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TARGAS - RS150 and Tangband 28-537 TM

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  • TARGAS - RS150 and Tangband 28-537 TM

    After my last budget build, I had a bit more confidence, and wanted to tackle a slightly more expensive design with low distortion. I wanted about a .5 cube bookshelf system for bedroom use, and quickly settled on the RS150 for bass-mid duties. For some reason I chose the RS150-4, thinking it would have better efficiency - still learning about some of this stuff. I asked around for the best $25-30 tweeter, and guys kept responding with "well this one's a bit better". I talked myself into the Tangband 28-537SH tweeter. I spent $45 on it - but in retrospect, I probably should have gone with the venerable RS28 at that price. Still, the Tangband is a very nice dome tweeter - no regrets.


    I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
    "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

    High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
    SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
    My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

    Tangband W6-sub

  • #2
    Re: TARGAS - RS150 and Tangband 28-537 TM

    The box was 1/2 inch Lowes ply - "Accuply", if I remember correctly. Nice stuff, Layers all the same thickness, no voids, good density. Lots better than the birch or oak faced ply that I have used on previous builds. Edges cut very clean with my 60 tooth carbide tipped blade. Glued 1/2 inch by 1 inch runners on the inside front to attach the removable baffle. Baffles were just 2 layers of the 1/2 inch ply - perfect thickness for this build. I found the great program "Cutlist" and laid out a perfect pattern on one 2x4 foot plywood sheet. Too bad I didn't "quite" follow it, and needed extra. As usual, "live and learn".





    I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
    "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

    High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
    SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
    My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

    Tangband W6-sub

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: TARGAS - RS150 and Tangband 28-537 TM

      In any case, the crossover came together pretty quickly in PCD - a standard 2nd order LR on the woofer, standard 3rd order on the tweeter. For a while I tried listening to that, and found that for rock and folk, it sounded fine, but massed vocals on Mozart's Requiem sounded a bit muddy, so I added a LCR trap for the woofer breakup. After listening a few weeks, ordered some mills resistors for the tweeter. Not sure at all it really made a difference, but they are great components. These are measured responses which were reimported into PCD, so the level is a bit low.

      OCT 2012 update/
      Um, that was a good try, but I messed up the BSC, the correct crossover is just below. Read more for the details...
      Big change is that I went 3rd order on the woofer, and so did not need the trap for the breakup.



      Attached Files
      Last edited by donradick; 10-08-2012, 11:44 AM. Reason: crossover updated

      I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
      "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

      High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
      SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
      My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

      Tangband W6-sub

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: TARGAS - RS150 and Tangband 28-537 TM

        sweet build. are they ported?
        " To me, the soundstage presentation is more about phase and distortion and less about size. However, when you talk about bass extension, there's no replacement for displacement". Tyger23. 4.2015

        Quote Originally Posted by hongrn. Oct 2014
        Do you realize that being an American is like winning the biggest jackpot ever??

        http://www.midwestaudioclub.com/spot...owell-simpson/
        http://s413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/arlis/

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: TARGAS - RS150 and Tangband 28-537 TM

          Normally out-of-bandwidth resonance notches are easier and better with an LCR or even LC shunt. Something like 0.025-0.1mH and 5-20uF is the ballpark range. So- it would be cheaper with those components too.

          Just a thought,
          Wolf
          "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
          "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
          "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
          "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

          *InDIYana event website*

          Photobucket pages:
          http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

          My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: TARGAS - RS150 and Tangband 28-537 TM

            I spent quite a while tuning the trap, and now finally understand that LC sets the trap frequency, and the resistor sets the depth. Regardless, I did a number of measurements with various values to suppress the breakup as completely as possible. Not really any better than anyone else, but I enjoyed the effort, and I'm satisfied that I did the best I could with that topology.




            I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
            "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

            High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
            SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
            My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

            Tangband W6-sub

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: TARGAS - RS150 and Tangband 28-537 TM

              I also took my first distortion measurements. the guys said that the bass distortion looked funny, but the tweeter distortion is very low.


