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  • ER18 buld (ribbon tweets)

    I'll put this build thread in the right spot this time :p

    So I'm finally beginning this build that I've the components for since last August! Started yesterday. So far I have the panels cut and the dados I can do w/ my router table cut in. Can't work at these again till Friday, but I hope between Friday eve and working on them all day Saturday I might be able to have the cabinets glued up.

    I'm going to use solid 3/4" cherry for the front baffle. Very excited to hear these and finish them! I also have it in the works to do a sound off at Meniscus using these and the Statements I built (think I'll bring my Tritrix as well just cuz!). They have a much better environment, better equipment and they'll be able to explain the differences w/ a lot better detail than I'll be able to. I know there's a few guys waiting for that review so I'm trying to pump these out. I'll post many updates as progress continues.

    What I have done so far...

    Panels cut.



    Outer dados (rabbets) done. Still have to do the dados for the bracing w/ an edge guide and my freehand router.



    Speaker layout and bracing dados all mapped out.

    "The ability of any system to produce exceptional sound will be limited mainly by the capability of the speakers" Jim Salk
    "Audio is surely a journey full of revelations as you go" JasonP

  • #2
    Re: ER18 buld (ribbon tweets)

    Wow Matt, what a great surprise to see your post! The opportunity to do a side by side comparison at Meniscus is great. While I can't wait to hear the results I also think you should build at the pace you are comfortable with.

    Those of us that are subscribed to your thread will wait patiently and respectfully while you work your magic. Looks like you have a great start already. What are you using for the rest of the cabinets to compliment the solid charry baffles?

    BTW, I received an email from a buyer of my Vandersteens this morning. He spent a couple hours auditioning them last weekend, wants them and is bringing cash on Sunday. This frees up room for the Statements and provides funds for an ER18 build. Oops, here I go counting my chickens.....
    If life were fair, Elvis would still be alive today and all the impersonators would be dead.
    ~ Johnny Carson

    Bungelow Ed's Photo Album http://techtalk.parts-express.com/album.php?u=8594

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: ER18 buld (ribbon tweets)

      Originally posted by bungelow_ed View Post
      Wow Matt, what a great surprise to see your post! The opportunity to do a side by side comparison at Meniscus is great. While I can't wait to hear the results I also think you should build at the pace you are comfortable with.

      Those of us that are subscribed to your thread will wait patiently and respectfully while you work your magic. Looks like you have a great start already. What are you using for the rest of the cabinets to compliment the solid charry baffles?

      BTW, I received an email from a buyer of my Vandersteens this morning. He spent a couple hours auditioning them last weekend, wants them and is bringing cash on Sunday. This frees up room for the Statements and provides funds for an ER18 build. Oops, here I go counting my chickens.....
      I probably worded the baffle part wrong. The main cabinet construction will be entirely out of MDF. As I'm sure you know, there's the option to do a separate baffle that goes around the drivers, that's going to be made out of the solid cherry. I plan on doing the rest of the cabinets w/ cherry veneer I'm making w/ my resaw; I have all that wood as well. Had an idea last night about potentially doing the rest of the front of the cabinet under the cherry baffle in a gloss, piano black finish. Still trying to put that idea together in my head ;), might just do all cherry.

      Congrats on your sale!! Definitely helps to free up that cash, keeps the wives happy! As far as the build goes I'm not rushing, just really excited to hear these so I want to get them done. I may run into a wall when I try to fit the cherry baffle pre-veneer though. Still trying to map that all out in my head as well. Really want to hear these in less time than it'll take me to make all the veneer and get that all done. That'll turn 2 weeks till I get to hear them into a month or 2!
      "The ability of any system to produce exceptional sound will be limited mainly by the capability of the speakers" Jim Salk
      "Audio is surely a journey full of revelations as you go" JasonP

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: ER18 buld (ribbon tweets)

        Great start, Matt! Thanks for the alert, too! Looking forward to hearing about the results.

