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Levitation TM's completed BC25SG15/FW168

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  • Levitation TM's completed BC25SG15/FW168



    To test how the FW168 would sound with a different tweeter than the SB29RDCN I decided to combine it with a dome tweeter for the surrounds I built for my HT setup. My list price target was to keep the driver cost to below $150.00 in drivers for the pair. I built the enclosures out of old Yamaha speaker cabs I bought off of Ebay for $25.00 and some cherry wood boards that I bought for $20.00 again off Ebay. I have a BoM made up at work as well as a baffle layout that I'll add tomorrow but total cost drivers and crossover parts is around $220.00.

    So what do you get for your $220.00 spent? Well it's a 10 liter bookshelf speaker that measures very close to the simulated FR below. To Quote Mike Z from today's listening session when he found out they'll be used for surround duty "That's a Damn Shame that's what that is". I think they're a great sounding speaker that can be built on a decent budget so hopefully others will give them a try.

    Comments from Midwest Audio fest judges:
    3. Fairly big sound from a little box, Good depth and imaging, Nice balance.
    2. Vocals were very nice, Pretty good bass for a little speaker, Seemed a little bright on the top end.
    1. Nice sound, sounds bigger than they are, Very good.
















    Take it easy
    Jay
    Last edited by Brewski; 08-11-2011, 12:01 PM. Reason: Updated with MWAF comments
    "I like Brewski's threads, they always end up being hybrid beer/speaker threads based on the name of his newest creation." - Greywarden

    Breakfast Stout - HiVi RT2 II/Aurasound NS6
    Imperial Russian Stout - Vifa DX25/Fountek FW146/(2) Fountek FW168s - Built by Fastbike
    Ruination 2.5 way - Vifa DX25/Fountek FW168
    Levitation TM
    - Vifa BC25SG15/Fountek FW168

  • #2
    Re: Levitation TM's completed BC25SG15/FW168

    Very nice speakers and write up! Cheers!
    Tim

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Levitation TM's completed BC25SG15/FW168

      Another sweet job Jay. Well done.
      I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now.
      OS MTMs http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=220388
      Swope TM http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=221818
      Econowave and Audio Nirvana AN10 fullrange http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=216841
      Imperial Russian Stouts http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...=1#post1840444
      LECBOS. http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...ghlight=lecbos

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Levitation TM's completed BC25SG15/FW168

        Thanks to Jay for luggin' em down to me casa for a listen today.

        I will say they are devastating for very short money. Musical, with great dynamic impact and strong overall bass even if it does miss the bottom octave.

        I did expect them to be a bedroom speaker, or at least a kids room, but it is a dang shame they are sitting as surrounds. They meet my 10x rule and would hang with anything $1500-$2000 in the 6" bookshelf world.

        They resolve plenty of information, and the little vifa tweeter is a real mind-blower. Smooth and extended.

        More importantly they represent everything this hobby is about. Jay took a pair of old, beat up speakers, and required the cabinets to a usable form, added high WAF with the baffles, and they sound great!

        What's "wrong" with them? Nothing. I really think Jay balanced his compromises well and for every flaw, there are two strengths. Well done.

        Here are the measurements:

        https://picasaweb.google.com/OSAcous...KiotaLk_rXhwE#
        .

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Levitation TM's completed BC25SG15/FW168

          Thanks for the comments guys... I told Mike while I was down his way, after he told me his listening impressions, that I'm thinking five of these could make for a really nice HT setup with a sub. Plus turn the sub off and you've got pretty sweet speakers for music.

          If it wasn't for the fact I'm going to rev the Ruinations these would become my mains. Note: They will be my mains till the DX25 ruinations are ready...

          Mike, thanks for posting and hosting the measurements.

