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Original Large Advent upgrade with Dayton drivers

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  • #16
    Re: Original Large Advent upgrade with Dayton drivers

    Originally posted by leesonic View Post
    Like this?

    Yup, EXCEPT on the BP, instead of series/shunt/series/shunt (for the caps & coils) I modeled it with the series cap & series coil FIRST (either of those can come before the other - they're in series - so THAT doesn't matter),

    (hmmm . . . I also see that you flopped the 2 coils around - the series coil is the 0.50mH, the shunt (to gnd) coil is the 2.0mH)

    THEN

    the 3 "shunt" legs to ground: cap, coil, & Zobel. THEIR order doesn't matter either - as they're all in parallel with each other

    BUT they have to follow the 2 series elements or the response will be affected.

    Notes: poly caps probably just for the 6.8 & 18 uF on the tweeter, otherwise the cheap npes.

    I don't bother with the "Dayton Audio Grade"s, I just use the 0.50c cheap 10w wirewound resistors - they all measure the same. The $1.25 ones DO have a gold plating that falls off when you make a sharp bend in the leads - if you go for that sort of thing.

    For coils: follow any "DCR" (DC resistance) or ohms (n) notation I might have made for any in series (DCR of shunt coils usually don't matter, so the smaller/cheaper the better - like the 2mH shunt coil on the bandpass, use a #20 with the 1.2n DCR - it'll be fine). I THINK that means a #18 for the BP 0.50mH. Your mid is the least sensitive driver, so if you used a #20 here, you'd cut its output even more (not by much, but let's not, anyway). And use the ERSE? "I-Core" for the 8.0mH in the low pass, 0.5n.

    Chris

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Original Large Advent upgrade with Dayton drivers

      Great job on the redo Lee!! I've recently redone two pair of the LA's (new foam surround and xover components) with new veneers (the old vinyl style cabinets) and was amazed how good they sound for their age. Redid some AR2ax also but I liked the LA's better. I like the contrast of the light colored baffle. Keep posting pics.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Original Large Advent upgrade with Dayton drivers

        Lee those look great! I'm sure with Chris' XO they'll sound great too. Do you plan to use a grill on them?

        My dad has a quad of old Sansui kabuki style speakers with awesome cabinets but they have horrendous looking wooden lattice grills and sound to match. He's mentioned giving them to me on several occasions. If I get them I plan to do something very similiar to yours, including new grills. Of course I don't know if I could tell him what I had planned for them. He would think it was heresy, lol.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Original Large Advent upgrade with Dayton drivers

          Like this then?



          As for grills, I planned on making a frame out of the quarter round stuff you get at Home Depot, and covering it in Burlap material. I already bought this, it smells weird and looks like sack cloth. But I don't like running speakers with grills, so I might not bother.

          Lee.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Original Large Advent upgrade with Dayton drivers

            Originally posted by leesonic View Post
            Like this then?



            As for grills, I planned on making a frame out of the quarter round stuff you get at Home Depot, and covering it in Burlap material. I already bought this, it smells weird and looks like sack cloth. But I don't like running speakers with grills, so I might not bother.

            Lee.

            .
            But don't buy anything yet, I'm going to look at something.

            GOTO post from 11-19-2011 01:59pm for latest XO recommendation - cj
            Attached Files
            Last edited by Chris Roemer; 11-19-2011, 10:44 PM.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Original Large Advent upgrade with Dayton drivers

              Originally posted by Chris Roemer View Post
              .
              But don't buy anything yet, I'm going to look at something.
              Maybe something to make it cheaper? I just did some price checking from both Parts Express and Erse Audio, and they're $99 and $85 respectively for crossover components.

              I have four old crossovers lying around (2 generic, 2 pulled from speakers), I wish I had an LCR meter to find out the values of the inductors, that's the biggest cost.

              This was supposed to be a budget build, but it's getting more expensive. That said, I hate doing a bad job with anything I do, so I might have to sell some stuff and order the bits for whatever you come up with.

              Let me see if anyone has anything over on the classifieds section...

              Lee.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Original Large Advent upgrade with Dayton drivers

                Originally posted by leesonic View Post
                Maybe something to make it cheaper? I just did some price checking from both Parts Express and Erse Audio, and they're $99 and $85 respectively for crossover components.

                I have four old crossovers lying around (2 generic, 2 pulled from speakers), I wish I had an LCR meter to find out the values of the inductors, that's the biggest cost.

                This was supposed to be a budget build, but it's getting more expensive. That said, I hate doing a bad job with anything I do, so I might have to sell some stuff and order the bits for whatever you come up with.

                Let me see if anyone has anything over on the classifieds section...

                Lee.
                Yeah, problem with 3-ways is that component count DOUBLES since the band pass is a high pass AND a low pass. THEN, the low cross pt. between the woofer and mid needs high value parts, and those big coils can be killers.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Original Large Advent upgrade with Dayton drivers

                  Originally posted by Chris Roemer View Post
                  Yup, EXCEPT on the BP, instead of series/shunt/series/shunt (for the caps & coils) I modeled it with the series cap & series coil FIRST (either of those can come before the other - they're in series - so THAT doesn't matter),

                  (hmmm . . . I also see that you flopped the 2 coils around - the series coil is the 0.50mH, the shunt (to gnd) coil is the 2.0mH)

                  THEN

                  the 3 "shunt" legs to ground: cap, coil, & Zobel. THEIR order doesn't matter either - as they're all in parallel with each other

                  BUT they have to follow the 2 series elements or the response will be affected.

                  Notes: poly caps probably just for the 6.8 & 18 uF on the tweeter, otherwise the cheap npes.

