Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

How important is it to recess the drivers into the front baffle?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • How important is it to recess the drivers into the front baffle?

    I'm new here so please be gentle with me if this is a stupid question. Would the sound difference between having recessed drivers and un-recessed drivers be noticeable to the average Joe? Thanks for your input.

  • #2
    Hello and welcome. The most important driver to recess is the tweeter, which can have a significant impact on sound. If you really don't want to recess your tweeters (like me), look for tweeters that either have a very small face plate, or have a face plate that is meant to be surface mounted, like the Beston RT003C.
    https://www.parts-express.com/beston...eeter--277-114
    Eric L.

    Comment


    • #3
      I would also add that the diffraction effects from not recessing a tweeter with a large face plate can be pretty extreme and indeed audible. Here's a good article on the matter.
      http://www.zaphaudio.com/mtg-surface.html
      Eric L.

      Comment


      • #4
        The primary intent is to prevent the sound waves that wrap around the driver frame and then reflect off the baffle from meeting the original waves sufficiently out of phase to cause cancellations, but the frame would have to be quite thick for that to occur. It's more of an issue with tweeters that produce very short wavelengths than woofers or midranges.

        www.billfitzmaurice.com
        www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

        Comment


        • #5
          Real-world data:
          http://www.zaphaudio.com/mtg-surface.html

          [edit:I should read the entire thread to see that this was already posted.]
          "I just use off the shelf textbook filters designed for a resistor of 8 ohms with
          exactly a Fc 3K for both drivers, anybody can do it." -Xmax

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by coopman View Post
            I'm new here so please be gentle with me if this is a stupid question. Would the sound difference between having recessed drivers and un-recessed drivers be noticeable to the average Joe? Thanks for your input.
            To the average Joe.... therein lies the real question. I believe the main difference is additional frequency response ripple both on and off axis. The ripple is noticeable in measurements, but to the casual listener... probably not so much. The change may end up in subjective opinions, like "this speaker has more air", or "this speaker seems shouty in the mids". IMO... that can happen from a bunch of other things as well, most importantly your room and speaker placements.

            When it comes down to it, to me building is about doing the best I can with the resources available. So if I have the resource to flush mount my drivers, I'll do it if only to eliminate that tiny factor from the end result. (plus it looks nice)

            Even in the worst of Zaph's graphs, the difference is within +-3dB. That's enough to notice in a direct A/B comparison, but probably just a slight change in subjective character of the speaker when you don't have a direct comparison.
            Last edited by wogg; 01-25-2017, 02:56 PM. Reason: After checking Zaph's graphs..
            Electronics engineer, woofer enthusiast, and musician.
            Wogg Music
            Published projects: PPA100 Bass Guitar Amp, ISO El-Cheapo Sub, Indy 8 2.1 powered sub, MicroSat, SuperNova Minimus

            Comment


            • #7
              This thread got me to thinking of something I wondered once before. What happened to Zaph or where did he go? Seems most of the stuff on his website is from a good while back. Did he once frequent this forum or one of the others? I know Madi carries a driver and some kits he designed. Just curious.
              My "No-Name" CC Speaker
              Kerry's "Silverbacks"
              Ben's Synchaeta's for Mom
              The Archers
              Rick's "db" Desktop CBT Arrays
              The Gandalf's

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm pretty sure that once John created and started having his custom-designed drivers sold by Madisound, he thought it appropriate to discontinue measuring and critiquing drivers from other manufacturers.
                Paul

                Originally posted by Kevin K. View Post
                This thread got me to thinking of something I wondered once before. What happened to Zaph or where did he go? Seems most of the stuff on his website is from a good while back. Did he once frequent this forum or one of the others? I know Madi carries a driver and some kits he designed. Just curious.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Paul K. View Post
                  I'm pretty sure that once John created and started having his custom-designed drivers sold by Madisound, he thought it appropriate to discontinue measuring and critiquing drivers from other manufacturers.
                  Paul