          Take it easy
          Jay
          "I like Brewski's threads, they always end up being hybrid beer/speaker threads based on the name of his newest creation." - Greywarden

          Breakfast Stout - HiVi RT2 II/Aurasound NS6
          Imperial Russian Stout - Vifa DX25/Fountek FW146/(2) Fountek FW168s - Built by Fastbike
          Ruination 2.5 way - Vifa DX25/Fountek FW168
          Levitation TM
          - Vifa BC25SG15/Fountek FW168

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Levitation TM's completed BC25SG15/FW168

            The Dali/Vifa buyout tweeter I used in Driscoll is a virtual drop in for this one. In fact, I have the BC25SG15 sitting on the shelf, and they measured identical. You just have to shake your head at what less than $15 can buy these days.

            Nicely done.
            Don't listen to me - I have not sold any $150,000 speakers.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Levitation TM's completed BC25SG15/FW168

              Here's the additional files I have saved for the speakers in case anyone wants to build them. I'll also try to get an internal shot since it was suggested I snag a picture with the the driver out of the way.

              Take it easy
              Jay
              Attached Files
              "I like Brewski's threads, they always end up being hybrid beer/speaker threads based on the name of his newest creation." - Greywarden

              Breakfast Stout - HiVi RT2 II/Aurasound NS6
              Imperial Russian Stout - Vifa DX25/Fountek FW146/(2) Fountek FW168s - Built by Fastbike
              Ruination 2.5 way - Vifa DX25/Fountek FW168
              Levitation TM
              - Vifa BC25SG15/Fountek FW168

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Levitation TM's completed BC25SG15/FW168

                Have you noticed any real change with and without the LCR trap on the tweeter?
                Don't listen to me - I have not sold any $150,000 speakers.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Levitation TM's completed BC25SG15/FW168

                  Originally posted by johnnyrichards View Post
                  Have you noticed any real change with and without the LCR trap on the tweeter?
                  Johnny,

                  In the sims it looked border line if it was going to be needed or not. Since I'm taking them to Dayton I figured I'd go ahead and build with the LCR in place but in the sims without the LCR the null when reversing tweeter polarity still looks very close to being the same so I figured I'd post the BoM up as price with and without in case someone wanted to try them without the LCR. That way if they felt the tweeter was straining they then have the values needed for the LCR I used.

                  Also because it might get asked If the baffles were made taller the trimming of the tweeter face plate might not be needed. If you want to go this route I'd keep the tweeters offset from the side and top of the baffle at 2.75" to avoid needing to make changes to the crossover. Cabinet size wise if they were made in a 14L enclosure or .5 cubic feet They'd deliver more bass but I was trying to keep them smaller for my purposes.

                  Take it easy
                  Jay
                  Last edited by Brewski; 05-02-2011, 10:47 AM.
                  "I like Brewski's threads, they always end up being hybrid beer/speaker threads based on the name of his newest creation." - Greywarden

                  Breakfast Stout - HiVi RT2 II/Aurasound NS6
                  Imperial Russian Stout - Vifa DX25/Fountek FW146/(2) Fountek FW168s - Built by Fastbike
                  Ruination 2.5 way - Vifa DX25/Fountek FW168
                  Levitation TM
                  - Vifa BC25SG15/Fountek FW168

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Levitation TM's completed BC25SG15/FW168

                    Hmm This was responding to Fastbike's post but I'm not sure where it went?

                    I'm going to need to add an attachment in a min but the additional components LCR that your seeing of 22uF, 5.6 Ohms, .70 mH is there to flatten the tweeters impedance at it's FS. If you try pushing a tweeter too low you'll hear it start to strain and certain tones can become congested as if the singer had a cold etc... In the attachment the tweeters impedance would normally follow the blue path but with the LCR in place the impedance is following the teal instead.

                    The Tweeter's FS in this case is around ~1250 Hz. The tweeter is crossing that point about 15 db's below where the speaker is normally operating. Even though I'm using a steep crossover (1700 Bessel 4th order) acoustically I was concerned that this could be too close to the tweeter's FS so I added an LCR just in case being that close to the FS would cause a problem.

