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The Canzonettas - Quick and Easy 2-way RS100P-8 and ND16FA

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  • The Canzonettas - Quick and Easy 2-way RS100P-8 and ND16FA

    I'm happy to introduce my third design - the Canzonettas. Mozart used the term canzonetta to differentiate between the more serious arias and the shorter solo work in his operas. Since these speakers were designed to go together very quick and easily, I figured this was an appropriate name.

    I was inspired by TC's recent NTSB thread, where he chose to use materials at hand and few tools. Since I had some drivers laying around that I wanted to build up, I used this inspiration to get at it!

    The drivers I chose were the new RS100P-8 and the ND16FA. I had acquired the RS100's when they were the DOTD and the ND16FA's I had laying around from other projects. I plan to use the RS100P-8 in an upcoming 3-way design, so I thought I would build some small 2-ways to see how well they do before tackling them in a large 3-way.

    There were a few main goals of this design:

    1. Must be accomplished with a very minimal tool set. For me, I used a router (with Jasper jig) and a chop saw. Yep. That's it. (Assembly could be accomplished in numerous ways, but I chose finish nails with an air-nailer. Dovetail, tongue-and-groove, standard nail, biscuit, and face-gluing could also be used)

    2. Cabinets must be accomplished with off-the-shelf wood and parts from a big-box store. No table-saws, circular saws, rips, or major alterations of the wood. Just simple cuts!

    3. Capable of building a pair in less than a day (not including finishing).

    Using these three simple rules, I created a ported cabinet using three pieces 1/2" by 5.5" by 4' wood available from the big blue store. Since these cabinets are relatively small, the 1/2" wood allowed me to make the cabinets even smaller and more manageable. My big blue store had 4 choices available in this wood size - Oak, Aspen, Poplar, and Pine. Any of these would have been acceptable, but I chose oak. The three pieces of 1/2 x 6 x 4 cost me $11/each, so it was $33 for enough to finish 2 speakers. Note that the "by 6" size of wood is actually 5.5" wide. While you're at the store, pick up a short piece of 1.25" schedule 40 PVC to use as the port.

    The cabinet size is 5.5" by 6.5" by 11". Using this size, you can see how easy it is to get the cabinets formed from the existing wood. One 4' length is used to create the baffles and sides of each speaker. Simply cut 4 pieces that are 11" long. There's a small bit of leftover wood that gets tossed.

    With the third piece of wood, cut out 6 pieces of wood that are 4.5" long. This will create the top, bottom, and internal support for the cabinets. Here's a quick snapshot from BoxyCad that shows how the cabinet goes together and a not-to-scale image of the cutlist:

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    The woofer, tweeter, and port are all centered on the baffle (2.75" from the edges). The tweeter is centered 1.25" from the top, the woofer is centered 4" from the top, and the port is centered 1.75" from the bottom. The internal support is mounted between 6" and 6.5" down from the top. There's a picture of that later. The resulting cabinet is about 3.85 liters and the speakers can reach down to the 60's!!! Pretty dog-gone impressive for a little 3" speaker.

    The crossover design is a very simple 2nd-order electrical for both the woofer and the tweeter. They cross at about 2700Hz and have quite a deep reverse null when out of phase. Here's a snapshot of the crossover:
    Click image for larger version

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    Here's a few resulting measurements of the speakers. First the shot showing the driver responses, in-phase, and out-of-phase measured at 1M:
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    Here's the measurements showing the off-axis response up to 45 degrees. Pretty dog-gone awesome, IMHO:
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    So far as the time-to-build, I was able to knock out the cabinets and assembly in about 7-8 hours, and I'm not terribly experienced. The fact that there's no ripping needed shortens the time dramatically. Provided you've got a router, these CAN be accomplished in one day or less!

    More details to follow!
    Last edited by tyger23; 05-04-2014, 11:29 PM.
    DARPA Jr - 2015 InDIYana Winner - RS180-8 + RS100P-8 + ND25FA
    The Aria's - RS150-4 (or RS150-8) + XT25SC90
    The Mariposa's - TEBM65C20F-8 + ND16FA
    The Canzonetta's - RS100P-8 and ND16FA
    AudioSource AMP-100 Mods OR Pyle PAMP1000 Mods

  • #2
    Re: The Canzonettas - Quick and Easy 2-way RS100P-8 and ND16FA

    Here's a few shots of the build in progress. First up is a pic of the raw, uncut board that I purchased. Again, I simply bought three 1/2 x 6 x 4' oak boards.


    Here's the shot of the baffles front and back. I thought long and hard about trying to do these without a router (simply using hole saws), but in the end - I think a router is required. There's just not enough breathing room behind the woofer if you don't flush mount it AND then use a 3/8 cove bit on the router to remove material around the screws.



