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  • #91
    Originally posted by administrator View Post
    FYI - Edited the topic to remove the "mdash" which caused an error in the URL and it would not display properly.
    Thank you!

    Jim

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    • #92
      Hi Jim,

      I've been looking but can't seem to find a direct answer to the following, so I hope it's ok to ask here. With respect to open-back midranges, it seems the minimum recommended distance to the wall behind them is ~18". As with many people I'm lucky to get my speakers 8" away from the wall. My questions are:

      What sort of detrimental effects would be expected from an open-back midrange speaker located 6" - 8" from the rear wall?

      Should open-back midrange (Anthologies, Statement Center Channel, etc.) design not even be considered with this limitation in positioning?

      Can these open-back midrange designs be modified to instead employ a sealed midrange enclosure with only value adjustments to the crossovers?

      Even a link to the relevant info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for whatever feedback you can provide!

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by rsbonini View Post
        Hi Jim,

        I've been looking but can't seem to find a direct answer to the following, so I hope it's ok to ask here. With respect to open-back midranges, it seems the minimum recommended distance to the wall behind them is ~18". As with many people I'm lucky to get my speakers 8" away from the wall. My questions are:

        1. What sort of detrimental effects would be expected from an open-back midrange speaker located 6" - 8" from the rear wall?

        2. Should open-back midrange (Anthologies, Statement Center Channel, etc.) design not even be considered with this limitation in positioning?

        3. Can these open-back midrange designs be modified to instead employ a sealed midrange enclosure with only value adjustments to the crossovers?

        4. Even a link to the relevant info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for whatever feedback you can provide!
        No problem at all. I'll try to answer your questions.

        1st though, what are you going to use the speakers for? Home theater, old music, new music, audiophile quality recordings and what kind of music? What percentage of each if any of these apply? If Home Theater, the center is the most important speaker and will handle up to 70% of the sound. It's the 1st speaker you should focus on. What are you powering your speakers with?

        1. Audiophile quality speakers are designed to be positioned 2-3 feet from the walls behind and around them. That allows them to recreate the sound stage the way it was meant to be heard. All of the designs Curt and I have collaborated on have been designed for an 18" distance from the back of the speaker and to the side walls. Reality is, they will work fine as close as 12" - 36" from the rear of the speaker and 18" - several feet from side walls and still sound excellent. However, closer than 12" and the sound stage starts to collapse until it be comes a flat wall of music with no depth. If the crossover is changed for on wall/close wall positioning, it still is a flat sound stage. This applies to all speakers, not just open back to sound best. A thought, mount the speakers on casters so they can be easily moved out when you want to critically listen to music.

        2. Open back simply allows a larger more expansive and real sounding sound stage than a closed back, but for best sound quality, the positioning requirements are very much the same. The Statements II center is closed back and is more flexible for placement since the center in a surround systems primary duty is to anchor the music to the TV screen. It's not a small center though so that is a limitation for some. The mains are effects channels when using them for home theater and less sensitive to placement.

        3. Any speaker can have the crossover changed to allow playback without "chesty vocals" but the optimum positioning doesn't change. A speaker with the crossover modified for close wall positioning will still have a flat and diminished sounding sound stage which then can't be pulled out from the wall to sound excellent for music.

        4. Search here for dozens and dozens of builds that Curt and I have collaborated on going back over 12 years. http://www.htguide.com/forum/forumdi...n-Possible-DIY

        Bottom line, open back speakers are just a way of better recreating the original performance on recordings that are well recorded and gives more of the "you are there" feeling rather than the forward stuck between the speakers sound. Then it becomes subjective of which type of presentation you like best.

        HTH

        Jim


        Comment


        • #94
          Hi Jim,

          Thanks for your lengthy and thoughtful response. Lots to consider there.

          The speakers are going to be used 80/20 for HT/music. In times past it was the other way around, but that seemed to change with having a family.

          My setup is now 5.2.2, with in-walls for the overhead and side channels. Powered by a Marantz SR-5012 receiver. I have a Bryston 4BST clone I built when stereo was my primary format, so I could conceivably run the mains off of that. I’ve never built speakers before.

          I completely hear you on the importance of the centre channel for HT. I’m replacing a retail tower/centre set specifically because I was less than underwhelmed with the scale/dynamics/clarity of the 5.25” MTM centre speaker option, despite really enjoying the 6" 2.5-way towers. I decided to prioritize my centre channel selection with the requirement that an excellent matching mains option be available.

          The Finalist/Anthology centre checks everything on my list: 3-way, >=6” LF drivers, sealed, <12” high, reasonable cost, excellent matching towers (anthology w/ vertical MTM are quite appealing). Retail offerings that are similar seem overly expensive, hence my considering DIY. However, there don’t seem to be many DIY designs, and especially not recent ones, that fit the bill either. Are there any you might suggest?

          The space I have now is admittedly small, but that’s scheduled to change in about 4 years. I’m not sure I want to build speakers for a temporary space, although interim modifications (i.e. crossover) seem a good compromise (open to correction here)? The casters idea is interesting, but not one I prefer for living with active little people…

          Also, from the reading I’ve done, it seems remarkable that the Anthology crossovers have such low part counts. Is that primarily the result of driver selection? Don’t baffle interactions play a major role as well?

          Thanks again for taking the time to respond!

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by rsbonini View Post
            Hi Jim,

            Thanks for your lengthy and thoughtful response. Lots to consider there.

            The speakers are going to be used 80/20 for HT/music. In times past it was the other way around, but that seemed to change with having a family.

            My setup is now 5.2.2, with in-walls for the overhead and side channels. Powered by a Marantz SR-5012 receiver. I have a Bryston 4BST clone I built when stereo was my primary format, so I could conceivably run the mains off of that. I’ve never built speakers before.

            I completely hear you on the importance of the centre channel for HT. I’m replacing a retail tower/centre set specifically because I was less than underwhelmed with the scale/dynamics/clarity of the 5.25” MTM centre speaker option, despite really enjoying the 6" 2.5-way towers. I decided to prioritize my centre channel selection with the requirement that an excellent matching mains option be available.

            The Finalist/Anthology centre checks everything on my list: 3-way, >=6” LF drivers, sealed, <12” high, reasonable cost, excellent matching towers (anthology w/ vertical MTM are quite appealing). Retail offerings that are similar seem overly expensive, hence my considering DIY. However, there don’t seem to be many DIY designs, and especially not recent ones, that fit the bill either. Are there any you might suggest?

            The space I have now is admittedly small, but that’s scheduled to change in about 4 years. I’m not sure I want to build speakers for a temporary space, although interim modifications (i.e. crossover) seem a good compromise (open to correction here)? The casters idea is interesting, but not one I prefer for living with active little people…

            Also, from the reading I’ve done, it seems remarkable that the Anthology crossovers have such low part counts. Is that primarily the result of driver selection? Don’t baffle interactions play a major role as well?

            Thanks again for taking the time to respond!
            The crossover is the result of the many years Curt has been developing speakers. He is a master at getting the most sound quality out of every creation that comes out of his development shop.

            HTH

            Jim

            Comment

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