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My Son's MWAF Entry: The Black Widows

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Wolf View Post
    Me likey! I love the Black Widow/red hourglass theme. That's 2 spider-referenced projects I'm aware of; Nephila and Black Widow. I've toyed with shaped cabs such as these before, but I haven't bit the bullet and done one yet.

    Engage!
    Wolf
    Glad you like them Wolf! If we have trouble with the X-overs I may call you for help.

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    • #17
      Looks like a cool design. I'm sure it will turn out great!
      -Kerry

      www.pursuitofperfectsound.com

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      • #18
        Very cool Kole!

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Navy Guy View Post
          Looks like a cool design. I'm sure it will turn out great!
          Originally posted by rickcraig View Post
          Very cool Kole!
          Thanks guys!

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          • #20
            Great idea to compare baffle shapes! Looking forward to seeing this come together.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Kevin K. View Post

              Very similar Nick. I figured someone had built enclosures in this shape before, we were just hoping no one had used the name and color scheme associated with this shape set. Will you be bringing yours to MWAF?
              Not this year, these ar destine to be a three or four piece system. This year I will be bringing some peanut shaped ones. I look forward to hearing yours.

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              • #22
                Had a little bit of time to work towards these. Built a normal/traditional style cabinet to be used for comparisons on measurements. It mimics the width of the new "C-Note" cabinets since they use the DSA135 also. The edges were treated with a 1/2" radius. Kole wasn't with me right after these were cut so I assembled the test cabinet for him, he soldered the wires to the drivers and mounted them in the cab that evening. We used a Mini-DSP to apply a quick crossover and I have to say the DSA135's do not disappoint in the bass department. Didn't have time to take any measurements this weekend but will get started on those one evening this week.

                Picked up this little adjustable stand for $30 from HD.

                http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-Fl...-100618242-_-N

                It works great to get the speaker centered in the room vertically for measurements. The top is a little wobbly due to it only having one pin. Thinking we will drill one more hole for an additional pin or just use a small clamp.



                We'll be getting started on building the Black Widows this next weekend. Had hoped we could build a test cabinet for them also but time is becoming a concern so they will probably end up being the real deals.

                BTW, pretty sure Kole was enjoying himself, he spent a couple of hours alone just listening to some of his music on the new speaker.
                My "No-Name" CC Speaker
                Kerry's "Silverbacks"
                Ben's Synchaeta's for Mom
                The Archers
                Rick's "db" Desktop CBT Arrays
                The Gandalf's

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                • #23
                  Lookin good fellas! I like the father-son duo you've got going on. Looking forward to seeing these in person at MWAF!
                  Voxel Down Firing with Dayton SA70

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                  • #24
                    Kole and I had a little fun tonight and played around with the rectangular test enclosure. Here are the measurements using the Mini-DSP to set the crossover points. Mic was one meter away centered on the tweeter. This was just tinkering so don't beat us up to bad over it. We found the mid's blended best using a 2nd order LR at 2200. The tweeter was third order BW at 3300. Not sure how these would line up phase wise. Remember as you read this stuff guys, I'm just as green as Kole is at crossovers so we will take all the advise and suggestions we can get. This first round was 2-way, will try playing around with a 2.5 way later this week. If you see anything really odd or strange looking about the measurements please point them out, thanks. BTW, no padding was applied on the tweeter.

                    Click image for larger version

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                    Disclaimer: The Omni mic track was played from the same computer I'm taking the measurements with. I'm hoping there is nothing in the background effecting the audio output but will check this again tomorrow night using an external CD player.

                    My "No-Name" CC Speaker
                    Kerry's "Silverbacks"
                    Ben's Synchaeta's for Mom
                    The Archers
                    Rick's "db" Desktop CBT Arrays
                    The Gandalf's

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      That is a nice stand. Does the top rotate for taking off axis measurements?

                      At a first glance the mini DSP looks good 200 and up though you can fill in those large ripples in the woofer at 400. And squish down the woofer breakup a bit more at 8k, it is still playing quite high. Also why is there tweeter output beyond 500? That should not be there.

