Fun with the new ND Passive's - The Passive Aggressives

[robertf]

I did not find them bright,however ,I need more time with them. I built pair of Helium's a few years ago and have not had time to do a side by side comparison yet.

[djg]

I have PAs, Quarks, and Tyger23's Mariposas, all based on the PE tiny flat pack, although all were scratch built. I thought the PAs were about as good as the Quarks, and both were better than the Mariposas (sorry Tyger).

[Jeff F.]

Would I get decent volume levels at nearfield using an amp rated for 20 watts RMS into 4ohms?

[djg]

20 watts RMS at what distortion %? A hifi amp or a little chip amp rated at 10% distortion and 2 ohms? And a power brick supplying full voltage? I have a SMSL SA-50 and it's fine. Fine as in youtube and Pandora and an occasional audio CD with a nearfield non obsessive compulsive audience.

[Jeff F.]

20 watts RMS at what distortion %? A hifi amp or a little chip amp rated at 10% distortion and 2 ohms? And a power brick supplying full voltage? I have a SMSL SA-50 and it's fine. Fine as in youtube and Pandora and an occasional audio CD with a nearfield non obsessive compulsive audience.

20 watts RMS in 4ohms at less than 1% distortion

[djg]

I think so.

[Fauldsy]

I did not find them bright,however ,I need more time with them. I built pair of Helium's a few years ago and have not had time to do a side by side comparison yet.

Really, really eager to hear detailed feedback regarding the Helium's compared to the PA's!! I am currently trying to figure out which one to go with for my first ever build. I want to know if the passives really make that much difference over a port, since both designs utilise the same woofer and enclosure size.

[djg]

JMHO, The PA built from a kit would be a much easier first build than the Helium. That's a crowded little design. Scott S. mentioned starting with an available full range kit that has the woofer and enclosure. That would help a lot to make a Helium build easier.

Thought I'd seen that kit but can't find it now.

[Fauldsy]

JMHO, The PA built from a kit would be a much easier first build than the Helium. That's a crowded little design. Scott S. mentioned starting with an available full range kit that has the woofer and enclosure. That would help a lot to make a Helium build easier.

Thought I'd seen that kit but can't find it now.

Thank you for your opinion - though the challenge of the build itself doesn't phase me. The hardest part for my brain is actually working out crossovers and enclosure sizes, especially since I use a Mac computer and a lot of the sim software doesn't! Hence why I am encouraged to rely on a tried and tested design, I don't have much issue building to plan.

Plus there is the issue of the fact I am based in the UK. Importing the whole kit is a lot more expensive, than if I were to source the drivers and passives from PE (works out cheaper even with taxes and shipping) and source the equivalent components for the crossover in the UK/Europe - thankfully we are still in the Union

So I am mostly interested in the performance factor. Looking at the frequency response I would guess that the PA is most in favour with my more bassier taste. Though it's extremely hard to tell for sure as the Helium is simulated and the PA is measured, plus real life use can show something different altogether.

[djg]

In your case the Helium would probably work best, fewer U.S. sourced parts, as long as your UK PVC pipe is equivalent or workably similar.

I made the PAs, not from a kit. You can see them earlier in this thread. Very entertaining to watch. I've never heard the Heliums, but comments from speaker get together ear witnesses were very positive.

Also, I do all my listening in a nearfield setting with a sub. IMHO, no speaker this size that I've heard makes the amount of bass I like, including the PAs.

[scottsehlin]

Thank you for your opinion - though the challenge of the build itself doesn't phase me. The hardest part for my brain is actually working out crossovers and enclosure sizes, especially since I use a Mac computer and a lot of the sim software doesn't! Hence why I am encouraged to rely on a tried and tested design, I don't have much issue building to plan.

Plus there is the issue of the fact I am based in the UK. Importing the whole kit is a lot more expensive, than if I were to source the drivers and passives from PE (works out cheaper even with taxes and shipping) and source the equivalent components for the crossover in the UK/Europe - thankfully we are still in the Union

So I am mostly interested in the performance factor. Looking at the frequency response I would guess that the PA is most in favour with my more bassier taste. Though it's extremely hard to tell for sure as the Helium is simulated and the PA is measured, plus real life use can show something different altogether.

The Helium frequency response is a little more representative than a sim. The drivers were measured in the box to get FRD and ZMA values. The only thing simulated in the response graph is the crossover. I have verified that against the actual measured response, but they agree well enough that I didn't see a need to show both. The Helium has full baffle step compensation, so the bass is pretty full (to the extent that a speaker with an F3 in the upper 60's can be "bassy" without being too unbalanced. Like you, I am not sure how the PA's compare as I have not heard them side to side with the Heliums.

[3rutu5]

In your case the Helium would probably work best, fewer U.S. sourced parts, as long as your UK PVC pipe is equivalent or workably similar.

I made the PAs, not from a kit. You can see them earlier in this thread. Very entertaining to watch. I've never heard the Heliums, but comments from speaker get together ear witnesses were very positive.

Also, I do all my listening in a nearfield setting with a sub. IMHO, no speaker this size that I've heard makes the amount of bass I like, including the PAs.

I've been interested to hear that DJG (relating to sub), I feel sometimes people get caught up building something small and don't really push it. I tried the ND65'S and found they don't really suit what I wanted, but another driver people were on the fence about did. I've been afraid to try the ND's bigger brother, especially with such a small box as I also have to import it and the AUD plus taxes and shipping make this experiment quite expensive

I would love to give this a go in a portable application, but would be a bit sad if it didn't have thumpy bass that hits one in the chest

[djg]

I guess the 5 1/4" ND140 has pretty good bass. Curt Campbell's NLA Aviatrix MTM in a MLTL went pretty low.

[Wolf]

But they were tubby! I mean bloated bass. Sealed is really the sweet spot for those.
Wolf

[djg]

Tubby, yikes.