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InDIYana 2017 Fallout/Precursory InDIYana 2018 Theme Poll....

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  • InDIYana 2017 Fallout/Precursory InDIYana 2018 Theme Poll....

    Feel free to write your thoughts on the recently past InDIYana 2017 event. I know some were placed in the original 2017 event thread, and that's okay too. I just feel we can consolidate the ending thoughts here now that we've had a week to process the fun we had last weekend. I will be updating this thread with pictures, links to the previous pertinent information, as well as some thoughts of my own.

    As to the poll for the 2018 Theme...

    Kenny- FR drivers have been done before, so I'm opting out of that idea at this time.
    I currently have 5 themes of interest, some of which have been communicated prior in discussion, some have not.

    1- Alternate Reality: Omni/open-back/cardioid/Transmission Line, etc midrange; Basically, use a midrange in an unusual or less common applied design. Of course- this would be a 3-way theme. Likely a $250 driver limit. I want this to be cheaper as there aren't many open-back or whatever of these types that are inexpensive to build. I think $250/pair is reasonable for drivers. 2.5ft^3 max.

    2- To 11 and Beyond: High Sensitivity designs. Dayton DIY did this in 04. I'm referring to refined and detailed with incredible output and dynamic capabilities. Waveguides likely apply, but are not required. Waveguides or horns cost would be an included factor.
    -92dB sensitivity minimum, higher preferred. Multiple drivers allowed.
    -3.5ft^3 or less.
    -Being that previous 2015 Widebodies $600 was enough to spur conversation of the 11 category, I'll likely stick with that mark. Pro drivers can get more costly faster. No more than $200/driver.

    3- Shelved Limits: Yes- you read that right! Use an off the shelf xover, no I don't care which one. Xover cost is included in the build cost, which is limited to $300. Hopefully some vendors will be kind enough to assist in this endeavor by allowing us to know the values of the parts on the boards. I don't care what drivers you use as long as they are $150 or less, and aren't the buyouts or NLA as is always the MO for InDIYana. Here's the kicker- You are allowed to use one part that is not a resistor somewhere in the adapted design in addition to the shelf units themselves, as well as resistors for level adjustment. Bookshelves or stand mounts, please. This makes it easier for the theme competition management. Xover must remain intact. 1.5ft^3 max. Xover must not be NLA or buyout, and easily procurable.

    4- Deep and wide: Design a stand-mount passive 2-way speaker with an 8-10" woofer and a 2-4" wide-band driver or full range. Please keep this under 1ft^3. $300 limit per cab/<$150 per driver. Multiple woofers okay, not widebanders.

    5- Keeping up with the Jones's: Andrew Jones, that is. Along with the likes of TAD, ELAC, Tannoy, KEF, SEAS, and Insignia(); Use a Coax MT and a woofer from 6.5-10" in size and design a fairly untapped DIY market design. <$200 per coax, and <$150 for the woofer- each. $300 limit per cab. Stand mount preferred but not required, 2ft^3 or less. I left the cab limit at $300, so if you want to spend more on the coax, you have to spend less on the woofers. I think that's fair.

    Now- share your thoughts from a week ago, and vote for next year!
    Later,
    Wolf

    FINAL!
    5. "Keeping up with the Jones's" is the official 2018 InDIYana theme!
    42
    1- Alternate Reality
    23.81%
    10
    2- To 11 and Beyond
    4.76%
    2
    3- Shelved Limits
    19.05%
    8
    4- Deep and Wide
    14.29%
    6
    5- Keeping up with the Jones's
    38.10%
    16

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by Wolf; 07-18-2017, 06:11 PM.
    "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
    "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
    "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
    "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

    *InDIYana event website*

    Photobucket pages:
    http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

    My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

  • #2
    I'm super intrigued by a coax design. I haven't done one yet.

    Comment


    • #3
      Question about 11 and beyond. Is 4 om nominal impedance OK? What range must be 92dB? I'm speculating from 500hz to 3k using gated measurements. Above and below could be at the designers discretion to achieve their desired voicing preference.

      Comment


      • #4
        I've been waiting for something like #3. There's a real opportunity to have a wide range of sound quality amongst the contestants. This gets my vote for sure. Can I assume with the addition of the other components, the original xo must remain intact? I won't miss next year's event, btw.

        Dan
        _____________________________
        Tall Boys
        NRNP Computer Sub
        The Boxers
        The Hurricanes
        The Baronettes
        Conneccentric
        UX3

        Comment


        • #5
          A few questions, #4 does "an" and "a" mean single full range and single woofer or are multiples allowed?
          John H

          SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by rpb View Post
            Question about 11 and beyond. Is 4 om nominal impedance OK? What range must be 92dB? I'm speculating from 500hz to 3k using gated measurements. Above and below could be at the designers discretion to achieve their desired voicing preference.
            4 ohms is fine. When I say 92dB, that means nominal reference sensitivity. Since most of us target a +/-3dB response from nominal level, this is tolerable. A best-fit curve (RMS) should approach a 92dB level across the board, IMO.