    Here's the back of the front baffle. Note the material removed from behind the speaker to allow it to breathe. Also note how I've actually recessed the port half way into the front baffle for mounting security. I attach the ports (1.25" PVC pipe) with foaming Gorilla glue.


    I drilled out the center support with two offset 2-3/8" holes. On the next picture you can see where I marked its mounting location, which is between 6" and 6.5" down from the top edge of the front baffle. This places it nicely below the RS100P speaker.



    Here's a shot of the "box" being glued together:


    The port, again, is a 1.25" piece of schedule 40 PVC, which actually has an internal diameter of about 1.31". The total port length from the back of the port to the front of the baffle is 4.5" as shown here:


    On my design, I actually glued the front baffle to the box. This left me needing to make the rear baffle removable. To do this, I used #6 x 1" screws placed 1" from each corner, centered on the rear sides, and centered inside the rear support. I did use a countersink bit to recess them, and I do plan to replace these with black-oxide screws when I can. To seal up the back baffle, I used 3/8" Frost King widow seal (available at a big box store) and I cut it in half and lined the outside edges. When screwed down, there's a small gap in the back baffle (1/32"), but it's good and sealed.



    Last edited by tyger23; 05-04-2014, 10:09 PM.
    DARPA Jr - 2015 InDIYana Winner - RS180-8 + RS100P-8 + ND25FA
    The Aria's - RS150-4 (or RS150-8) + XT25SC90
    The Mariposa's - TEBM65C20F-8 + ND16FA
    The Canzonetta's - RS100P-8 and ND16FA
    AudioSource AMP-100 Mods OR Pyle PAMP1000 Mods

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The Canzonettas - Quick and Easy 2-way RS100P-8 and ND16FA

      Here's a pic of the Canzonettas set up for measurement and crossover design. Ignore the dead palm tree in the pool's island - it was a rough winter. The setup is basically a half space setup, with the closest wall about 4 feet behind the speakers.



      The cabinet, with the 4.5" port, is tuned right around 72Hz. The simmed F3 of the cabinet is at 62Hz, and that seems to be about right based on measurements. The measurements actually indicate an F3 around 58Hz. These two speakers are very easy to integrate, and this is most likely due to the RS100P's ultra-smooth response and easy breakup. For the crossover design, I basically just settled on a 2nd order for both speakers and an L-pad to attenuate the tweeter. Putting the series R of the tweeter's L-pad in front of the crossover actually leveled out the response of the tweeter quite a bit. I did play around with adding a tank circuit to the woofer, as I could hear just a bit of breakup in the cone (even with the crossover). However, the breakup is minimal and not distracting at all (as versus the RS aluminum cone speakers), so I didn't think it was necessary. If anyone really wants to add it, it requires a 0.15uF cap across the woofer inductor and a 3-ohm resistor in series between the 4uF cap and ground. Again, I don't really think it's necessary.

      Here's a pic of the final crossover mocked up in breadboard:


      For the speaker terminals, I actually used the terminals from the buyout Mirage terminal cups. Those things are utterly HUGE, so I just removed the terminals and decided to mount them without the cup. To do this, I used a 1/2" forstner bit to remove about 3/8" of the thickness of the rear baffle. Here's what that looks like:



      With regards to the crossover, I hate posting something from another vendor's site, but it must be said that PE's current web site incarnation is impossible to search and costs a small fortune. Here's the shopping cart for the crossover components I purchased from the vendor I used:
      Click image for larger version

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      I chose to hot-glue the components directly to the back baffle in the area behind the woofer and tweeter. In this pic, you'll see the wires that lead to the woofer, the tweeter, and the terminals. Note that the terminal connections MUST be detachable. This is because they must route through the center support holes when the rear baffle is attached. You can also see the rear of the terminal posts:



      Finally, I did add a moderate amount of stuffing to the box. I'm not 100% sure this is completely necessary, but it did seem to help smooth out the midrange a smidge. Perhaps it would be best if this was experimented with more. FWIW, I used about 2 handfulls of stuffing, 3/4 of which was placed in the upper chamber and 1/4 of which was placed around the port tube:



      Post of the final cabinet to come.....
      Last edited by tyger23; 05-04-2014, 11:08 PM.
      DARPA Jr - 2015 InDIYana Winner - RS180-8 + RS100P-8 + ND25FA
      The Aria's - RS150-4 (or RS150-8) + XT25SC90
      The Mariposa's - TEBM65C20F-8 + ND16FA
      The Canzonetta's - RS100P-8 and ND16FA
      AudioSource AMP-100 Mods OR Pyle PAMP1000 Mods

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The Canzonettas - Quick and Easy 2-way RS100P-8 and ND16FA

        Posting up listening impressions of speakers is a wholly fruitless exercise to me, as audio is such a personal and subjective topic. However, it's impossible for anyone to justify building these without having some form of opinions on the speakers.

