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The new MiniDSP 2x4HD has made all my skills obsolete. How about yours?

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  • The new MiniDSP 2x4HD has made all my skills obsolete. How about yours?

    I've been sort of away for some time, but have been reading this board on and off. I recently saw the MiniDSP 2x4HD and thought it'd be a nice upgrade to my old MiniDSP. How wrong I was. This is not an update. This is a whole different world. REW and rePhase are infinitely more powerful than LSPCad could ever be. I feel as if everything I learned is now useless. Sure, passive crossover design is an art, a science, a truly beautiful thing to know. But I feel as if there's no point anymore. I can't build the filters rePhase can. Nobody can. Nobody can do a crossover with a linear phase from 20Hz to 20 KHz, and with a perfectly flat frequency response. Nobody can do a crossover that sums up perfectly well at any order. Nobody can escape the parasitic losses of a passive crossover. Oh, but rePhase can do it, in seconds. I should be ecstatic. I used it to cross-over my passive-active OB design (documented somewhere here), and it linearized the phase and killed all FR anomalies. I can dial 4 house curves or a flat frequency response. I can use USB, TosLink or Coaxial inputs. I can stop using a preamp, since now the MiniDSP can work as one. I have such a high degree of perfection at my fingertips, I can't feel but sad at how obsolete my skills became. :(
    Line Array: IDS-25 Clone, FE-83.
    2-2.5 Way:
    Zaph Audio's winning entry: ZA5+SB29. - Microliths: RS125+RS28. - Small Bangs: TB W4-1658SB+SEAS 27TBFC/G. - Monoliths: Peerless 830884+SEAS 27TBFC/G.
    3-3.5 Way:Miniliths: SEAS P21/CA21REX+Neo8 PDR+Neo3 PDR. - Megaliths: 2xDayton RS270+2xT-B W4-1337SB+SB29. - ZDT3.5 +: 2xDayton RS180+Dayton RS52+Vifa DQ25. Reflexos: OB 4xDayton RS150 + Neo3 PDR.

  • #2
    So you crossed over to the Dark (active) side...

    And the mini DSP is not half as powerful as the other DSP tools out there, but it is the most affordable and accessible one!

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    • #3
      Originally posted by fjhuerta View Post
      I can use USB, TosLink or Coaxial inputs. :(
      The minihd has a digital USB input? I thought it was there only for programming the software same as the old minidsp?

      And I'm glad somebody else is using REW.
      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...khanspires-but
      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...pico-neo-build
      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...ensation-build

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      • #4
        The new 2x4 HD has digital inputs and support for FIR filters, why it's twice as expensive than a regular 2x4 miniDSP.

        Comment


        • #5
          I started using a JL TWK88 in my truck with a pair of scan speak illuminator tweeters and SB acoustics woofers. I don't know anything about passive crossover design, but that DSP along with a Umik1 and REW allowed me to get up and running quickly. The system sounds good now, but I have tons to learn and know that it will only get better from here. I think you might be right, this is the future. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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          • #6
            Originally posted by ani_101 View Post
            So you crossed over to the Dark (active) side...

            And the mini DSP is not half as powerful as the other DSP tools out there, but it is the most affordable and accessible one!

            One thing is for sure, my background on passive designs shure came handy. I did notice what you are mentioning. I'm already figuring out I need more taps for my filters. 1024 per channel are nearly enough - but not quite.

            Still, this is the swiss army knife of DSP tools. You can whip out not a decent speaker, but an amazing, world class one with a bit of time and knowledge. I'm simply blown away at how powerful this thing is, and very, very glad I bought it. Best $200 I've ever spent on this hobby. This is a game changer.
            Line Array: IDS-25 Clone, FE-83.
            2-2.5 Way:
            Zaph Audio's winning entry: ZA5+SB29. - Microliths: RS125+RS28. - Small Bangs: TB W4-1658SB+SEAS 27TBFC/G. - Monoliths: Peerless 830884+SEAS 27TBFC/G.
            3-3.5 Way:Miniliths: SEAS P21/CA21REX+Neo8 PDR+Neo3 PDR. - Megaliths: 2xDayton RS270+2xT-B W4-1337SB+SB29. - ZDT3.5 +: 2xDayton RS180+Dayton RS52+Vifa DQ25. Reflexos: OB 4xDayton RS150 + Neo3 PDR.

            Comment


            • #7
              Don't feel so bad Javier.

              Charles Sidney Burwell once said, whilst addressing a group of students:

              Half of what we are going to teach you is wrong, and half of it is right. Our problem is that we don't know which half is which.

              Every so often, we all have to sharpen the saw. I learn a lot from others, by teaching others, and always not afraid to change mind when the facts change.