        Marv

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: ER18 buld (ribbon tweets)

          Suggestion (this is the way I've done it): Complete the main cabinet up to final sanding and applying the finish (stain and poly, perhaps). Cut the solid cherry "dress" baffles slightly oversize and complete the driver cutouts in it. Clamp the dress baffles to the front of the cabinet using clamps around the drivers' cutouts. Flush trim the edges and top of the dress baffles to exactly match the cabinets' profiles. Remove the dress baffles and completely finish separately the cabinets and dress baffles. Allow the finish on cabinets and dress baffles to dry and harden completely (be patient). Apply blue masking tape (for delicate surfaces) to the edges of the dress baffles and front edges of cabinets. Clamp and glue the dress baffles to the cabinets (the masking tape will prevent glue getting on the finished veneer and dress baffles, but wipe any excess off anyway). I think you can get my drift.
          Paul

          Originally posted by mattsk8 View Post
          I probably worded the baffle part wrong. The main cabinet construction will be entirely out of MDF. As I'm sure you know, there's the option to do a separate baffle that goes around the drivers, that's going to be made out of the solid cherry. I plan on doing the rest of the cabinets w/ cherry veneer I'm making w/ my resaw; I have all that wood as well. Had an idea last night about potentially doing the rest of the front of the cabinet under the cherry baffle in a gloss, piano black finish. Still trying to put that idea together in my head ;), might just do all cherry.

          Congrats on your sale!! Definitely helps to free up that cash, keeps the wives happy! As far as the build goes I'm not rushing, just really excited to hear these so I want to get them done. I may run into a wall when I try to fit the cherry baffle pre-veneer though. Still trying to map that all out in my head as well. Really want to hear these in less time than it'll take me to make all the veneer and get that all done. That'll turn 2 weeks till I get to hear them into a month or 2!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: ER18 buld (ribbon tweets)

            Paul's recommendations sound good but I'd do one thing different:

            Instead of gluing the front baffles on, I would just make them "removeable" with six or eight wide flat-head screws and in between the two cabinet fronts I would cut a slightly undersized piece of that black roofing felt/paper. (I don't mean removable baffles like PE's cabinets, I mean same as your idea that the front MDF panel is an air-tight full front baffle once the speakers are in place, are you planning to screw the speakers into the "back" MDF baffle without counter-sinking them? Then they will sit slightly behind the front of the cherry front?)

            This serves two important purposes: 1) if the baffle expands a little horizontally (perpendicular to the grain) it gives it a little "play" and 2) the constrained roofing paper between two baffles actually turns out to be one of the best cabinet damping methods as shown by some extensive testing by a guy who made a great website detailing his many speaker testing/listening experiments.
            "...this is not a subwoofer" - Jeff Bagby ;)

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: ER18 buld (ribbon tweets)

              I probably should've posted this in the beginning of the thread for anyone that's interested in this build, but here's a link to info about the designer and all the technical info on these http://meniscusaudio.com/images/ER18...e%20Ribbon.pdf

              Originally posted by Paul K. View Post
              Suggestion (this is the way I've done it): Complete the main cabinet up to final sanding and applying the finish (stain and poly, perhaps). Cut the solid cherry "dress" baffles slightly oversize and complete the driver cutouts in it. Clamp the dress baffles to the front of the cabinet using clamps around the drivers' cutouts. Flush trim the edges and top of the dress baffles to exactly match the cabinets' profiles. Remove the dress baffles and completely finish separately the cabinets and dress baffles. Allow the finish on cabinets and dress baffles to dry and harden completely (be patient). Apply blue masking tape (for delicate surfaces) to the edges of the dress baffles and front edges of cabinets. Clamp and glue the dress baffles to the cabinets (the masking tape will prevent glue getting on the finished veneer and dress baffles, but wipe any excess off anyway). I think you can get my drift.
              Paul
              Thanks Paul. Just to be sure we're on the same page, if you go to that link I posted and scroll down you'll see the cabinets. The portion in pink is the baffle I'm talking about. Here's another link; my plan is to make them almost exactly like these, only out of cherry (thanks to Swerd for the link BTW!) http://www.salksound.com/home_htm_files/1239.jpg

              I am considering (like I said earlier) painting the portion under the baffle around the drivers piano black, basically the rest of the front of the cabinet under the baffle around the drivers would be piano black. I still can't envision if that will look bad or not, might have to draw a picture.

