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  • Fishchris
    replied
    *******

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  • Fishchris
    replied
    Hey Dukk, exactly what I'm thinking !
    going to go on and replace my sub channel amp first, since I already have it. But if the problem persists.... Or gets even worse because of the increased power draw, I'm definitely going to consider caps.

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  • Dukk
    replied
    Originally posted by Fishchris View Post
    Well, it "kind of" feels like that to me too.... But I can get the clipping indicator for the sub channel pretty constant red, on continuous bass notes (not that Im trying to do this on a regular basis) with no popping or funky sounds from the amp. Its those short spikes of power that cause the sub to pop.... and on those super fast spikes, its almost hard to see the clipping indicator blink...

    Hey Dukk, so you believe in those stiffening caps, huh ? It feels to me like those would be a good idea too, but you know their is a whole other camp, who believe these are totally worthless, and your money is better spent elsewhere. Hmmm.

    Anyway, I ordered some power cable splitters and hope to be putting in the new amp in the next week. Would love to do that today, but need to give my GF a little attention, after playing with the box build all last week. Have you ever heard that thing, "If momma aint happy, aint nobody happy" ? lol
    Yeah those long low notes are hard on the charging system but pretty easy for the power supply of the amp to deal with. Those drum kicks are dumping all the capacitance out of the onboard caps and letting the power supply drop, starving the outputs and hard clipping them. Difference is like trying to close a heavy barn door by leaning into it or just kicking it. The kick is likely to break something due to its abruptness rather than actually close the door.

    I'm not a huge flag waver for capacitors but they do have their place. For instance, they will not help at all with the continuous bass notes - they just do not have that kind of capacity, but for a high impact hit, that is exactly what they are for. Shady or uneducated sales people are the blame for the huge surge in cap use in the 90s, and the massive crash of it as well. That is why I suggested borrowing some to try. I have 4 or 5 1f caps in my garage. I haven't used them in years but they are handy to have around.

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  • Fishchris
    replied
    Yes, long, long ago πŸ™‚ All 1/0 guage. Looking into an upgraded alternator too. Would prefer a 370 amp.

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  • anunnaki
    replied
    Have you upgraded your power and ground cabling from the alternator to the battery, and battery to chassis ground?

    I would highly recommend it if you have not. From there I would then look at a significant amount of capacitance as previously recommended.

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  • Fishchris
    replied
    Well, it "kind of" feels like that to me too.... But I can get the clipping indicator for the sub channel pretty constant red, on continuous bass notes (not that Im trying to do this on a regular basis) with no popping or funky sounds from the amp. Its those short spikes of power that cause the sub to pop.... and on those super fast spikes, its almost hard to see the clipping indicator blink...

    Hey Dukk, so you believe in those stiffening caps, huh ? It feels to me like those would be a good idea too, but you know their is a whole other camp, who believe these are totally worthless, and your money is better spent elsewhere. Hmmm.

    Anyway, I ordered some power cable splitters and hope to be putting in the new amp in the next week. Would love to do that today, but need to give my GF a little attention, after playing with the box build all last week. Have you ever heard that thing, "If momma aint happy, aint nobody happy" ? lol

    Leave a comment:


  • Dukk
    replied
    Definitely sounds like you are hard clipping the amp on those transient drum hits. Try throwing in the other amp and see if it still has an issue. If so, try borrowing a few (like 4) stiffening caps to try out.

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  • Fishchris
    replied
    Nope. Absolutely guaranteed it's not. You can easily see the sub + the passives flexing ridiculously, like on so many YouTube vids, and no bad sounds or whatsoever.
    then it tries to hit those quick kick drums at high volume, and you start to get some popping.... With literally less than half the excursion. I mean, it's totally obvious.

    ​​​​​​And again, it's totally the same thing the 15"s were doing.... So in retrospect, probably nothing wrong with those either.

    I'm totally convinced at this point, it's not the sub, or PR's.

    So my next step, since it won't cost me anything, is to go on and throw in my new mono amp, and see how that goes.
    And btw, I have loved, and beat the **** out of that RF Power 1000 for 12 long years, but it did start to have some really weird screw ups and shut downs last year, and had to be sent back to Arizona twice.... I think it could be about to give up on me. Glad I have that brand new 2400.1 ready to go πŸ™‚

    At this point, I'm about 95% sure its either, something in my electrical system, which really does need upgrading anyway, OR something funky going on with that amp.... which already started having the weird screw ups last year. I probably should have just replaced it then. But I just love that amp :(
    Last edited by Fishchris; 02-04-2020, 12:54 PM.

