1txt_sml.jpg

Trying to balance the heavy tool on an edge was no fun freehand (but doable). The jig makes it easy-peasy.

[jonpike]

Wow, now that jig looks like the hot ticket...

I had to laugh at (with) the HF joiner comment... I bought one of those, and it's probably the worst example I've found of the HF "sometimes surprising quality for cheap, to sometimes not worth it's extremely cheap price" continuum of quality... :rolleyes: And we're talking $40 on sale cheap...

That said, fiddling around with it brought up the usability quite a bit. I think I even took apart and smoothed some of the injection molded parts... But I got tired of it before really using it much. Mostly the difficulty in keeping it square while making the cuts. I'd think Bill's jig might have helped a lot, probably would with all of them....

[Robert Dunn]

A friend of mine who is a very accomplished wood worker loves his biscuit joiner. He told me do not get a cheap one - the slots won't match up, or be at the wrong angle, etc. A good biscuit joiner will be very precise every time.

I have a cheap Harbor Freight/Chicago Tools BJ (current price is $60, less on sale) but haven't used it for speakers. I'm sure that it's not super-accurate but it's worked fine for panel glue-ups. Even a good one will give you slots that don't match up -- you have to think ahead about which face to slot from.

[Deward Hastings]

the HF "sometimes surprising quality for cheap, to sometimes not worth it's extremely cheap price" continuum of quality... :rolleyes:Oh that . . .

But I don't believe I've ever laughed as loud in a tool store as I did at the yardstick with the "Always wear safety glasses when using this tool" sticker on it . . .

[fastbike1]

That's not the joiner's fault. :)



Even a good one will give you slots that don't match up -- you have to think ahead about which face to slot from.

[Wolf]

+1
A jig like Bill's is almost mandatory when you want to put biscuits in the face of your material.

I guess I don't see the issue when I use mine. I've used it on braces, end-edges, and inside edges, and nothing has ever been problematic in terms of balancing or such.

I guess I'm clueless why you have the issue.
Later,
Wolf

[Robert Dunn]

That's not the joiner's fault. :)

What? Did I try to blame the tool? I use that excuse only when trying to convince my wife that I really, really need a new, absurdly expensive tool. (Sometimes it works.)

[fastbike1]

Biscuits in the face, not the edges. Typically means you have the joiner fence resting on a 3/4" edge. The joiner can tip or you need more hands than you have. Lot's of solutions if you have a woodworking bench/vises, etc.

If you just lay the board flat, you depend on your lining up parallel with the end and the joiner not twisting when it starts. If you don't have issues, then more power to you.

Everyone's setup is different, everyone has different issues. That fact seems to get forgotten frequently.


I guess I don't see the issue when I use mine. I've used it on braces, end-edges, and inside edges, and nothing has ever been problematic in terms of balancing or such.

I guess I'm clueless why you have the issue.
Later,
Wolf

[mattsk8]

Biscuit Joiners, depends on your budget...

Best: Festool Domino Joiner, runs about $700 Read reviews on this, incredible tool

Best: Lamello, anywhere from $600 to $1100

2nd best: Porter Cable, about $220 (only reason this is better than the Dewalt is because it does FF biscuits, Dewalt doesn't. Plus the fence will go about 3/4" deeper on the Porter Cable than the Dewalt's fence goes)

3rd best: Dewalt, about $170

Can't comment on the Ryobi, I've never used one or seen one used.

I have both the Dewalt and the PC. I use my Dewalt for all my #20 biscuits and my PC for FF biscuits. I had the Dewalt first and it's a good joiner, but I ran into a situation where I had to do FF biscuits so I had to get the PC. If I had the money I'd get the Festool for sure but I just can't justify it because my other 2 joiners do a good job.

The Kreg jig is an awesome tool as well, but I don't think it entirely replaces a biscuit joiner. I use a Kreg Jig to glue all my kitchen cabinet face frames together until I tried to use it on hickory. It would crack the hickory because of how hard and brittle hickory is so I had to use the FF biscuits.

Also, if you're joining boards to make a table top or something like that, biscuits are the only way to go!

As far as ease of use, I've never made a jig and always thought biscuit joiners were very well thought out tools and pretty easy to use. Just draw a line on the 2 pieces your joining together, set depth to the center of your board's joint, pull the trigger and push. Never ran into a problem w/ it. I don't use it to make speaker cabinets though, dadoed joints are plenty strong for that but I also always use MDF for my speaker cabinets. If I were going to use 3/4" ply w/ miters (which I imagine would be a nightmare), I would probably use FF biscuits to joint the mitered corners together. I also don't use it when I make my kitchen cabinet boxes either, dadoed joints here as well. I do use biscuits to join my face frames to my cabinets though.

[Wolf]

Biscuits in the face, not the edges. Typically means you have the joiner fence resting on a 3/4" edge. The joiner can tip or you need more hands than you have. Lot's of solutions if you have a woodworking bench/vises, etc.

If you just lay the board flat, you depend on your lining up parallel with the end and the joiner not twisting when it starts. If you don't have issues, then more power to you.
.

I use the table-saw as a work surface, and the Ryobi does not kick like that on startup. As long as you have a work-plane to use to keep your slots in the same referecned area, it's not hard.

I was more or less trying to simplify the issues spoken of in this thread to make it easier for others using it.

Later,
Wolf

[williamrschneider]

To anyone looking for a used biscuit joiner, there are several listed on the Woodnet Swap n' Sell forum right now.

http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=UBB4