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  • MWAF 2016 discussions thread

    Last edited by bcodemz; 07-11-2016, 07:13 PM.

  • #2
    Any more details on that coax?
    --
    "Based on my library and laboratory research, I have concluded, as have others, that the best measures of speaker quality are frequency response and dispersion pattern. I have not found any credible research showing that most of the differences we hear among loudspeakers cannot be explained by examining these two variables." -Alvin Foster, 22 BAS Speaker 2 (May, 1999)

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    • #3
      Unfortunately, demo tracks are always going to raise a little controversy - which is the point. There is, however, something of a discipline involved in selecting demo music and it takes some time and some listening and some analysis within editing software to get it right. Your other points are spot-on, particularly as regards level matching. I also feel three minutes is only enough time to make a "thumbs up" or "thumbs down" judgement based on a rough and quick determination of tonal balance - "imaging" is going to be impacted hugely by the music selection, and if the music does not offer a broad enough frequency spectrum, is recorded poorly, and is played back inconsistently any commentary on "clarity" should be somewhat suspect.

      The above (and the inevitable 'but I shoulda won - *pout*') is why we do not do competitions at Dakota or Iowa. We just have fun, play some tunes, and level match within a db regardless of the size of speaker. I think MWAF is on to something great here, but reducing entries to extend time slot length, and working on creating a more repeatable playback method would be worthy of serious consideration.
      Don't listen to me - I have not sold any $150,000 speakers.

      Comment


      • #4
        I was pretty bummed about how badly the recording were clipping in the Over $200 category as well (especially Bohemian Rhapsody). There were a few surprises to me as well as far as the winner went (or more so that I was unable to pick even one winner on my peer ballot). I guess it makes sense as we were all in really poor locations for judging how well they actually sounded. I thought my own sounded especially boomy, and others I thought sounded terribly bright. Some had no midrange at all it seemed. So, then much to my surprise, most that sounded best to me didnt place. I trust the judges opinions though, they all seem well qualified and had a much better listening position than I did.

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm really confused about the results. My peer ballots were very "wrong" also. I had Dustin's speakers in first place for Dayton Audio, and they didn't even place. From where I sat, they were pretty much tonally perfect from top to bottom. I'm not sure what else he could have done to win, except possibly be more creative in the enclosure construction. I thought some of the first place winners were completely out of the running when I heard them, but I guess that shows how much I know. A couple first place winners sounded distinctly different from the others in the competition, and I guess that was a good thing.

          I really don't know what the judges are listening for, but it seems several "polite" sounding speakers have won in the past few years, including a couple tweeterless designs. It's a little surprising, but of course all the speakers are really good, and a couple of the winners this year had exceptional construction and design techniques. The >200 category was spectacular this year and was too tough for me to call. Just some thoughts.
          Eric L.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by johnnyrichards View Post
            Unfortunately, demo tracks are always going to raise a little controversy - which is the point. There is, however, something of a discipline involved in selecting demo music and it takes some time and some listening and some analysis within editing software to get it right. Your other points are spot-on, particularly as regards level matching. I also feel three minutes is only enough time to make a "thumbs up" or "thumbs down" judgement based on a rough and quick determination of tonal balance - "imaging" is going to be impacted hugely by the music selection, and if the music does not offer a broad enough frequency spectrum, is recorded poorly, and is played back inconsistently any commentary on "clarity" should be somewhat suspect.

            The above (and the inevitable 'but I shoulda won - *pout*') is why we do not do competitions at Dakota or Iowa. We just have fun, play some tunes, and level match within a db regardless of the size of speaker. I think MWAF is on to something great here, but reducing entries to extend time slot length, and working on creating a more repeatable playback method would be worthy of serious consideration.
            It took a while, but this is why DIYNY has become more of a listening session/ hang out enjoy the company and designs. There is some "demo rigor", but one "house track" and the designers each get a few min to play their own tracks. We have been lucky to have JeffFree who has done some very good mixing.

            Even with Iron Driver, and Roman was able to take it to a pretty close to un-bias extreme, there is always wiggle room in these competitions. I think everyone has more fun and it is less itimidating for newbs and novices alike when not a competition, but "structured listen". (That way 12" 3-way arent followed by 4" full-rangers...) seems Dakota and Iwoa figired this out early on, but us stubborn and high-strung New Englanders take time to come around (ya' got a problem wit' dat?!)