              I say this as a reflection. In 1997 my friends and I were coding software for signal processing, on our 10kg desktop computers, CRT monitors, hacking our way through expensive multichannel sound cards, borrowing our parents home theatre AV (multichannel) amplifiers. In our bedroom, in our spare time.

              We all felt that sooner or later, the market would have powerful ASICs, smaller than the palm of our hands, and lighter than a book, and could do everything we were attempting to do. Class A/B amplifiers, passive components, big transformers and heatsinks would be the way of the dodo...

              I have ideas about writing something like a DSP Design Guide, to help the next generation of young loudspeaker designers move forward in the new direction. Most texts still cover passive components basics etc. Have you seen this done before?

              Comment


              • #8
                I did my first MiniDSP setup with a pair of the buyout SVS/Peerless woofers and SB26STAC tweeters, and after just a quick REW measurement, eq set, and then MiniDSP crossover playing, the speakers sounded really quite good. I had to ask my wife if they sounded good to her (my hearing is really bad and I wear hearing aids) just to make sure - I felt like it couldn't be that quick to get something sounding good!

                I don't quite understand what the FIR filters do (MiniDSP only can't do those?) Anyone care to expound a bit on the benefits of the HD other than the digital inputs (which was my assumption)?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hello Scott,

                  I feel that this article sums up what the FIR filters can do:
                  http://www.prosoundweb.com/channels/...g_fir_filters/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    This looks like a practical solution for using a digital source connecting via the MiniDSP 2X4HD to a few upgraded Dynaco tube amps, and eliminating a preamplifier. Any thoughts or suggestions?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by tktran View Post
                      Hello Scott,

                      I feel that this article sums up what the FIR filters can do:
                      http://www.prosoundweb.com/channels/...g_fir_filters/
                      Thanks for the link, I will do some reading up!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Passive crossover design was one of the main impediments in trying to get people into the hobby. It will continue to be a useful skill for people trying to make more traditional and affordable systems, but I am happy that tools like the minidsp are so cheap and easy to use. They allow us to focus on system design and measurement technique.

                        I feel like I've only just learned how to do a decent passive design - I can do a pretty good 2 way no problem now - but my next project, a 4 way dipole with sealed sub bass, will be active all the way. I am also confident it will sound better than any passive design I could have made (or bought)...and I'm using the old minidsp platform.

                        We should remind ourselves, however, that although dsp solutions are great for enthusiasts, and maybe auto installations, they are still a bit much for normal people. I had to make my own 8 conductor speaker wires, and 8 channels of amplification is a lot to put on your bookshelf next to your cookbooks and picture frames. Any speaker I make for a friend or family member will probably be passive for a long time coming.

                        Modern woofers allowed us to have small boxes with bass. New midranges allowed us to have vanishingly low midrange distortion. New tweeters allowed lower crossover points and better directivity. DSP is going to do as much if not more for sound fidelity in our homes. I'll take that over some fancy capacitors any day.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by scottvalentin View Post
                          ...I don't quite understand what the FIR filters do ..
                          Additional
                          https://dspguru.com/dsp/faqs/fir/basics/
                          A lot of useful info here.
                          https://dspguru.com/

                          Originally posted by KEtheredge87
                          ,,, I really like what the MiniDSP offers me in terms of capability.,,,.
                          The ability to have preset template configurations allows for easy, quick multi-use setups ( ie different hardware in different locations )
                          "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
                          "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by civit View Post
                            Passive crossover design was one of the main impediments in trying to get people into the hobby. It will continue to be a useful skill for people trying to make more traditional and affordable systems, but I am happy that tools like the minidsp are so cheap and easy to use. They allow us to focus on system design and measurement technique.

                            .
                            If you see the projects in the other thread about the Transducer class at Michigan Tech, most of the projects are active based, where they focus more on the measurements and other aspects and then use DSP to crossover and tune the speaker.

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                            • #15
                              FIR filters provide something that IIR filters and passive crossovers can't, but they also can cause you to lose audio sync with your TV due to the added delays.

                              As far as implementing a DSP crossover, the acoustic principals are still the same, the electrical circuit is only part of the equation when designing a passive filter. DSP simply provides a much more convenient means of implementation for the DIYer than using passive components. Commercially for home audio, DSP is a tough sell beyond boombox/bluetooth music devices. The HT market is used to buying their amps with the receiver, not with the speaker, so an active speaker with a DSP plate amp on the back increases cost, and most consumers with room correction DSP functions built in to their receiver will likely say "what's the point".
                              Don't waste your money on a new set of speakers, you get more mileage from a cheap pair of sneakers. Next phase, new wave, dance craze, anyways it's still rock and roll to me!

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