Exceptional 18" drivers for 8 cu.ft., 25hz tuning ported box?

[STIchris722]

That's part of the reason. What's also in play is that the number of speakers and the amount of power required to drive them in large venues is prohibitive. Besides, as far as feeling the bass is concerned with music, that doesn't happen below 35Hz, it happens between 50 and 80Hz. It just needs to be in excess of 110dB at the listening position to do it.

Bill you are correct. I was making a non-mentioned reference to HT applications where sub-sonic frequencies are used for dynamic effects. Didn't really make sense for a PA application. Good catch.

[billfitzmaurice]

Content much below 35Hz is near non-existent in PA/SR applications. The reason for this is due to the human ear not entirely processing those frequencies as audible, but rather perceived as feeling.

That's part of the reason. What's also in play is that the number of speakers and the amount of power required to drive them in large venues is prohibitive. Besides, as far as feeling the bass is concerned with music, that doesn't happen below 35Hz, it happens between 50 and 80Hz. It just needs to be in excess of 110dB at the listening position to do it.

[STIchris722]

Specs look good, but for that kind of money, I'd surely be looking at 18s from Beyma, B&C, 18 Sound,BMS,Ciare

Agreed. It's just nice to know that Eminence is finally stepping up their game with the rest of the market. Time will tell if the products are worth while though. Price tag is steep though as you have mentioned. I was begging Anthony for years to make a Neo 18" or something in an 18" format with a high Xmax, decent tuning, and respectable sensitivity. Yes these all contradict each other and there are trade-offs, but you get what I am saying. Compare a Definimax 18LF to that B&C driver I listed.....No contest. Hopefully they are making a comeback!

[guitar maestro]

I am curious to see how these new babes will play: Eminence FSW4018-8 18" Professional Tour Grade Subwoofer Driver. The specs look solid at first glance

Specs look good, but for that kind of money, I'd surely be looking at 18s from Beyma, B&C, 18 Sound,BMS,Ciare

[STIchris722]

I agree with the Impero, but if I recall correctly Anthony from Eminence said one time that this was an outdated driver that should have been phased out a long time ago. I don't have a lot of experience with that driver personally, but it modeled well.

I am curious to see how these new babes will play: Eminence FSW4018-8 18" Professional Tour Grade Subwoofer Driver. The specs look solid at first glance. I haven't sat down and modeled it yet. I did model the 21" and didn't think it looked good at all though. Just my $0.02

[STIchris722]

I've taken over a hundred RTAs of national and international touring acts, playing through million dollar plus systems fully capable of going to 20Hz. None had meaningful content below 35Hz. 25Hz and below has its place in home theaters, but that's it. Even real theaters don't bother probing those depths.

I second this as an opinion only (maybe some fact). We just had a discussion on another thread regarding this same subject in woofers/sub-woofers. Content much below 35Hz is near non-existent in PA/SR applications. The reason for this is due to the human ear not entirely processing those frequencies as audible, but rather perceived as feeling. The example I made was the low B string on a 5 string bass. It's fundamental frequency is 31Hz if I recall correctly. The overtones/harmonics are in the 60Hz plus range. I challenge anyone to find a bass guitar manufacturer with accurate data stating any of their cabinets are hitting 31Hz @ 0dB. There is no need to play that low and if in fact you do, it sounds like mud IMO.

Recording professionals tell you the first thing to do when mixing drums is to HPF everything to 40Hz minimum to take out the mud and boominess (Kick drum specifically). I literally just read this last night. I am in total agreement that sub 35Hz isn't necessary in PA/SR applications because of the reason stated above. As far as HT is concerned, this wasn't the venue to talk about that so I'd leave that for another day.

Back to the original question in the post though.....I built some ported subs a while back using the Eminence Kappalite 3015LF 8ohm sub-woofers. The boxes were 4ft^3 and tuned to 44Hz. They sound beautiful and handle nearly anything I throw at them (They have a 24dB/octave subsonic filter on them @40Hz though). The only time I felt like they were lacking a little was when a synth was playing and/or drop tuning on a 5 string bass (metal-heads)! To combat this, I built 8ft^3 boxes tuned to 35Hz with an F3 of 32.4Hz (B&C 18TBW100 18" Professional Subwoofer 8 Ohm). The cone runs out of excursion right @30Hz. This was the perfect sub IMO. I cannot fathom tuning any lower. It could be done, but you would be sacrificing output/excursion for inaudible extension.