              I definitely plan to flush mount the drivers in the cherry baffle. If I can pull the black off (if it won't look bad), it'll be easier for me to permanently put the baffle on and get my driver holes routed in before I veneer the rest of the cabinets (just give me some time to take a brake from the build and listen to them for a bit). I plan on making the cherry veneer 1/4" thick, just like I did on my Tritrix. So I'd make the cherry baffle stick out about 1/4" on the sides and the top, but finish it on the bottom (finish the radius on the bottom w/ the roundover and everything). Then I can paint the front of the cabinet piano black up to the bottom of the finished baffle. Does that make sense to anyone but me :p??

              Basically the front of the cabinets under the cherry baffle would look just like these Tritrix, only they'd be gloss black instead of satin and the black would be under the drivers, not around them. You'll see the 1/4" thick endgrain on the ER18's sides just like you can on the Tritrix.



              Here's a pic of how the baffle will meet up w/ the side of the speaker cabinet (they're dusty, been in the garage for a couple months now!)



              If I decide the black will look retarded, It'll be a LOT longer before I get to listen to them because I'll have to at least make the veneer for the fronts because I'm going to have to match the radius of the bottom of the front baffle to the piece of veneer for the cabinet that goes on the front under that baffle.

              This whole post probably doesn't make any sense to anyone but me, but they'll come together eventually!!
              "The ability of any system to produce exceptional sound will be limited mainly by the capability of the speakers" Jim Salk
              "Audio is surely a journey full of revelations as you go" JasonP

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: ER18 buld (ribbon tweets)

                Your idea is also quite good and I've done essentially that once before (see attached photos). The difference is in the material I used between the back of the dress baffle and the front of the cabinet. It was thicker, I think, than roofing felt, probably about 1/16". It's probably similar to the VE1 vinyl damping material PE sells. Also, as you can see in the photos, the dress baffle was smaller than the cabinet front.
                Paul

                Originally posted by critofur View Post
                Paul's recommendations sound good but I'd do one thing different:

                Instead of gluing the front baffles on, I would just make them "removeable" with six or eight wide flat-head screws and in between the two cabinet fronts I would cut a slightly undersized piece of that black roofing felt/paper. (I don't mean removable baffles like PE's cabinets, I mean same as your idea that the front MDF panel is an air-tight full front baffle once the speakers are in place, are you planning to screw the speakers into the "back" MDF baffle without counter-sinking them? Then they will sit slightly behind the front of the cherry front?)

                This serves two important purposes: 1) if the baffle expands a little horizontally (perpendicular to the grain) it gives it a little "play" and 2) the constrained roofing paper between two baffles actually turns out to be one of the best cabinet damping methods as shown by some extensive testing by a guy who made a great website detailing his many speaker testing/listening experiments.
                Attached Files

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: ER18 buld (ribbon tweets)

                  Got some work done tonight but no where near where I was hoping to be. All I have done so far is the rest of the dados cut in and I have the holes cut into the 2 different braces. Now I can use my tracing router bit to do the other braces. Once the braces are done I'll work on the driver baffle, then work on the veneer, then the crossover.

