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Hello, and My Second 3-Way

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  • #16
    I have both boxes built and fully assembled now, including the crossovers. I wasn't able to get the additional software to work with Open Office (I don't have Windows Office), so I'm limited to WinPCD for now. The crossover is basically unchanged from before (all 2nd order with some padding). The modeled response using the published specs looks like this (using Win PCD):
    Click image for larger version

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    I'm enjoying the sound of these speakers. They seem pleasing across the audio spectrum.

    I've been listening to:
    Wynton Marsalis Joe Cool's Blues
    Sting Nothing Like the Sun
    Dire Straits Brothers In Arms
    Holly Cole The Best of Holly Cole
    Donald Fagen The Nightfly
    Metallica Black Album
    Adele 25
    Mark Knopfler The Ragpicker's Dream
    ZZ Top Tres Hombres
    The Police Synchronicity
    Grand Funk Railroad Some Kind Of Wonderful (song)
    plus some of Waylon's songs and a small variety of other stuff.

    These speakers seem to do especially well with vocals (both male and female), and brass instruments. Electric and acoustic guitar seem good as well. The bass seems both tight and reasonably strong and it seems to go deep enough for most recordings. I do prefer the sealed bass sound to ported bass even though the latter generally goes deeper.
    They do seem a little harsh on some of the head-banging stuff. A little more tweeter padding largely corrected that, so I added an extra 2 ohms to the tweeter pad. I also added a shorting switch to remove the extra padding when desired. With the extra padding, the modeled response looks like this:

    Click image for larger version

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    For the time being (and since the boxes buttoned up for the time being), I'll probably leave the crossovers alone and just enjoy listening to them for awhile. Should I find something notably lacking, or acquire better tools, I may revisit the crossover.
    I also need to decide how I'm going to finish these. They are fairly large and will probably stay out of the living room, so I'll probably go with something simpler than veneer. Perhaps some sort of texture paint. I may also need to add some grill cloths to keep the grandkids from poking the neat circles.

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    • #17
      I'm looking for a fairly simple way to finish these 1.7 cu. ft. MDF towers. They aren't going to be in a prominent place in the house, so nothing fancy is needed. Something somewhat subdued like a satin or textured paint (in a lighter color).
      I was thinking of using a sanding sealer to seal the MDF edges. Any particular primer that works well over that? How about the final coat? Will some type of latex enamel work well?

      Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Brian B View Post
        With the extra padding, the modeled response looks like this:

        [ATTACH=CONFIG]n1364643[/ATTACH]
        ​Looks like you've got some BSC built in there
        Brian Steele
        www.diysubwoofers.org

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        • #19
          Been listening to these for a few weeks and made another minor padding change to both mid and tweeter. I'm happy with the sound of these three ways so I've removed the drivers and started the cabinet finish. I decided on a cherry veneer and the cabinets have an initial coat of finish. It will probably be a couple of weeks before the finish work is complete and they are back together making music.

          Click image for larger version

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Brian B View Post
            Been listening to these for a few weeks and made another minor padding change to both mid and tweeter.
            I bet you're making up for the exclusion of a BSC in the original XO design.

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            • #21
              With a three way crossed at about 300Hz, there is considerable latitude to adjust the relative level of the midrange to the woofer without adding extra parts to the woofer crossover.

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              • #22
                Please keep in mind - this adjustment to the mid (if done via resistors) will get very hot due to the current. Make sure the resistors are an adequate rating (25w) and have plenty of space around them to dissipate the heat they will generate. This is especially true with a 300-Hz woofer-mid XO point (or at least per your estimates)
                Paul

                The "SB's" build page
                http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...-4-(pic-heavy)

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                • #23
                  Thanks for the reminders. I used 10W resistors, and at least one was doubled up. I also spaced them up slightly off the board. All felt cool to the touch each time I checked them. Perhaps I didn't have the volume cranked up enough .

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Brian B View Post
                    Thanks for the reminders. I used 10W resistors, and at least one was doubled up. I also spaced them up slightly off the board. All felt cool to the touch each time I checked them. Perhaps I didn't have the volume cranked up enough .
                    I had the same experience until I cranked up a pair of 3 ways I gifted, because you never know how they will be abused. They got real hot fairly quick, and they were already doubled up. I now go with 30-50w if they are in series with the mid, if it's crossed low. Nice veneer btw.

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                    • #25
                      Got them finished and back together. I missed listening to them during the finishing process.

                      Click image for larger version

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                      • #26
                        Additional details of this design are posted in the Project Gallery. I named them Lumotas.

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                        • #27
                          I remember my first and 2nd 3 way, I wish I would have taken pics...

                          Simulations can be fun but nothing is better than the real thing.
                          Have you taken any measurements?
                          Guess xmax's age.

                          My guess: 15. His grammar is passable. His trolling is good.

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                          • #28
                            My measuring equipment is nearly non-existent. I have an old Fluke 77, a Shure Beta 57A, a pro audio pre-amp, and a free signal generator app for my tablet. Certainly not sufficient tools for any useful measurements. I have other priorities that pull me away from doing more than about 1 speaker design per year, and I don't see myself investing in reasonably good test equipment for so little use. I'd rather buy more woodworking equipment or make some improvements around the house.

                            I have no doubt that these speakers could be improved by measurements and appropriate crossover changes. But I'm happy with what I'm hearing in my room, so I probably won't do much more with them at this point.

                            Most of the other speakers I listen too are rather old designs, so I don't have much in the way of a reference point for more recent designs. I am currently building a set of Overnight Sensations as a quick acoustic data point. I would have finished them by now, but I'm painting the enclosures and the weather hasn't been warm enough for long enough to complete the painting (outside the house).

                            But I did do a lot of listening and crossover tweaking during the development of the Lumotas. It was interesting how certain changes made some recordings sound better while making other recordings sound worse. It seemed there was no combination that made all recordings sound their best. So the Lumotas now stand as a compromise that makes most of the recordings I listed to (a wide range of rock, pop, country, jazz, and bluegrass) sound reasonably good (to my ears).

                            It would be nice to get another opinion regarding the results, but building another set represents considerable investment and work on someone's part. And they may not consider the final results worth the effort. Especially given the many excellent DIY designs available.

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                            • #29
                              These can give surprisingly accurate results with a tablet

                              https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...droid--390-810
                              Guess xmax's age.

                              My guess: 15. His grammar is passable. His trolling is good.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Thanks for the suggestion. I'll keep an eye out for when they are back in stock.

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