        First off - I'm completely taken aback by just how low these things dig. It's not earth-shattering bass, but for a 3" little guy - it's darned impressive. The phasing of the crossover is quite smooth, and the speakers sum up quite nicely and in a very short distance. These would make a great desktop or computer build, which is likely what these will end up being (for my wife).

        The off-axis measurements I posted above reveal just how good these things really are as you pan left to right. They really don't show much change at all until you get past about 45 degrees off axis.

        I've only spent a very short time listening to some of the Focal demo discs, Sara Bareilles, and a little Pierre Fornier. There's absolutely nothing bad I can say about them at this time. They handle the dynamic transitions of Bach's Cello suites impeccably. The bass extension in Junior Wells' Sweet Sixteen is impressive. The vocal prowess of Rebecca Pidgeon in Spanish Harlem is uncanny - it sounds like she's sitting right next to you in the room. Sara's "Sitting on the Dock of the Bay" was recorded live, and the crowd comes out like you're sitting in the audience. I'm truly impressed by these little guys.

        Over the next few days, I'll set them up against my Continuum's to see just where they fall down. My guess is that the treble just won't quite have the snap that the Continuum's feature. However, that's pitting a $55 tweet against a $10 tweet - it's not exactly a fair comparison. I will be more interested, however, in seeing how the midrange and vocals come out, as that's comparing the RS100P against the AC130. Ignoring the size discrepancy, that's far more of a fair comparison.

        More to come....
        Last edited by tyger23; 05-05-2014, 12:01 AM.
        DARPA Jr - 2015 InDIYana Winner - RS180-8 + RS100P-8 + ND25FA
        The Aria's - RS150-4 (or RS150-8) + XT25SC90
        The Mariposa's - TEBM65C20F-8 + ND16FA
        The Canzonetta's - RS100P-8 and ND16FA
        AudioSource AMP-100 Mods OR Pyle PAMP1000 Mods

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The Canzonettas - Quick and Easy 2-way RS100P-8 and ND16FA

          Looks like a great build that is pretty budget friendly!
          My Build Thread's
          Carrera's / Finalist TL's / Speedster TMM's / Speedster MTM Center / Overnight Sensation Surrounds

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The Canzonettas - Quick and Easy 2-way RS100P-8 and ND16FA

            I am following this.

            Great idea.
            Sausage With Meat Sause, Please

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The Canzonettas - Quick and Easy 2-way RS100P-8 and ND16FA

              Love your idea of a quick box build using off the shelf boards.
              Looking forward to your listening impressions of the RS100P

              I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
              "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

              High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
              SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
              My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

              Tangband W6-sub

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The Canzonettas - Quick and Easy 2-way RS100P-8 and ND16FA

                Kudo's! Very nice project. I like the way you have thought this out and made it very simple to construct the cabinets with a minimal amount of work.

                I will be following your thread. I havent bought any of the RS'P's yet and am also curious about your listening impressions of these paper coned drivers.
                Don't worry, if your parachute fails, you have the rest of your life to fix it.

                If we all did the things we are capable of doing, we would literally ASTOUND ourselves - Thomas A. Edison

                Some people collect stamps, Imelda Marcos collected shoes. I collect speakers.:D

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The Canzonettas - Quick and Easy 2-way RS100P-8 and ND16FA

                  Posts 1, 2, and 3 are updated.

                  Currently putting the Canzonettas against the Continuums...

                  Click image for larger version

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                  There is a marked difference in the two, as one would expect. The treble is hands down better with the rs28-a, but again - that's just not a fair comparison. The ND16FA is a great tweet for the money, and I'm not ashamed of it in this design. The little (ported) RS100P's are holding their own in the bass region in this design.

                  What I'm hearing in the Canzonettas is a smidge less coloration (or pronouncement, or fullness) in the male vocal region, probably around 150hz to 300hz. If you go back and look at my measurements you'll see a slight dip in that region that corresponds with what I'm hearing.

                  I didn't know if I could trust those measurements, as I still don't quite know what's causing that dip. I'm pushing that Rs100 well below its resonant frequency, so it's likely an inefficiency around that point.

                  Conversely, the Continuums we're specifically designed to accentuate that region, and this is the first head to head comparison I've done where this became totally evident.