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                      • #26
                        .I might try the DSA135, what f3 did you end up at?

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                        • #27
                          If you look, you can see that your drivers are summing +5 to +6dB at the crossover point. That indicates VERY CLOSE to OK for even order rolloffs. Unless further DSP adjustments change this, I'd call the phase "good".

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ani_101 View Post
                            That is a nice stand. Does the top rotate for taking off axis measurements?

                            At a first glance the mini DSP looks good 200 and up though you can fill in those large ripples in the woofer at 400. And squish down the woofer breakup a bit more at 8k, it is still playing quite high. Also why is there tweeter output beyond 500? That should not be there.
                            Thanks for chiming in Ani. No, the top only flips from vertical to horizontal on the stand. Figured for $30 it was worth it "as is" and could be modified to fit other needs. I'm thinking of bolting a larger platform on it and you could do the same with one of those swivel chair rollers if you wanted it to be able to rotate.

                            Yea, I still think I'm getting some kind of garbage from the laptop when I play the CD through it. It will be interesting to see how the measurements look again this evening with a separate CD player. As for the other adjustments you were suggesting, our goal for this speaker is passive first, we were just using the DSP to find what we thought would be a good targets for the filters.

                            After break in and measuring with DAT's, we simulated mid 40's for the F3 on the DSA135's.
                            My "No-Name" CC Speaker
                            Kerry's "Silverbacks"
                            Ben's Synchaeta's for Mom
                            The Archers
                            Rick's "db" Desktop CBT Arrays
                            The Gandalf's

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Chris Roemer View Post
                              If you look, you can see that your drivers are summing +5 to +6dB at the crossover point. That indicates VERY CLOSE to OK for even order rolloffs. Unless further DSP adjustments change this, I'd call the phase "good".
                              Thanks Chris. Guess the next thing to try is replacing the DSP with the passive components and see if we can come close to the same measurements. I'd still like to see if we can do the 2.5 way to put a little more emphasis on the bass for him.
                              My "No-Name" CC Speaker
                              Kerry's "Silverbacks"
                              Ben's Synchaeta's for Mom
                              The Archers
                              Rick's "db" Desktop CBT Arrays
                              The Gandalf's

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Kevin K. View Post

                                Thanks for chiming in Ani. No, the top only flips from vertical to horizontal on the stand. Figured for $30 it was worth it "as is" and could be modified to fit other needs. I'm thinking of bolting a larger platform on it and you could do the same with one of those swivel chair rollers if you wanted it to be able to rotate.

                                Yea, I still think I'm getting some kind of garbage from the laptop when I play the CD through it. It will be interesting to see how the measurements look again this evening with a separate CD player. As for the other adjustments you were suggesting, our goal for this speaker is passive first, we were just using the DSP to find what we thought would be a good targets for the filters.

                                After break in and measuring with DAT's, we simulated mid 40's for the F3 on the DSA135's.

                                Several comments. First thing I'd do is notch the woofer 8k peak, and compare the sound quality. Second, for measuring, move the speaker 3.5 feet or so from the wall if that picture shows where you measured it.

                                You can turn the speaker on it's side and get both of the woofers 4' from the boundaries. I'd plug the ports for a measurement and see if the dip at 400hz smooths out. If it does, then it would seem that some midrange is getting out through the port. Try gated measurements, and compare.

                                The noise in the tweeter measurement is not from the tweeter, it's maybe the air conditioner or something. The room is changing everything below about 300hz. You can pretty much ignore everything below 300hz. If you move the speaker, the response down low will change.

                                Try flipping the tweeter polarity, and see how deep the null is. I think that 10dB is adequate, and over 20dB is really quite good. If you get a 6 or 7dB null, then something is off.

                                If you measure about 40 degrees vertical above and below, you should get a null. This is sometimes faster than changing the tweeter polarity.

                                Make sure the carpet is not blocking cooling vents on the bottom of your amp!

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