            I've been waiting for something like #3. There's a real opportunity to have a wide range of sound quality amongst the contestants. This gets my vote for sure. Can I assume with the addition of the other components, the original xo must remain intact? I won't miss next year's event, btw.

            Dan
            Yes- the xover must remain intact as it was purchased.

            A few questions, #4 does "an" and "a" mean single full range and single woofer or are multiples allowed?
            Multiple woofers would be fine, but a single wide-bander or full range only.

            Later,
            Wolf
            "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
            "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
            "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
            "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

            *InDIYana event website*

            Photobucket pages:
            http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

            My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
            http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

            Comment


            • #7
              Couple of quick thoughts on the 2017 event before I get to next years ideas. The theme format this year I think went really well. This was a joint venture between Ben, John H, and I as to how it would play out. For those that don't know, this is was "tournament" style, at least for the first round. With the large number of entries, we felt this would give us a much better outcome rather than trying to run through some 12 entries. We matched up similar styles/drivers for a head to head and took a hand count to determine the winner. This continued until we had pared the field down to 6. All entries played the same tracks and each was matched via pink noise to a reference level of 80 db. After the first round commenced, we broke for lunch. This gave us all a chance to "reset" our hearing. When we came back, we went straight thru the remainder and took a simple hand vote. Of course, as we know Bill (4th try) was the winner (and much deserved) with his very unusual Plumbers Delight.

              The level of builds coming out is more impressive every year. The high-end esoteric designs from Jeff B, Ben, Paul K, or Dan N, every one of these was stunning across the board. Jeffs Morel MTM, the Saphires, was extremely clean and crystal clear. I'm not sure I am a fan of Morels on the bottom octave, but I am a bass head and well it shows. Bens Cecropia Supreme was much better represented this year IMO. The really do sound amazing. Paul Ks Brisco is simply beautiful and sounded the part. I do think they could use a little more voicing, but that is just a personal opinion. The Scan and TL is a dynamite combo! This was the second time I have heard Dan N's Premios and I left more impressed this time from them. The depth and clarity of this build, not to mention Dans incredible workmanship is nothing less than spectacular.

              Even the entry or mid level designs were incredible. I was really impressed with Paul Cs TMM based on the DC160. Man did they pack a serious punch! John H and his 3L TL was quite impressive as well and again his craftmanship shines through. Kerrys Boomsticks did not disappoint. The bass level from the little RS100s was really good!

              My Hammer sub was not tuned well for the room and I forgot to lower the gain on the amp prior to playing it. OOPS! But I did receive great feedback on it and the MidNite Magics and the no-name rebuild I did with my friend Mike.

              I really do think this venue is much better than what we have used the 2 previous years. While smaller, the room suffered much less bass bloom. It was much more represenatative of a large living or family room and was quite easy to get to refrence levels. Having 3k of power on tap doesn't hurt either I want to thank all of you that attend these events. It really does mean a lot to me personally to see old friends, meet new ones, and simply have a chance to "geek out" for a weekend! And I want to thank all of our sponsors as well. The door prizes are simply icing on the cake for a great weekend!

              I am still undecided as far as a theme. All of them will be a challenge for sure. But I am leaning toward #3. This could really be an opportunity to develop a great entry level system to help someone getting into this rabbit hole of a hobby.
              https://www.facebook.com/Mosaic-Audi...7373763888294/

              Comment


              • #8
                Alternate reality! .... This looks really appealing because the designer is not shoehorned into buying oddball or one time use drivers. Build any 3-way you want with $125 worth of drivers per side. The only restriction is that the mid chamber is not sealed, or simply ported? It doesn't halve to be a weird open back design, but it can be. Freedom of choice... I like this one!

                Comment


                • #9
                  No- the midrange has to be open-back, TL, cardioid, IB, or Omni. (Other options?) Sealed and ported/PR do not apply in the conventional usage sense for direct/front radiation.

                  I don't see how you can make the other categories one-time use. I don't see that at all. Oddball? I don't see that either.

                  Oh- the coaxes can be any coax; prosound, automotive, concentric, 'custom', ring-radiator, etc; just not NLA or buyout.

                  Later,
                  Wolf
                  "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                  "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                  "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                  "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                  *InDIYana event website*

                  Photobucket pages:
                  http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                  My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                  http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It's pretty simple to make a short tube chamber for a midrange. Any midrange. Maybe even one that someone already owns, or that is on sale. Hundreds of affordable options. No restriction on box size, so most of us likely have a woofer to use already as well. A 2 cu-ft 3-way is even an option that could still fit in some cars! To meet the budget, one of the 3 drivers may need to be inexpensive to allow spending more for the others. This is challenging, but reasonable. Sounds like fun!

                    Coax drivers? I don't want to compete with someone willing to buy a $150 coax. I sure don't need speakers with a $50 coax at my house either. So that would be a one time use for me I guess, if I sold the drivers after the contest.

