Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

High Pass Capacitor Talk

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • High Pass Capacitor Talk

    Subjectively speaking only...which is more important to YOU? Do you prefer the close 1% tolerance that can be achieved in metalized polypropylene caps, or the "purer" signal that film & foil caps claim to achieve, forgiving their 5-10% tolerance? Or do you think electrolytics are just fine? Remember, I'm just asking about the high pass (tweeter) section of your x-overs.

    Forget about any measurements, this is strictly a subjective question. What do your ears tell you?

    My instincts tell me (since we're dealing with a stereo signal) that a close as possible tolerance is probably the most important factor. Your thoughts?

  • #2
    Double post. Ignore.

    Comment


    • #3
      Not meaning to hijack your thread, but I'd rather favor the very tight 1% tolerance be used on any HP resistors (direct impact on eff.) than worry about the exact location of knees in the FR controlled by the caps.
      Live in Southern N.E.? check out the CT Audio Society web site.

      Comment


      • #4
        Even mid-teir drivers can have way more unit to unit varition in the T/S parameters that you could hear in a 5% swing on a 10uF cap. ( 9.5uf-10.5uF) worst case. I find most components to be within 2% if eachother, and within tolerance even with inexpensive poly units, so tolerance is something I usually take with a grain of salt, but always do a sanity for to assure nothing is too wacky.
        .

        Comment


        • #5
          This thread looks totallytrolltastic.
          Craig

          The lowest possible F3 box alignment is not always the best alignment.

          Designing and building speaker projects are like playing with adult Lego Blocks for me.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by PWR RYD View Post
            This thread looks totallytrolltastic.
            It does? It's not meant to be. I'm not exactly sure why you think this. But, if you say this because you think arguments will flare up because of differing opinions about caps then can you please point to a diy site where ADULTS hang out. Geez, can't I ask a simple question about a simple electrical component without people jumping to conclusions? I only asked about caps because I'm trying to gain knowledge from people with more experience than me. I have just measured and designed my first ever (from the ground up) system, and was going to order the x-over parts for it. But before I ordered I wanted some experienced opinions about caps so I could determine which direction to go in. I guess asking honest questions and trying to learn is a no-no here. Thank you to the polite people that responded. And to PWR RYD, if you honestly think I'm just being a troll or something you have no need to worry or respond....I won't be back. This is only the second time I've asked a question on this board (the first one was asking advice about a x-over I designed using someone else's measurements), both times I've been treated like $hit. I use to read this board a lot many many years ago. It was a friendly place, where newbs and any questions were welcome with open arms. This hobby should be fun and relaxing, but you guys sure know how to kill the fun. Have a good one.

            Comment


            • #7
              Electrolytics suck.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi 40,

                You know, the specs are different from the caps. Almost all film caps I've measured are within 1% of marked rating, at least given my "hobbyist" level DATS V2.

                Based on simulation, it is very rare that 1% or 3% would really matter that much.

                A bigger issue IMHO is shunt caps and their ESR's which can really make crossovers look wonky if replaced indiscriminately, hard to find for the newbie.

                Also, my advice to anyone playing, try out some inexpensive caps like the Mundorf MKP caps as cheap upgrades. If you don't hear a benefit, stick with electrolytics.

                Best,

                E

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by 40_C_Major View Post

                  It does? It's not meant to be. I'm not exactly sure why you think this. But, if you say this because you think arguments will flare up because of differing opinions about caps then can you please point to a diy site where ADULTS hang out. Geez, can't I ask a simple question about a simple electrical component without people jumping to conclusions? I only asked about caps because I'm trying to gain knowledge from people with more experience than me. I have just measured and designed my first ever (from the ground up) system, and was going to order the x-over parts for it. But before I ordered I wanted some experienced opinions about caps so I could determine which direction to go in. I guess asking honest questions and trying to learn is a no-no here. Thank you to the polite people that responded. And to PWR RYD, if you honestly think I'm just being a troll or something you have no need to worry or respond....I won't be back. This is only the second time I've asked a question on this board (the first one was asking advice about a x-over I designed using someone else's measurements), both times I've been treated like $hit. I use to read this board a lot many many years ago. It was a friendly place, where newbs and any questions were welcome with open arms. This hobby should be fun and relaxing, but you guys sure know how to kill the fun. Have a good one.
                  Hey Pal,
                  He's a great guy believe it or not, thise of us who have aged here have battle scars from people who have come on here just to push buttons.

