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  • Sorry guys, our speakers are all obsolete.

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MAVVRRE..._i=15387335011

    Phantom replaces all existing systems. Use one Phantom as the best dock in the world. Use two Phantom as the best hifi system in the world. Use three Phantom or more to create the ultimate multi-room system.
    Francis

  • #2
    I think I saw those a while back... sound interesting. The laws of physics are against their assertion that it will output 3,000W, or 108dB down to 17Hz. I believe they will output deep bass at low volumes, and also believe they're using DSP tricks to limit the output as the volume goes up. This is all but confirmed with this review:

    I can't not write this review. I got very excited about this item after watching an MKBHD video on speakers (see youtube). I saw 3,000 watts (wow!) and what looked like two subwoofers? I love deep bass, and I love to "feel" my music. And so many reviews (especially that gushing article by Wired) seemed to confirm a great experience. I remained skeptical. And I'm glad I did. Phantom is about as disappointing as I expected it would be. It does get loud. It does sound good. You can hear the bass. You won't feel it a lot. It is not as good as any home hifi system, or likely any system with a dedicated subwoofer. Forget about it. As you make the Phantom louder...it just gets louder. It will hurt your ears. The music won't wash over your body like a wave, which is my favorite feeling with loud music. My AudioengineUSA A5's & S8 (2 self powered bookshelf speakers and a self-powered subwoofer) sound much better and at a fraction of the cost. And, I don't even want to try two Phantom Silvers together with the duo. I'm imagining an ear-nightmare. It'll just get more ear-piercing, and the bass will be extra disappointing. Those two things that seem to move air are not subwoofers. And there is no way to add a subwoofer to the set-up.
    Many folks don't care about the actual ability to move air though, as evidenced in other reviews that think it sounds awesome, at least for those that got the software to work correctly.

    Too expensive.. I'll stick with my "conventional" speakers and sub setups for a whole lot less money. Or.. go with the "Ultimate small speaker" build thread for your own solution like these.
    Electronics engineer, woofer enthusiast, and musician.
    Wogg Music

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    • #3
      It does say you can do a 45-day free in-home trial. Might be worth it to put it to the test.
      Isn't it about time we started answering rhetorical questions?

      Paul Carmody's DIY Audio Projects
      Twitter: @undefinition1

      Comment


      • #4
        It's too bad the Devialet Phantom is marred with hyperboles, because it is actually an engineering marvel. This speaker is a point source speaker that is about as close to diffraction free as it is possible. The dome shaped coaxial drivers solves a lot of problems with traditional coaxial designs with respect to diffraction and dispersion. Even the woofers are dome shaped to help with the diffraction. Getting a dome shaped woofer to have this much usable excursion without rocking problems and such extreme power handling is also quite the engineering feat. Then put all that, and ~1000W of amplifier power in a slick egg shaped enclosure is very impressive engineering wise.

        When properly set up what I heard from the Phantom easily competes and exceeds other speakers of its price class while being much smaller. Scoff at the price, but the starting price of $2000 is really cheap for a product of this level of engineering. They are literally reinventing the wheel with this speaker with the number of components that are not just custom, but completely different from everything else that exists off the shelf. In terms of engineering, this is probably the most heavily engineered speaker in the world. That's what happens when they throw $27 million in R&D at this speaker.

        They're not too far fetched in saying your stereos are obsolete. Active wireless speakers are the future for most home audio systems. They will be much smaller, much easier to use, and sound better than the old passive stuff. It is not just an optimal crossover and bass optimizations, but directivity control through DSP or massive distortion reduction through matching current drive amplifiers. My Reference Mini will serve to show what is possible, and when I'm done exploring all that can be done with an active system, hopefully in 1-2 years I can show a fully optimized active speaker using very affordable components that will far outperform the passive equivalent that will be a lot more approachable for most people.

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        • #5
          I heard these at AXPONA. They were in a small room off of the Pass amps and Magico S3 speakers in 2016. They had enough Xmax to make that room just *shudder*. As you turn it up, the F3 does increase on the bottom, but only marginally. I bet they were moving a half inch out of that egg. Thing is, I'm not so certain it wasn't a mono source, or both playing the same signal, because it seemed like there was no stereo separation. I know the newest Bluetooth allows for stereo, so that may have changed. I don't know if the tweeter and midrange were as flawless as I've become accustomed to, but it didn't sound bad. What they do well is bass from a small space.

          Later,
          Wolf
          "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
          "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
          "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
          "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

          *InDIYana event website*

          Photobucket pages:
          http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

          My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

          Comment


          • #6
            Looks like a marvel of system integration. I know the Cyclone V well, we used it in one of our last products. Lots of juice under the hood. I've been a big fan of FPGA approaches to signal processing for a very long time, glad to see it make its way more and more into audio. As shown in these products, the opportunity for configurability is enormous. It also greatly shortens development cost and time, easier to fix a bug in FPGA than in HW.

            The SAM idea has been around since at least the 90's, I patented an earlier incarnation:
            http://patents.justia.com/patent/6201873

            No idea who owns the patent now, but I hope Diavelet properly refer to it.

            Titanium dome tweeter is a bit of stretch to call best in world. At least one beryllium tweeter manufacture was caught cheating by using lesser Ti.

            Still, I love the ethic and design behind this. This is the sort of real thinking this industry needs to start making forward progress in engineering, beyond the advances brought by low cost manufacturing.

            Comment


            • #7

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              • #8
                Heard these in a NY audio show. Small room, near field listening, stereo set up...................not bad.............just not for 3k per.
                Kenny

                http://www.diy-ny.com/
                DIY NY/NJ 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGwA...ature=youtu.be
                Man does not live by measurements alone, a little music helps.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Listening to the above video, the speaker does not sound clean at all, especially in the bass. When you guys heard it live, was it like that?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Never seen one in person, so getting to watch it in action in that video helps.