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  • wogg
    replied
    Originally posted by Fishchris View Post
    ...
    Now., As for loud.... Well yes, but this where my only issue lies. It can play loud, deep continuous bass notes, but when really beating on it, I was able to cause a few not so nice sounding pops.... Interestingly, on the same sort of kick drums and bass spkies that caused my 15"s to make some kind of funky pops... So I thought that one of the 15" had some voice coil issues... But that's obviously not the case with this brand new 18" sub.... And it couldn't possibly be bottoming out either, as that 20 hz note I played had rediculous excursion, and sounded (felt) beautiful !
    ...
    ​​
    Just because your excursion is good at 20Hz doesn't mean it is good elsewhere. Maybe you're hitting a frequency that is overworking those passives.

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  • Fishchris
    replied
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_03022020_203310_(1200_x_1800_pixel).jpg Views:	0 Size:	677.9 KB ID:	1430994 Alright, so I got it in the truck today, and here's the report....
    Very good ! I'd give it a n 8.5 or 9 out of 10.

    But here's the very surprising, quite interesting thing.... This morning in bed, I was thinking about the stereo, and the thought crossed my mind, "Well if it will only play deep, bass heavy music, so be it. My car is my daily driver anyway, and it sounds super musical, with one beefy little 8" sub" πŸ™‚

    But guess what ? The new 18" sub with PR's sounds amazingly musical ! Even old school stuff without a lot of deep bass sounds great ! Even better than my 10"s did !? Wow ! So pleasantly surprised πŸ™‚

    But yet DEEP ! I mean, crazy deep ! Now what I don't understand is that this sub is supposedly tuned to 30.48 hz, yet I played a sub woofer testing track, which has a continuous 20 hz note, and that truck has never felt a 20 hz note like that ! Yet zero wooshy port noise ? Well duh, it doesn't have any ports πŸ™‚

    Now., As for loud.... Well yes, but this where my only issue lies. It can play loud, deep continuous bass notes, but when really beating on it, I was able to cause a few not so nice sounding pops.... Interestingly, on the same sort of kick drums and bass spkies that caused my 15"s to make some kind of funky pops... So I thought that one of the 15" had some voice coil issues... But that's obviously not the case with this brand new 18" sub.... And it couldn't possibly be bottoming out either, as that 20 hz note I played had rediculous excursion, and sounded (felt) beautiful !

    So the more I thought about it, the more I'm thinking that my electrical system is just not able to produce enough voltage for those kick drum spikes. I mean, yes, of course, I am pushing the amp right to the edge, and getting some flickering of my clipping indicators... But I've done that with this amp for 12 years, and that has never been a problem. The problem seems to be on those quick spikes ?

    Now, I had already decided that I was going to upgrade my alternator + add a few extra batteries, and that's still on my to do list.
    But I'm thinking even before that, I might look into a nice strong capacitor ? Or how about a lithium battery ? What can I add to allow my system to get big, fast spikes of juice when needed ? Hmmm. Your thoughts ?

    Anyway, other than that little issue, I'm super happy with the sound.

    Fits great in the truck too πŸ™‚

    PS, I already have a brand new mono amp in the closet, a 2400.1 Wolfram which will increase the wattage from 965 RMS, to about 1400.... But I'm thinking I should probably address the voltage spike issue first, as the new amp will need even more juice....

    PPS.... About a year and a half ago, I started using a cheaper, lower amperage battery in the truck. It seems to keep the voltage up pretty well, but I'm sure it can't produce as many amps, in a burst, as a stronger, much more expensive battery. At that time I was just running two 10"s, but never noticed a problem. Then switched to those 15"s which started doing that popping on voltage spiking kick drums, and now the same thing with this 18" ?





    ​​

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  • Chad2
    replied
    That is awesome work I love skar they make very good and deep sounding subs

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  • STIchris722
    replied
    It looks fancy. Good work! Update us on the SQ!

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  • Fishchris
    replied
    Well, it's basically a done deal. Just waiting for the bedliner finish to dry. I'm pretty happy with it. The seams and screw divots didn't come out 100% invisible, but you do have to look really close to see them.

    I'm exhausted from driving most of the night.... So I'm going to wait until after a good night of sleep to take it out and beat on it a little. Will be back to give a performance report πŸ™‚
    Attached Files

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  • Fishchris
    replied
    Hey isn't it kind of ironic, that my 18" sub is going to be producing the bass in the 45-80 hz range, while the smaller 15" PR's are going to be making all the deepest bass in the 30hz range ?

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  • Fishchris
    replied
    You can kind of see the bracing in this shot. Solid as a rock πŸ™‚
    Attached Files

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