              I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
              "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

              High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
              SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
              My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

              Tangband W6-sub

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: TARGAS - RS150 and Tangband 28-537 TM

                I also wanted to up the quality of my crossover construction, and picked up some euro style terminal blocks from Rat Shack. Routed all the leads to the underside, and connected it all up. Not very "clean" underneath, but hey, maybe next time. I found that the crossover fit perfectly under the foam "ribs", so I added some press on felt pads on the bottom and called it done.






                I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
                "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

                High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
                SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
                My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

                Tangband W6-sub

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: TARGAS - RS150 and Tangband 28-537 TM

                  This was also my first attempt at veneering. I chose quarter-sawn maple - I just couldn't justify the price for curly maple. Thanks to "my man" LouC, I went with odorless TitanDX contact cement. Wow - great stuff. Trimming the veneer was really not that hard, but I did experience what "tear-out" means. Oh well, still looks great and I am very happy with the final product. Finished the sides and top with clear Deft lacquer, and the baffle with rattle-can oiled bronze. The back is plain black satin.






                  I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
                  "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

                  High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
                  SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
                  My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

                  Tangband W6-sub

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: TARGAS - RS150 and Tangband 28-537 TM

                    Originally posted by donradick View Post
                    Minus the screws on the baffle- I really like the look of these too!
                    Funny how you offset the port to accomodate your bracing. ;)
                    That is a great tweeter.
                    Later,
                    Wolf
                    "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                    "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                    "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                    "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                    *InDIYana event website*

                    Photobucket pages:
                    http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                    My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: TARGAS - RS150 and Tangband 28-537 TM

                      Final measured response is +- 2dB from 50 to 20K, with a measured 27dB reverse null. They sound beautiful, with great bass, wonderful mid range clarity, and crystal clear highs. You can hear the background singers take a breath.

                      Here is the measured reverse null - about 30dB - woohoo!:


                      Here is the measured FR with close miked woofer and port output:


                      I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
                      "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

                      High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
                      SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
                      My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

                      Tangband W6-sub

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: TARGAS - RS150 and Tangband 28-537 TM

                        Once again, guys - thanks for all your support and technical assistance. Much appreciated - I am exceeding what I ever thought I could accomplish.


                        I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
                        "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

                        High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
                        SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
                        My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

                        Tangband W6-sub

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: TARGAS - RS150 and Tangband 28-537 TM

                          Originally posted by [email protected] View Post
                          sweet build. are they ported?
                          Thanks Arlis - somehow I forgot to save the Unibox model. Here's the Response Modeler box part. Ported - 2 inch about 6 inches long. Predicted F3 of 46 Hz:


                          I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
                          "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

                          High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
                          SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
                          My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

                          Tangband W6-sub

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: TARGAS - RS150 and Tangband 28-537 TM

                            Originally posted by donradick View Post
                            This was also my first attempt at veneering. I chose quarter-sawn maple - I just couldn't justify the price for curly maple. Thanks to "my man" LouC, I went with odorless TitanDX contact cement. Wow - great stuff. Trimming the veneer was really not that hard, but I did experience what "tear-out" means. Oh well, still looks great and I am very happy with the final product. Finished the sides and top with clear Deft lacquer, and the baffle with rattle-can oiled bronze. The back is plain black satin.
                            Well whatever you "tore out" must be on the sides you didn't show us!;)
                            I think you did the right finish, maple is very hard to stain consistently. The Deft is pretty bullet proof too. Now you won't be afraid of veneer no more!
                            (I think it's easier, quicker and competitive with painting.) Look nice from here.
                            Lou's Speaker Site [speakers.lonesaguaro.com]
                            "Different" is objective, "better" is subjective. Taste is not a provable fact.
                            Where are you John Galt? I may not be worthy, but I'm ready.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: TARGAS - RS150 and Tangband 28-537 TM

                              Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                              Normally out-of-bandwidth resonance notches are easier and better with an LCR or even LC shunt. Something like 0.025-0.1mH and 5-20uF is the ballpark range. So- it would be cheaper with those components too.

                              Just a thought,
                              Wolf
                              Oh [email protected]! I did it wrong?
                              I think PCD calls that a parallel LCR, and it's what most guys use for the RS breakup. I value your experience highly - should I have used a series LCR trap?

                              I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
                              "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

                              High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
                              SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
                              My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

                              Tangband W6-sub

                              Comment

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