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  • DC200 designs

    In dire need of decent speakers in the music room, budget is $200 cap for parts, I'd like to be able to get loud enough to listen to music while playing drums. I was shooting for f3 = 40Hz, and 104db at the excursion limit. So far this is looking like a pair of DC200's in a box with a DC28F. I'm open to a 3-way if it'll fit the budget. I already have a pair of 2khz crossovers from an old project laying around, but can get something else if this turns into a 3-way.

    In WinISD, I've run 2x DC200's in a 4ft box tuned to 29hz, and that yields f3 = 28hz, 104db w/ 31w. I've also run a pair of DC200's in a sealed 1ft box, qtc 0.865, which provides a nice flattening of the excursion limit without getting too bumpy, and yields an f3 = 56 Hz, hitting 107db wth 50w.

    I'm actually kind of leaning towards the sealed box for the higher volume / power limit (and space). It's low enough that if I want to add a sub later, I can, and the crossover could be low enough to be a true subwoofer. This is going in the music room, a room piled full of drums, guitars and amps that my wife rarely ventures into. I could get away with a 4ft box, but with available wall/foor space - I'd prefer to go no bigger than about 2ft.

  • #2
    Try to google the "Dayton 8" (by Dave Tennie - sp?). THOSE were in 4-5cf, but they can be made smaller (at the expense of extension). Your 2-way XO won't be up to this task though, you'd have to assemble a custom one. Easy schmeezie.

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    • #3
      Dayton 8's are great budget speakers. I think someone squeezed them into 2.8 cubes without giving up much extension
      Builds - C-Killa - Speedsters - LithMTM - Talking Sticks - Pocket Rockets - Khanspires - Dayton RS Center - RS225/28A - Kairos - Adelphos - SEOS TD12X - Dayton 8 - Needles - 871S - eD6c - Overnight Sensations - Tritrix (ported) - Lineup F4 - Stentorians - The Cheapies - Tub Thumpers - Barbells - Tuba HT - Numerous subwoofers - probably missing a few...... :p

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      • #4
        Your crossover won't give you satisfactory results.

        http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...0867-dayton-8s

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        • #5
          Not to discourage your project as I am all about building speakers.... But as a drummer, I find a good set of big over the ear headphones does a much better job. You can hear the track much better and if you are playing in a small room it protects your hearing a little. I also used them for monitors while practicing, because in a small room my drums completely covered up the guitar and bass to where I couldn't hear them, so even a simple single cardioid mic hanging from the ceiling near the guitar and bass amps or a PZM on the floor or wall ran into a mixer+headphones really opened up what I could hear. You can buy plenty of decent cans for that price, the ATH-M50X come to mind.

          If you want to go the speaker route, an off the shelf crossover is likely going to not do well unless you have the option to EQ them quite a bit. I would design a custom XO if you can, or have someone help you do it. Don't know about where you live, but around me there are PA speakers on craigslist all the time for peanuts, especially Peavey, CV, and Behringer stuff and these will keep up with a drum kit much better than hifi drivers will.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by swarrfrat
            RS225 is actually looking a bit more space/cost efficient. I saw a couple MTM's with that one, but a single RS225 and a tweeter fits in a 1.3ft^3 box @ 40 Hz for an f3 = 42Hz and excursion limit of 108db. As for the recommendation for PA - the primary use is listening to music. A quick google search reveals, it's tough to get an f3 under 70Hz for under $500.
            WinISD: An RS225-8 in a 1.5 ft3 ported box tuned to 30 Hz deilvers ~30 Hz F3.

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            • #7
              I didn't plug it in and look at the curve... But a few things to consider. Room gain will likely bring up the low end and the bigger box should go deeper. While 80 watts vs 50 watts might sound like a lot, the difference isn't enough to raise the speaker's output by another 3db. It would take 100 watts to make much of a noticeable difference over 50 watts. I would look at it like this.... Have a subwoofer? Then go for the extra power handling in a smaller cabinet with higher tuning. No sub? Go for the frequency extension and forget about the extra 30 watts. Mike's suggestion will probably be flatter in-room while going deeper.

              As far as PA speakers, many 15" PA speakers can hit your target. Just saw a pair of mint 15" 3-way Cerwin Vega PA speakers go for $150 on my local craigslist last week and see stuff like that often. Granted most of these aren't going to be as smooth as a good hifi speaker. Compression tweeters generally aren't as good as domes. But they will more than keep up without flinching and usually cost peanuts.

              If you truly want hifi, you're probably going to want to design an XO from scratch or build someone else's design rather than use an off the shelf XO.

