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It's time for a Bordeaux!

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  • It's time for a Bordeaux!

    The
    Bordeaux’s
    A collaboration between Curt Campbell and Jim Holtz


    https://flic.kr/p/WGg1YX


    Project Overview:
    The Bordeaux’s were conceived to move another step closer to the best mid-range possible without any sacrifice in overall dynamics when compared to the Statements II’s. An additional goal was to create this level of performance in a smaller cabinet with higher WAF and greater ease of placement. Another goal I had for the project was to build the cabinet in a modular design that allowed the speaker to be moved more easily and with an added benefit of T/M upgradability if my DIY speaker building sickness kicked in again. :-)

    The Specs:
    The Bordeaux’s are based on the following driver compliment;
    • Aurum Cantus AST2560 AMT tweeter
    • Accuton C158 midrange
    • (2) Dayton RS225-8 woofers
    The AST2560 tweeter and Accuton C158 midrange are housed in a separate cabinet which sets on top of a “bass bin” that houses the RS225’s and is secured in place with press fit grill guides. Both the AST2560 and C158 employ open back designs that are tweaked to balance the rear wave of sound with the front wave which provides an expansive sound stage but also retains desirable pinpoint imaging.

    Why these drivers?
    The RS225-8’s have been our go to bass drivers for the last several projects. They provide very clean, tight bass into the low 30’s in a manageable cabinet size with the added plus that they’re affordable.
    The Accuton C158 is a new driver based on Accuton’s latest hybrid system with both a ferrite and neodymium magnet, working in cooperation to achieve linearized BL(x) - and Inductance(x)-curves. This will guarantee a clear and undistorted midrange quality even at high bass loads. Curt urged me to use this driver. He’s an Accuton fan and told me I’d never be happy until I used Accuton as a midrange.
    Finally, I had heard so much positive feedback on the AST2560 that I wanted to give it a try. Bluntly, it’s built like a tank and has accuracy I’d not experienced in a tweeter before.

    Cabinet drawings will be available as I have time and can find a volunteer to create CAD drawings. Everything needed to build the Bordeaux's will be posted on Curt’s website when documentation is done and time permits to present the project in our usual manner. http://speakerdesignworks.com/

    Enjoy the music!

    Jim
    Last edited by Jim Holtz; 07-25-2017, 08:05 AM.

  • #2
    I might take the modular approach on my Seligo as well when I do those. You've given me a bit of aesthetic inspiration with these, so thank you!
    Wolf
    "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
    "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
    "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
    "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

    *InDIYana event website*

    Photobucket pages:
    http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

    My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Wolf View Post
      I might take the modular approach on my Seligo as well when I do those. You've given me a bit of aesthetic inspiration with these, so thank you!
      Wolf
      Hi Wolf,

      Thank you! It's rare when I'm able to give rather than take inspiration from others.

      Honestly, after building these I'm wondering why I didn't do this a long time ago. I'm using Neutrik connectors with Canare 4 wire cable which makes removal or upgrading the top T/M cabinet a snap. The crossover is housed in the base cabinet which has plenty of room and easy access.

      See you Saturday!

      Jim

      Comment


      • #4
        Yeah- I like Speakons too!
        Wolf
        "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
        "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
        "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
        "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

        *InDIYana event website*

        Photobucket pages:
        http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

        My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
        http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

        Comment


        • #5
          Hello

          These look very interesting indeed: how did you come up with the name?

          When I think "Bordeaux" (not that I drink much of it) I think elegant, smooth powerful, refined and long lived - descriptors which certainly apply to your and Curt's speakers designs!

          Cheers

          Geoff

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Geoff Millar View Post
            Hello

            These look very interesting indeed: how did you come up with the name?

            When I think "Bordeaux" (not that I drink much of it) I think elegant, smooth powerful, refined and long lived - descriptors which certainly apply to your and Curt's speakers designs!

            Cheers

            Geoff
            Hi Geoff,

            Your description fit my thinking just perfectly.

