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Issue with Bubinga veneer and Wipe-on Poly...

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  • scottvalentin
    replied
    Tom those are looking really great!

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  • gdmoore28
    replied
    Tom,
    I don't know how this applies in your specific finishing question, but because I'm doing a wipe on oil finish for the first time (detailed in another thread) I've been reading the manufacturer's web sites for recommendations. If I remember correctly, both the MinWax and Watco sites recommend following the final applications of poly with a light coat or two of aerosol spray can poly specifically for filling the very small imperfections that remain after wipe on/sanding operations.
    GeeDeeEmm

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  • Paul K.
    replied
    I forgot to say I also orient the panels horizontally level for brush-on poly, but find it just as useful for wipe-on poly (I HATE runs and take no chances!). One more thing I've learned, which may or may not apply to Bubinga, is that the very first coat of poly takes a lot longer to completely dry, and I assume due to the oils in the wood. When I allow that extra drying time, I have no problems with the following coats and they dry much quicker.
    Paul

    Originally posted by tomzarbo View Post
    Paul,
    I was actually referring to the brush-on poly... I always get runs with that... part of the reason I almost never use it. I don't seem to have issues with rub-on so much. I must put very thin coats on.
    I was wondering if you laid your panels out horizontally; your finishes always seem so perfectly even. I've done that before with brush-on to avoid drips, but I don't think I've used that technique for rub-on.

    I sanded out the runs I found and scuffed, then re-brushed another coat on, trying to keep it as thin as possible. It looks pretty good. I'll probably follow it up with a coat of rub-on as suggested.



    TomZ

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  • tomzarbo
    replied
    Originally posted by skatz View Post
    Tom
    I went to Flexner: Understanding Wood Finishing, and looked into this. There is a section on oily woods and bubinga is mentioned.
    Basically he says that it is the natural oils in the wood that get into and mess up the finish, either by retarding/preventing curing of the finish, or interfering with bonding of the finish to substrate.
    His cure is to first wipe the raw wood down with naptha or lacquer thinner to remove the surface oils ( and the problem) , then applying the finish quickly before the oils have a chance to seep back to the surface.
    For finishes where protection is not so important (loudspeakers?) he likes a wax finish. Where more protection is needed, he likes an oil/varnish blend, or wipe-on varnish.
    ​There is a lot of discussion in the book about these various types, and of how these are labeled versus what the truth of the contents is, but it's too lengthy for me to quote.
    I know this is too late to help you this time, but maybe on your next try. Glad the brush on poly helped. I look forward to seeing these!
    Thanks a lot Skatz for digging into this for me, and all of us really...

    I read on online forums something similar... but there was some conflicting information... I guess you can't always trust forums.
    But wiping the wood with lacquer thinner to remove oils before applying poly was one of the things that someone suggested. I meant to wipe the cabinets down with paint thinner before applying the first coat of brush on poly, but forgot. I had the thinner on the table right there too. Oh well. I'll hit the cabs with some thinner before applying the last coat of wipe-on poly later today.

    I thought of wax as a finish, and my father suggested it as well... but I was worried about the chance of lighter colored flecks of the wax getting into the grainy areas without getting 'rubbed into' the surface of the wood. I think wood wax probably wouldn't do that, though.

    You know, the speaker on the cover of the sales flyer following last year's MWAF was (I think) finished with just a type of wax or rubbing oil. I was talking with the builder (can't remember his name...darned brain!) and he was explaining it to me after the competition back at PE headquarters. It was not too difficult, but the results were stunning.

    Thanks again sir for relaying this information.

    I have enough bubinga from this, as well as some gifted from another forum member that I'll need to use this information again soon enough!

    TomZ

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  • skatz
    replied
    Tom
    I went to Flexner: Understanding Wood Finishing, and looked into this. There is a section on oily woods and bubinga is mentioned.
    Basically he says that it is the natural oils in the wood that get into and mess up the finish, either by retarding/preventing curing of the finish, or interfering with bonding of the finish to substrate.
    His cure is to first wipe the raw wood down with naptha or lacquer thinner to remove the surface oils ( and the problem) , then applying the finish quickly before the oils have a chance to seep back to the surface.
    For finishes where protection is not so important (loudspeakers?) he likes a wax finish. Where more protection is needed, he likes an oil/varnish blend, or wipe-on varnish.
    ​There is a lot of discussion in the book about these various types, and of how these are labeled versus what the truth of the contents is, but it's too lengthy for me to quote.
    I know this is too late to help you this time, but maybe on your next try. Glad the brush on poly helped. I look forward to seeing these!

    Leave a comment:


  • AlexRivera
    replied
    Looking Great!!

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  • tomzarbo
    replied
    Paul,
    I was actually referring to the brush-on poly... I always get runs with that... part of the reason I almost never use it. I don't seem to have issues with rub-on so much. I must put very thin coats on.
    I was wondering if you laid your panels out horizontally; your finishes always seem so perfectly even. I've done that before with brush-on to avoid drips, but I don't think I've used that technique for rub-on.