                  I don't bother with the "Dayton Audio Grade"s, I just use the 0.50c cheap 10w wirewound resistors - they all measure the same. The $1.25 ones DO have a gold plating that falls off when you make a sharp bend in the leads - if you go for that sort of thing.

                  For coils: follow any "DCR" (DC resistance) or ohms (n) notation I might have made for any in series (DCR of shunt coils usually don't matter, so the smaller/cheaper the better - like the 2mH shunt coil on the bandpass, use a #20 with the 1.2n DCR - it'll be fine). I THINK that means a #18 for the BP 0.50mH. Your mid is the least sensitive driver, so if you used a #20 here, you'd cut its output even more (not by much, but let's not, anyway). And use the ERSE? "I-Core" for the 8.0mH in the low pass, 0.5n.

                  Chris
                  OK - probaby my last update unless you've got ?'s

                  If you used foil caps and coils the pair of XOs would run $1900, so $90 seem like a bargain to me, anyway . . .

                  I fiddled around a bit, and revised things slightly. This will save a lit'l money, but gives you a slight gain in sensitivity, AND gives you a slightly flatter response.

                  For the most part, the XO stands: same driver polarity (- on tweet and mid), same parts count, SAME tweeter L-pad, same Zobel on mid, exact same LP on woofer (sorry about that $17 coil).

                  What I've changed - 2 things:

                  HP - still 3rd order, but instead of 6.8uF cap, 0.30mH shunt coil, 18uF cap,
                  GO WITH 8uF npe cap, 0.25mH shunt coil, 22uF npe cap.
                  Using npe's instead of pp caps can save almost $20, and it's just a "Silky".

                  BP - changing laydown order and a few specs slightly
                  instead of 50 series cap, then .50 series coil, THEN 2mh shunt coil, 8uF shunt cap
                  GO WITH: 0.40mH series coil, THEN 8uF SHUNT cap, then 50uF series cap, THEN 2.0mH shunt coil (then Zobel)

                  I get about $75 from PE.

                  Chris

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Original Large Advent upgrade with Dayton drivers

                    Cool , thanks for posting
                    Big fat monkey coffins are back in style.
                    I like the BAMTW look with the baffle

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Original Large Advent upgrade with Dayton drivers

                      those wisconsin guys are so generous.
                      " To me, the soundstage presentation is more about phase and distortion and less about size. However, when you talk about bass extension, there's no replacement for displacement". Tyger23. 4.2015

                      Quote Originally Posted by hongrn. Oct 2014
                      Do you realize that being an American is like winning the biggest jackpot ever??

                      http://www.midwestaudioclub.com/spot...owell-simpson/
                      http://s413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/arlis/

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Original Large Advent upgrade with Dayton drivers

                        Originally posted by Chris Roemer View Post
                        OK - probaby my last update unless you've got ?'s

                        If you used foil caps and coils the pair of XOs would run $1900, so $90 seem like a bargain to me, anyway . . .
                        Yeah, I know, I'm not trying to sound cheap. I'll probably use polys on the tweeter as per your original recommendation, they're not the expensive part.

                        Originally posted by Chris Roemer View Post
                        I fiddled around a bit, and revised things slightly. This will save a lit'l money, but gives you a slight gain in sensitivity, AND gives you a slightly flatter response.
                        So it should look like this now :



                        Lee.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Original Large Advent upgrade with Dayton drivers

                          Originally posted by leesonic View Post
                          Yeah, I know, I'm not trying to sound cheap. I'll probably use polys on the tweeter as per your original recommendation, they're not the expensive part.



                          So it should look like this now :



                          Lee.

                          Looks great. I tried dropping that 8mH coil down to a 7, but just ddn't like the way it looked.

                          chrsi

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Original Large Advent upgrade with Dayton drivers

                            With regards to the midrange enclosure, needed as the Dayton 4" woofer isn't closed back, is there a minimum size I need to make it? My JBLs and Infinities have what looks like a piece of cardboard tube glued to the back of the baffle, with a round piece of wood glued in the end to close it off. I wish I could find something similar, as at the moment, I'm going to have to cut out and make a little box to go there.

                            Lee.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Original Large Advent upgrade with Dayton drivers

                              Originally posted by leesonic View Post
                              With regards to the midrange enclosure, needed as the Dayton 4" woofer isn't closed back, is there a minimum size I need to make it? My JBLs and Infinities have what looks like a piece of cardboard tube glued to the back of the baffle, with a round piece of wood glued in the end to close it off. I wish I could find something similar, as at the moment, I'm going to have to cut out and make a little box to go there.

                              Lee.
                              You have something similar with a length of PVC and a hot glue gun Don't forget to stuff it with some fiberglass or something!
                              Don't listen to me - I have not sold any $150,000 speakers.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Original Large Advent upgrade with Dayton drivers

                                Originally posted by johnnyrichards View Post
                                You have something similar with a length of PVC and a hot glue gun Don't forget to stuff it with some fiberglass or something!
                                or run the PVC from front to rear, so the rear of the box seals it off....you've got the benefit of the enclosure, AND a pretty stiff baffle brace....I'd probably look for a 4" to 2" reducer, and then run 2" PVC to the back of the cab, and stuff the 2" with fiberglass, and the 4" reducer with polyfill.

                                size, depends on what you want to do for the crossover...~2-2.3L will give you a Q of the system for the midbass in the .71-.75 range, before stuffing. 1L gets you a system Q of .97 and a 1db rise centered about 200hz...1/2L gives a Q of 1.3, and a 3db peak at 220hz...

                                this may allow the use of smaller xover components depending on desired xover frequency to counteract the rising response on the low end, similar to Johnny's findings when using the GRS sealed back midrange. With it's very high Q and rising response near the Fs, coupling it with a small, 6uf cap gives near flat response with a close to 4th order rolloff at ~800hz...

                                Comment

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