            My wife and I both enjoy very nice wine so I've been on a naming kick using the names of wines we enjoy. A fine bordeaux is one of them.

            Thank you for the kind words!

            Jim

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jim Holtz View Post
              https://flic.kr/p/WGg1YX

              The Bordeaux's will be competing in the over $200 open class at MWAF this Saturday.

              Jim
              Jim,

              How did these fare at the MWAF? I'm really curious to try out one of your designs. I'm looking to build a floor stander and my budget is around $1,000+/-.

              Had thought about your other designs as well. My application would be 100% music (no HT use at all).

              Just curious if anyone got a chance to hear these and what were their impressions.

              Thanks,
              D

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by dkalsi View Post

                Jim,

                How did these fare at the MWAF? I'm really curious to try out one of your designs. I'm looking to build a floor stander and my budget is around $1,000+/-.

                Had thought about your other designs as well. My application would be 100% music (no HT use at all).

                Just curious if anyone got a chance to hear these and what were their impressions.

                Thanks,
                D
                Hi D,

                Thank you for your interest. The Bordeaux's didn't place in the top 3 spots. I received the judges forms today and I now see why. They didn't like my cabinets which took a point off when compared to judging only on sound quality.

                Anyway, here are my thoughts regarding the designs Curt and I have developed based on sound quality as the main focus. The two that you should consider are the Bordeaux's or the Statements II's. The differences are not huge by any means. When you get in to really good sounding speakers the differences often fall to personal preference and nuances in the music. How much do you want to hear?

                Statements II; The basic kit cost is $962. The mids are very nice and smooth with excellent detail and a natural sound to vocals that is hard to describe. Highs are great. The ribbons offer a level of shimmer and realism that few if any domes can reproduce. Bass is clean, tight and solid.

                Bordeaux's; The BOM price for the basic components is $1474 including Clarity caps so it is above your projected budget. Bass is the same as the Statements II's. However, the mid-range offers a clarity, refinement and sophistication I've not heard from any driver other than Accuton. The depth and detail is the best I've heard. the AC AST2560 reproduces highs better than anything I've ever used. It is clean, extended and extremely accurate. These are my reference speakers and the best I've ever owned. I hear things on recordings I've owned for years that I didn't know were there.

                Average or poor recordings sound better on the Anthology's than the Statements II or Boreaux's. The mids in the Anthology's are a bit more forgiving than the other two. I'd suggest you also think about your music collection and tastes as you look for a speaker to build.

                I'd welcome feedback from others. I got a lot of questions and positive feedback at MWAF but haven't found any posts since the show. I'd like to hear what folks think.

                HTH

                Jim



                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks for the write up Jim.

                  I don't mind splurging the extra $500 for the Bordeaux - as long as its worth it :-)

                  I'm tired of building small bookshelf speakers from which I am always left wanting more. Instead building a speaker every year, I want my next speaker project to be something I live with at least 3+years. Hence, I remain flexible on what I spend this time around.

                  I hope to take my time with the build and make the speakers look as presentable as possible. I'm also dead set on a floor stander because I have no desire to add subs in the room. I don't have a dedicated music room so which ever speaker I build, it will be utilized in our family room. No TV is allowed in our living room, but no restrictions on a hi-fi music system :-)

                  From your comments above, seems like the Statement IIs are a better value proposition, while the Bordeaux really being the last word in hi-end speaker system

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by dkalsi View Post
                    Thanks for the write up Jim.

                    I don't mind splurging the extra $500 for the Bordeaux - as long as its worth it :-)

                    I'm tired of building small bookshelf speakers from which I am always left wanting more. Instead building a speaker every year, I want my next speaker project to be something I live with at least 3+years. Hence, I remain flexible on what I spend this time around.