                  I think you are right on that. I really hoped that John continued with his product line, adding in a woofer and tweeter. Zaphs midwoofer is a great value.
                  "I just use off the shelf textbook filters designed for a resistor of 8 ohms with
                  exactly a Fc 3K for both drivers, anybody can do it." -Xmax

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Paul K. View Post
                    I'm pretty sure that once John created and started having his custom-designed drivers sold by Madisound, he thought it appropriate to discontinue measuring and critiquing drivers from other manufacturers.
                    Paul


                    But it is a shame we don't have his input, insight, opinion in this forum or others. There are other people that contribute to this forum that have commercial
                    ​interests ( I feel the more the better ). That is his choice, hope he would want to get back to the forums.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Kevin K. View Post
                      This thread got me to thinking of something I wondered once before. What happened to Zaph or where did he go? Seems most of the stuff on his website is from a good while back. Did he once frequent this forum or one of the others? I know Madi carries a driver and some kits he designed. Just curious.

                      Bringing a new driver to life plus making an assortment of designs can probably burn a guy out for awhile. I corresponded with him recently and he's doing well, and his drivers are selling well too. I imagine he'll get the bug and pop back up. I keep bugging him to come out with a ZA22 but so far he hasn't taken the bait
                      ~Brandon

                      Soma Sonus
                      DriverVault

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Paul K. View Post
                        I'm pretty sure that once John created and started having his custom-designed drivers sold by Madisound, he thought it appropriate to discontinue measuring and critiquing drivers from other manufacturers.
                        Paul


                        It seemed like he was pretty dedicated to the hobby (just an assumption based off of his website) and then it stopped. This left me curious as to why. What you are suggesting makes sense. I believe a lot of guys have used the measurements and information on his website to help make decisions on speakers they might want to build. He obviously must have spent a good deal of time creating all of that. I enjoyed visiting his website numerous times. Hopefully he and his driver line are doing well. His midwoofer is a great performer for the money and it's certainly not hard to look at.

                        Thanks for the responses fellas.
                        My "No-Name" CC Speaker
                        Kerry's "Silverbacks"
                        Ben's Synchaeta's for Mom
                        The Archers
                        Rick's "db" Desktop CBT Arrays
                        The Gandalf's

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If you are not going to recess a driver due to a measurable, but not fully quantified or understood result, it should be as a design decision where you are willing to trade off the bad for what you feel is good.

                          Like V. Dickenson did in the LDC V7 with his study and informal listening impressions of different cabinet edge types! His conclusion was that a square edge (blasphamy to us types), round overs, and bevels all have a signature and measure different....Yet none were "bad".

                          Leads to what Wogg has stated where usually it will show to the ears as something like "a little more or less air".

                          In the end. It is a fairly important to recess since it is a detail that contributes to the sound and will provide a better, more desirable result when talking measured, and cohesive results of the design as a whole.

                          Tl;Dr - If you need to for reasons that will improve the design elsewhere, it wont kill the design, but is a detail that needs to be tied up if you can.
                          .

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yes, recess your tweeters. If you need help doing so, find out if any of us live near by to where you will live - I would be happy to help you make your baffles and I'm sure I'm not the only one here who would be willing to do so.

                            Originally posted by augerpro View Post
                            Bringing a new driver to life plus making an assortment of designs can probably burn a guy out for awhile. I corresponded with him recently and he's doing well, and his drivers are selling well too. I imagine he'll get the bug and pop back up. I keep bugging him to come out with a ZA22 but so far he hasn't taken the bait
                            Thanks for the news. Many of us would like to see Zaph come back to being active in our online community - I imagine hardly any of us have even the least bit of concern that he will add "but my driver is better" and the end of every evaluation he does, I don't even expect he would fudge the results to make other brands look worse :P

                            As I mentioned in another thread, it's quite disappointing how many valued individuals seemed to have ducked out all within a period of a few years.
                            "...this is not a subwoofer" - Jeff Bagby ;)

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X