                    In the sims it looks like it may be ok without an LCR and from talking (or rather board posting) with Johnny and reading Lou's posts on the tweeter I think it may work without it but for the added parts I didn't want to regret not having it if the speaker did something wrong at Dayton.

                    Take it easy
                    Jay
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by Brewski; 05-02-2011, 12:48 PM. Reason: responding to Fastbike's post but I'm not sure where it went?
                    "I like Brewski's threads, they always end up being hybrid beer/speaker threads based on the name of his newest creation." - Greywarden

                    Breakfast Stout - HiVi RT2 II/Aurasound NS6
                    Imperial Russian Stout - Vifa DX25/Fountek FW146/(2) Fountek FW168s - Built by Fastbike
                    Ruination 2.5 way - Vifa DX25/Fountek FW168
                    Levitation TM
                    - Vifa BC25SG15/Fountek FW168

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Levitation TM's completed BC25SG15/FW168

                      Originally posted by johnnyrichards View Post
                      The Dali/Vifa buyout tweeter I used in Driscoll is a virtual drop in for this one. In fact, I have the BC25SG15 sitting on the shelf, and they measured identical. You just have to shake your head at what less than $15 can buy these days.

                      Nicely done.
                      That tweeter represents a HUGE value. Diamond in the rough. It has all the resoultion of a $40 or $50 tweeter without the grain or harshness less expensive tweeters tend exhibit. They also do not go the oppsite direction which is soft and rounded sounding. I will likely use them in designs in the future. It is like 1/2 way beteen a silkie, and an SB19.
                      .

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Levitation TM's completed BC25SG15/FW168

                        Originally posted by mzisserson View Post
                        That tweeter represents a HUGE value. Diamond in the rough. It has all the resoultion of a $40 or $50 tweeter without the grain or harshness less expensive tweeters tend exhibit. They also do not go the oppsite direction which is soft and rounded sounding. I will likely use them in designs in the future. It is like 1/2 way beteen a silkie, and an SB19.
                        I too have discovered what a great value they are ... for $14, they sound fantastic!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Levitation TM's completed BC25SG15/FW168

                          Jay -- I have been wondering for days what the light stripe on your baffles is for. I was about to post a question, and then it occurred to me that maybe it represents the head of foam on a glass of ale?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Levitation TM's completed BC25SG15/FW168

                            Originally posted by 50 watt head View Post
                            Jay -- I have been wondering for days what the light stripe on your baffles is for. I was about to post a question, and then it occurred to me that maybe it represents the head of foam on a glass of ale?
                            No although I do like your thinking I'm going to have to keep my eye on ebay auctions for larger pieces of cherry with sap wood in it....

                            When I bought the lot off of Ebay one of the boards had a large strip of sap wood. The other board board had a very small strip of white (sap wood I think). I'd decided I'd like to somewhat book match the small stripes. I then tore out one of the round overs with the smaller stripe so I ended up using the other board with the larger stripe and decided to make the best of a bad situation by some what book matching them. My wife loves the stripe though so it's not all bad.

                            I do love the idea of the white being the head of beer so I'll have to keep my eyes open to see if I could make that happen.

                            Take it easy
                            Jay
                            Last edited by Brewski; 05-02-2011, 11:19 PM.
                            "I like Brewski's threads, they always end up being hybrid beer/speaker threads based on the name of his newest creation." - Greywarden

                            Breakfast Stout - HiVi RT2 II/Aurasound NS6
                            Imperial Russian Stout - Vifa DX25/Fountek FW146/(2) Fountek FW168s - Built by Fastbike
                            Ruination 2.5 way - Vifa DX25/Fountek FW168
                            Levitation TM
                            - Vifa BC25SG15/Fountek FW168

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Levitation TM's completed BC25SG15/FW168

                              These looks great! Do you happen to have a picture of the xo's?

                              Comment

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