            Early feeback, to spite hiccups and foibles, seemed very good as always and it was a great time as usual!
            .

            Comment


            • #7
              The studio just sucks. They really need a room like the one used at IowaDIY.
              " To me, the soundstage presentation is more about phase and distortion and less about size. However, when you talk about bass extension, there's no replacement for displacement". Tyger23. 4.2015

              Quote Originally Posted by hongrn. Oct 2014
              Do you realize that being an American is like winning the biggest jackpot ever??

              http://www.midwestaudioclub.com/spot...owell-simpson/
              http://s413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/arlis/

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by bcodemz View Post
                ...Third, the level matching was sometimes off, with certain speakers playing at least 6dB louder than the rest..
                I've got two volume-compensated relay switchbox systems that I offered as loaners to DIY events. One has 2 relay positions and the other has 4 relays. Nobody asked to borrow either of them. I don't get it. See this thread: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...eaker-relaybox



                Free Passive Speaker Designer Lite (PSD-Lite) -- http://www.audiodevelopers.com/Softw...Lite/setup.exe

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by neildavis View Post

                  I've got two volume-compensated relay switchbox systems that I offered as loaners to DIY events. One has 2 relay positions and the other has 4 relays. Nobody asked to borrow either of them. I don't get it. See this thread: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...eaker-relaybox



                  Hi Neil,
                  Hypothetically.....If I were designing two Identical speakers with one small, highly debated if audible change between the two, would I be able to borrow said switches for a demo at a DIY event?
                  .

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Last edited by jhollander; 07-12-2016, 05:02 PM.
                    John H

                    Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mzisserson View Post

                      Hi Neil,
                      Hypothetically.....If I were designing two Identical speakers with one small, highly debated if audible change between the two, would I be able to borrow said switches for a demo at a DIY event?
                      ​Well, it if you really need the volume-compensation feature and if it justifies the time and expense of shipping, then, yes, they are available. But for a specific test like that you might be better off building in switches or relays so you can have a more permanent test fixture that lets you isolate that one change. I've never tried shipping these, but I would expect the shipping cost would exceed what it would take to make a dedicated switch. The relay boxes I have are really best for comparing two or more totally different completed speakers. They are ideal for DIY events with lots of different speakers, but probably overkill for testing just one change.

                      PM me with what you are trying to do and I'll see if I can some up with some other ideas--there might be some simpler, cheap Arduino-based relay switch that you could embed in the speaker and that would give you the IR remote control capability.

                      Free Passive Speaker Designer Lite (PSD-Lite) -- http://www.audiodevelopers.com/Softw...Lite/setup.exe

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Just a minor correction: The midrange is a Tectonic Balanced Mode Radiator (BMR) and the project name is Balmora.
                        Paul

                        Originally posted by jhollander View Post
                        Under $200

                        1. DCT-1 - Shawn K.
                        2.Paul K, 3 way with RBM mid
                        3.John H Titan

                        Over $200

                        1. Scimitar - Dan Neubecker
                        2.Giant MTM with TB and AC tweet and slot loaded Em Alpha 15s
                        ​3. Huricanes, Dan P.

                        Dayton Audio

                        1. Neo 10’s or DSN?, Tom Zarbo
                        2. Archers, Kevin
                        ​3.Vultus, John H

                        Open Unlimited

                        1. Snake Eye, Nick
                        2. Cherry Pi, Ron E
                        ​3. Electric CBT, Dean Arno

                        A attendee at MWAF said words to the effect "you need to judge exactly like the judges do (with the same criteria) so you are not disappointed".

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Paul K. View Post
                          Just a minor correction: The midrange is a Tectonic Balanced Mode Radiator (BMR) and the project name is Balmora.
                          Paul


                          Paul, do you have a write-up on that speaker? The midrange was outstanding from where i sat !!

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                          • #14
                            I sent you a private message, and thanks for the compliment (to which I totally agree).
                            Paul

                            Originally posted by OldenGnarley View Post

                            Paul, do you have a write-up on that speaker? The midrange was outstanding from where i sat !!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hey guys, a small correction, mine are named the stink eyes not snake eyes. The name was a poor attempt at injecting a little humor.

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