                    I hope to take my time with the build and make the speakers look as presentable as possible. I'm also dead set on a floor stander because I have no desire to add subs in the room. I don't have a dedicated music room so which ever speaker I build, it will be utilized in our family room. No TV is allowed in our living room, but no restrictions on a hi-fi music system :-)

                    From your comments above, seems like the Statement IIs are a better value proposition, while the Bordeaux really being the last word in hi-end speaker system
                    The Statements II are an excellent sounding speaker and have been built and enjoyed by many but the Bordeaux's take you a step closer to the original performance, IMHO.

                    I don't know if anyone knows what the last word is but this is the best I've owned and IMHO, the best sound I've heard.Curt is also very proud of them so that says a lot. I have everything but the cabinet drawings completed. Send me an email and I'll send you everything I have.

                    Also, here's a thread at HT Guide with more info; http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...for-a-Bordeaux!

                    Jim

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks Jim -

                      I probably won't build this, but I'm looking at that AC tweeter. Seems like it fits my listening preferences, and the price is actually reasonable.
                      Maybe if y'all move South I'll get to hear the pair....

                      I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
                      "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

                      High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
                      SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
                      My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

                      Tangband W6-sub

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Jim, what would it take to convert the Anthology plans to a modular design like this? Separating the mtm from the bass. Is that just plain crazy talk?? I may be building an Anthology pair soon. I like the aesthetic design possibilities with a stacked speaker.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I had the pleasure of hearing these at DIY Dakota. They sounded awesome in every way. Like Jim said, there is something extra special about the Accuton mids. The AC tweeters were so good you didn't even notice them (that's a good thing). The pair of Daytons hold up the bottom end perfectly. There are better woofers available of course but you would have to spend a lot more and I don't know if they would bring much more to the design other than allowing you to crank it to 11 instead of just 10
                          Craig

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 707kevin View Post
                            Jim, what would it take to convert the Anthology plans to a modular design like this? Separating the mtm from the bass. Is that just plain crazy talk?? I may be building an Anthology pair soon. I like the aesthetic design possibilities with a stacked speaker.

                            Yes, the Anthology cabinet could be split into two modules similar to the Bordeaux's. The bass cabinet would need to remain the same as the Bordeaux's at 22" deep and 29" tall. The top portion would remain unchanged. Overall height would be the same. No change in width for either cabinet.

                            The "Bass BIN" cabinet of the Bordeaux's measures 11 1/2"W x 22"D x 29" H with a 1 1/2" thick front baffle and 3/4" everywhere else. There are (2) windowpane horizontal braces, one located below the top RS225 and one below the bottom RS225 with short windowpane vertical braces from the top of the cabinet to the top brace and from the bottom brace to the bottom of the cabinet. The cabinet is ported with a 3" precision port (tube is cut to 5" plus the inner and outer flares) which provides a F/3 of around 32 Hz.

                            The RS225's are the 8 ohm version and they are wired in parallel.

                            Per Unibox, net volume on the cabinet is about 84 liters less the volume the drivers and the two short vertical braces consume. This is the same net volume as the Anthology's in a different cabinet configuration.

                            In real world use, the bass is extremely clean, tight and extended. F/10 is in the low 20's.

                            Sorry, I don't have CAD drawings yet. I still have to finish the rough drawings before someone can convert them to CAD.

                            Jim

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by PWR RYD View Post
                              I had the pleasure of hearing these at DIY Dakota. They sounded awesome in every way. Like Jim said, there is something extra special about the Accuton mids. The AC tweeters were so good you didn't even notice them (that's a good thing). The pair of Daytons hold up the bottom end perfectly. There are better woofers available of course but you would have to spend a lot more and I don't know if they would bring much more to the design other than allowing you to crank it to 11 instead of just 10
                              Hi Craig,

                              Thank you for the excellent feedback on the Bordeaux's! Your description mimics what I hear. With no disrespect to the Statements II as an option for the critical listener, the Bordeaux's simply take the mid range and top end a step closer to the original performance. I love the detail, depth and accuracy.

                              Thank you again! I hope to see you at Iowa DIY this fall, if there is one.

                              Jim

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