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Good power amp that can deliver lots of power at low frequencies (ie below 20Hz)

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  • #16
    Re: Good power amp that can deliver lots of power at low frequencies (ie below 20Hz)

    In general, once you get past 20,000 uF you see very little if any improvement in any audio amplifier. If you were going to upgrade I'd stop there. Under that and you do notice it. Some of the early QSCs used as little as 3300, and the bass did suffer. Doubling wouldn't be a serious probelm with inrush current, but fitting them on the PCB might be. These amps use board-mounted caps, not soup cans with screw terminals. The 5050 used 15,000 and the CA18 uses 24,000.

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    • #17
      Re: Good power amp that can deliver lots of power at low frequencies (ie below 20Hz)

      Well I'll leave it alone for now then I'm driving 8 ohm loads and its still very VERY powerful for the DVC385 Dayton drivers so I'm overall very happy. I might swap the fan out and get one thats maybe about half the noise - and of course a bit less air flow but for a home theater application where its not a steady load, I think it will be just fine.

      Originally posted by wg_ski View Post
      In general, once you get past 20,000 uF you see very little if any improvement in any audio amplifier. If you were going to upgrade I'd stop there. Under that and you do notice it. Some of the early QSCs used as little as 3300, and the bass did suffer. Doubling wouldn't be a serious probelm with inrush current, but fitting them on the PCB might be. These amps use board-mounted caps, not soup cans with screw terminals. The 5050 used 15,000 and the CA18 uses 24,000.

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      • #18
        Re: Good power amp that can deliver lots of power at low frequencies (ie below 20Hz)

        Originally posted by wg_ski View Post
        In general, once you get past 20,000 uF you see very little if any improvement in any audio amplifier. If you were going to upgrade I'd stop there. Under that and you do notice it. Some of the early QSCs used as little as 3300, and the bass did suffer. Doubling wouldn't be a serious probelm with inrush current, but fitting them on the PCB might be. These amps use board-mounted caps, not soup cans with screw terminals. The 5050 used 15,000 and the CA18 uses 24,000.
        How about an outboard "capacitor box" hosting the larger caps? Custom fit two terminals to the amp's back plate, connect those to the correct location on the PCB, and then connect the "capacitor box" to those terminals. This also provides an easy means of A/B'ing the difference when the extra caps are connected...
        Brian Steele
        www.diysubwoofers.org

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        • #19
          Re: Good power amp that can deliver lots of power at low frequencies (ie below 20Hz)

          With old school amps you could do that. The QSCs, clones, and most modern non-switch-mode PA amps use flying-rail power supplies. Extra inductance in the supply leads and stray capacitances to ground and everything else will affect the stability of the amp. If you start it up oscillating, you'll hear a lot more than a change in the bass response. The effects will be unpredictable at best, catastrophic at worst. Either you fit it on or right near the board, or take a risk.

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          • #20
            Re: Good power amp that can deliver lots of power at low frequencies (ie below 20Hz)

            Originally posted by eyekode View Post
            Any reason why you suggest the xti series over the new drivecore models? Aren't they similar?

            By the way I am surprised to hear the xls 1500 couldn't keep up. From most of what I have read they are fine amps. I currently have a crown ps-400 and I plan on switching to an XLS1000 at some point.
            Salem
            The 3 factory "B" stock XTi4000s I bought on eBay for my subs were $650 each (with 3-year warranty), and have more bang-for-the-buck than the XLS2500. I thought that solved both conditions for power & cost. You just have to shop around.

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            • #21
              Re: Good power amp that can deliver lots of power at low frequencies (ie below 20Hz)

              Originally posted by Cuppa Joe View Post
              The 3 factory "B" stock XTi4000s I bought on eBay for my subs were $650 each (with 3-year warranty), and have more bang-for-the-buck than the XLS2500. I thought that solved both conditions for power & cost. You just have to shop around.
              I saw a thread a while back on the avsforums where a tested XTI failed to produce much power in 4ohms at 20Hz. Basically 1/4 of its power where as at 8 ohm, it make close to rated power.

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              • #22
                Re: Good power amp that can deliver lots of power at low frequencies (ie below 20Hz)

                Originally posted by contoursvt View Post
                I saw a thread a while back on the avsforums where a tested XTI failed to produce much power in 4ohms at 20Hz. Basically 1/4 of its power where as at 8 ohm, it make close to rated power.
                Mine are used for live sound reinforcement, so they're not seeing much below 40Hz, and I've had no reason to test them any lower. Is this for a tactile effect in a home theater system? If not, why the need to reproduce subsonic (below 30Hz) frequencies?

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                • #23
                  Re: Good power amp that can deliver lots of power at low frequencies (ie below 20Hz)

                  The 4000's reportedly don't suffer from the power supply limiting problem in the 1000.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Good power amp that can deliver lots of power at low frequencies (ie below 20Hz)

                    I see there's a Crown xti 1000 available for me on craigslist. I can buy it cheaper than a new plate amp. They're rated to run 4 to 16 ohm loads. if I configure an efficient sub to run at 12 ohms there shouldn't be any real issue with this amp. or is it still questionable? I will be using it more for music, but still want some low frequency rumble and growl when needed. I want the DSP and the versatility a proamp offers over a plate amp. I've read the thread on AVS, but I'm not sure its as bad of an amp as some of them made it sound. What do you think? Find something else?

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                    • #25
                      Re: Good power amp that can deliver lots of power at low frequencies (ie below 20Hz)

                      Lab Gruppen FP14000 clone; this is what I use:

                      http://www.avsforum.com/t/1334237/la...one-amplifiers

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                      • #26
                        Anyone else running the LG clones like the FP14000 and HDC 10000Q? Thinking of picking them up (from the USA Ebay vendor) to play around with.

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                        • #27
                          Anyone? Bueller? Surprised these aren't more popular amongst this crowd.

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                          • #28
                            Not much, keeping cost equal, will beat a good, old school, boat anchor of a pro, class A/B power amp.* Think Crown MA, MT and CT lines.* I've got a rack full of Crown Com-Tech 410s, 810s and 1610s for my home theater mains/center/surrounds, and 4 Micro-Tech 2400s on subs.* A good friend of mine went with QSC HD line of amps(class H, I believe, 1850HD and 2400HD) and was satisfied until I hooked him up with a pair of Micro-Tech 2400s.* He says the amp change alone made quite the difference.

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                            • #29
                              I used to think so too, and while i have a bunch of boat anchors holding down a big ol' 15" ported box, my IPR2 7500 made me a believer of Class D type amps for home/pro audio.



                              Using a IPR2 7500 to break in some stout midbasses




                              I should have a Bortec Lab (LG clone) FP14000 and FP20000Q here pretty soon to ruck around with.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by guitar maestro View Post
                                I used to think so too, and while i have a bunch of boat anchors holding down a big ol' 15" ported box, my IPR2 7500 made me a believer of Class D type amps for home/pro audio.
                                Sure, I get it, that's why I included the "keeping cost equal" part.* I bought 2 used Com-Tech 1610s for less than the price of one used IPR2 7500, and had money left over to buy an 810.* I'm mostly referring to the "pro" amps that have been become popular in recent years.* Also, no offense, but the CS800X isn't what I'd consider a great bass amp, even with the beefedbee components of the X.* I've owned some, as well as others, and so far, nothing has come close to the Crowns.
                                *

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