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DIY New England - Saturday Oct 22

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  • DIY New England - Saturday Oct 22

    Rather than bumping up the other thread, this is to request that those who will or even think that they may attend to either send me a PM or post here to give me an idea of how many are considering coming. Everyone is welcome, even if you just want to come to see/hear the systems.

    dlr

    DIY New England
    WinPCD - Windows .NET Passive Crossover Designer

    Dave's Speaker Pages

  • #2
    One last note to remind you that DIY NE is tomorrow morning.

    dlr
    WinPCD - Windows .NET Passive Crossover Designer

    Dave's Speaker Pages

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    • #3
      Really looking forward to this! See you tomorrow


      Cheers,
      - John

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      • #4
        Originally posted by dlr View Post
        One last note to remind you that DIY NE is tomorrow morning.

        dlr
        Have a blast everybody. I'm sad that I can't make it to this one. Headed to the airport. I have a new set using the RS 225s that Michael Price gave me. I guess i'll save them for next time.
        Dave, thanks again for hosting. I'll be there in spirit.
        The first one through the wall always gets the bloodiest...

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        • #5
          Hope everyone has a good time there today. Looks like an absolutely beautiful neck of the woods... should be a nice ride up with the leaves changing.
          I wish I was going. Maybe next year if it's an annual thing.
          Hopefully some pics will be posted.
          TomZ
          *Veneering curves, seams, using heat-lock iron on method *Trimming veneer & tips *Curved Sides glue-up video
          *Part 2 *Gluing multiple curved laminations of HDF *Cello's Speaker Project Page

          *Building the "Micro-B 2.1 Plate Amplifier -- Part 1 * Part 2 * Part 3 * Part 4 * * Part 5 'Review' * -- Assembly Instructions PDF

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          • #6
            That was fun. I bought 5 albums today so I could experience more of the music we listened to. Thanks to Dave for hosting us again.

            It was really cool to see/hear the crossover adjustments (without much of a wait) on Dave's interchangeable mid/tweeter units and Mike A's speakers. I guess digital crossovers are taking over.

            Tom, your speculation was right, it is really pretty around his place. (It was oddly warm towards the end of last week, but now that we had DIY New England, it feels like fall again.) I didn't bring my camera this time, but Dave took some pictures.

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            • #7
              Yes agreed, many thanks to Dave for opening up his place for this gathering. It was small this time, but this allowed for more listening to each system and also more discussion about them. I always learn something new when attending DIY events, but even more so at this event, given the intimate gathering and setting.

              As Mike P mentioned, active systems were center of the day, as were three-ways. I was the throw back, bringing my horizontal monitors with passive XOs.

              Mike A and Mike P brought a stand-mount 3-way with Hiq OW1 tweeter, small format mid (make which I did not capture), and SEAS ER18RNX woofers. A nice complement of drivers, and well put together in reasonably sized cabs. But the star of this setup is the active crossover implemented in python script and associated python and C libraries running on a raspberry pi 3. This was software they created on their own and not an off the shelf software package. Mike A was able to make adjustments to the crossover by changing parameters in his code on his macbook (I think the Rpi and Mac were using his phone as a wifi access point). The system, which is a work in progress, also included a Sure 6-channel amp board and USB sound card (not specifically designed for raspberry pi, but on a circuit board similar in size). As a WIP, it's probably not fair to evaluate for SQ, but what I heard sounded good and offers great promise, particularly as they refine the software and iterate on improving and optimizing components, like the power supply.

              As mentioned, Dave demonstrated an interchangeable active system that was actually 3-systems-in-1. The base (or bass) of it all are dipole, H-frame woofers (15" I think?), two per side. The first tweeter+mid module on top were dipole mids (Revelator) + SEAS DXT tweeter. This combination sounded fantastic. Very open and dynamic, with great detail.

              Next module had a smaller mid (Scanspeak, I think, about 3-4") in monopole configuration with Hiq OW1 tweeter. This sounded very different than the dipole module. The upper XO was LR2 and for kicks, Dave changed this to LR8 on his PC running Ultimate Equalizer software (try doing LR8 with a passive XO!), and we listened some more. Immediately the midrange became clearer and more well defined. Pretty much all there heard this.

              Last module had Scanspeak tweeter (9300 or 9500) and a 4-5" fiberglass mid (apologies for not getting the exact driver models...these are in a higher-end space I generally do not play in), like the second module also in a sealed box. These sounded very neutral and balanced and I would be very happy listening to this configuration over the long-term, but then we then ended by putting the dipole module back in just to get one more listen. These were magic!
              Last edited by jclin4; 10-23-2016, 06:22 PM.

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              • #8
                I liked your speakers a lot, they were solid all around (and I appreciate the cabinet design and finish... creative, but not *too* creative). The damped open back let the midrange "spread out" a bit, and we were able to position the speakers wide apart to get a big soundstage without it collapsing to the left/right. Pretty impressive considering there weren't any costly components in there. These, among a few other designs I've seen recently, have enlightened me about the virtues of small 3-ways (as long as you are brave enough to tackle the mid/woofer crossover). Now you just need to try an active crossover.