                    Deep and wide? Now there's potential fun, but no one's going to have a top end to write home about. I guess everyone could search for the best $150 2" driver, that's not called a tweeter. This is what I meant by oddball driver!

                    One last comment, and then I'll stay out of this. A person driving a truck to the event may have an unfair advantage in a contest where there is no size restriction. I'd like to see a 15" 3-way alternate reality design in a 5 cu-ft box, but that would require a truck.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'm assuming we can make our own coax by hanging a tweeter in front of a midrange?

                      I also assume that the categories can't overlap, meaning:
                      We can't have an open back mid/ tweeter in #3, #4, or #5?
                      We can't have an omni in #3, #4, or #5?

                      So the attached omni would not qualify as a coax or would it?
                      http://www.visaton.com/en/bauvorschl...ana/index.html

                      I seem to recall we wanted one entry per contestant, correct?

                      John H

                      SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by rpb View Post
                        It's pretty simple to make a short tube chamber for a midrange. Any midrange. Maybe even one that someone already owns, or that is on sale. Hundreds of affordable options. No restriction on box size, so most of us likely have a woofer to use already as well. A 2 cu-ft 3-way is even an option that could still fit in some cars! To meet the budget, one of the 3 drivers may need to be inexpensive to allow spending more for the others. This is challenging, but reasonable. Sounds like fun!

                        Coax drivers? I don't want to compete with someone willing to buy a $150 coax. I sure don't need speakers with a $50 coax at my house either. So that would be a one time use for me I guess, if I sold the drivers after the contest.

                        Deep and wide? Now there's potential fun, but no one's going to have a top end to write home about. I guess everyone could search for the best $150 2" driver, that's not called a tweeter. This is what I meant by oddball driver!

                        One last comment, and then I'll stay out of this. A person driving a truck to the event may have an unfair advantage in a contest where there is no size restriction. I'd like to see a 15" 3-way alternate reality design in a 5 cu-ft box, but that would require a truck.
                        Let's not get hasty here. I didn't say a spec size requirement for AR, but that doesn't mean that I won't have a final size limit if selected by the precursory poll. If we're doing a contest, then they have to be easily rotated in and out. I would not expect someone to make a 5ft^3 cab to be in a contest with $250 in drivers. That's silly. I want it to be easily and inexpensively replicated, hence the cost. Since you've centered on that point, I would hope people keep the volume under the same volume max (3.5ft^3) for the 11 and beyond. Anything larger than that is going to make this harder to run in a timely fashion. That said- less consumed volume would be preferred if applicable just to make the competition run smoother. Let's be reasonable. Alright, arm twisted- 2.5ft^3 max, just so it's stated. I'll update the poll criteria.

                        The only reason I said $150, is most of the concentric/pro drivers are $150 or less. This just caps the cost for 2 of the 3 drivers in the 3-way design, which means $75/driver roughly in the coax. And- you don't have to spend $150- I always make that clear!

                        Lots of 3" and 2" drivers do extend to 20k or close to that mark. Being that lots of people like the waveguides, I figured this is a very similar approach in dispersion matching.

                        I'm assuming we can make our own coax by hanging a tweeter in front of a midrange?

                        We can't have an open back mid/ tweeter in #2, #3, #4, or #5.
                        We can't have an omni in #2, #3, #4, or #5.

                        So the attached omni would not qualify as a coax or would it?
                        http://www.visaton.com/en/bauvorschl...ana/index.html

                        I seem to recall we wanted one entry per contestant, correct?
                        ^^^Fixed above a bit. Tweeter in AR is to remain direct-radiated, so this means that you can't coax as described in that category, and the 'mutually exclusive clause' still applies.
                        The Jones's category is to require coaxes to be direct radiated, so Omni radiation does not apply. Yes- you can suspend a tweeter of your choice in front of a mid, or adapt a driver to suit your needs. I'm even okay with modding to a 3-way along the same central axis if someone wants to attempt something like the Cabasse LaSphere.

                        Yes- Please, one theme entry per contestant from here on out. We've never had an issue with this prior to this year, but I can see where it really could have been a wrench in the flow of the contest this year. I'm not one to stifle creativity, so feel free to build more. I just can't see having more than one entered per person for the future themes.

                        Later,
                        Wolf


                        "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                        "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                        "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                        "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                        *InDIYana event website*

                        Photobucket pages:
                        http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                        My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                        http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Would a MTW or TMW with an OB mid closed back tweeter be OK? Clarify: tweeter and mid on the OB only.
                          Kenny

                          http://www.diy-ny.com/
                          DIY NY/NJ 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGwA...ature=youtu.be
                          Man does not live by measurements alone, a little music helps.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yes, Kenny- That would work for the AR requirements.
                            Wolf
                            "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                            "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                            "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                            "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                            *InDIYana event website*

                            Photobucket pages:
                            http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                            My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                            http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Any restriction on the tweeter being OB, for the AR? Dipole tweeter, open back tweeter?

                              Comment

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