                    I find it interesting how they did incorporate so many aspects that designers strive for (at least in theory) like coincident/time aligned drivers, no diffraction, dual-opposed woofers. The only thing missing is the non-parallel walls inside There's plenty for a speaker designer to appreciate.

                    I don't care for the industrial design of it AT ALL, however I can't help but wonder if we're sort of looking at the future. Like, how car buffs look to the Mercedes S-class to see what features will trickle down into common cars in 10-20 years.
                    Isn't it about time we started answering rhetorical questions?

                    Paul Carmody's DIY Audio Projects
                    Twitter: @undefinition1

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      4000$ for a pair, seem quite reasonalbe, considering how much an "average" person in this hobby has spend, if oyu include the various myraid of drivers, XO components, amps, wood, finishes etc that we need to churn out our speakers.... Plus these are quite small - think of all the free space you will have in your garage, basement and spare bedroom (which now now finally house guests or be put up on AirBnB!)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Let me alos throw in a couple or more future looking speakers, which though not as radical as the phantom, but are out there....

                        Heard the Phanton Last year, and these I heard this year at Axpona

                        Let's start with the smallest: Kii three. Boasts of Cardioid bass, fully active with DSP. http://kiiaudio.com/en/tech-acou.html

                        Next, a much larger system: Paradigm Persona 9H. Beryllium tweeter AND Mids with two bass driver and ARC built in (Anthem Room Correction). The ARC did make a difference in the lower bass

                        The Ultmate System: BeoLab 90. Simply Wow....! Especially the narrow sweet spot mode. http://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/colle...kers/beolab-90

                        The Phantom still remains the most affordable and looks the most non speakersy...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ani_101 View Post
                          Let me alos throw in a couple or more future looking speakers, which though not as radical as the phantom, but are out there....

                          Heard the Phanton Last year, and these I heard this year at Axpona

                          Let's start with the smallest: Kii three. Boasts of Cardioid bass, fully active with DSP. http://kiiaudio.com/en/tech-acou.html

                          Next, a much larger system: Paradigm Persona 9H. Beryllium tweeter AND Mids with two bass driver and ARC built in (Anthem Room Correction). The ARC did make a difference in the lower bass

                          The Ultmate System: BeoLab 90. Simply Wow....! Especially the narrow sweet spot mode. http://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/colle...kers/beolab-90

                          The Phantom still remains the most affordable and looks the most non speakersy...
                          And let me make a few technical comments on each of these speakers.

                          Kii Three - In my opinion this speaker has the most acoustical science and engineering behind it. The speaker achieves essentially full range directivity control with multiple drivers and judicious use of DSP. This full range directivity control provides huge real world sound quality improvements with not just much reduced room interactions, but also much reduced sensitivity to placement, especially distance to front wall due to the lack of sound radiating to the rear. It uses the best sounding class D amplifier on the market, the Hypex NCore, but the much bigger improvement is from something that is little known, a current drive amplifier, and the woofers are (and must be) optimized for current drive. This drastically reduces or eliminate various non linear distortions in the motor and third order harmonic distortion that leads to a 10-20dB reduction in distortion (!!) compared to a standard voltage drive amplifier. The amplifier has a variable output impedance that matches the woofer to provide even greater level of sound quality. Unfortunately I have not had an opportunity to hear this, but this speaker has been highly praised by many professional users, including Siegfried Linkwitz himself that described this speaker has the most accurate commercial speaker he's ever heard (and he has heard of the Beolab 90 before). This is the speaker I am striving towards, but unfortunately the current drive amplifier magic is just not DIYable.

                          Paradigm Persona 9H: There is nothing special about this speaker. I highly doubt that midrange is made of pure beryllium given how ridiculously expensive a pure beryllium tweeter is. They have a bookshelf speaker with that same 7" beryllium midrange that *only* sells for $7000. Very few bookshelf speakers under $7000 have any beryllium inside. I don't think the that's a valid dual oppose woofer arrangement to cancel mechanical vibrations. The DSP is only used for the woofers to correct frequency response. There is no innovation in this speaker. I've heard of the lower model 5F. It shares the same tweeter and midrange, and it did not impress me at all.

                          B&O Beolab 90. This speaker has the most advanced use of DSP of any speaker. The adjustable directivity through the arrayed top of the line drivers is just a beautiful sight of brute force solution to controlled directivity. No innovation on the drivers side, but at least they used all top dog drivers. The speaker sounds fantastic, and I don't think it was set up properly. I have a sick fantasy of recreating the top portion of the speaker, one day.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I heard that Kii speaker last year at Axpona. It was excellent.
                            Isn't it about time we started answering rhetorical questions?

                            Paul Carmody's DIY Audio Projects
                            Twitter: @undefinition1

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I must have been in the room at the wrong time, because I didn't like the Kii setup. I've heard many others say they liked it, and I would entertain it again if given the option.

                              Current-drive amplifiers are DIYable, and several projects have been published through DIYaudio or AudioXpress. I don't know how applicable they are to this situation though. It might be more specific in this particular case.

                              The Be comment seems sound, as I know the TAD are Be coaxes, and those are about $70K. That said- I've not heard a Paradigm that didn't sound 'overly benign'. Decent, but just muted-sounding to me.

                              I'd like to heard the Beo90 at some point, as well as the Kawero I missed 2 years ago.

                              Later,
                              Wolf
                              "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                              "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                              "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                              "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                              *InDIYana event website*

                              Photobucket pages:
                              http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                              My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                              http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                              Comment

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