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Sunflower center build begins - and some questions

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Jeff F. View Post
    Since I've never worked with and don't remember even seeing in person the non backed veneer...I believe that both sides of the non backed would look the same. The backed veneer will look like wood on one side and have a paper/cardboard look on the other. Here's a pic for an example, notice the grain pattern on one side and the paper on the other.

    ok thanks, will inspect my veneer when I get back home. I don't seem to see any retail stores here in Canada that carry the Heat Lock glue, will have to keep looking.

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    • #62
      I couldn't find any local sellers in my area either. I had to order directly from veneersupplies.com. If you order from them, probably wait till Spring so your glue doesn't freeze in transit.

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      • #63
        Fellow Canadian checking in. I purchased veneer from Lee Valley - Cherry backed veneer. I ultimately used Royal Lepage white glue from Home Hardware (the white glue at Home Hardware, anyway). It has worked fine for me and I have not had any issues after 3 or 4 years. I oil my cabinets on occasion and have never noticed any of the veneer lifting off. The one even survived a fall off my speaker stand into the drywall and then landing right on the corner onto my laminate flooring. Corner is dented a bit, but the veneer is still adhered well.

        I had never done veneering before my Overnight Sensations MTM build, so it took me a while to get comfortable with the glue and process. I had some kids' school glue on hand and tried that - the glue never set properly and I could peel off the veneer from the plywood regardless of method I used. However, the Royal Lepage with iron on worked for me when I did this:
        1. Roll glue onto veneer
        2. Roll glue onto plywood
        3. Let both dry
        4. Moisten both veneer and plywood with a damp paper towel - it should feel 'tacky' after doing this
        5. Apply veneer onto box and begin ironing - it should be stuck once it reaches a hot enough temperature (which isn't that hot - I put a t-shirt / rag over the veneer and had no burning or scorch marks on it)
        6. I let it sit about a day before I trimmed away the excess, if I recall correctly. I'm not sure if this is necessary.

        I tried different methods at (on small sample pieces) - I can't recall where I started "moistening" the two surfaces before ironing, so I left that out, below. I can't say whether this is 100% necessary to moisten, but I will do it again in the future.
        1. One layer glue on veneer, nothing on playwood - did not work. This was immediately apparent by being able to peel the veneer off the plywood
        2. Two layers glue on veneer, nothing on plywood - did not work. This was immediately apparent by being able to peel the veneer off the plywood
        2.1 School glue instead of white RLP glue - it never "locked on". This was immediately apparent by being able to peel the veneer off the plywood
        3. One layer glue on veneer, one on plywood - this did work. Trying to peel off the veneer resulted in shredding and tearing apart of the veneer - the bond held firm
        4. Two layers on each - this worked, but is not necessary. I don't think I did much here - it was overkill and I didn't bother looking into it further

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        • #64
          Originally posted by greyson View Post
          Fellow Canadian checking in. I purchased veneer from Lee Valley - Cherry backed veneer. I ultimately used Royal Lepage white glue from Home Hardware (the white glue at Home Hardware, anyway). It has worked fine for me and I have not had any issues after 3 or 4 years. I oil my cabinets on occasion and have never noticed any of the veneer lifting off. The one even survived a fall off my speaker stand into the drywall and then landing right on the corner onto my laminate flooring. Corner is dented a bit, but the veneer is still adhered well.

          I had never done veneering before my Overnight Sensations MTM build, so it took me a while to get comfortable with the glue and process. I had some kids' school glue on hand and tried that - the glue never set properly and I could peel off the veneer from the plywood regardless of method I used. However, the Royal Lepage with iron on worked for me when I did this:
          1. Roll glue onto veneer
          2. Roll glue onto plywood
          3. Let both dry
          4. Moisten both veneer and plywood with a damp paper towel - it should feel 'tacky' after doing this
          5. Apply veneer onto box and begin ironing - it should be stuck once it reaches a hot enough temperature (which isn't that hot - I put a t-shirt / rag over the veneer and had no burning or scorch marks on it)
          6. I let it sit about a day before I trimmed away the excess, if I recall correctly. I'm not sure if this is necessary.

          I tried different methods at (on small sample pieces) - I can't recall where I started "moistening" the two surfaces before ironing, so I left that out, below. I can't say whether this is 100% necessary to moisten, but I will do it again in the future.
          1. One layer glue on veneer, nothing on playwood - did not work. This was immediately apparent by being able to peel the veneer off the plywood
          2. Two layers glue on veneer, nothing on plywood - did not work. This was immediately apparent by being able to peel the veneer off the plywood
          2.1 School glue instead of white RLP glue - it never "locked on". This was immediately apparent by being able to peel the veneer off the plywood
          3. One layer glue on veneer, one on plywood - this did work. Trying to peel off the veneer resulted in shredding and tearing apart of the veneer - the bond held firm
          4. Two layers on each - this worked, but is not necessary. I don't think I did much here - it was overkill and I didn't bother looking into it further

          Hey! Thank you for your response! I think I will give this method a try, sounds promising! I assume you applied the glue on the box and on the back of veneer using a roller? Also, when you say dampen both, you mean the glued side correct? Do you need to dampen the good (finish) side of the veneer?