                As far as Dave's speakers, they were quite an experience to listen to; all of the permutations were technically excellent, and we were able to make comparisons that explored the realm of perception and differing tastes. I was of two minds about the first TM module. I like the focus of the DXT tweeter, and it played clean and loud (preserving the bite on electric guitars, without bothering your ears). The sound from the dipole 15W[?] midrange was incredibly clean and spacious (another word that came to mind is "liquid"). In fact, Dave mentioned that he had matched the polar response of the tweeter to the front half of the polar response of the mid. So they were perfectly integrated tonally, but I felt a bit of a spatial disconnect between the monopole treble and dipole mid. I found the second module (12M/OW1) with monopole mids to be more comforting even though they were not as outwardly impressive. I preferred the LR8 version to the LR2 version, which sounded a bit subdued (or maybe compressed) in the midrange by comparison. And the third module (with the Kevlar mid) was interesting too. The highs didn't have the "Technicolor" detail of the OW1 and voices were very similar tonally, but perhaps slightly less clean. It was really interesting to listen to the (mostly subtle, sometimes mildly obvious) variations between speakers that all had quality drivers and a ruler flat frequency response.

                I remember thinking the bass section (H-frame) was pretty strong, but that this is the way most larger speakers sounded in that room. It was a nice quality bass, much more even than what I can get in my room. (I guess in my room I have about the same broad balance, but all of the bass is around 40 Hz, so the upper bass is leaner.) We got those woofers moving (with, what was it, Pink Floyd?).

                I liked the tone of Mike A's speakers, they sounded plain and neutral. He was just getting started on the crossover but I thought it was an improvement from the last time I listened at his place. It was also a big help to use the digital input and avoid going through an extra ADC. However, the bass made me scratch my head a bit, wondering if there was a phase issue. All the other speakers sounded richer to me, and I'm not sure why--maybe part of this was the quality of the DAC and amplifiers. We'll keep working on them, and post some more information about the Raspberry Pi crossover setup and build photos in the near future ... I guess he has to decide what they should be called first! (The midrange is a Scanspeak 10F/8414.)

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                • #9
                  This is like playboy mag without pictures.
                  Pictures please!
                  http://www.diy-ny.com/

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by r-carpenter View Post
                    This is like playboy mag without pictures.
                    Pictures please!
                    I have photos (none that would ever show up in Playboy!) and will put up a page soon. But yeah, pictures are worth 1000 words.

                    dlr
                    WinPCD - Windows .NET Passive Crossover Designer

                    Dave's Speaker Pages

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                    • #11
                      Well......it is speaker porn.
                      Kenny

                      http://www.diy-ny.com/
                      DIY NY/NJ 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGwA...ature=youtu.be
                      Man does not live by measurements alone, a little music helps.

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                      • #12
                        I am sorry I missed this event, I've been wanting to go for a while. Just had too much going on in my life. Hopefully next time.

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                        • #13
                          I've added a page with pictures and some descriptions of the systems at DIY NE this year. I've included the comments of jclin4 and Michael P. from this thread in the page, so those are verbatim copies of what they said here.

                          DIY NE 2016 Pictures

                          dlr
                          WinPCD - Windows .NET Passive Crossover Designer

                          Dave's Speaker Pages

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                          • #14
                            Hi Dave,

                            I looked up your pictures and descriptions in http://diyne.speakerdesign.net/diy20...2016_pics.html

                            It is impressive what you have managed to accomplish with UE5 and good, reliable Delta410 soundcard.
                            I am glad you enjoy the outcome and so the other listeners.

                            Best Regards,
                            Bohdan

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by bohdan View Post
                              Hi Dave,

                              I looked up your pictures and descriptions in http://diyne.speakerdesign.net/diy20...2016_pics.html

                              It is impressive what you have managed to accomplish with UE5 and good, reliable Delta410 soundcard.
                              I am glad you enjoy the outcome and so the other listeners.

                              Best Regards,
                              Bohdan
                              Once I got past the hurdle of the old XP PC board causing the sound card issue, it's been quite a difference.

                              The Delta 410 Win7 driver has some problems, so I would recommend anyone else to go for any of the newer options. Of course the 410 is obsolete, but they're probably easy to find on ebay. The most recent puzzling problem came about after I created a new, non-admin account to use. The card came up as only being capable of 48K. Nothing would change that, even reinstalling the driver. The odd thing is that with a 44.1K input, it would show sync, but at 48K. The admin account started showing the same thing.

                              Eventually I tried the UE at 44.1k setting in the preferences anyway and it performed successfully, despite the driver dashboard saying it was locked at 48K. So it is still working, but the driver (last Vista 6.0.8) is quirky. Sine it works, so I'll continue to use the 410. I had plans for a 4-way plus sub, so the Delta 1010 that I have will eventually be in use.

                              dlr
                              WinPCD - Windows .NET Passive Crossover Designer

                              Dave's Speaker Pages

                              Comment

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