                  This forum is extremely technical, to a fault even. There is a careful balance between the science, the art, and flat-out tomfoolery. Toole points this out when he says "not everything meaningful is measurable and not everything measurable is meaningful", as does Collims when he states "when all esle fails, trust yourears", even Dickenson states that loudspeakers are a complex almagum of infinate variables and it is the combination of all that which ultimately detirmines a loudspeakers sound.

                  Capacitors, particularly in tweeter circuits, can color the sound quite a bit.

                  In good pratice, it is best to detirmine WHY this is. Sometimes, there is not a lot of good, solid evidence, however that does not mean there is not an effect, it just means no one has pined down the right reason yet...Or in many cases, real explinations are ignored because it suits bias better.

                  That said, have fun. Try different caps and if its meaningful to you, thats great! Youare on a journey, or... You can prove yourself wrong. Either way don't forget its about the music, and whe ln you see someone who has been here since 2009, has countless builds, and makes what seems like an off-putting statement...Assume first there is a good reason!
                  .

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I don't think PWR RYD (Craig) was accusing you of trolling, only that the thread might attract a troll or two, but that's just my opinion, just like there will be a variety of opinions on sonic effects from different brands and types of crossover components.
                    Paul

                    Originally posted by 40_C_Major View Post

                    It does? It's not meant to be. I'm not exactly sure why you think this. But, if you say this because you think arguments will flare up because of differing opinions about caps then can you please point to a diy site where ADULTS hang out. Geez, can't I ask a simple question about a simple electrical component without people jumping to conclusions? I only asked about caps because I'm trying to gain knowledge from people with more experience than me. I have just measured and designed my first ever (from the ground up) system, and was going to order the x-over parts for it. But before I ordered I wanted some experienced opinions about caps so I could determine which direction to go in. I guess asking honest questions and trying to learn is a no-no here. Thank you to the polite people that responded. And to PWR RYD, if you honestly think I'm just being a troll or something you have no need to worry or respond....I won't be back. This is only the second time I've asked a question on this board (the first one was asking advice about a x-over I designed using someone else's measurements), both times I've been treated like $hit. I use to read this board a lot many many years ago. It was a friendly place, where newbs and any questions were welcome with open arms. This hobby should be fun and relaxing, but you guys sure know how to kill the fun. Have a good one.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thank you 40 for defending yourself. As Mike Z. pointed out there are the trolls who enjoy starting flame wars. They come on with a basic question that eventually leads down a rabbit hole. AE's brief comment points out a huge anti-lytic bias that exists on speaker forums. They have their place and also contribute to overall sound. I challenge any crossover upgrader who replaces the lytics in a classic Snell 2-way crossover with PP film types and maintains the original voicing. Not going to happen.
                      "Wet" Lytics like those used in loudspeaker crossovers have a bad wrap because they have a limited life cycle compared to film types simply because their electrolyte has a chemical make up that ages, thus changing the cap's original key specifications. That life cycle is quite long though, much like foam surrounds. In the range of 15 to 20 years.
                      Live in Southern N.E.? check out the CT Audio Society web site.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        "bad wrap", good one.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by djg View Post
                          "bad wrap", good one.
                          Is it anything like Rap music? It's all bad to me!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 40_C_Major View Post
                            Subjectively speaking only...which is more important to YOU? Do you prefer the close 1% tolerance that can be achieved in metalized polypropylene caps, or the "purer" signal that film & foil caps claim to achieve, forgiving their 5-10% tolerance? Or do you think electrolytics are just fine? Remember, I'm just asking about the high pass (tweeter) section of your x-overs.

                            Forget about any measurements, this is strictly a subjective question. What do your ears tell you?

                            My instincts tell me (since we're dealing with a stereo signal) that a close as possible tolerance is probably the most important factor. Your thoughts?
                            When it comes to electronic components, I prefer one percent everything.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hard to answer a question like this, its too simplistic. Level of build, drivers, crossover skills.. Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X