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          • #65
            I would highly recommend a sponge roller. Some of the first few pieces I used a flat piece of wood to try and smooth out the glue, but it's not as effective or fast as using a roller. I took multiple days to apply all of the glue and used a bag to bag up the roller to keep the glue fresh. It worked ok, but wasn't perfect as the seal wasn't air tight. I just didn't like throwing away multiple rollers. I think I only was able to get two different days out of each, so did end up going through a four pack of them.

            I dampened the glue side, yes. I did not dampen the good (wood veneer - finished) side. Perhaps that would help with curling, but I didn't find it was too much of an issue. I taped down my veneer when rolling the glue on and let it dry that way to minimize the curling effect.

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            • #66
              Thank you again for all who contributed to the build and the sharing of knowledge. I have ordered the sound level meter from Amazon for $29.99 shipped, which is pretty good for Canada! Will follow the procedure that rvsixer posted to tune the 3.0 system. I'll also check in once I get time to start on the veneering this spring!

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              • #67
                Originally posted by greyson View Post
                I took multiple days to apply all of the glue and used a bag to bag up the roller to keep the glue fresh. It worked ok, but wasn't perfect as the seal wasn't air tight.
                Plastic actually lets air in through its porous membrane (think helium balloon shrinking over a day). I've use aluminum foil and have kept a brush fresh from weekend to weekend using oil based paints. Just wrap it up, cheap and effective.

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                • #68
                  Aha! I'll use foil in the future. Thanks for the tip!

                  I was at my workbench this weekend and saw my glue. It's Lepage or LePage glue. Not Royal Lepage - which is a realtor agency. My bad!

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                  • #69
                    welp...the sunflower center channel has been GREAT so far. With my limited experience, I'd say that this speaker timbre matches very well with the Amigas...at least I feel like it blends well, as I can't quite determing which speaker is providing which noises/frequencies. It also fixed my low-dialog/voices problem YAY!

                    Received my electronic decibel meter two weeks ago, played with it a bit but have not had a chance to do test tone with each speaker to measure the volume and confirm with current YPAO settings. Will do this soon.

                    Now, being me, I can't NOT have a project on the go (I'm sure you all understand) and so I saw a new kit on Parts-express that fits the bill pretty perfectly for rear surrounds....for a real reasonable price that I could not refuse! Ended up ordering the C-note kit. Even with shipping and exchange rate, it is cheaper than buying drivers/crossover parts alone here, that doesn't count the pre-cut MDF boxes or the ports! So within a month or so, I should be up to a 5.0 system.

                    Will make another build thread for the C-notes, but given the experience I now have building boxes from scratch, I assume that with the knock-down cabinet supplied, these should take me less than a day to build from start to finish, including glue drying time.

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                    • #70
                      Thanks for reporting back, was wondering how you felt about the Amiga/Sunflower CC match. I'll have to give the Amiga's some thought (the speakers I REALLY want to build are even bigger than the Sunflowers, will have to compromise ).

                      As for level matching, I'd suggest using something like this test tone DVD (I've owned an AVR whose built-in test tones bypassed its own LP/HP filters LOL):
                      http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-test-dvd.html

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by rvsixer View Post
                        Thanks for reporting back, was wondering how you felt about the Amiga/Sunflower CC match. I'll have to give the Amiga's some thought (the speakers I REALLY want to build are even bigger than the Sunflowers, will have to compromise ).

                        As for level matching, I'd suggest using something like this test tone DVD (I've owned an AVR whose built-in test tones bypassed its own LP/HP filters LOL):
                        http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-test-dvd.html

                        aah nice thanks for the link! when using test tone DVD...I just insert it into my Xbox and that's it? Do I need to deactivate anything on my Yamaha unit or put it on flat?

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Evan Steeves View Post

                          ...when using test tone DVD...I just insert it into my Xbox and that's it? Do I need to deactivate anything on my Yamaha unit or put it on flat?
                          Use the 5.1 Calibration menu, it will play the test tone for each speaker sequentially for ~10 seconds, adjust each level to match as needed (see previous link on AVR speaker setup). Now that you have a reference point (each speaker level matched), you may find you don't like each level matched perfectly (for instance I like my mains/center/subs at level, and my surrounds -2db from that otherwise I find them overwhelming/distracting).

                          You may also find YPAO did a good job since its sounding good already .

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by rvsixer View Post
                            Use the 5.1 Calibration menu, it will play the test tone for each speaker sequentially for ~10 seconds, adjust each level to match as needed (see previous link on AVR speaker setup). Now that you have a reference point (each speaker level matched), you may find you don't like each level matched perfectly (for instance I like my mains/center/subs at level, and my surrounds -2db from that otherwise I find them overwhelming/distracting).

                            You may also find YPAO did a good job since its sounding good already .

                            i suspect YPAO was relatively on-point. I may have slight fine tuning to do. When I get my rears built, I will have to play with their positioning in my room as I am slightly constricted - need them ot be out of the way, but also properly placed for 5.1 sound. Should I toe them in,directing them towards the listener (central position)? my Amigas are not toed in.

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