    I sanded out the runs I found and scuffed, then re-brushed another coat on, trying to keep it as thin as possible. It looks pretty good. I'll probably follow it up with a coat of rub-on as suggested.



    TomZ

    Leave a comment:


  • Paul K.
    replied
    Yep, wipe-on poly is really thin and runs easily, so what I do is apply it to only one panel at a time and doing whatever is necessary first to make sure that panel is absolutely horizontal and level so no running can occur. This obviously takes time because you can do only one panel at a time, but the wipe-on poly dries pretty quickly, and you can come back 2-3 hours later to turn the cabinet 90 degrees and wipe on poly to an adjacent panel. Still, doing a whole cabinet this way will take multiple passes and at least 2 days and you don't have much time left.
    Paul

    Originally posted by tomzarbo View Post
    Looks like the brush-on poly did the trick.

    I had intended to use BLO or something similar to grain-fill beforehand, but ran out of time. Now I have a mostly smooth finish except for some areas that ran. I'll wrap some 220 grit around a paint stirrer and knock those down this morning after breakfast, then contemplate either another LIGHT brush on coat or a few more wipe-on coats. There are a few areas that I didn't get smooth yet so maybe more brush-on is in order.

    I have to be careful with it, it runs so easily. The tops of the bases though are really nice looking. The poly formed a type of meniscus on the top that stayed in place as it dried, so those, along with the speaker tops look really smooth and shiny. I think shiny works with this type of veneer. That's what I was shooting for, anyway.

    Squid, good idea BTW on wet sanding with the poly, I'll give that a try on some of my scraps since I've already brushed some on. Clever, I never would have thought of doing that.

    and yes Squid, I'll try to represent for the Garden State!

    Anyway, thanks guys for the great suggestions... as always, I've learned a few things!

    TomZ

    Leave a comment:


  • tomzarbo
    replied
    Looks like the brush-on poly did the trick.

    I had intended to use BLO or something similar to grain-fill beforehand, but ran out of time. Now I have a mostly smooth finish except for some areas that ran. I'll wrap some 220 grit around a paint stirrer and knock those down this morning after breakfast, then contemplate either another LIGHT brush on coat or a few more wipe-on coats. There are a few areas that I didn't get smooth yet so maybe more brush-on is in order.

    I have to be careful with it, it runs so easily. The tops of the bases though are really nice looking. The poly formed a type of meniscus on the top that stayed in place as it dried, so those, along with the speaker tops look really smooth and shiny. I think shiny works with this type of veneer. That's what I was shooting for, anyway.

    Squid, good idea BTW on wet sanding with the poly, I'll give that a try on some of my scraps since I've already brushed some on. Clever, I never would have thought of doing that.

    and yes Squid, I'll try to represent for the Garden State!

    Anyway, thanks guys for the great suggestions... as always, I've learned a few things!

    TomZ

    Leave a comment:


  • Squidspeak
    replied
    Tom, something I did while using Watco was to wet sand with a scothbrite pad using the oil as my "wet" , it worked well to fill the tough areas and you are
    ​killing 2 birds with one stone. What ever you sand down fills the pores pretty good and you are applying another coat. You may have to work a smaller area
    ​with the wipe on poly but it should yield the same result. Flood the surface, wet sand and wipe dry. Good luck at MWAF, go N.J.!

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  • tomzarbo
    replied
    I just finished putting a coat of brush-on poly onto the cabinets and they look a lot better, but I won't know for sure until it dries. I'll just wait until tomorrow morning to have a look-see.

    Hoping for the best. I figure I may have to put another brush on coat in the morning after a scuff... then maybe a few coats of rub-on in the evening to finish up. Fingers crossed.

    Thanks for the great ideas guys,
    Finishing is really a weak spot for me.

    TomZ

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  • Paul K.
    replied

    Thanks for the compliments, Tom and Kevin, and you'll be seeing the results of what I described on the Brioso speakers I'm bringing to MWAF, the same speakers I had at this year's InDIYana. For those who heard them in April, I tweaked the crossover since and hope you like the results.
    Paul
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  • Kevin K.
    replied
    +1 on Pauls finish technique. His cabinets always have an elegant look to them. Not to glossy, not to flat, and the wood looks real/natural like it should. Looking forward to seeing what he brings this year.

    Go for it Tom. There's always the option of air fresheners for the mini-van.

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  • tomzarbo
    replied
    I'm considering having a stab at this after all. I have a few days to play with. I'm leaving early Tuesday morning, but I think that's enough time to get this done without stinking up the minivan too much on the way.

    Paul, I've always admired the quality and evenness of your speakers' finishes. I think John H mentioned using brush-on before wipe-on as well. Let me head to the Home Depot to pick some up.

    TomZ

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  • Paul K.
    replied
    I always apply 2 brush-on coats of oil-based satin poly first, sanding lightly after each, then usually apply 3 wipe-on coats with "rubbing" out after each with "0000" synthetic (plastic) "steel wool". However, I don't try to completely fill the grain because I like a bit of it to remain so it looks and feels natural rather than like plastic.
    Paul

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