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              • #8
                Also a TriTrix MTM TL in room produces good bass to the low 40's thanks to it's transmission line design and should hit or exceed your SPL target on 60 watts. The component only kit is $150. If you buy the kit with the knockdown cabinets, they are $279. They'll sound far better than anything using an off the shelf XO.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by swarrfrat
                  Yeah, but you can get another 30 watts into it in the smaller box, with a little bit flatter curve within the band. 1.5ft/30Hz is excursion limited to 51w at 45 Hz. AND it's a smaller box.
                  Agreed on the xmax watt limit, but exceeding that by 1mm using the extra 30 W shouldn't be an issue. I don't see the "flatter curve", just the opposite a 3 dB hump circa 45 Hz.

                  I looked at "The Statements" and they use 1.75ft3 per RS225 tuned to 24 Hz. It has excursion issues akin to the 1.5 ft3 box but goes deeper yet while trailing off. Presumably room gain allows this speaker to to really shine in the low end.

                  And deeper bass gives the impression of a louder speaker.

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                  • #10
                    Used CV monkey coffins or used passive PA will get you there. You might have to learn how to use an EQ, though.

                    The DC-200 is not exactly a high output driver, at least not if you want them to keep up while drumming.
                    Don't listen to me - I have not sold any $150,000 speakers.

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                    • #11
                      I'm starting to like the Tritrix TL idea. Reading up on that one now, only vaguely aware of TL's.

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                      • #12
                        I found a pair of Cerwin Vega V-35's for $400/pr - 18" horn loaded boxes - a little big (24x20x36), a little over budget, and a bit of a drive but I think I'll keep looking. I got another month to look before the trickle charge on the toy fund hits the Tri-trix kit.

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                        • #13
                          I try to stay away from "self promoting" my own designs most of the time, but you might try the Silverbacks. The only reason I am here is because I think it is going to be hard to find a design in your price range that gives you the kind of output you want without a lot of sacrifices in either bass extension, distortion, or polar response (like using an 8-10" driver to get enough sensitivity in a 2-way) I think this will fill almost everything you are looking for. Drivers and crossovers, before shipping, come in around $225-$250 depending on what you use in the crossover. They can take a bunch of power and get plenty loud. We had them cranked pretty high at this past Meniscus get-together and they didn't have much problem. You also get the benifit of a 3-way, which means lower distortion in the midrange while you are cranking it. You can build in a more standard box, and while they won't be the prettiest speaker that way, they will still work just fine as long as you put a nice 3/4" roundover or better on the sides of the cab.

                          http://www.pursuitofperfectsound.com/silverbacks.html
                          -Kerry

                          www.pursuitofperfectsound.com

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                          • #14
                            Thanks for that. Certainly looks interesting.

                            Still stuffing drivers into winISD but as far as low, low, and not huge - it helps that I have some power available if I go that route. Today I was playing around with a 3-way with a pair of DCS205 8" subs, but mids that won't blow the budget are scarce. A single DCS205 with a pair of PA165's could hit 109db w/ f3 = 37Hz. I'm not sure if I can cross over a DCS205 at 200 Hz though - it's already rolling off by then. If I can cross the PA165 over at 200 Hz, then it's thermally limited and a good match for the DCS205 in a biamp configuration, 150w / 75w., total box volume is around 1ft, and total driver cost is $182 w/ ND28f tweeters. This one is starting to look like a winner. It does require biamping, but that DCS205 is a real winner when it comes to cheap, deep, small, and enough power handling to make up for the efficiency.


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by swarrfrat View Post
                              Thanks for that. Certainly looks interesting.

                              Still stuffing drivers into winISD but as far as low, low, and not huge - it helps that I have some power available if I go that route. Today I was playing around with a 3-way with a pair of DCS205 8" subs, but mids that won't blow the budget are scarce. A single DCS205 with a pair of PA165's could hit 109db w/ f3 = 37Hz. I'm not sure if I can cross over a DCS205 at 200 Hz though - it's already rolling off by then. If I can cross the PA165 over at 200 Hz, then it's thermally limited and a good match for the DCS205 in a biamp configuration, 150w / 75w., total box volume is around 1ft, and total driver cost is $182 w/ ND28f tweeters. This one is starting to look like a winner. It does require biamping, but that DCS205 is a real winner when it comes to cheap, deep, small, and enough power handling to make up for the efficiency.

                              Not to discourage you from going your own way, but you wrote you wanted "room filling, full spectrum, louder than bookshelf speakers, hifi not audiophile rock n roll speakers is what we're shooting for here."

                              If you want something that sounds HiFi and not just loud, you'll want a proper crossover. An off-the-shelf crossover is a very poor solution that in all honesty, only provides enough protection to not damage the drivers in most instances and even that is subject sometimes. Do you already have any of those drivers? If not, I would seriously consider using one of the designs proposed by someone here unless you have the skills to design a crossover yourself or want to learn how.
                              -Kerry

                              www.pursuitofperfectsound.com

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