The last thing worth noting is running 8ohm sub-woofers. That has always been my preference so that I can run my amps bridged mono @4ohms when I run two (2) subs in parallel. I don't know of too many people that mix live in Stereo except maybe huge stadiums with side fills, but then again I could be wrong. I just have never encountered it in my lifetime.

[duronboy]

Wrote a long reply and it was flagged as spam. Nice one, PE.

[duronboy]

I've taken over a hundred RTAs of national and international touring acts, playing through million dollar plus systems fully capable of going to 20Hz. None had meaningful content below 35Hz. 25Hz and below has its place in home theaters, but that's it. Even real theaters don't bother probing those depths.

I do doubt, as a percentage, many national touring acts are actually capable delivering 25-ish-hz frequencies at the level necessary to make the WOW experience they're capable of causing.

I think there are enough genres that appeal to enough people that contain, or could contain added sub-30hz content. Tool fans maybe, Taylor Swift, maybe not? Definitely hip-hop, definitely metal, definitely electronic. Then there's old weirdo organ music from like 50-100 years ago that goes down to 16hz. I'm not really sure how many churchgoers will appreciate that, but with the subs my dad is having me build, they could get the chance to experience it! lol

But the main problem is not enough people are trying to do it. 35hz is deep, and acceptably deep for the vast majority of people, so that's as good as we can hope for.

I've been underwhelmed by nearly every theater. Theaters are terrible. For a lot of reasons. But theaters are trying minimize interference between rooms their jam-packed buildings. You get 45-50hz in a lot of theaters.

[billfitzmaurice]

I've taken over a hundred RTAs of national and international touring acts, playing through million dollar plus systems fully capable of going to 20Hz. None had meaningful content below 35Hz. 25Hz and below has its place in home theaters, but that's it. Even real theaters don't bother probing those depths.

[duronboy]

There's no need to go lower than 30Hz in pro-sound.

No need? Little need, maybe, but only because some people keep insisting it's pointless. I used to be one of those people. I can't see how you're one of those people considering you sell designs for subs supposedly capable of 25hz.

There's a bit of sub-30hz stuff on youtube, some of it's rap and pop that's been slowed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mccQutJk3oM

Can't say I enjoy most of it, but some yes. The capability of hitting below 30hz is here, at least in a very limited number of systems. https://www.prosoundweb.com/channels...the_new_50_hz/

[billfitzmaurice]

I'm pretty sure Le/Re won't be too much of an issue for it's intended purpose.

It seldom is with a subwoofer.

This is PA so no need for 20hz output outdoors.

There's no need to go lower than 30Hz in pro-sound.

[guitar maestro]

The Adire won't work for a couple of reasons. Too expensive, low sensitivity. This is PA so no need for 20hz output outdoors. Currently looking at McCauley 6174....

Gotcha. Take a look at the offerings from Beyma. I like a lot of the specs on their line-up.

No technical specs on the site though. For that price, I'd want to see the t/s parameters and an impedance curve at least.

Hopefully the characters selling that driver are not like the ones at Stereo Integrity, who got a bit hot and bothered on their FB page because I raised a query about the driver's high Le/Re ratio....

With a (relatively) short coil necessary for XBL² motor, and with shorting rings, I'm pretty sure Le/Re won't be too much of an issue for it's intended purpose.

[noviygera]

The Adire won't work for a couple of reasons. Too expensive, low sensitivity. This is PA so no need for 20hz output outdoors. Currently looking at McCauley 6174....

[Brian Steele]

You can also get an Adire Audio Kali 18", that should blow pretty much any 18" out of the water for clean, clear deep bass reproduction. 4" coil, XBL², dual flux demodulation/shorting rings, 40mm one-way X-max. 3kW RMS.

No technical specs on the site though. For that price, I'd want to see the t/s parameters and an impedance curve at least.

Hopefully the characters selling that driver are not like the ones at Stereo Integrity, who got a bit hot and bothered on their FB page because I raised a query about the driver's high Le/Re ratio....

[guitar maestro]

You can get the Aurasound NS18-992-4A on Madisound.

You can also get an Adire Audio Kali 18", that should blow pretty much any 18" out of the water for clean, clear deep bass reproduction. 4" coil, XBL², dual flux demodulation/shorting rings, 40mm one-way X-max. 3kW RMS.