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What distortion/Issues are you most sensitive to?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Wolf View Post
    Perfect midrange bite, flat tonal balance, maybe a touch emphasis in the bass depending on the design and requirements, low 3rd order HD, and mainly- tamed breakups.
    Not in any particular order,
    Wolf
    I find it curious that you mention low 3rd order distortion products, but also very much like the sound of the Hivi F5/F6 drivers, which are not particularly low in 3rd order distortion.

    Click image for larger version

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    Don't waste your money on a new set of speakers, you get more mileage from a cheap pair of sneakers. Next phase, new wave, dance craze, anyways it's still rock and roll to me!

    Comment


    • #17
      I've never heard the F5, but the F6 as measured in my Nephila does not look like that.



      Later,
      Wolf
      "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
      "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
      "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
      "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

      *InDIYana event website*

      Photobucket pages:
      http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

      My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

      Comment


      • #18
        Is sibilance due to breakup or some other mechanism? I don't hear it often, but one speaker I heard at InDIYana this year used an AMT tweeter and I thought it sounded sibilant. I found it irritating.

        Comment


        • #19
          Sssibilance could be breakup if in the right range, but typically it's an emphasis or higher magnitude between 6.5k and 8.5k. In the design you are referring to, I think it was the mini-8 tweeter, because that is all that was present in terms of AMTs this year. That tweeter has a limited bandwidth, and anything below 8k is rolled off. My guess is if the rolloff knee is not tamed well, theses will be sibilant often due to the undamped knee at the xover point.

          Later,
          Wolf
          "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
          "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
          "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
          "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

          *InDIYana event website*

          Photobucket pages:
          http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

          My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

          Comment


          • #20
            So you're saying its an uneven frequency response at the knee frequency, and not break-up?
            There weren't many AMT's there this time, but in the past I haven't heard this issue with them. I don't know if its this specific model, or something more general to the type of driver.

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            • #21
              What I'm referring to is the limited FR of the Mini-8, and a possibly undamped rolloff. It's only speculation on my part as I don't know exactly what it was you heard, but the Mini-8 in particular would be prone to this kind of issue where larger AMTs wouldn't due to their much larger bandwidth. I don't think any AMTs were there this year except the Mini-8.

              Later,
              Wolf
              "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
              "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
              "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
              "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

              *InDIYana event website*

              Photobucket pages:
              http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

              My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
              http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by mzisserson View Post


                I find the most engaging and enjoyable systems are the ones I do not have to blast myself out of the room with. They typically are 'high contrast' with a very quiet background and resolve extreme shades of musical 'color'. I believe there are several elements that add up to this.


                Spent too much time and money chasing something thay was not the issue. So be careful. It can happen.
                What speakers (and system amp, source, etc.) come closest to this?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Wolf
                  What I'm referring to is the limited FR of the Mini-8, and a possibly undamped rolloff. It's only speculation on my part as I don't know exactly what it was you heard, but the Mini-8 in particular would be prone to this kind of issue where larger AMTs wouldn't due to their much larger bandwidth. I don't think any AMTs were there this year except the Mini-8. Later, Wolf
                  Tom Z's Bantams (and MYM version) and Chuck's Midnite Magics both used an AMT.
                  -Kerry

                  www.pursuitofperfectsound.com

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    And the Bantam is a Mini-8 in mobile skin. I forgot about the Midnight Magic and the larger Dayton AMT.
                    Wolf
                    "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                    "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                    "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                    "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                    *InDIYana event website*

                    Photobucket pages:
                    http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                    My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                      I've never heard the F5, but the F6 as measured in my Nephila does not look like that.



                      Later,
                      Wolf
                      I hope you don't seriously think that the image you posted can be directly compared to the one I posted...btw your images still aren't posting correctly, I have to click on the broken image to view it on photobucket.
                      Don't waste your money on a new set of speakers, you get more mileage from a cheap pair of sneakers. Next phase, new wave, dance craze, anyways it's still rock and roll to me!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                        And the Bantam is a Mini-8 in mobile skin. I forgot about the Midnight Magic and the larger Dayton AMT.
                        Wolf
                        Oh, for some reason I was thinking the Mini-8 was the long thin one.
                        -Kerry

                        www.pursuitofperfectsound.com

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Maybe not directly, but the measured HD of the F6 applied in the Nephila does not look as bad. It's a valid measurement no less.
                          I'm showing you that 3rd order is lower in an applied system, and not high 3rd order.

                          I don't know what to do about the photo links.
                          Wolf
                          "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                          "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                          "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                          "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                          *InDIYana event website*

                          Photobucket pages:
                          http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                          My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by raiderone View Post

                            What speakers (and system amp, source, etc.) come closest to this?
                            There are several that come to mind, but it starts at the source.

                            One of the best systems to my ears included the following:

                            Parasound CD1 buffering transport
                            MSB Analog DAC
                            Some Cary Design 80 or 100WPC KT88 based amp
                            Vivid B1 loudspeakers

                            I think this effect could be had at a far lower price teir, but it was a shining example of a system working as a whole, not simple a bunch of good stuff slapped together.
                            .

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by dcibel View Post
                              I find it curious that you mention low 3rd order distortion products, but also very much like the sound of the Hivi F5/F6 drivers, which are not particularly low in 3rd order distortion.
                              I'm not very confident as to how accurate those distortion tests are. That plot has the notice on it, "note special measurement issues".
                              I came across graphs with this notice on them in the tweeter tests, and a second graph is offered in those cases.
                              The author states that the results are the same but they aren't. So, one plot or the other is wrong. Or, they're both wrong.
                              Wolf makes note that his results don't match these either.

                              Shawn


                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                                Maybe not directly, but the measured HD of the F6 applied in the Nephila does not look as bad. It's a valid measurement no less.
                                I'm showing you that 3rd order is lower in an applied system, and not high 3rd order.

                                I don't know what to do about the photo links.
                                Wolf
                                I can see the image in your post just fine.

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