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The Boxers - a subwoofer and waveguide loaded tweeter based 2-way

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  • #16
    Re: The Boxers - a subwoofer and waveguide loaded tweeter based 2-way

    Very nice Dan! Good Luck!

    They looked and sounded good at InDIYana.
    "I calculated the odds of this succeeding versus the odds I was doing something incredibly stupid... and I went ahead anyway." - Crow T. Robot

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    • #17
      Re: The Boxers - a subwoofer and waveguide loaded tweeter based 2-way

      Wow, this is really impressive! I liked the concept [emoji4][emoji106][emoji106]

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      • #18
        Re: The Boxers - a subwoofer and waveguide loaded tweeter based 2-way

        Those look amazing in every single way.

        So to those that heard them, was the 15k valley noticeable? I can't imagine I'd be able to hear that, it is so high.

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        • #19
          Re: The Boxers - a subwoofer and waveguide loaded tweeter based 2-way

          Originally posted by philthien View Post
          Those look amazing in every single way.

          So to those that heard them, was the 15k valley noticeable? I can't imagine I'd be able to hear that, it is so high.
          Their only real issue is the low sensitivity. High 70's....
          He's addressing the resonance I picked out at InDIYana, likely the waveguide.

          Later,
          Wolf
          "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
          "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
          "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
          "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

          *InDIYana event website*

          Photobucket pages:
          http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

          My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

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          • #20
            Re: The Boxers - a subwoofer and waveguide loaded tweeter based 2-way

            Originally posted by Wolf View Post
            Their only real issue is the low sensitivity. High 70's....
            He's addressing the resonance I picked out at InDIYana, likely the waveguide.

            Later,
            Wolf
            I remember when I was a kid, visiting a stereo shop I had frequented. One of the salespeople was a pretty nice guy, and he did an A/B comparison in the demo room once between a pair of bookshelf speakers, and these giant Pioneer speakers. The giant Pioneers were actually hugely inefficient, so when he switched to them, the sound level was cut maybe 10 db instantly. I thought there was something wrong with them but he explained they just needed gobs of power.

            Their patch panel allowed for level matching but he was just trying to teach me something.

            That guy (his name was/is Phil Johnson) was the guy that got me hooked on building speakers. The shop was Sound Stage (recently closed). He went to work for Avid a year or two after that demo, this is the way back machine. Super nice guy.

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            • #21
              Re: The Boxers - a subwoofer and waveguide loaded tweeter based 2-way

              Cool design Dan! I always like to see outside-the-box thinking in order to have your cake and eat it too. :applause:
              Keep an open mind, but don't let your brain fall out.

              Sehlin Sound Solutions

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              • #22
                Re: The Boxers - a subwoofer and waveguide loaded tweeter based 2-way

                I've attached the off axis response of the Boxers as well as the measured distortion. As you can see, the dip is greatly minimized already at 15 degrees off axis and then the response actually begins to rise above 10kHz further off axis as the dip disappears and the crossover correction starts to show up in its place. As I said above, I added a small cap across the series attenuating resistor to compensate for the dip a little. This was purely a voicing choice that I felt sounded better after some listening sessions.

                For some reason, the graph got chopped up pretty bad when uploading, but the graph lines are 2dB apart.

                Dan
                Attached Files
                _____________________________
                Tall Boys
                NRNP Computer Sub
                The Boxers
                The Hurricanes
                The Baronettes
                Conneccentric
                UX3

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                • #23
                  Re: The Boxers - a subwoofer and waveguide loaded tweeter based 2-way

                  This idea is really cool, and it looks well implemented too.

                  Still...I can't help but think this kind of speaker is the ideal case to ditch passive networks (except for the 1st pole of the tweeter's network, which I prefer to keep passive to provide a measure of protection for the tweeter) and use something like a miniDSP PWR-ICE250 plate amp.
                  --
                  "Based on my library and laboratory research, I have concluded, as have others, that the best measures of speaker quality are frequency response and dispersion pattern. I have not found any credible research showing that most of the differences we hear among loudspeakers cannot be explained by examining these two variables." -Alvin Foster, 22 BAS Speaker 2 (May, 1999)

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                  • #24
                    Re: The Boxers - a subwoofer and waveguide loaded tweeter based 2-way

                    This was a stunning looking and great sounding build at InDIY, I regret if I didn't tell you so at the event. IIRC you spent much of the time front row and center so I can't recall ever actually talking to you. Good job!
                    Audio: Media PC -> Sabre ESS 9023 DAC -> Behringer EP2500 -> (insert speakers of the moment)
                    Sites: Jupiter Audioworks - Flicker Stream - FRD Consortium Archive - Proud Member of Midwest Audio Club

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                    • #25
                      Re: The Boxers - a subwoofer and waveguide loaded tweeter based 2-way

                      Nice job Dan. Great to see you finally implement the guide you sent me for experimentation long ago.

                      It's interesting to me that you see that dip on-axis. I didn't see it in the guide you sent me or the subsequent iterations in MDF.
                      R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
                      Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

                      95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                      "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

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                      • #26
                        Re: The Boxers - a subwoofer and waveguide loaded tweeter based 2-way

                        DanP,

                        Thank you for posting the cross section. tna

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                        • #27
                          Re: The Boxers - a subwoofer and waveguide loaded tweeter based 2-way

                          Click image for larger version

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                          Wolf picked up on a resonance on these at InDIYana, so I printed some ribs and glued them on to the back of the waveguides and put some Dynamat on the areas between the ribs. Hopefully this takes care of it - initial listening impressions suggest it has. All ready for MWAF!

                          Dan
                          _____________________________
                          Tall Boys
                          NRNP Computer Sub
                          The Boxers
                          The Hurricanes
                          The Baronettes
                          Conneccentric
                          UX3

                          Comment

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