                  Still listening, but I'm stoked to use these RS100P's as a midrange in a 3 way. Somewhere between about 300 and 2000, and they're probably going to be butter.
                  DARPA Jr - 2015 InDIYana Winner - RS180-8 + RS100P-8 + ND25FA
                  The Aria's - RS150-4 (or RS150-8) + XT25SC90
                  The Mariposa's - TEBM65C20F-8 + ND16FA
                  The Canzonetta's - RS100P-8 and ND16FA
                  AudioSource AMP-100 Mods OR Pyle PAMP1000 Mods

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The Canzonettas - Quick and Easy 2-way RS100P-8 and ND16FA

                    Nice project. Congrats.
                    ~Marty

                    Baby Eidolons
                    Sapphos
                    Cables (Post #54)
                    Other speakers (Post #21)
                    Design Thoughts (Posts: 6,10,13,33,35)
                    Boundary Augmentation
                    Dispersion/Interference

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The Canzonettas - Quick and Easy 2-way RS100P-8 and ND16FA

                      Nice pool! Oh yeah, nice speakers too. :P
                      Melby Audio - Flat Pack Speaker Kits

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The Canzonettas - Quick and Easy 2-way RS100P-8 and ND16FA

                        Great work! It looks like these would be killer PC monitor speakers.

                        Do you plan to apply any other finishes to the wood?

                        Beautiful home also.
                        Best Regards,

                        Rory Buszka
                        Product Manager, Dayton Audio

                        The best way to predict the future is to create it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The Canzonettas - Quick and Easy 2-way RS100P-8 and ND16FA

                          I can't help but noticed the nice pool too. I'm about to renovate my house. Is that pool naturally filtered?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The Canzonettas - Quick and Easy 2-way RS100P-8 and ND16FA

                            Rory - thanks for the comments. They will likely end up flanking a computer. I built in a full BSC into the design, but I expect that using them flanking a computer won't really detract from the sound too much - especially at low volume. It's really surprising how low these things can dig. Perhaps one of your "team" can build them as a test for you ;).

                            I have to admit that the Continuum's are just flat kicking their rears on most music, but it's really not a fair comparison. My wife described it as going from standard def to high def when swapping between the two. I'm hoping to spend some time with them tomorrow comparing the Canzonetta's against my Mariposa's - which again won't be that fair (for the Mariposa's). I just don't have a similar size/price range system to fairly put them up against.

                            I am stoked to use these as a dedicated midrange in a 3-way. I'm still confused however, if I should use 2 of these woofers for the mid or just 1... I'm planning an angled baffle, so there's no real need for an MTM configuration. Side-by-side woofers would yield combing issues and limited horizontal panning, while vertical stacked woofers limit some of the vertical panning.... I'd really like to stick with 1 woofer, but not sure if I can do it (planning to pair them up with the RS28-A and RS225-8).

                            Thanks for the compliments on the pool. It's a pebble-tec bottom and a "salt-water" system from Pentair. We do not run natural filtration, but the salt-water system really helps with the swimmability and prevents that awful chlorine smell. The maintenance costs are supposedly much less with a salt-water system, but I have no other experience to compare it to.
                            DARPA Jr - 2015 InDIYana Winner - RS180-8 + RS100P-8 + ND25FA
                            The Aria's - RS150-4 (or RS150-8) + XT25SC90
                            The Mariposa's - TEBM65C20F-8 + ND16FA
                            The Canzonetta's - RS100P-8 and ND16FA
                            AudioSource AMP-100 Mods OR Pyle PAMP1000 Mods

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The Canzonettas - Quick and Easy 2-way RS100P-8 and ND16FA

                              I realize that I forgot to post the final impedance/phase sweep, so that's attached.

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                              I've finished them with two coats of dark walnut Danish Oil, and I'll post some pictures of that tomorrow once I get them into the daylight. They've been weeping the oil back out for two days now, so I'm hoping that putting them in the sun will help dry that up.

                              As for some final listening impressions - I'm very pleased with them. They kick the tar out of the Mariposa's, and I don't have anything I can really compare them to. They're a bit thin in the male vocal region, but that's probably due to the phase/impedance in that area and the fact that the woofers are covering 6 octaves. I'm hoping that someone will give these a shot and post their opinion. They're quick to build!
                              DARPA Jr - 2015 InDIYana Winner - RS180-8 + RS100P-8 + ND25FA
                              The Aria's - RS150-4 (or RS150-8) + XT25SC90
                              The Mariposa's - TEBM65C20F-8 + ND16FA
                              The Canzonetta's - RS100P-8 and ND16FA
                              AudioSource AMP-100 Mods OR Pyle PAMP1000 Mods

                              Comment

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