                  Decided I don't want the black, I'll just stick w/ the solid cherry. Going to take a little longer to finish but I don't want em to look like crap on account of me wanting to listen to them sooner.
                  "The ability of any system to produce exceptional sound will be limited mainly by the capability of the speakers" Jim Salk
                  "Audio is surely a journey full of revelations as you go" JasonP

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: ER18 buld (ribbon tweets)

                    Originally posted by mattsk8 View Post
                    Got some work done tonight but no where near where I was hoping to be. All I have done so far is the rest of the dados cut in and I have the holes cut into the 2 different braces. Now I can use my tracing router bit to do the other braces. Once the braces are done I'll work on the driver baffle, then work on the veneer, then the crossover.

                    Decided I don't want the black, I'll just stick w/ the solid cherry. Going to take a little longer to finish but I don't want em to look like crap on account of me wanting to listen to them sooner.
                    Bet they would look great either way. Glad you are going to take the extra time to do them the way you really want them. Looking forward to more pictures.
                    If life were fair, Elvis would still be alive today and all the impersonators would be dead.
                    ~ Johnny Carson

                    Bungelow Ed's Photo Album http://techtalk.parts-express.com/album.php?u=8594

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: ER18 buld (ribbon tweets)

                      Hey Matt, Any progress lately? Dying to read more about your build!
                      If life were fair, Elvis would still be alive today and all the impersonators would be dead.
                      ~ Johnny Carson

                      Bungelow Ed's Photo Album http://techtalk.parts-express.com/album.php?u=8594

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: ER18 buld (ribbon tweets)

                        Originally posted by mattsk8 View Post
                        I'll put this build thread in the right spot this time :p
                        I'm still under the impression that build threads should go over in the TechTalk forum, and just use this section as a gallery with links.

                        Suit yourself though....
                        Wolf
                        "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                        "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                        "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                        "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                        *InDIYana event website*

                        Photobucket pages:
                        http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                        My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                        http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: ER18 buld (ribbon tweets)

                          Originally posted by bungelow_ed View Post
                          Hey Matt, Any progress lately? Dying to read more about your build!
                          I had a lot of time this past Saturday and half of Sunday to get some work done. I was able to make the veneer but also found the limits of my planer. My original plan was to make strips of veneer based on a cherry table I'd seen that really appealed to me. Then, after I resawed the cherry I had some very nice bookmatched pcs so I decided it would be a lot easier to go that route. After I got arrogent and tried to go to 3/32" thick, my planer took some chunks out of it and I had to go back to the strips :o! This is the strips of veneer for the sides...



                          I also finally settled on a baffle design but screwed up. I was supposed to run the strips that surround the baffle all the way to the bottom but I was in a hurry (kids waiting for me to go out on the boat) and I had a brain dead moment. I think I can still make it work, just have to change the design I originally had in mind for the front portion under the cherry baffle. It's always something!!!

                          "The ability of any system to produce exceptional sound will be limited mainly by the capability of the speakers" Jim Salk
                          "Audio is surely a journey full of revelations as you go" JasonP

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: ER18 buld (ribbon tweets)

                            Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                            I'm still under the impression that build threads should go over in the TechTalk forum, and just use this section as a gallery with links.

                            Suit yourself though....
                            Wolf
                            Speaker Project Gallery Show off your speaker projects by posting the details and images of your creations. We encourage you to discuss with the speaker project designer his methods and results.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: ER18 buld (ribbon tweets)

                              Originally posted by jinjuku View Post
                              Speaker Project Gallery Show off your speaker projects by posting the details and images of your creations. We encourage you to discuss with the speaker project designer his methods and results.
                              You apparently missed the entire threads about where build threads are intended to go. The statement from the 'welcome' thread you posted above is misleading and actually causes most of the confusion, as well as those who posted build threads in this forum opposing suggestions when it was initialized, as this is a gallery, not a build-thread section of this forum. Besides- it says details, or a synopsis. The discussion is okay, but a whole build thread does not still apply.

                              Really, do a search and you will come to the same conclusion I did.
                              This is a gallery, not a build thread forum.

                              Later,
                              Wolf
                              "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                              "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                              "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                              "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                              *InDIYana event website*

                              Photobucket pages:
                              http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                              My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                              http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                              Comment

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